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[KenAndJulie]

What you are describing is social apartheid.(Do not forget that those lesser human beings who chose not to dress formally have paid at least as much if not more for the privilege of sharing the same ship). I am all for maintaining standards in all walks of life,but insisting that fellow passengers who are not "correctly attired" should be confined to certain areas of the ship is beyond the pale on what is supposed to be a HOLIDAY!!!!!!

Dai has already answered the first part of your post.

 

There is however another argument that can be used ... if I turned up to a land based black-tie event in my best chav gear, is it social apartheid to be denied entry? Should all bars, restaurants, clubs and social gatherings do away with 'required dress codes' because I want to turn up in whatever I feel like ... would you still feel it acceptable for me to attend formal events or maybe run a childrens playgroup in a high-lighter yellow man thong (or nude) if I wanted to ... where is the line you draw.

 

BTW taking your argument to the extreme means that one could easily argue that anywhere a uniform is required (e.g. police, fire, army, tescos etc.) is a form of social apartheid.

 

Would you also support the idea that on non formal nights, anyone dressed formally should be restricted to one bar, one restaurant and not allowed into the show bars, I think not.

Actually I have on several occasions in the distant and far past used this extact counter-argument on several different web sites ... since one could equally argue that over dressed people spoil the ambience of a smart-casual evening. However the logical answer is to refer to the dress code standards which point out that they detail a 'minimum' level - therefore someone being overdressed meets the required dress code standard.

[geecee1]

 

Nice of you to get personal. You clearly have your humour chip removed. At the time I was saying that I had made theses comments months ago.

 

However, with reference to your post;_

 

I am all for maintaining standards in all walks of life,but insisting that fellow passengers who are not "correctly attired" should be confined to certain areas of the ship is beyond the pale on what is supposed to be a HOLIDAY!!!!!!

 

At last you have got it, we are talking about our HOLIDAY. We have made the decision to choose a cruise which has a formal element and one which the cruise line insists that everyone complies with. WE have picked that type of HOLIDAY as have the other P&O cruisers. So you are now telling us we are wrong, we cannot do that???????

 

You pick your HOLIDAY and we will pick ours. But please do not try to change ours just because it does not suit you.

 

 

:):)Happy Cruising:):)

 

 

 

 

:cool:

 

Dai

I am not trying to change anyone's holiday and I may choose Ventura for a Caribbean cruise in 2011 and ignore the two formal nights. Recent cruisers report that a large percentage of passengers chose not to dress up on formal nights in her recent Caribbean cruise.

I am quite happy for people to dress formally every night if that is their wish. What I object to is the attitude of some people on this forum that I am spoiling their holiday if I choose to dress smart casual on formal nights.

Some even imply that we should be kept out of sight.

[geecee1]

Dai has already answered the first part of your post.

 

There is however another argument that can be used ... if I turned up to a land based black-tie event in my best chav gear, is it social apartheid to be denied entry? Should all bars, restaurants, clubs and social gatherings do away with 'required dress codes' because I want to turn up in whatever I feel like ... would you still feel it acceptable for me to attend formal events or maybe run a childrens playgroup in a high-lighter yellow man thong (or nude) if I wanted to ... where is the line you draw.

 

BTW taking your argument to the extreme means that one could easily argue that anywhere a uniform is required (e.g. police, fire, army, tescos etc.) is a form of social apartheid.

 

Actually I have on several occasions in the distant and far past used this extact counter-argument on several different web sites ... since one could equally argue that over dressed people spoil the ambience of a smart-casual evening. However the logical answer is to refer to the dress code standards which point out that they detail a 'minimum' level - therefore someone being overdressed meets the required dress code standard.

 

Ken , see my post below. Dai, accuses me of having a humour bypass( perhaps he has not noticed I am from Yorkshire!) I am happy for the ship I am on to have a "dress code" on formal nights, but I cannot understand why it should be ship-wide on a vessel as large as, say, Ventura.

My dislike of formal/dress codes probably stems from my 53 years as golfer, where my chosen sport was almost strangled to death in the 1950's by the dinosaurs that ran golf clubs.

Thankfully, the relaxing of the more suffocating dress codes and all that went with them resulted in an unprecedented explosion of growth in the game without affecting the spirit in whch the game is played.

Could the same happen to cruising, which I think has tremendous growth potential, particlarly in the UK.

[Johnthed0g]

I don't think people ignore formal nights to any great degree, maybe 5% but that would be the maximum. The idea of a shipwide dress code is because it is the theme for the night...not a punishment, the vast majority join in.

[KenAndJulie]

Ken , see my post below. Dai, accuses me of having a humour bypass( perhaps he has not noticed I am from Yorkshire!) I am happy for the ship I am on to have a "dress code" on formal nights, but I cannot understand why it should be ship-wide on a vessel as large as, say, Ventura.

My dislike of formal/dress codes probably stems from my 53 years as golfer, where my chosen sport was almost strangled to death in the 1950's by the dinosaurs that ran golf clubs.

That made me smile because I was once denied entry to a golf club because I was not correctly attired. The reason I was there was to fix their computer and the VP was very upset when it was not fixed at the time I said it would be ... he even suggested I should don a suit-and-tie so I could get in (like that was going to happen - especially since I knew I was going to have to crawl around a very dirty floor to rewire some cabling).

 

Thankfully, the relaxing of the more suffocating dress codes and all that went with them resulted in an unprecedented explosion of growth in the game without affecting the spirit in whch the game is played.

That is fine and the particular club(s) have relaxed the dress code (usually with diminished but still stated rules which they expect their members to adhere to ... and enforce). I work for a progressive and modern company that does not enforce a dress code of suit-and-tie so I really am a jeans person (I have never understood the concept of a tie).

 

However on a few nights on some cruise lines there is a dress code which, like anywhere that has a dress code, should be adhered and enforced if individuals wish to gain access to the facilities.

 

Could the same happen to cruising, which I think has tremendous growth potential, particlarly in the UK.

Are things changing ... yes ... we live in an evolving world however if I am promised a formal night, I expect to be provided with a formal night. Even a small number of people not adhering to the dress code diminishes the atmosphere of that evening. It is no different to a black-tie event on land, nobody would/should expect to receive entry if not suitably attired.

[Stitchman]

I never feel over dressed !

[geecee1]

I don't think people ignore formal nights to any great degree, maybe 5% but that would be the maximum. The idea of a shipwide dress code is because it is the theme for the night...not a punishment, the vast majority join in.

 

Maybe I misunderstood what Matty Barlow said in his recent Ventura review, but as I am an old gimmer with no sense of humour(see Dai above),may be I'll be forgiven.

If what you say is true that rules out P&O for me.

However, the rebel in me might just enjoy getting up the noses of the the glitterati.

[geecee1]

That made me smile because I was once denied entry to a golf club because I was not correctly attired. The reason I was there was to fix their computer and the VP was very upset when it was not fixed at the time I said it would be ... he even suggested I should don a suit-and-tie so I could get in (like that was going to happen - especially since I knew I was going to have to crawl around a very dirty floor to rewire some cabling).

 

That is fine and the particular club(s) have relaxed the dress code (usually with diminished but still stated rules which they expect their members to adhere to ... and enforce). I work for a progressive and modern company that does not enforce a dress code of suit-and-tie so I really am a jeans person (I have never understood the concept of a tie).

 

However on a few nights on some cruise lines there is a dress code which, like anywhere that has a dress code, should be adhered and enforced if individuals wish to gain access to the facilities.

 

Are things changing ... yes ... we live in an evolving world however if I am promised a formal night, I expect to be provided with a formal night. Even a small number of people not adhering to the dress code diminishes the atmosphere of that evening. It is no different to a black-tie event on land, nobody would/should expect to receive entry if not suitably attired.

Loved the golf club story, I have many such anecdotes myself.

 

 

Sorry, but a land-based black tie event, such as Golf Union Dinner, is a million miles away from a holiday, for me at any rate.

I am quoting a recent poster on the OV forum ,a professional gentleman like myself, who, said "Hell will freeze over before I take a suit on holiday".

[Stitchman]

Maybe I misunderstood what Matty Barlow said in his recent Ventura review, but as I am an old gimmer with no sense of humour(see Dai above),may be I'll be forgiven.

If what you say is true that rules out P&O for me.

However, the rebel in me might just enjoy getting up the noses of the the glitterati.

You don't have to be a rebel ........ just join in and enjoy the moment.

But at the end of the day you will come around .... and don't knock it until you've tried it !!

 

Stitch ( nearly there !!) xx

[geecee1]

You don't have to be a rebel ........ just join in and enjoy the moment.

But at the end of the day you will come around .... and don't knock it until you've tried it !!

 

Stitch ( nearly there !!) xx

 

Thanks for the invite but I will decline if you do not mind.

I have been to too many land-based Dinner Dances(YAWN)

to know that they are not for me.

Despite my 67 years,I prefer a good old bop or dare I use a modern phrase like "throw some shapes" and I think you will agree that a DJ or similar is not appropriate attire for such activity.

[Stitchman]

Thanks for the invite but I will decline if you do not mind.

I have been to too many land-based Dinner Dances(YAWN)

to know that they are not for me.

Despite my 67 years,I prefer a good old bop or dare I use a modern phrase like "throw some shapes" and I think you will agree that a DJ or similar is not appropriate attire for such activity.

Well I don't go to the T dances and the night club rocks even with DJ's on ....... Well it does for me and many others !!

 

Don't pass up the invite you'll hate getting bitten at twilight and you'll miss the air con too .

 

Stitch x

[geecee1]

You don't have to be a rebel ........ just join in and enjoy the moment.

But at the end of the day you will come around .... and don't knock it until you've tried it !!

 

Stitch ( nearly there !!) xx

 

See you are going on Ventura in Jan. Would appreciate your views as we are considering her next year but being a bit of a part animal(president-elect of The Old Men Behaving Badly Party) I wonder if she is for me.

I have read conflicting views as to the adherence to dress code on formal nights and would welcome your in-put.

p.s Basildon brings back many happy memories of hours spent in Ford at Dunton, followed by the delights of various hotels in the area!!!

[Stitchman]

You don't have to be a rebel ........ just join in and enjoy the moment.

But at the end of the day you will come around .... and don't knock it until you've tried it !!

 

Stitch ( nearly there !!) xx

 

See you are going on Ventura in Jan. Would appreciate your views as we are considering her next year but being a bit of a part animal(president-elect of The Old Men Behaving Badly Party) I wonder if she is for me.

I have read conflicting views as to the adherence to dress code on formal nights and would welcome your in-put.

p.s Basildon brings back many happy memories of hours spent in Ford at Dunton, followed by the delights of various hotels in the area!!!

Thats what i'm talking about ....... This is the Geecee1 I want to share a cruise with !!

I'll give you a full and very frank review on the ship etc . But by the sounds of it Cattalina island might be off the menu now (Haiti ...... terrible shame).

If you've read any of my reviews on other ships you will find out that I enjoy myself everytime no matter what (mind you not that many really as i only discovered CC a few years ago). To be honest you sound like that sort of chap too. So I hope my review will entice you back but do yourself a favour and stay away from island escape. We thought it'd be like OV but it didn't come anywhere near as good in any aspect. But at the end of the day one man's meat is another man's poison . One salt water pool for 1500 people is a disaster too !!

 

Stitch x

[Norfolk Brit]

See you are going on Ventura in Jan. Would appreciate your views as we are considering her next year but being a bit of a part animal

 

Which part? Surely one either is, or is not, an animal.

 

Sir Martin (all animal)

[Johnthed0g]

When I said that 95% observed the dress code that was true, BUT nobody minds if someone dines in the buffet dressed in smart casual, this seems to be an unofficial rule. We are talking about twice a week, might make a nice change.

[Stitchman]

Which part? Surely one either is, or is not, an animal.

 

Sir Martin (all animal)

Sir Martin

I've just noticed from your list that you've been on the Marco Polo. We would love to try it but haven't ever booked it as there doesn't seem to be a casino. I'm not a hard nosed gambler but the casino is a big part of my cruise nightlife, so could you clarify if it has one please.

Ta

 

Stitch ( also all animal so she says! ) x

[geecee1]

Which part? Surely one either is, or is not, an animal.

 

Sir Martin (all animal)

 

Sorry, meant party animal, but , perhaps part animal would be a truer description i.e part Yahoo, part human being.

[geecee1]

Thats what i'm talking about ....... This is the Geecee1 I want to share a cruise with !!

I'll give you a full and very frank review on the ship etc . But by the sounds of it Cattalina island might be off the menu now (Haiti ...... terrible shame).

If you've read any of my reviews on other ships you will find out that I enjoy myself everytime no matter what (mind you not that many really as i only discovered CC a few years ago). To be honest you sound like that sort of chap too. So I hope my review will entice you back but do yourself a favour and stay away from island escape. We thought it'd be like OV but it didn't come anywhere near as good in any aspect. But at the end of the day one man's meat is another man's poison . One salt water pool for 1500 people is a disaster too !!

 

Stitch x

 

Thanks for the advice re.Island Escape. The only Escape we are diong is Escape at The Gap in Barbados for two weeks. Johnthe dog tells me it is very lively, so I hope the old guy can stand the pace.

[geecee1]

When I said that 95% observed the dress code that was true, BUT nobody minds if someone dines in the buffet dressed in smart casual, this seems to be an unofficial rule. We are talking about twice a week, might make a nice change.

 

John, have just finished reading Capn Pugwash's Arcadia blog.Very amusing.

I can't wait to leave all the snow behind for a couple of weeks and sample the delights of Barbados, including SLG and Oistins Friday Fish Fry.

We have also arranged to meet some OV regulars in Boatyard Beach on the 27th(her port day) and visit our friends who are staying near Gibbs beach.

[Norfolk Brit]

Sir Martin

I've just noticed from your list that you've been on the Marco Polo. We would love to try it but haven't ever booked it as there doesn't seem to be a casino.

 

Stitch, the only vice I don't possess is gambling so I'm not sure - sorry: I didn't notice one, though. Do know that I loved MP, but it's quirky and I doubt it would suit everyone; having said that, when we went it was operated by Transocean and it's since changed hands (yet again), I believe, so things have probably changed.

 

Mary (staff to Sir Martin)

[Stitchman]

Thank you Mary x

 

Stitch x

[Johnthed0g]

John, have just finished reading Capn Pugwash's Arcadia blog.Very amusing.

I can't wait to leave all the snow behind for a couple of weeks and sample the delights of Barbados, including SLG and Oistins Friday Fish Fry.

We have also arranged to meet some OV regulars in Boatyard Beach on the 27th(her port day) and visit our friends who are staying near Gibbs beach.

Gibbes beach....to us is superb as it is completely natural, no facilities, no vendors, no music, no watersports. Subject to seasonal erosion though. Never been to Oistins, not my thing at all, but I quite like the sound of the Boatyard to a degree. I would consider looking at alternative hotels to EATG though.

[KenAndJulie]

Sorry, but a land-based black tie event, such as Golf Union Dinner, is a million miles away from a holiday, for me at any rate.

I have to disagree with you, a black-tie event is a black-tie event no matter where it is being held. As on land someone may not get access to their favourite bar/hotel/venue if such an event is being held ... and rightly so.

 

I am quoting a recent poster on the OV forum ,a professional gentleman like myself, who, said "Hell will freeze over before I take a suit on holiday".

That is their decision however I trust they are intelligent enough to accept that they may not have access to all facilities on formal nights if they are provided by their chosen cruise line.

 

It is sad reflection of modern society that so often we now see a 'I will do what I like and to hell with everybody else' attitude.

[MattyBarlow]

That is their decision however I trust they are intelligent enough to accept that they may not have access to all facilities on formal nights if they are provided by their chosen cruise line.

 

It is sad reflection of modern society that so often we now see a 'I will do what I like and to hell with everybody else' attitude.

 

 

Which comes back to the problem that Carnival have taken that choice away from UK.

[geecee1]

I have to disagree with you, a black-tie event is a black-tie event no matter where it is being held. As on land someone may not get access to their favourite bar/hotel/venue if such an event is being held ... and rightly so.

 

That is their decision however I trust they are intelligent enough to accept that they may not have access to all facilities on formal nights if they are provided by their chosen cruise line.

 

It is sad reflection of modern society that so often we now see a 'I will do what I like and to hell with everybody else' attitude.

 

Ken, the hotel argument is not valid. I have stayed in hotels(on business) where black tie events are being held and under no circumstances would I expect to be allowed access to the room/bar set aside for that event. I would, hoever, as a paying guest, expect to be able to use the rest of the facilities.

Similarly, on board ship, I, having paid money to use the facilities, would be aggrieved to find denied access to the great majority of them if the dress code was imposed shipwide, as many of your fellow posters seem to expect.

I think that is an even sadder reflection on modern society that the herd mentality should be imposed on a minority who wish to be different.

I have read on these forums/and met people on OV who have been treated as second class citizens by,albeit a minority, their fellow passengers on some P&O ships.

e.g.one mixed race lady who was made to feel very uncomfortable by her fellow diners on the first evening, but was not moved to another table for three nights. There is documented evidence on these forums of people choosing to dine in their cabins rather than risk being sneered at by a proportion of the P&O crowd.

Now that is a very sad reflection of our society.

I can almost hear some posters hitting the keyboard to state that" if you do not want to conform, don't join our club".

Well P&O,I am sure, will not turn down my membership application if I decide to go on Ventura next winter.