Why complain about extra costs?

[time2cruise1]

i'll try to voice the negative pov since i am a person who spends absolutely nothing when i'm on a cruise. .

 

That is a shame because it really keeps you from enjoying the real value of NCL. If you think about it you are the last type of passenger NCL wants onboard and I don't expect them to make any changes to attract more passengers that spend nothing onboard.

[CanadianTwosome]

All of the mainstream cruise lines nickel and dime. People on this board complain about NCL's nickel & diming because that's the last cruise they took. Go over to the other cruise line boards and you will see just as many complaints on this topic. So the question isn't really why all the complaining about extra costs on NCL, but why all the complaining about extra costs on mainstream cruises. Personally, I believe it's due to psychology of marketing. It starts with the cruise fare. Cruise lines advertise their base cruise fares, but that is not your purchase price. They are counting on a low base fare to appeal to consumers, then they gradually bump up the price. First the base fare, then the taxes and fees, then gratuities, then the extras. While there is nothing wrong with this, is it really a surprise that some people get upset when they discover the true price of the cruise?

 

 

 

Once people find these boards, they find a wealth of information. But while these boards have a lot of visitors, they are just a small fraction of the cruising public. I bet we have a high percentage of new members who find this board after something unexpected happens during their cruise, and they talk to their fellow passengers about it who inform them about this great website. I have a friend who wants to take her family on their first cruise. She asked my advice, knowing that I have been on a number of cruises. I gave her all the info I wish I had when I was a first time cruiser. I answered the questions she didn't know she had. And she did not know about this website until I told her.

 

 

 

My thought is that they should offer a series of packages. NCL was headed in the right direction with their dining package. Give us some bundled packages to pick from, with a greater discount being given to the higher rate packages. You can buy extras a la carte at a base rate, or purchase a bundled package at a discount. Cruisers feel like they are getting a bargain, and the cruise line increases profitability as not all package-purchasers are going to use everything in their package. If all cruise lines posted their true fares and their package prices, the cruising public would find it much easier to comparison shop.

 

This is a real pet peeve of mine (not you - the idea of spending money without knowing what you're buying and then complaining about it). I've read over and over and over how people don't always find CC before they cruise. The thing is, CC is not the only place one can do research. My confusion is not about why people don't find CC before they cruise - it's why they are willing to shell out thousands of dollars without knowing what they're buying. If it's IMPORTANT that there are no additional charges once on board, this is something that they should absolutely ask BEFORE booking. If a first time cruiser is expecting their cruise cabin to be like a hotel room - space wise, bathroom wise, etc. then they should clarify that BEFORE they book. If on board dining is a concern, then they should find a way (CC for instance) to learn about what to expect BEFORE they book. If none of these things is important enough to put some time into BEFORE spending their money, then I just think they should take what they get and accept responsibility for not doing their due diligence. It's like sending your husband to the store to buy you 'a shirt' and expecting him to come home with one that is stylish, in a colour/pattern that works for you, and in the correct size. (I'd have a better chance of winning the lottery!) Your friend is an excellent example; she came to you for advice, knowing that you had experience - BEFORE she booked. Smart lady. :)

 

I completely agree about the pre-purchase packages. I would LOVE to see more of the dining package type options - and especially flexibility. Hopefully that dining package is just a precursor of things to come. We can already prepay our DSC if we want. I think the way to do it is to offer 'Build-Your-Own' packages, with discounts that grow according to the number of options you choose. The one problem I have with the dining package is that I don't want to eat at the Tex-Mex or Italian restaurants, but one of them is included in every package. I would much rather have a 'growing discount' according to how many restaurants I want to prepay - sure, my 'three restaurant' deal would cost more than someone else's, but I'm okay with that, as long as I get to choose the three restaurants. :)

[CanadianTwosome]

Yes, I have Western...so Costa Maya, which we are going to do a Ruins excursion for DH who doesn't dive, but also Roatan & Cozumel. Is the diving especially good at either or both of these destinations, or am not depriving myself (other than being on land, of course!) by doing the typical 4 x 4 island tour excursion with DH? thanks

 

To calibrate you on "especially good" I've dove Tobago, Nassau, BVIs, Moorea but am still a novice.

thanks!

 

Cozumel is where I first decided I wanted to scuba dive - while I was snorkelling and looking out for what seemed like miles into beautiful blue water teeming with life and interesting things to see. That was before some major hurricanes (1986), but I'm pretty sure Cozumel is still a 'must-dive' location. I know I'd like to do it sometime - but I'm even more of a novice than you are. We did a 'Discover Scuba' excursion last January and my daughter and I just got certified this past December, so our Epic trip will be the first time we're diving 'for real'. :)

 

What are you planning for Roatan? We booked with Victor Bodden when we were there and were VERY pleased. There's a thread about it on the NCL board right now if you're interested - and he's always coming up in threads on the Roatan board as well. :)

[erdoran]

That is a shame because it really keeps you from enjoying the real value of NCL. If you think about it you are the last type of passenger NCL wants onboard and I don't expect them to make any changes to attract more passengers that spend nothing onboard.

 

I think all passengers should be welcome as long as they pay their cruise fare and DSC! I have a problem with someone being treated differently, or being the "last type of passenger NCL wants onboard" because, for whatever reason, they choose to go with what they have ALREADY PAID FOR and not spend any more. That is their perogative--they have spent thousands of dollars on their cruise already!

 

Cruises are expensive enough. It seems like the ticket & DSC is perceived as a down payment, rather than payment in full....with the CHOICE to spend more to upgrade, or to spend NOTHING more and be entitled to enjoy exactly what you have already paid for.

 

There seem to be people who love the extras and consider the extra cost that goes along with them an essential part of a cruise, which is absolutely fine. There are others who are just happy to be cruising and are thrilled to eat in the MDR, not take excursions, stick to free drinks, and who don't feel deprived at all--which should be equally fine!

 

The whole thing about complaining about extra costs, being nickel & dimed to death, at least to me, comes from the perception (at least mine) that on cruises in general there are more opportunities to spend than to do what you've already paid for and nothing more, and there is a constant underlying expectation that you WILL spend and if you choose not to then "you can't afford to cruise and shouldn't cruise"--or that "you are the last type of passenger NCL wants onboard".

 

Sure, NCL and the other cruise lines are in business to make money--but doesn't your cruise fare make you welcome onboard?

[time2cruise1]

I think all passengers should be welcome as long as they pay their cruise fare and DSC! I have a problem with someone being treated differently, or being the "last type of passenger NCL wants onboard" because, for whatever reason, they choose to go with what they have ALREADY PAID FOR and not spend any more. That is their perogative--they have spent thousands of dollars on their cruise already!

 

?

 

I did not say they should or would be treated any differently. I simply stated NCL or any mainstream cruise line is focused on attracting the pasengers that spend money not enhancing the product for those who elect not to spend money on tours, bars, specialty dining, casinos, etc. They are not investing to add more free activities.

Clearly anyone can have a great cruise and spend very little above the tips. The fact remains a full ship with nobody spending on the extras will not make a profit and one of two things will happen - fares will go way up or the cruieline will go out of business.

[SueSea]

Your friend is an excellent example; she came to you for advice, knowing that you had experience - BEFORE she booked. Smart lady.

 

My friend is a great example. She was planning on taking her very active older kids on a cruise and saw a terrific rate on Celebrity Century. When she told me that, I explained to her why she really needed to pick a cruise line first that would best suit her & the kids, then look for a great rate. She thought that all cruise lines were pretty much the same. If she didn't have me, or anyone else experienced in cruising, she would have been in the same position that a lot of people are in--relying on the cruise line or a TA. It's not simply finding someone to answer your questions, it's finding someone who can help you figure out which questions to ask. For example, I know she is prone to motion sickness, so I told her we would need to book on a low deck, amidships. She was surprised to learn that in different parts of the ship, you feel the motion more than in others. She wouldn't have thought to ask that question.

[muttley]

time2cruise1

That is a shame because it really keeps you from enjoying the real value of NCL. If you think about it you are the last type of passenger NCL wants onboard and I don't expect them to make any changes to attract more passengers that spend nothing onboard.

 

i may be the oddest of oddball cruisers. i travel solo and care about only the free food and talking with fellow cruisers. i don't value eating a pay steak dinner or going on a excursion. instead you will find me walking around the port but if you want to buy me a drink i'll accept :). i have plenty of free time and would rather put that upspent money towards another cruise.

i'm not expecting ncl to tailor to the cheapskates like me and they'd be dumb if they did. i'm just saying as a cheapskate i feel i may be shortchanged on ncl compared to the other lines because they are trying to do so much and cut back on the free stuff.

i booked a studio last month when they had the 48 hour goof and am looking forward to the studio, private living room for studios and other solo stuff. i hope it works out for ncl. but if the normal price for the studio will be $799 i'll won't be going again soon because ncl is the absolute pits when it comes to the single suppliment. i can find better prices for solo 7 nighters.

[erdoran]

I guess I'm with Mutley. I think I've paid plenty for my cruise and I don't want to spend thousands of dollars and then spend the entire cruise being sold to, which is what seems like is happening. I may well choose to buy a few drinks, take a few excursions, pay for a martini tasting--the operative word is CHOOSE because I WANT TO, not because I am expected to. I don't think NCL is any better or worse than any other cruise line I've been on, all of them continually push the drinks, excursions, shopping (at THEIR recommended stores), bingo, etc, etc.

 

The "free" activities are ones I have already paid for with my cruise fare. To "diss" them in favor of paid activities makes me feel like I am not getting what I paid for...and why would I choose to pay for more if I'm not getting what I have already paid for?

 

There are statements made pretty regularly on this and other boards about how the cruiselines will either go out of business or have to raise fares if people don't spend on the extras. Is there a factual basis to this, or is it an assumption? There's such a thing as pricing a product or service out of the market as well...yes, there will always be wealthy people who have value for the extras and are happy to buy them, but there are also cheapskates like me (and Mutley!) who are either perfectly happy with the "free food & activities" (which aren't free, we paid for them in our fare) and who want to pick & choose their extras--if they even want them at all.

 

I find it hard to believe that when I am paying thousands of dollars for a week in a spa suite (Christmas week--top dollar--my choice to cruise that week because DH can't get off any other time) that NCL isn't making a profit on me--a very big profit--even if I don't spend another cent! Is there a perception that cruisers who spend a lot on extras are subsidizing the Mutleys and erdorans of cruising?

[Adkmom]

$799 is a pretty decent per person rate for a brand new ship. And they would get twice that for a studio with 2 people in it. For $799 you get 7 nights stay, transport to 3 locations, all the food you can eat and entertainment. You don't get a discounted rate in a hotel for being single. You could not stay in a hotel, eat and watch quality shows for that price on land. Really the people that pay the most on NCL are couples who both pay full price for the room. We do well because our kids pay a very low rate for 3rd and 4th person. The value of this ship is really amazing if you ask me. Blue Man group would be $50 per person easily, that represents $200 of my fair as far as I am concerned. A day at a water park would be a similar price. Start adding up all you get for the money and cruise prices are an amazing value. Try to go to any resort area and stay in a decent hotel, eat, go to shows at night and see how much it will cost you.

 

My only gripe is the amount of mark up on things like Alcohol and photos but that is the case any where not just cruise lines. The problem with Alcohol is I can choose to take my own to a hotel and enjoy it on my balcony I can not do that on a cruise I am forced to pay their prices. Cruise prices for alcohol are however not any higher than your average restaurant and they are lower than most night clubs and entertainment venues.

 

You can have a very enjoyable time on a cruise without spending any extra money( at least if you don't drink). You get to choose what to spend extra on that is why NCL is a good idea in my book. Carnival for example may be less per person rate but you get what you pay for. Their entertainment is not nearly as good as NCL. The entertainment is what makes the on ship experience for me.

[CanadianTwosome]

My friend is a great example. She was planning on taking her very active older kids on a cruise and saw a terrific rate on Celebrity Century. When she told me that, I explained to her why she really needed to pick a cruise line first that would best suit her & the kids, then look for a great rate. She thought that all cruise lines were pretty much the same. If she didn't have me, or anyone else experienced in cruising, she would have been in the same position that a lot of people are in--relying on the cruise line or a TA. It's not simply finding someone to answer your questions, it's finding someone who can help you figure out which questions to ask. For example, I know she is prone to motion sickness, so I told her we would need to book on a low deck, amidships. She was surprised to learn that in different parts of the ship, you feel the motion more than in others. She wouldn't have thought to ask that question.

 

She really is an excellent example!! I definitely agree with you about having to rely on TAs and the cruiselines, also. I used a TA for our Jan 2009 cruise because there was a group going and I was hoping that we'd have enough for a group rate and perks. Fortunately, I was able to explain to her how Freestyle works, when to call to see about price reductions, and what a 'Cruise Reward Certificate' was. I can't see her being of any help at all to anyone with no cruise experience, because she clearly didn't have any herself. That being said, before the internet was as accessible as it is now, I used to go to the library or a book store and read travel guides. Information is available in abundance if people just want to put a little effort into finding it (or sometimes it takes a LOT of effort, but to me it's all worth it so that I can make an informed decision about how to spend my money).

 

You bring up a very good point about motion in different parts of the ship. Your friend actually did know what she needed to inquire about, though - seasickness. If she hadn't had you as a resource, I believe that this woman, who clearly knew that motion sickness was a potential issue for her, would have found another way to learn about it. Also, even though she found a great rate, she didn't run out and book it. She went to her best resource (you) and asked for your advice - she may not have needed to explain all of her needs to you because of your relationship, but I'm confident that if she'd had to look elsewhere she would have explained them well. Your friend is a perfect example of how I think people should prepare when considering any vacation. She knew what appealed to her and she knew what she needed - then she sought out a resource to find out how well the two could be combined in the best way for her family. :)

[erdoran]

Cozumel is where I first decided I wanted to scuba dive - while I was snorkelling and looking out for what seemed like miles into beautiful blue water teeming with life and interesting things to see. That was before some major hurricanes (1986), but I'm pretty sure Cozumel is still a 'must-dive' location. I know I'd like to do it sometime - but I'm even more of a novice than you are. We did a 'Discover Scuba' excursion last January and my daughter and I just got certified this past December, so our Epic trip will be the first time we're diving 'for real'. :)

 

What are you planning for Roatan? We booked with Victor Bodden when we were there and were VERY pleased. There's a thread about it on the NCL board right now if you're interested - and he's always coming up in threads on the Roatan board as well. :)

Yes, I actually followed the Victor Bodden thread and even got DH to look at his web page. I'm open to all recommendations! Thanks for the Cozumel diving tip, I wasn't sure about there or Roatan so now I will start researching it.

 

FWIW I got addicted to diving on a cruise also, in Bora Bora of all places! Resort dive with Club Med cruise and I was hooked for life!

[CanadianTwosome]

I guess I'm with Mutley. I think I've paid plenty for my cruise and I don't want to spend thousands of dollars and then spend the entire cruise being sold to, which is what seems like is happening. I may well choose to buy a few drinks, take a few excursions, pay for a martini tasting--the operative word is CHOOSE because I WANT TO, not because I am expected to. I don't think NCL is any better or worse than any other cruise line I've been on, all of them continually push the drinks, excursions, shopping (at THEIR recommended stores), bingo, etc, etc.

 

The "free" activities are ones I have already paid for with my cruise fare. To "diss" them in favor of paid activities makes me feel like I am not getting what I paid for...and why would I choose to pay for more if I'm not getting what I have already paid for?

 

There are statements made pretty regularly on this and other boards about how the cruiselines will either go out of business or have to raise fares if people don't spend on the extras. Is there a factual basis to this, or is it an assumption? There's such a thing as pricing a product or service out of the market as well...yes, there will always be wealthy people who have value for the extras and are happy to buy them, but there are also cheapskates like me (and Mutley!) who are either perfectly happy with the "free food & activities" (which aren't free, we paid for them in our fare) and who want to pick & choose their extras--if they even want them at all.

 

I find it hard to believe that when I am paying thousands of dollars for a week in a spa suite (Christmas week--top dollar--my choice to cruise that week because DH can't get off any other time) that NCL isn't making a profit on me--a very big profit--even if I don't spend another cent! Is there a perception that cruisers who spend a lot on extras are subsidizing the Mutleys and erdorans of cruising?

 

I absolutely agree with you. I believe the cabins are priced to make a profit. I doubt they're making much on the insides, but certainly as the categories get higher, they're making more and more per capita. There's something to be said for covering expenses, also - there is zero profit until expenses are met, so the more cabins booked, the better. I think it's a lot like movie theatres, though. They charge what the market will bear for the seats and then hope that a good portion of the patrons will head for the concession before they find a seat. The thing about optional services, though, is that they're optional; neither cruiselines nor movie theatres can rely on meeting their bottom line through 'extras', because they cannot force anyone to purchase anything after they've paid their 'entrance fee'. As you said, there will always be people who will, but there are never any guarantees when there's choice involved.

 

I also believe that their included amenities are great; the only extras my family ever incur are specialty restaurants and an adult beverage or two - and we choose them for sheer pleasure, not because we're unsatisfied with the included fare. Otherwise, we have a wonderful time enjoying things that are included in our fare - recreational facilities, entertainment - and of course that amazing view! :)

[ddakrt]

Cozumel is where I first decided I wanted to scuba dive - while I was snorkelling and looking out for what seemed like miles into beautiful blue water teeming with life and interesting things to see. That was before some major hurricanes (1986), but I'm pretty sure Cozumel is still a 'must-dive' location. I know I'd like to do it sometime - but I'm even more of a novice than you are. We did a 'Discover Scuba' excursion last January and my daughter and I just got certified this past December, so our Epic trip will be the first time we're diving 'for real'. :)

 

What are you planning for Roatan? We booked with Victor Bodden when we were there and were VERY pleased. There's a thread about it on the NCL board right now if you're interested - and he's always coming up in threads on the Roatan board as well. :)

 

I too heard Cozumel is a very good place to dive. Would love to get certified myself, the big Blue Hole in Belize is so cool!

 

As for Roatan, we went with Victor too lol. Before we went I've read very positive thing about one of his drivers Tex so we requested to have him as our guide; Tex is very knowledgeable, friendly, and just an all around good guy. I highly recommend his service is you do go with Victor.

They also went wherever we wanted to go, no problems at all. I also recommend the guys at Pirates of the Caribbean if you are to do a zipline.

[ddakrt]

but untill i see ncl's prices for cabins become the cheapest in the industry because of this business model there is nothing in this plan that benefits me personally.

 

By no means is NCL the "budget cruise line" some thinks it is, but their base fare is typically lower than all the other lines.

[time2cruise1]

By no means is NCL the "budget cruise line" some thinks it is, but their base fare is typically lower than all the other lines.

 

That is the key. NCL was the budget cruise line when it had the rag tag fleet of small white ships. All of them are now gone. We are talking about a reborn line with the youngest fleet in the industry.

muttley - If having more options to tailor your cruise is not of value and you are looking for NCL to be the rock bottom price then you are right NCL may not be the best choice for you.

[ddakrt]

That is the key. NCL was the budget cruise line when it had the rag tag fleet of small white ships. All of them are now gone. We are talking about a reborn line with the youngest fleet in the industry.

 

Serious question here since I was just a kid when those white ships were around (that was the '80s and '90s right?), how did the Norway fit into that? Was it also more a budget ship or was it marketed differently than the other ships in the fleet?

[time2cruise1]

Serious question here since I was just a kid when those white ships were around (that was the '80s and '90s right?), how did the Norway fit into that? Was it also more a budget ship or was it marketed differently than the other ships in the fleet?

 

The Norway was the flagship. The first real cruise ship as the destination. She changed cruising. Interesting you bring this up on the Epic boards. In many ways the Norway was the Epic/Oasis of her time. They had named entertainment onboard like the Epic. It just dawned on me that maybe someone dusted off the old Norway successful marketing plans for the Epic.

Near the end of her run as others introduced new destination cruise ships she became the biggest budget bargain ship.

[ddakrt]

The Norway was the flagship. The first real cruise ship as the destination. She changed cruising. Interesting you bring this up on the Epic boards. In many ways the Norway was the Epic/Oasis of her time. They had named entertainment onboard like the Epic. It just dawned on me that maybe someone dusted off the old Norway successful marketing plans for the Epic.

 

Near the end of her run as others introduced new destination cruise ships she became the biggest budget bargain ship.

Thanks for the insight! Glad to hear she wasn't really a "budget ship" until the end of her career.

[geegee1]

Wait till you compare ncl with rcl worst food and service and extra charges,i never complained about any other cruise till i just got off ncl gem and heard epic just got all their staff from gem and they were the same never go out their way to make a tip or just be nice and english is poor when you ask for a request.

 

 

You are complaining about someone else's poor english???

[SuiteRose]

You are complaining about someone else's poor english???

 

I was thinking the same thing? LOL!! I actually love reading really negative reviews, just for a good laugh...

[pokeypoke]

You are complaining about someone else's poor english???

 

Too funny:D!

[sjbdtz]

You are complaining about someone else's poor english???

 

The OP said "English is poor when you ask for a request". They didn't specify WHOSE English was poor! :rolleyes:

[kaparzo]

I will be on my very first cruise on May 14th out of Boston. First of all this forum is extremely helpful and have already found a lot of answers.

Before I booked this cruise, I read some reviews on one of the travel websites...

I found one comment very interesting and was wondering if anyone could shed some light on it

 

"There should have been a big NOTE on the ship flyer the first day to say -There will be a $10 per day, per person charge for housekeeping and restaurant staff. We were unaware and were tipping daily only to find out about the $10 per day/per person charge on the last day."

 

Is there any truth to this?

[KandJCruising]

I will be on my very first cruise on May 14th out of Boston. First of all this forum is extremely helpful and have already found a lot of answers.

Before I booked this cruise, I read some reviews on one of the travel websites...

I found one comment very interesting and was wondering if anyone could shed some light on it

 

"There should have been a big NOTE on the ship flyer the first day to say -There will be a $10 per day, per person charge for housekeeping and restaurant staff. We were unaware and were tipping daily only to find out about the $10 per day/per person charge on the last day."

 

Is there any truth to this?

A lot of truth.

 

Because of the Freestyle concept, NCL uses a Daily Service Charge (DSC- search DSC on here and you'll find plenty of discussions/debates/arguments). While you tip your individual stewards/wait staff, etc. on a traditional line, on NCL you don't have the same staff at each meal. The DSC is an efficient way to make sure everyone gets their fair share.

Just FYI- the charge is also now $12 per person/day. Given the service I've received I think it's fine and in line with what I've paid on other lines.

It's well documented in NCL paperwork and shouldn't come as a surprise, though it still does for some apparently.

[mek]

I can't wait to spend some of my money on the Epic in September. I can choose what I want to do extra and not be charged for those things that don't interest me. Sounds good to me!