Costa ship Mediteranean Hits Pier 4 hrs ago

[Erica@cruisecritic]

What a horrible tragedy! Our hearts go out to the family of the crewmembers and all the Costa Europa crew. The Cruise Critic editors are trying to get more details to update our story, including whether Costa Europa's next cruises will be canceled and how the damage and repairs will affect the ship's handover to Thomson.

 

If any members were on the scene and have a photo of the ship listing that we can use, please post it here. We'd also love to hear your firsthand accounts of what happened this morning. Thanks!

[Lanky Lad]

The is very sad news :( If the crew members where kitchen workers, it begs the question of how on earth they died.

 

The ship must have hit the dock with some force to do that much damage so there are questions that need to be answered, firstly was it safe to try to dock, secondly, if they did not use tugs to help control the ship, why not?

[above sea level cruiser]

The Europa has done this cruise now several times recently.

 

What was different this time? Pilot, Captain, weather?

 

Looking at the photos that are available, the gash seems quite low down, about or below the water line. How did the crew members die, too near the gash, thrown about by the jolt?

Or maybe the old lady doesn't want to leave the Costa fleet.

 

Ron

 

you are an idiot

[alwayshappytocruise]

The is very sad news :( If the crew members where kitchen workers, it begs the question of how on earth they died.

 

The ship must have hit the dock with some force to do that much damage so there are questions that need to be answered, firstly was it safe to try to dock, secondly, if they did not use tugs to help control the ship, why not?

 

The crew members that died were in their cabin(s). Kitchen staff or not why would you want to know "how on earth they died"?

[Savoia]

Carnival Miracle's thud was more than a kiss...it was around 15ft long & went into the superstructure below the hull...

 

Still makes me wonder if there is some sort of pressure on the captains/pilots to get the ship into port and the guests onto ship shorex at all costs...afterall cancelled shorex means refunds and that equals less income from that port. Cynical way of looking at it but something must make them try and berth in bad weather rather than say 'no, not today' and sail past.

 

I have to agree..this is the sixth major accident for Carnival in six months..unheard of in the industry. Each time, like now, Carnival has blamed the weather for the incident. To be frank I think Carnival needs to look at how they can do better for the safe operation of their vessels. Something is obviously not right.

[azsunshine]

Two photo's of the damaged Europa are in this report...

 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2869843/Brits-hurt-in-Egyptian-boat-crash.html

 

This could delay her transfer to Thomson...she is in a bad way.

 

Sympathies go to those killed & injured & their families.

 

I am seeing one, not two photos...what am I missing here?

[DEIx15x8]

I have to agree..this is the sixth major accident for Carnival in six months..unheard of in the industry. Each time, like now, Carnival has blamed the weather for the incident. To be frank I think Carnival needs to look at how they can do better for the safe operation of their vessels. Something is obviously not right.

 

Agreed, if they always have the same excuse of the incident being the weathers fault. I think it's about time that they start investing some money in learning how the weather effects ships so that they can properly make decision about docking and departing in poor weather. It seems like other lines have this figured out. Even NCL has over come that short period of incidents they had a few years ago.

[Scotsnomad]

I think that they should start looking at the shapes of the ships that are being built nowadays, the ships are too square in shape and allow the wind to capture them.

 

Recently I was on one of RCL's vessels and during a visit to the bridge I enquired over the aspect of windage and divergence to one of the bridge officers and they were not aware of the thru formula. In my occupation its necessary for me to be able to work out how much time we have to react before it goes pear shaped.

 

Having watched on you tube some time ago another cruise liner suffering from a strong wind problem and being blow away from the pier you can understand how these problems arise.

 

No Im afraid that the cruise lines need to start looking again at the safety aspect again if these types of incidents are to be stopped. Im still filled with horror of any problems involving RCL's new boat Oasis !

[yatchet]

Since the Costa Europa is sailing under an Italian flag it will be the Italian equivalent 'Marine accident Investigation Bureau' who will be doing the investigation on it, in cooperation with the Egyptian marine agency.

 

For this all the crew on the bridge at the time, including the pilot will be interviewed to try and find out what happened. Every little action will be gone over to make sure lessons are learned. Since there were fatalities it means that someone could/might be held accountable.

 

However looking at the initial information coming from various sources it appears that it was caused by heavy winds blowing the ship sideways that it could be classed as accidental. This does not mean that the Captain will get off scot free as ultimateluy the buck stops there.

Because of the shape of ships nowadays the effect of leeway (drifting due to windage) some of the ships are nothing more than a hugh sail. These ships can and often do move a some speed when being pushed by the wind.

 

Im glad that the watertight intergrity system proved itself otherwise things could have been a lot worse, but still it was bad enough that they broadcasted 'abandon ship'.

 

My condolences to the families of the 3 crew members who died in their cabins.

I Agree, the shape of the new ships certainly causes problems with windage etc, however Europa was built 1985, delivered '86 and is more an ocean liner type design, not a square box like the newer 'ships'.

[leoandhugh]

Regardless of shape or when she was built, the ship still has a huge superstructure above the water. When hit by a 'fierce" wind, as these were characterized, it is like taking a gale force wind broadside into a mainsail. And when the ship has little way on such as when approaching a pier, it can be even worse.

Blame who you will but whomever made the decision to go ahead and try docking has a lot to answer for

[aguamel]

It's got to be the Costa Europa, not the Mediterranea. Terrible news. Every couple years or so a cruise ship captain manages to crash his ship into the dock somewhere. Now we have three dead and four injured. Let's hope the final talley doesn't increase. Poor Costa Europa - I've always loved that ship, and a little over two years ago I was on her when she docked at Sharm!

 

I see that on your "to do" list is Costa Mediterranea this Oct, 2010 on the Egypt, Israel, etc. We are book. Started a thread, but so far no one else has joined. Is there another thread that I have not found? Have been on many other Cruise Critic cruises and organized and joined some great land tours. this is our first Costa, with over 300 days on other lines around the world. Hoefully it is not the Mediterranea that was damaged and lives lost, even so anytime there is an accident at sea it is terrible. We have been very fortunate in our years of travel. Peg/ Aguamel

[Scotsnomad]

Taking into consideration the passengers, the cruise ship and the financial aspects the master of the ship has very little leeway in his decision.

 

I am fully aware how sudden gusts can cause major problems to vessels when they are going alongside, when they are departing or even when they are actually tied up alongside.

 

Inclemental weather whilst alongside could mean having to double up on the mooring lines, when the vessel is coming alongside the master/pilot are dealing with it to the best of their experience. However when an external force and unknown force affects the vessel there is often very little that they can do, especially if it is a sudden gust of wind..

 

The Europa may be like a 'liner' however the windage of her would cause her to be greatly affected by sudden gusts. A sudden gust of wind on this type of vessel could add at least 2 knts of speed to their approach (Information gained from an official Search and Rescue Publication) Until all the facts are known by the enquiry that is likely to take place by the Italian MAIB then its all hearsay but we should not make rash and in my view dangerous statements not that any have been made yet.

 

In my view the Captain made a sound judgement call which due to extenuating circumstances and external forces meant that a horrible accident occurred.

[Goldryder]

Costa Europa has now been removed from the Costa webcam page on their sites.

 

Those wanting to understand how the crew died when in their beds, the photo's below are of the damage done. The crew cabins are directly behind the hole in her side, her superstructure is pushed in quite significantly, the cabins are below the waterline, so chances are the crew drowned (hopefully they did not know too much about it).

 

You will also see the stabiliser symbol above the damage, this would indicate that the stabiliser was just below the hole, whether or not the stabilser or its housing have been damaged is unknown at this point. Divers are seen in the photo who will have inspected the rest of the hull under the hole at some point once the ship was made safe. She is listing approximately 40 degrees by the use of ballast tanks, this is to maintain the hole above the waterline.

[Jim The Scot]

Close up picture of damage http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2870891/Brit-terror-as-3-die-in-cruise-ship-crash-in-Sharm-el-Sheikh.html

[G.M.T.]

I am seeing one, not two photos...what am I missing here?

 

When I first looked at the link there were two photos and as you state now only one. The article must have been updated (i.e. a photo removed).

 

Ron

[Goldryder]

The March 22 cruise from Dubai to Savona has now been removed from the availability listings on the Costa UK website - it was there yesterday & had cabins up for grabs. The ship has completely vanished off the fleet list & webcams (originally the webcam was up but not running from her departure from Safaga).

 

Obviously no official word has gone out yet in regards to the March 4 & March 22 cruises...after which she goes for refit prior to transfer to Thomson. But...and I repeat BUT....it does look like they are evaluating the next two cruises since she has been removed entirely from the cruise programme schedule tween now and her transfer to Thomson.

 

The closest drydock would probably be Port Said...then Piraeus, Naples & Genoa. If a temporary repair can be made in Sharm...remembering the hole is on deck one and under the waterline...she may be repositioned to any of the above yards for full repairs/assessments.

 

With a hole the size and depth it is & in the position it's in, I personally would be very surprised if the March 4 cruise went ahead as per itinerary, but the decision will be down to Costa & their insurers...and the revelent safety authority which in Costa's case is RINA.

[G.M.T.]

On the Costa Germany site, the web cams (from 25th. Feb.) are still there but the last two remaining cruises have been removed. Also several German online TA have still show the cruises but the prices have a line through them similar to when a cruise is booked out.

 

http://www.costakreuzfahrten.de/B2C/D/Shopping/Ships/EU/default.htm

 

Even if the Europa is repaired by 22nd. March I am sure the cruise will not take place (Dubai to Savona). Maybe there will be short Med cruises (/days) that could be offered to the passengers booked on the two remaining cruises.

 

Ron

[diamond-queen]

Perhaps all those that moan when a Captain announces that he will not be docking due to weather conditions will remember this next time instead of complailning bitterly and demanding recompense !!

[G.M.T.]

Some more information:

 

http://gulfnews.com/news/region/egypt/egypt-investigates-costa-crew-over-pier-crash-1.589533

 

Ron

[Goldryder]

Unfortunately the Egyptians can be a little vague when it comes to taking responsibility when things go awry.

 

There would have been an Egyptian pilot on board Europa...standard procedure...docking a fairly large passenger ship in the dark during squally weather is not easy by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Decisions were made...rightly or wrongly..and an accident occurred with the loss of 3 lives.

 

Now when I say that the Egyptians are vague on responsibility...they have a track record of trying to place 100% blame on everyone/everything else but themselves. There have been several tragedies in recent years where accountability has been shifted from the Egyptians to either the item or personnel nearby...despite investigations showing the exact opposite.

 

An extremely tragic case is that of EgyptAir 990...background to which can be easily googled...and that of Flash Airlines 604 that crashed into the sea off Sharm el Sheikh, again it can be googled for more information.

 

So it does not surprise me at all, sadly, that the Egyptian authorities would prefer their personnel to be cleared of all blame in this tragedy.

 

Recriminations at this point are of no use, apportioning blame will come much later....at this stage it is just a very tragic accident arising from a combination of bad weather & misfortune...something that no-one could have foreseen.

[hat776]

I posted this by mistake on the other thread. Maybe someone can give me some feed back -

 

I know absolutely nothing about docking a huge ship. But here in Malta our Grand Harbour is very safe but on the rare occasions when the sea is too rough the Port Authorities close the port.

If the sea was too rough wouldn't it be the duty of the Egyptian authorities to either close the port or communicate to the liner not to enter ? In other words, even if the ship's captain wanted to enter they should have refused permission and not even sent the pilot.

Whatever, can you imagine how horrifying it must be for the captain and senior officers knowing that ultimately they caused the death of the three crew members.

[Goldryder]

I know Grand Harbour well, beautiful part of Malta, hoping to get back there next year...been to the island many times, love it :)

 

The problems at Sharm seem to have been very sudden, without warning. The weather in the region had been bad, but something like a shift in wind direction coupled with choppy seas can be very hard to negotiate...especially in the dark, which at just before 5am it would have been still quite dark, visibility wouldn't have been good either if there was heavy rainfal, hail etc.

 

The pilot would have been on the bridge and ultimately it is he who would be in charge of docking although the captain would have been present too.

 

There is every chance that the ship was almost docked safely when a sharp direction change in the wind occurred...it really doesn't take alot of wind to push a ship the wrong way or up against any hard object that happens to be there...such as the quayside.

 

By the same token, it is almost impossible to stop a ship caught by the wind from hitting things...similarly when Titanic hit the iceberg, it is not like a car that you can turn the wheel and it turns away from the problem instantaneously, ships are not too good at quick movements and even the best captain with the quickest reation times probably would not have been able to escape what happened with Europa. Once the wind got a hold of her she was at that wind's mercy, her engines would be idling...there was very little anyone could have done, and I am certain they would have done their absolute best to avoid the collision.

 

They will be devastated about the crew deaths, Costa crews are one of the most family orientated crews I have known, they will all have taken the deaths very hard.

[PaulMCO]

Unfortunately the Egyptians can be a little vague when it comes to taking responsibility when things go awry.

 

There would have been an Egyptian pilot on board Europa...standard procedure...docking a fairly large passenger ship in the dark during squally weather is not easy by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Decisions were made...rightly or wrongly..and an accident occurred with the loss of 3 lives.

 

Now when I say that the Egyptians are vague on responsibility...they have a track record of trying to place 100% blame on everyone/everything else but themselves. There have been several tragedies in recent years where accountability has been shifted from the Egyptians to either the item or personnel nearby...despite investigations showing the exact opposite.

 

.

 

Clearly it is the Europa's Captains responsibility. He made the decision to dock in weather that was certainly less than favorable.

[Savoia]

Clearly it is the Europa's Captains responsibility. He made the decision to dock in weather that was certainly less than favorable.

 

Which I think stems from parent Carnival which is out maxamize revenue first and passenger satisfaction second.

[Castellan]

March 4th Cruise has definitely been cancelled.

 

The March 22 cruise from Dubai to Savona has now been removed from the availability listings on the Costa UK website - it was there yesterday & had cabins up for grabs. The ship has completely vanished off the fleet list & webcams (originally the webcam was up but not running from her departure from Safaga).

 

Obviously no official word has gone out yet in regards to the March 4 & March 22 cruises...after which she goes for refit prior to transfer to Thomson. But...and I repeat BUT....it does look like they are evaluating the next two cruises since she has been removed entirely from the cruise programme schedule tween now and her transfer to Thomson.

 

The closest drydock would probably be Port Said...then Piraeus, Naples & Genoa. If a temporary repair can be made in Sharm...remembering the hole is on deck one and under the waterline...she may be repositioned to any of the above yards for full repairs/assessments.

 

With a hole the size and depth it is & in the position it's in, I personally would be very surprised if the March 4 cruise went ahead as per itinerary, but the decision will be down to Costa & their insurers...and the revelent safety authority which in Costa's case is RINA.