HAL considering going totally non-smoking?

[momofmeg]

The questions also include "Will you sail again with HAL" or something to that affect. So the surveys include the information on if people are being "lost" or "defecting" as some have said

 

Well Dutch, call me a dummy, but it had not occurred to me before reading this thread that former smoking Celebrity cruisers were defecting to HAL. I just thought it was the "luck of the draw" that there were so many more smokers this past cruise. My last cruise on HAL was on the Westerdam in April 2008.

 

As I previously stated in another post on this thread, it was not until this cruise that I had trouble with a neighbor that chain smoked on the balcony. Yes I have had smoking neighbors before, but they would take ten minutes perhaps to smoke, then would leave the balcony area smoke free, and so I could wait 10 minutes, and then step out and enjoy my balcony. I had the "live and let live" attitude, as previously my neighbors who smoked, were courteous to me. This time, I had a neighbor that was a chain smoker and so almost always our balcony was filled with smoke, it seemed this man never left his balcony.

I do believe that HAL is now attracting the hard core heavily addicted smokers, as I believe Celebrity cruisers who are moderate smokers would not defect.

 

So even though I said I would cruise HAL again and probably within 2 years, I now doubt that I will. I am sure I am not the only dummy that it had not occurred that Celebrity smokers were defecting to HAL. Others will come to this conclusion also, if they keep having "smoky" cruises.

 

Just think, Celebrity has only had this policy in effect for a little over a year. After HAL non smokers do 2 or 3 HAL cruises, and see this has become a problem EVERY cruise, and not just a one time fluke, they will defect, and they will also indicate this on their survey.

[fann1sh]

Regarding surveys, there may in future be a "feedback loop" effect:

 

higher % of cruisers on HAL are smokers...so surveys reflect "don't stop smoking"...so smoking continues in cabins and balconies...which attracts more smokers....which means even higher % of smokers...so surveys (etc.)

 

higher % of cruisers on X are non-smokers....any surveys reflect "don't allow any more smoking"....so - well, you get the idea.

 

If HAL can fill cabins and increase revenues by permitting smoking while other lines ban smoking...well, that would constitute a viable business model.

 

The fact it's not what I'd prefer is irrelevant.

[COLLEYBERRY]

 

If approx 20% of the cruising population smokes, and that 20% of a mere five cruise lines with restrictive policies gravitates to Hal (and why wouldn't they, simply ask their TA which cruise line tolerates smoking most)poof Hal ships sail full.

 

Maybe Hal is trying to corner the market ?

[sail7seas]

I've been saying that for months.

 

I mentioned earlier in this thread we heard a group on Westerdam in November call HAL "Ashtray of the Seas'. :(

 

 

 

[Sea King]

 

 

If HAL can fill cabins and increase revenues by permitting smoking while other lines ban smoking...well, that would constitute a viable business model.

 

 

working at a nuclear waste facility is also a viable business model.:rolleyes:

 

then again, wouldn't you agree that 2nd hand smoke is a "form of nuclear waste"

[COLLEYBERRY]

 

If all cruise lines were on the same page with smoking policies , would smokers really stop cruising.... they seem to have adapted to other restrictions(ie restaurants, bars, heck I remember when you could smoke in a movie theater) Why not cruising ,of that 20% how many would really give up the joys of cruising,if it had been such a source of pleasure for many years.

[momofmeg]

 

The fact it's not what I'd prefer is irrelevant.

 

I know I won't effect their decision. In 11 years of cruising I have cruised HAL 23 days, so I am hardly a loyal HAL customer. The other side of the coin, though is,since I am not a cruise line loyalist, I am not too bothered by going elsewhere either. I WILL miss the great food, so I will have to book more specialty restaurant meals on the other lines, I will also miss the beautiful decor of the HAL ships, but I will live I guess.

 

I do understand though this is upsetting for those nonsmokers who cruise HAL several times a year, and have been loyal customers for many years. They have a lot "invested" in HAL.

 

Fortunately I don't have a lot invested, so I do not mind taking take Ditzy Dallas Di's advice, and simply not booking HAL in the future. (Bye-bye Maasdam Quebec cruise) I do realize HAL will not care as they will still be raking in the dollars from smokers, but I also know I will be happier elsewhere. My hubby and I love balconies too much to give them up because they are now "smoker's staterooms."

[fann1sh]

working at a nuclear waste facility is also a viable business model.:rolleyes:

 

then again, wouldn't you agree that 2nd hand smoke is a "form of nuclear waste"

 

No.

 

Smoke (all smoke, any particulate matter in air) is severely toxic to me. This issue is of vital importance to where and how I cruise.

 

That doesn't change the fact I prefer a more neutral, civil tone.

[usha]

On my cruise last June I did not receive anything to fill out about smoking. This May I'll make sure to find something to fill out about smoking. Maybe they find the smokers and don't want them to answer the questions. LOL

I've never received the smoking survey to fill out.:(

I'm a "breather".:cool:

[Ya Ya Cruiser]

I posted a few pages back that my DH has a chronic lung condition and that is why we are concerned about smoking on ships. I wrote to HAL about my concerns as we were contemplating cancelling our cruise with them because of smoking. I thought for general interest sake I would post part of their response to me.

 

"Concerning smoking on board, over the years, we have attempted to move with current trends, and our present policy is to allow guests to smoke in their staterooms and balconies, and to designate certain areas both indoors and on decks for cigarette smoking, while cigar and pipe smoking is restricted to outside decks only. We do prohibit smoking in all dining areas, corridors and in most public rooms. This is an attempt to balance the needs of both nonsmoking guests and our smoking guests. However, none of our policies is permanent, save for our commitment to guest satisfaction, and as the attitudes toward smoking continue to change, we will revisit this policy. Guest input on any cruise element is welcome; we do note comments and they have an influence on future policy.

 

While we do allow cigarette smoking in our staterooms, we have procedures in place to ensure that all staterooms are free of odors and allergens left behind by guests who use tobacco products. Our Cabin Stewards identify smoker staterooms and report the stateroom numbers to the Stateroom Inspector. On a daily basis, the Steward will sprinkle carpet odour counteractant powder prior to vacuuming as well as spraying all soft goods and upholstery with deodorizer. Finally, an ozone machine is placed in the cabin while the guests are out, once every two days.

 

Upon the smoker's disembarkation, Housekeeping will thoroughly clean, deodorize and prepare the stateroom for the next guests's arrival. All soft goods and linens are removed and a mist fogger is placed in the stateroom. Again, the carpet is treated with odor counteractant powder and vacuumed, and the bathroom exhaust covers are cleaned and the shower curtain replaced. An ozone machine and blower are once again placed in the stateroom. In cases where a heavy smoker has occupied the stateroom, the carpets will also be shampooed.

 

For guests who are highly sensitive to cigarette smoke, we recommend contacting our Ship Services Department at 1-800-541-1576 before sailing to request a deep cleaning of the stateroom prior to embarkation"

 

That was from a Special Advisor in the Office of the President.

 

YaYa

[mountainmare]

YA YA--

On our last cruise we entered our stateroom and it reeked of smoke--we wouldn't even put our carry-ons in the room. There was a dirty filled ashtray and ashes all around our balcony. Our door was open and someone walking by said--oh that's really bad. We were walking down the hall and in another cabin the door opened and an upset passenger was holding a dirty ashtray saying remove this now.

When we met our steward he went to get the super spray right away. But I really would say that in a perfect world the letter from HAL would describe what they would like to happen, the reality is that with the short turnaround for cabins this is imposiible to expect.

I would call HAL to make sure your cabin is cleaned.

All that being said I swore I would not sail HAL until they changed the policy---but here I am one week away from a sailing on the Ryndam. However, it is only a seven day cruise that was pretty inexpensive, we are looking at other lines for a longer cruise next year and if those lines satisfy our needs we will have to leave HAL until the policy changes.

[hulamoon]

We only have 32 days on HAL but we put that on the books in a twelve month period and are at the time in our lives we can cruise a little more. You bet, it is hard to change when we thought we found our home away from home.

 

We did ask for help when the room started smelling bad, maybe the odor neutralizers wear off. :eek: The solution was an ozone machine and it took several days of that to make the room tolerable. I am not sure these measures work as well as a non smoking room.

 

If the bottom line is better served positioning the ship as the "Ashtry of the Sea" than nothing we say will make a difference. But I think the efforts to make it tolerable for the smoke sensitive are weak. They may work for the folks who don't like smoke but can live with it.

[belle836]

if the bottom line is better served positioning the ship as the "ashtry of the sea" than nothing we say will make a difference.

 

 

lol!!

[Travalerie]

This is my first post on this thread and I have not been reading it all, so if this has been discussed I apologize. I am a non smoker/sensitive to smoke/have small kids etc. I have a balcony on the upcoming cruise. I went it with my eyes wide open, I knew the smoking policy when I booked, so I ask this question with peace in mind :) If I am next door to a smoker and we are out on our balcony at the same time repeatedly and that person is constantly smoking, my question is in two parts. Do I have the right to ask them to give us some smoke free time on our balcony? And secondly, how do you have this conversation is a polite, nonconfrontational way?

[cruz chic]

This is my first post on this thread and I have not been reading it all, so if this has been discussed I apologize. I am a non smoker/sensitive to smoke/have small kids etc. I have a balcony on the upcoming cruise. I went it with my eyes wide open, I knew the smoking policy when I booked, so I ask this question with peace in mind :) If I am next door to a smoker and we are out on our balcony at the same time repeatedly and that person is constantly smoking, my question is in two parts. Do I have the right to ask them to give us some smoke free time on our balcony? And secondly, how do you have this conversation is a polite, nonconfrontational way?

I think some smokers a very accomodating and they would not mind the request and would see that you are making a polite request. Others are not so polite and I'm sure would be offended no matter what you say or how you ask. This is why I'm glad I get a cabin in the cheap seats.

[COLLEYBERRY]

I posted a few pages back that my DH has a chronic lung condition and that is why we are concerned about smoking on ships. I wrote to HAL about my concerns as we were contemplating cancelling our cruise with them because of smoking. I thought for general interest sake I would post part of their response to me.

 

"Concerning smoking on board, over the years, we have attempted to move with current trends, and our present policy is to allow guests to smoke in their staterooms and balconies, and to designate certain areas both indoors and on decks for cigarette smoking, while cigar and pipe smoking is restricted to outside decks only. We do prohibit smoking in all dining areas, corridors and in most public rooms. This is an attempt to balance the needs of both nonsmoking guests and our smoking guests. However, none of our policies is permanent, save for our commitment to guest satisfaction, and as the attitudes toward smoking continue to change, we will revisit this policy. Guest input on any cruise element is welcome; we do note comments and they have an influence on future policy.

 

While we do allow cigarette smoking in our staterooms, we have procedures in place to ensure that all staterooms are free of odors and allergens left behind by guests who use tobacco products. Our Cabin Stewards identify smoker staterooms and report the stateroom numbers to the Stateroom Inspector. On a daily basis, the Steward will sprinkle carpet odour counteractant powder prior to vacuuming as well as spraying all soft goods and upholstery with deodorizer. Finally, an ozone machine is placed in the cabin while the guests are out, once every two days.

 

Upon the smoker's disembarkation, Housekeeping will thoroughly clean, deodorize and prepare the stateroom for the next guests's arrival. All soft goods and linens are removed and a mist fogger is placed in the stateroom. Again, the carpet is treated with odor counteractant powder and vacuumed, and the bathroom exhaust covers are cleaned and the shower curtain replaced. An ozone machine and blower are once again placed in the stateroom. In cases where a heavy smoker has occupied the stateroom, the carpets will also be shampooed.

 

For guests who are highly sensitive to cigarette smoke, we recommend contacting our Ship Services Department at 1-800-541-1576 before sailing to request a deep cleaning of the stateroom prior to embarkation"

 

That was from a Special Advisor in the Office of the President.

 

YaYa

 

 

Thanks Ya Ya for sharing your letter.

 

Wow sounds pretty labor intensive for the poor cabin stewards.

That fresh scent you smell on entering a Holland America cabin is from the carpet deodoriser(heaven only knows what that is doing to our lungs ,just kidding) :p

 

We were able to have a quick tour of the corner aft suite on the Eurodam before disembarking our last cruise,the powder was sprinkled everywhere I immediately reconized the scent.

 

Perhaps if we all asked for deep cleaning of our staterooms (as per Holland America suggestion)it would no longer become cost effective for them to allow smoking in the cabins

[Travalerie]

 

Perhaps if we all asked for deep cleaning of our staterooms (as per Holland America suggestion)it would no longer become cost effective for them to allow smoking in the cabins

I am with you! I am getting on the phone with ship services tomorrow to make sure our room is fresh if previously occupied by a smoker!!

[hulamoon]

Many people do ask smokers to stop smoking where they are allowed to smoke.

 

I do not and never have, but I was very tempted when on the zuiderdam the fellow next to us in an SC was not allowed to smoke in his cabin by his wife and spent the entire cruise smoking on the verandah downwind to us. I only found time just before the sun came up to enjoy the verandah. It was great, until the morning smoke began. Thankfully it was a port intensive cruise so I was busy enough during the day.

 

I am curious, what the heck is used to sprinkle on the floor?

[Travalerie]

Many people do ask smokers to stop smoking where they are allowed to smoke.

 

 

I would never ask in an area where its optional for me to be in-like the casino or a bar...I guess it feels different with the cabins. I don't really have a choice whether to be there or not and I would think there may be some give and take in that area.

[usha]

:) If I am next door to a smoker and we are out on our balcony at the same time repeatedly and that person is constantly smoking Do I have the right to ask them to give us some smoke free time on our balcony?

You can surely ask, but they can refuse your request, and be well within their right.:o

[COLLEYBERRY]

Many people do ask smokers to stop smoking where they are allowed to smoke.

 

I do not and never have, but I was very tempted when on the zuiderdam the fellow next to us in an SC was not allowed to smoke in his cabin by his wife and spent the entire cruise smoking on the verandah downwind to us. I only found time just before the sun came up to enjoy the verandah. It was great, until the morning smoke began. Thankfully it was a port intensive cruise so I was busy enough during the day.

 

I am curious, what the heck is used to sprinkle on the floor?

 

 

I did try and see if I could find the container to get a brand name. no luck. It does have a pleasant scent and does seem effective.Many of the store bought products are too strong for me

 

Wouldn't mind knowing if could be purchased (perhaps it's a Dutch product) Nice to use at home as reminder of Hal and to combat essence of puppy.:)

 

[Copper10-8]

Travalerie; in my opinion it comes down to common courtesy between "neighbors". Doesn't hurt to ask on your part. As has been brought up many times though, smoking is allowed on balconies by HAL, so those who do so are "within their rights". On your next cruise, I'd still ask if I were you, but be aware that you might get a negative (as opposed to affirmative) answer to your request.

I've never smoked and a neighbor on another balcony smoking has never bothered me, actually like the smell of a good pipe. My wife on the other hand, is bothered by it (the smoke) and goes back inside as soon as she encounters it. It has never "ruined" a cruise (or access to our balcony) though.

[Two@Sea]

You can surely ask, but they can refuse your request, and be well within their right.:o

 

My veranda neighbor politely asked (in a civil tone without a smidge of "whine" or "snark" detected :rolleyes: ) and I was very happy to oblige... we worked it out, and we both enjoyed our cruise experience.

 

(I am no longer a smoker, but had to resort to the well advertised prescription to achieve that status.)

 

Also, may I ask (in a civil tone without "whine" or "snark" :o ) Usha, why the HAL smoking issue is so important to you when you have almost thirty cruises listed and most of them are with other lines? I don't mean to be rude, really. I am just curious.

[usha]

Usha, why the HAL smoking issue is so important to you when you have almost thirty cruises listed and most of them are with other lines? I don't mean to be rude, really. I am just curious.

We really loved just about everything about our HAL cruises (except the smoking policy:o).

I'm hoping that they adopt a better smoking policy, so that my husband will let me book us another HAL cruise.

[hulamoon]

Many people do ask smokers to stop smoking where they are allowed to smoke.

 

I do not and never have, but I was very tempted when on the zuiderdam the fellow next to us in an SC was not allowed to smoke in his cabin by his wife and spent the entire cruise smoking on the verandah downwind to us. I only found time just before the sun came up to enjoy the verandah. It was great, until the morning smoke began. Thankfully it was a port intensive cruise so I was busy enough during the day.

 

I am curious, what the heck is used to sprinkle on the floor?

 

Just to make sure my position is not lost in partial quotes, I do not ask people to stop smoking. I just leave the balcony or area. Although this thread has given me ideas on the subject, I do not personally feel good about asking someone to stop smoking if they have every right to do so on their balcony. I would be very happy if a smoker asked if I was bothered by it though and a negotiation could happen. This is just my sense of fair play. I am not offended to hear that others do ask for what they want, it is just not my style.