Russian Waterways Help

[Chesie]

Hi everyone,

 

We are just starting to look into a rivercruise for the Russian Waterways. We have only been on one rivercruise (Amsterdam/Budapest) with AMA. Can anyone give us the skinny on the particulars? What makes one company better than others? Visas? Anything would be helpful. Heard alot about Viking but see they have a couple ships (old/new) but these ships don't look like your normal riverboat. Many thanks!

[Kellie Poodle]

I'm not much of a help as we are starting to look into Russia for 2011 ourselves. I did talk to a travel agent and she said that Viking's ships have the largest cabins. She said that all the boats in Russia are rented and that Viking had the best.

 

I'm not thrilled about Viking. I have heard mixed reviews about them and can't understand why their prices are so much higher than everyone elses. I am waiting for a book from AMAWaterways and will look into Avalon, too.

 

I've only done one river cruise and that was from Budapest to Amsterdam on Uniworld which probably spoiled me.

 

I would also be interested in hearing more about Russia cruises.

[Chesie]

Thanks for the reply Janet. Our only cruise was with AMA Amadagio. She was brand new that year and absolutely beautiful. LOVED everything about the cruise. Yes, Viking is expensive. We got a "2 for 1" brochure. I had to laugh. They had their regular price at over 7,000 pp and their "2 for 1" special brought it down to 3500. What a joke. Do they really think people are that ignorant that they believe the cruise is reallyyyyyy 7,000PP. My TA recommends them but I'm really put off by their marketing. Hopefully we will both get some feed back on other cc members with experience on this cruise.

[janetcbl]

We did this trip with Viking and have nothing but praise for the experience. The Surkov was one of the more modern ships with hotel type beds and full showers. The guides were excellent. Our only complaint was the time spent in traveling to the centers of Moscow and St. Petersburg, and this problem has been addressed by the company. All of the companies make the same stops between Moscow and St. Petersburg; the difference may only be the number of days spent in the two cities. It will be an incredible experience for you; choose the company that sounds like the best "fit" for you!

[Coral]

Pretty much all the river boats used in Russia are from the 50's and most look almost identical. Viking did refurb two of their ships and they would probably be my choice. There are some strange rules about ships in Russia that prevents the newer ships built elsewhere being brought into Russia for summers - so all the ships are older.

 

Avalon claimed to have a ship a few years ago (MS Anastasia) they they were rebuilding/renovating but it never materialized. They cancelled their sailings that year and it is not been in their brochure since. I believe I read that Uniworld has also pulled out due to the quality of ships available to lease.

 

I went with Amadeus (AMA) and for the most part, I wasn't impressed and would not go with them again to Russia.

 

I had previously done a land trip in high school to the Soviet Union (1988) and in my opinion - I much preferred seeing just Leningrad (St. Petersburg) and Moscow compared to the small time we spent in Moscow and St. Petersburg on the river boat and the towns inbetween. I also felt like we wasted tons of time in Moscow and St. Petersburg on the river cruise because we docked so far out and went back for lunches (think an hour each way and an hour for lunch). I much preferred staying in hotels in town and walking around and using public transportation.

 

Having done both land trip and river cruise - I strongly recommend doing a land trip there. I saw so much more and had so much more freedom (heck, even on a high school trip).

 

Regardless of what you decide to do, you will need to get a visa. Amadeus recommended a service (zvs.com) and I believe the other companies also make recommendations (Grand Circle, Viking, Vantage, etc..). While a tad pricey and long, the visa process was pretty painless.

 

If you do a search - I did a very long review on Amadeus Tolstoy on this website.

[Chesie]

THANK YOU! Your input has help tremendously. Didn't know about the travel time in the two cities. We were thinking of doing a Baltic ocean cruise but thought the rivercruise would give us more of an experience and time. I may have to rethink our means of travel on this one. Thanks again. CC members always come through!

[Coral]

THANK YOU! Your input has help tremendously. Didn't know about the travel time in the two cities. We were thinking of doing a Baltic ocean cruise but thought the rivercruise would give us more of an experience and time. I may have to rethink our means of travel on this one. Thanks again. CC members always come through!

 

Be very specific in finding out how much time in the two cities. For example - the Amadeus Tolstoy trip I was on operated "in reverse" of what was in the brochure which made it look like we were going to spend 3 days in Moscow. In reality, we arrived in Moscow at 1 pm and then spent one additional day (so 1.5 days in Moscow) which was not nearly enough. I would have given up 3 or so of the other ports (many which we only spent 3-4 hours in) to spend more time in Moscow. For me, Moscow and St. Petersburg are the highlights. The other ports were ok but I had my handful of monasteries and churches in the other ports. After awhile, they run together (and I love Russian history).

[Coral]

Here are some pics from the trip (it took for forever to get them up and many are not labeled - sorry about that):

 

http://web.mac.com/tlassek/Russia/MS_Tolstoy.html

[Chesie]

Here are some pics from the trip (it took for forever to get them up and many are not labeled - sorry about that):

 

http://web.mac.com/tlassek/Russia/MS_Tolstoy.html

 

Thanks for taking the time to share your pics!

[HDS]

I agree with Coral that Moscow and St Petersburg need much more time to explore than the cruises allow and would suggest a few days in both cities before and after the cruise. Get a street map, a guide book, consult the Tripadvisor forum for Metro maps and information, and learn enough of the Cyrillic alphabet to decipher signs. The Metro was a faster trip to town, from the 2008 docks, than the cruise company’s buses. Be prepared for pickpockets, who are very good at what they do, in the Metro, on the streets and inside tourist sites.

 

Viking’s tours in both cities (2008) were very superficial. They tell you they have priority, early tours before the crowds arrive. Early start, rush you into the venue, rush around in a group of 50 without time for a second glance, then out you go into the souvenir shop to wait for the bus. You can’t do your own thing with a map and audio guide because the venue is not officially open.

 

Unlike Coral I enjoyed the Russian river cruise and the river ports, finding the tours with the local guides more interesting and relaxed. I enjoy small towns and river cruising, just watching each bend of the river unfold and reveal its secrets. The lectures by the guides on Russia past and present were interesting.

 

Viking cruise boats in eastern Europe did not offer the service, comfort or ambience of Uniworld’s River Countess but this is a factor of location and national restrictions, not necessarily the operator, and on our unrenovated Russian river boat, provided us with a wealth of anecdotes and wry mirth. The rush-through tours were not amusing.

 

The eastern Europe boats are much larger with deeper hulls than the Rhine and Danube boats. The shallow hulled Rhine/Danube river boats would not fare well in Lake Lagoda or the Black Sea when the going is rough.

 

It was a great experience, I am so glad we did it but specially pleased that we has the extra time in the cities. I hope you enjoy whatever you decide to do.

[rogerdawhip]

I have done this cruise twice...in 1999 and 2008 and cannot wait to go again. I company (GT Cruises) I traveled with is no longer in business but make sure you check out Grand Circle Travel. They own their own ships and have completely refurbushed both of them. You must call them direct as they do not use travel agents. You can also check out their website regarding thier Russia cruises. I agree with HDS that the river cruising and towns visited are a very important part of the trip

[40yearcruiser]

We did this trip in 2008 with Vantage. All of the ships I saw were nothing special, but we enjoyed the trip. We didn't particularly like the guide we were assigned to, but that's just the luck of the draw. There were 5 or 6 groups on the ship of about 30 per group. It made a large crowd everytime we docked, even though we were split into smaller groups. We had 3 days in St. Petersburg and 3 days in Moscow when we went, but I think they have reduced the tour length by taking a day off each end--not good but a way to keep down the cost. We have traveled a number of times with Grand Circle and think they do a great job (we didn't do Russia with them because Vantage included a lot more things that were optionals, extra cost, on the GCT trip). Whatever company you decide on, it is a very interesting trip. We enjoyed the time on the boat just watching the passing scenery.

[cormike1]

We cruised last July with AMA on the MS Tolstoy and loved it. It was an older ship but spotlessly clean. The staff was wonderful and food good. We spent almost 3 days in Moscow and also St. Petersburg. We hired a private guide and driver through Red October for 2 1/2 days and a full day as we didn't like a couple of the museum tours they offered and with the guide we got to go into some places we had only passed by or stayed outside. Was well worth the money!!! There was 4 or us so we split the cost. You only go around once and we figured we might not get back there so what the heck. Our driver was Victor Fedorov and Anna was our guide. It is true that it takes at least an hour to get from the ship to Red Square but the cruise director, Marina worked with our driver and he met us in Moscow after our morning tours so that we didn't have to go back to the ship. I loved the cruise in between as it was lovely to see the countryside. Reminded us of our area of Ontario. It was nice to wind down after the hectic days in Moscow. We sailed on Viking on the Danube and Avalon on the Rhine and they all have their good points but we have liked all of them and whoever offers the trip we are looking for is the one we will take next. Go with an open mind and just soak up the amazing history of the country. I stood in Red Square and could hear the thousands of marching soldiers boots in time marching past me...well I imagined it I know but just amazing to think what happened there. Enjoy!

[Kellie Poodle]

Thanks so much to all of you who have posted your experiences here. I think you have answered some of our questions regarding the amount of sightseeing time and the location of where the boat docks in regards to the tours.

 

Regarding the AMA cruise: The cabin is really, really small. How was it for you? Do you think a claustrophobic person like myself could handle it?

 

Right now it's between Viking and AMA, but we are leaning towards Viking because of the cabin size but I really hate their two-for-one fictitious marketing ploy.

 

We are also looking at a Yangtze River cruise instead of Russia. The pricing is better for the length of the cruise and all the companies seem to rent their boats from the same fleet.

 

I have the better part of a year to make up my mind. As of last night we are leaning more towards China.

[CaribbeanIsland]

We did AMA on Tolstoy a few years ago and this is not a trip I would recommend. In Russia, it really is best to do this on land. There are so many inconveniences about doing a river cruise here. And yes, the cabins are very small.

[Kellie Poodle]

We did AMA on Tolstoy a few years ago and this is not a trip I would recommend. In Russia, it really is best to do this on land. There are so many inconveniences about doing a river cruise here. And yes, the cabins are very small.

 

Thank you!

 

I think I will turn my attentions to the Yangtze where we seem to have been drifting the past few days.

[Turtles06]

We did this trip with Viking and have nothing but praise for the experience. The Surkov was one of the more modern ships with hotel type beds and full showers. The guides were excellent. Our only complaint was the time spent in traveling to the centers of Moscow and St. Petersburg, and this problem has been addressed by the company. All of the companies make the same stops between Moscow and St. Petersburg; the difference may only be the number of days spent in the two cities. It will be an incredible experience for you; choose the company that sounds like the best "fit" for you!

 

Can you be more specific as to how the problem has been addressed?

 

We are thinking about a river tour in Russia, but really want to have enough time actually seeing the sights in Moscow and St. Petersburg, not spending it on a bus going to and from the ship...

 

For you and anyone else who has done such a trip ... are you not spending full days touring in Moscow and St. Petersburg? We've been considering a Baltics cruise, with an overnight in SP, and even with two crammed full days there on a private shore excursion there are significant things that can't be fit in....

 

Thanks so much for the information.

[pjtraveler]

I've not been following this thread but can address the travel time concern in Moscow and St. Petersburg as we made a river cruise with Viking last July. On the days in Moscow and St. Petersburg that we had a full day of touring, Viking packed us a very nice boxed lunch which we took on the bus and had a pleasant picnic lunch before continuing that day's tour--in that way we did not have to return to the cruise ship. On the day in St. Petersburg that we visited Catherine's Summer Palace and other stops, we had a marvelous lunch (along with all the groups from the 3 or 4 other Viking ships that were in St. Petersburg) at a brand-new special events venue.

 

We've traveled with Uniworld in China and Russia with Viking, and I would highly recommend both countries. We found no trouble with traveling by river cruise ship in Russia and most of our time in China was not spent in river cruising. Both trips are not to be missed! :)

[janetcbl]

As stated by the message below yours, Viking no longer returns to the ship after the morning programs for lunch and then drives back to the city again after lunch. You now either leave in the morning with a packed lunch or they stop at a restaurant for lunch, and then return to the ship in time for dinner. This allows about 2 hours more per day in the cities.

[marco]

We did the trip a couple of years ago with "Vantage". Thier brochure stated (and still does) that the Russian river boats are not comparable with those in Europe. The cabin was a bit more spartan and smaller, but adequate. The food was good, but not as "gourmet" as on the European rivers. When docked in St Petersburg, it was fairly convenient to touring the city on your own and returning to the ship. In Moscow, the ship is docked a distance from the city but after the organized tours there was a bus shuttle every couple of hours to/from. However, we used the subway system several times and the station is about two blocks from where the ship docks. Our guide was EXTEMELY helpful regarding the station, stops, schedule etc etc. In fact, we took the subway to a monestary (forgot the name) that's about midway between where we docked and downtown Moscow. Some lines now put you up in a hotel for the 3/4 days you're in Moscow instead of using the boat as your hotel. The boat was more than adequate and the sites are asbolutely amazing so I would not let a "more spartan boat than what you might be used to" deter you from doing this trip!