Too Heavy for Helicopter

[bearrabbit]

We are getting ready to reserve our excursions for our summer Alaska cruise/land tour.

 

Right now we are looking at doing a 'floatplane' tour in Juneau. It is my understanding that floatplanes are more 'lenient' in their weight restrictions then helicopters.

 

This is a very embarrassing topic ------ We really don't want to miss the floatplane glacier experience BUT would rather book something else then get in line for the excursion only to be embarrassed by not being allowed to board the plane.

 

Has anyone "quite fluffy" taken a floatplane? ----- Should I forget seeing the glaciers by plane completely and book just a 'whale watching cruise' instead?

 

I guess the only way to get any real advice is to be unbearably embarrassingly honest -- we're talking 240 lbs. and 295 lbs. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks.

[Nancynurse]

I booked the float plane through Island wings, and they didn't inquire about the weight of the passengers. On the Helicopter, they specifically asked weight, and made sure you were aware of the added cost of a half seat if you were over 250 pounds. To set your mind at ease, why don't you call them to inquire about a weight restriction ahead of time? That way there won't be any questions or embarrassing situations on the day of your excursion. Nancy

[CEWayfarer]

Either way, you'll still be able to GO.

It will just be more expensive....

[ocean.queen]

Hi Bearrabbit,

 

Don't worry...I (quite fluffy) booked a private flight with Denali Air for a flight to Mt McKinley...they asked me to write my weight on the consent sheet...that's all...my friend is lighter but the other man had to be at least 280 (his wife was thin). And they took all 4 of us in one of those small planes. For Misty Fjords...we signed up for the Princess excursion because there was 8 of us and we wanted to go at the same time. They asked our weight...wrote it on the paper...went in the back (I'm guessing to do calculations)...then they split us up 4 & 4. My 4 were with a very thin man and his young son and the other 4 were just the 4 of them (two big men). You just hope everyone is as honest with their weight as you are!!

 

I stayed away from the helo because the price would have been very expensive for me. It's my incentive to lose before my next trip :o

[calee]

No restrictions on planes........helicopters require an additional 1/2 fare if 250+ pounds.

The helicopter weight restrictions are mandated by the FAA and the extra 1/2 fare charged is to partially compensate the tour company as they lose one passenger space because of the overage.

[Genessa]

We did a float plane excursion in Juneau through Princess. They did not ask us our weight at all, but did eyeball us quite thoroughly and split the entire group over three different planes, keeping groups together, but telling us exactly where to sit on the plane.

 

However, the seats in that float plane were unlike any seats I have ever sat in on a plane, including a little four seater I flew in in New Hampshire.

 

The closest thing I can think of to the seats on this plane is folding camp seats. They were "hanging" cloth seats (fixed to the plane) that you sank into a little bit and they molded themselves around your bottom. They were in two single rows on each side of the plane.

 

One of my friends with me is a tall man, about 220 lbs. He looked quite uncomfortable with his knees near his chest, but had a terrific time anyway.

[mrfred]

While I understand why there is a weight requirement and a cost to compensate for not being able to carry as many passengers, if there are heavy passengers, why is it that I can't get anyone to waive the extra fee if I'm paying for 4 people (which is paying for 1000 lbs) and not even bringing 700 lbs worth of people?

 

It only seems fair to pay half price for my 90 lb person if they charge extra for my 300 lb person. Anyone out there know of any excursions willing to be resonable?

[calee]

They're charging per person, not per pound.You are bying space. It takes as much fuel to move a 90 pounder as a 200 pounder. On a four passenger rotocraft your 90 pounder wouldn't create space for a fifth passenger would it??

[mrfred]

They're charging per person, not per pound.You are bying space. It takes as much fuel to move a 90 pounder as a 200 pounder. On a four passenger rotocraft your 90 pounder wouldn't create space for a fifth passenger would it??

 

That makes no sense to me. If they are charging for space or per person my 4 people weigh less and take up less space than 4 250 lb people. If it is a four passenger rotocraft why would I have to pay for 41/2 people? It's a money grabbing scheme in the scenario I laid out.

 

Also, please explain how it costs the same in fuel to move 90 pounds as it does 200 pounds.

[Budget Queen]

They do NOT take up less space. They are still sitting in a SEAT of which there are only a certain number. Are you proposing that you have lap sitters to equal out 250 lbs. because you feel you aren't getting your moneys worth??? I have taken a LOT of Alaska flights and no you won't find any that are going to charge 90 lb adults less than anyone else. :)

[mrfred]

Maybe I was unclear. I'm taking up 4 seats. My alloted weight for those seats is 1000 lbs (250 x 4). Who cares if one is 300lbs and another is 200lbs as long as I don't go over 1000 lbs?

 

My total weight for the 4 passengers is uner 700 lbs. Far under the full fare weight I paid for. No one is getting a discount, the chopper is not over weight, the tour is not losing out on a possible passenger.

 

Why am I asked to pay for another 1/2 person. Please explain the logic? What have I missed? My understanding is the extra fare is to offset the loss of being able to carry another passenger. In the case I am presenting there is NO loss. So why do I need to pay extra?

[rgreenpc]

Let me add a little clarity to this area and qualify my comments...

 

I am a pilot ( former USAF and Corporate pilot (fixed and rotary))

There are two reasons to ask weight before a flight

 

1. Weight and balance calculations that must be done ( more for prop aircraft vs. helicopters ). as you can only trim an aircraft so much.

 

2. There is some truth to the extra weight causing an issue... but only in areas that require you to fly to altitudes above 5000 feel above ground level.

As air density decreases it takes more power, and therefore more fuel to fly higher. If you weigh more, it therefore costs more. This is most prevelant in Alaska helo charters.

 

Helicopter operations outside the US aren't bound by the rules of the FAA. They usually are bound by the CAA/JAA ( if they are territories of European countries )

 

There is no provision under CAA/JAA for extra fees based on weight.

 

Modern turbine helicopters can easily climb to altitudes above 10k feet with near full loads. For example - a Bell Jetranger ( which most tour companies use has an effective payload of 3200 lbs ) 3 people + pilot ( on average is 1000 lbs (using the 250 logic ) there would be fuel for around 6 - 20 minute trips... the logic comes in that if you weigh more they loose a trip by needing to refuel earlier. That is time they could be making money.

 

Hope I wasn't too boring.

[ocean.queen]

MrFred....I understand what you are saying and I agree that it just doesn't make sense to charge you more when they haven't lost payment for a seat in the helo because the total weight is below 1000lbs. BUT...I don't think you'll ever win this one...if they can charge us fluffy people more...they will !! I know a couple that rented a helo for the two of them...the price was quoted 11/2 times more for the man...why didn't they just say for the two of you it will be $*** instead of making a big deal about his weight? Cause that's just the way it is...you get used to it.

[mrfred]

Let me add a little clarity to this area and qualify my comments...

 

Modern turbine helicopters can easily climb to altitudes above 10k feet with near full loads. For example - a Bell Jetranger ( which most tour companies use has an effective payload of 3200 lbs ) 3 people + pilot ( on average is 1000 lbs (using the 250 logic ) there would be fuel for around 6 - 20 minute trips... the logic comes in that if you weigh more they loose a trip by needing to refuel earlier. That is time they could be making money.

 

Hope I wasn't too boring.

 

Not boring at all, I encourage any input that will make me understand how this is anything but greed in the case I presented. In my case your example wouldn't work because the pilot is one of the 4 people and I have four in my party. Even if there were 3 I still can't see how I should be charged extra if I fill all the seats and stay under the 250 lb per person total. They are out 0 extra fuel and 0 extra seats. I can see where you might be limited in where you sat but that is about it.

 

Thanks for the input.

[mrfred]

Thanks ocean.queen, for a minute there I thought I was the only sane one here. If there is a logical and necessary reason, I'll gladly pay. In this case, if I can't find an HONEST excursion with a chopper, I'll not part with my $. It's that simple.

 

Certainly almost $1600 can get 4 people (under 1000 lbs) to a glacier dog sled excursion and I'll be able to find a company that will dear fairly.

 

It's a matter of principle. I'm not against the company making a profit but I'm not fond of having my money stolen.

[SheilaS]

Do they literally weigh you? My husband is 6'6'' tall and has weighed between 245 and 255 for the past 15 years. Depending on how many days we have cruised prior to getting to the helicopter, he could weigh in at 255. :) Will it be an issue?

 

Sheila<------------does NOT weigh 250...... yet :D A few more cruises and she might:)

[elmtree]

I asked that same question a couple weeks ago, and all the responses said they did...So, although I am not 250 lbs..I will not be weighted on my vacation to see ANYTHING! hA..I even fight with my doctor every time she forces me to get on the scale..Not worth the stess...I will just look at the sights from afar, and give my money to someone less judgemental I guess..

[JohnQ]

The contracts for all of the helecoptor services flying tourists have this the weigh-in requirement and some have scales sitting there. I think that the only time they use them is if someone tells them 150#'s when it is obvious they are at least 250#'s, there could be a safety issue or more fuel or it is more difficult to fly. That is why they balance the passengers to make the trim? rudders? easier to fly. That is what we have been told on flts in Alaska and in Hawaii. One time I took my wife, kids and one of their friends for a flight and I had to sit in the back corner because of balancing out the load. I was not a happy camper. They usually will try to be discreet, but it can be important. Floatplanes are not usually as strict even though they ask you what you weigh.

For flt to Katmai NP in August, Homer Air had a strict 250# limit WITH gear!! Thank goodness my wife is tiny because I was definitely over, and called them in advance to make sure we were okay.

[DALSAL]

I thought the issue was that if you weigh over 250 lbs...you are spilling over into another seat,thus they cannot fill that seat with another body.Just like the airlines..they charge by the seat.They say its because of the weight limit to fly,but if one only weighs 90 lbs,then I feel they must be charging for the seat.

[calee]

You are correct DALSAL, it's as simple as that...........now escape from here while you can. This thread is like wrestling with a pig in the mud !!! :)

[mrfred]

Well that depends doesn't it. They say if you are over 250 lbs. (that sure sounds like they are selling by the pound doesn't it) and we all know there is a safe weight load that can be carried (still sounds like selling by the pound to me) but if you put a 90 lb kid in a seat the charge the same as a 250 lb person (here they charge by the seat) but if you want to put a 300lb family member between two children who barely weigh 200lbs put together they want to charge you for 3 1/2 people (doesn't sound like by the seat to me) The three sit with no discomfort on the air flight for HOURS to Alaska. It's simple, it's greed. They want a rule they can point to that they say they have under all conditions without exception. There is NO WAY 3 180 lb adults could fit in those same 3 seats with as much hip room as the two kids and my 300lb person. There is a weight limit to how much can be carried, that is simple. People come in all kinds of shapes and sizes. The reality is it's the combination of weight and size that matters. You could be 6' 10" and not have wide hips easily be over the 250lbs mark and be charged extra while another person is 5' 4" and under 250lbs but wide enough to make the others on both side uncomfortable but not pay the extra fare. How is this fair? In my case I have the passengers well within both limitations of size and weight but they still want to charge extra.

 

I choose not to pay and I choose to be vocal about it being unfair. I just wish they were A) more honest about what the actual problem is (not just weight) B) That they would look at a situation that may not be the norm and realize their hard, fast, rule doesn't really apply in all cases and C) Charge more appropriately for all of the passengers.

 

Too much to ask though so far

[mrfred]

Calee, no disrespect meant but I can not find where this issue is addressed by the FAA. If you are more adept at finding it or have first hand knowledge of where I can find the FAA mandate, I'd like to read it.

 

If it is mandated by the FAA and not a choice (albeit somewhat of an industry standard) I've made a complete ass of myself and I owe a lot of people an apology. I see this as a choice and business decision by the carrier and nothing more.

 

Thanks in advance and I am sincere. If it's a mandate, I'll shut up and pay (my family will probably pay to see that too :) )

 

No restrictions on planes........helicopters require an additional 1/2 fare if 250+ pounds.

The helicopter weight restrictions are mandated by the FAA and the extra 1/2 fare charged is to partially compensate the tour company as they lose one passenger space because of the overage.

[DALSAL]

Life is unfair....Im going on one of these tours and my brother who is 6ft.3 and weights 260lbs is going also..He moaned a little about it,but I told him that I had NEVER heard anyone (and there are a lot of ppl here that paid the extra) say that it was NOT worth so...So if you wanna go pay it,and if not find something else.Hes on a diet...LOL...btw...I dont come close to that,and Im on a diet too! Men never seem to gain the weight in the places that us ladies gain..and I think THAT is unfair...

[calee]

"Special note for helicopters: Passenger names and weights are required by the FAA for weight and balance calculations and flight manifesting. Due to weight and balance limitations and to ensure comfort, the helicopter excursion companies have advised that passengers weighing 250 pounds or more will be charged for an additional 1/2 seat. These rules and restrictions do not apply to floatplanes."

 

Mrfred I'm not going to spend anymore time searching for the FAA regulation number to satisfy your rant but I'd like to add that the many of the same "greedy"helicopter tour companys also provide Flightseeing on floatplanes.As noted above the weight restriction isn't applied for floatplanes. Why is that? Greed is greed, don't you think? The overall problem here,as I see it, is the rule favors the tour companies and not you and, well, that's life ,if you don't want to play take your ball and leave. You've made the correct choice, DON'T GO, this adventure is all about the wonders of Alaska and planning your trip is part of that joy. If something in your planning process aggravates you...eliminate it. I hope that you can accept things the way they are and have a great trip, for your family's sake........cheers.

[lmcd]

When you are weighed, they weigh you plus whatever you are taking aboard. This would include cameras, camcorders, etc.

 

About the floatplane with the hanging seats. I have been on several floatplanes in Alaska and never saw one like that. The ones I have been on had comfortable seats mounted to the floor of the plane.

 

Larry