Costa ship Mediteranean Hits Pier 4 hrs ago

[BikerAl]

Unfortunately the Egyptians can be a little vague when it comes to taking responsibility when things go awry.

 

There would have been an Egyptian pilot on board Europa...standard procedure...docking a fairly large passenger ship in the dark during squally weather is not easy by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Decisions were made...rightly or wrongly..and an accident occurred with the loss of 3 lives.

 

Now when I say that the Egyptians are vague on responsibility...they have a track record of trying to place 100% blame on everyone/everything else but themselves. There have been several tragedies in recent years where accountability has been shifted from the Egyptians to either the item or personnel nearby...despite investigations showing the exact opposite.

 

An extremely tragic case is that of EgyptAir 990...background to which can be easily googled...and that of Flash Airlines 604 that crashed into the sea off Sharm el Sheikh, again it can be googled for more information.

 

So it does not surprise me at all, sadly, that the Egyptian authorities would prefer their personnel to be cleared of all blame in this tragedy.

 

Recriminations at this point are of no use, apportioning blame will come much later....at this stage it is just a very tragic accident arising from a combination of bad weather & misfortune...something that no-one could have foreseen.

 

Having had many years dealing with the Egyptian government, I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment.

 

Al

[ILov2cruise]

Which I think stems from parent Carnival which is out maxamize revenue first and passenger satisfaction second.

 

 

 

I don't agree.

 

You can say the same for all cruise lines.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

y

[kennicott]

Unfortunately the Egyptians can be a little vague when it comes to taking responsibility when things go awry.

 

Now when I say that the Egyptians are vague on responsibility...they have a track record of trying to place 100% blame on everyone/everything else but themselves. There have been several tragedies in recent years where accountability has been shifted from the Egyptians to either the item or personnel nearby...despite investigations showing the exact opposite.

 

So it does not surprise me at all, sadly, that the Egyptian authorities would prefer their personnel to be cleared of all blame in this tragedy.

 

So you say old chap?

 

Sort of harkens us all back to the day of which began in London on April 23 1912 when the Lord Chancellor appointed a wreck Commissioner under the Merchant Shipping Act. The man, Baron Mersey of Toxteth, a Liverpool man, this “Lord Mersey” oversaw a tribunal which the word “whitewash” was commonly applied to even before the inquiry ended. Newsworthiness of the investigation was not diminished even by the American inquiry already in full swing led by Senator William Alden Smith, a U.S. Senator from Michigan, which had already terribly embarrassed the British and their domination of maritime safety standards. The inquiry? “Proceedings on a Formal Investigation into the Loss of the SS Titanic” and “Report on the Loss of the SS Titanic” Or does it?

 

No, let not paranoia reign supreme here and let us not run in circles, screaming and shouting, blaming others we might distain for whatever reason, like the Egyptians and Carnival Cruise Corp. All this vitriol rhetoric before we even know what happened?

 

I agree with Ilove2cruise response to Savoia in which Savoia said: "Which I think stems from parent Carnival which is out maxamize revenue first and passenger satisfaction second."

 

Ilove2cruise: "I don't agree."

 

Ilove2cruise: "You can say the same for all cruise lines."

 

Right on Ilove2cruise. ;)

[B744]

You do have to wonder if the captain was transferred from the parent, Carnival, and was responsible for the recent Carnival ships...Ecstacy, Miracle & Splendor...which belted quaysides resulting in holed ships and quay damage over the last few weeks.

 

Something is very wrong if these ships are belting quays so often and so close together too (timewise).

 

Bad weather shouldn't be that much of a problem and if the winds are so high, then it begs the question why go ahead and try to berth. captain or pilot...someone has questions to answer on this one (and all the others in the last couple of months).

 

I must have missed the Ecstacy, but as far as I am aware, it's the Legend in Cozumel, Mexico and the Miracle in St Kitts that were involved. The Splendor was never involved in a pier mishap.

[Goldryder]

I must have missed the Ecstacy, but as far as I am aware, it's the Legend in Cozumel, Mexico and the Miracle in St Kitts that were involved. The Splendor was never involved in a pier mishap.

 

Carnival Splendor hit the quay in Puerto Vallarta on December 17, 2009

 

http://picasaweb.google.com/WannaCruize/20091217#5416240010219435010

 

Ecstacy reversed into the quayside in Galveston a few weeks ago, her stern contacted the main passenger gangway causing damage.

[B744]

Carnival Splendor hit the quay in Puerto Vallarta on December 17, 2009

 

http://picasaweb.google.com/WannaCruize/20091217#5416240010219435010

 

Ecstacy reversed into the quayside in Galveston a few weeks ago, her stern contacted the main passenger gangway causing damage.

 

Thanks Ally, I stand corrected on the Carnival Splendor.

[ILov2cruise]

How can it be the captains fault whn th harbor polit docks th ship???

 

Don't know just asking.

[Goldryder]

Discussions tween Costa & Thomson today regarding Europa's transfer date...

 

http://www.ttglive.com/c/portal/layout?p_l_id=3208370&CMPI_SHARED_articleId=3763290&CMPI_SHARED_ImageArticleId=3763290&CMPI_SHARED_articleIdRelated=3763290&CMPI_SHARED_ToolsArticleId=3763290&CMPI_SHARED_CommentArticleId=3763290&articleTitle=Damage%20to%20Thomson%27s%20ship%20could%20affect%20launch

 

Not sounding too good....the damage is extensive.

[G.M.T.]

Some more info about the Europa:

 

http://www.cruise-community.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2223:passengers-repatriated-costa-europa-repairs-continue-&catid=910:featuredstories&Itemid=69

 

Ron

[PaulMCO]

How can it be the captains fault whn th harbor polit docks th ship???

 

Don't know just asking.

 

Because the Captain is ultimately responsible. He can overrule the pilot -- but this rarely happens.

[Goldryder]

More details have emerged regarding the damage and repair schedule for Costa Europa. Costa said there was damage to one watertight compartment of the Europa’s hull area. Some crew cabins and parts of the engine room were damaged, too. Repairs will be completed over the next month in Palermo, Italy. U.K.-based Thomson Cruises is slated to charter the 25-year-old, 1,488-passenger Europa for a 10-year term, beginning in April. Costa said it is confident that repairs will be completed within 30 days.

[CruisingChics]

Perhaps all those that moan when a Captain announces that he will not be docking due to weather conditions will remember this next time instead of complaining bitterly and demanding recompense !!

 

AMEN......!!!

 

I am a crew member on a different line. It's difficult to view these photos. But unfortunately, this is the reality. These ships are so huge, the wind hits alongside out-of-nowhere.

I just came off a ship going 'round Cape Horn and the coast of Chile, between Rio and Valparaiso, the past 4 months. The entire 4 months I was onboard, we experienced extreme gusts of wind, in various ports, and while at sea.

This wind was measured at 50-60-70 knots, we were all tipping over, we were running to catch plates, wine glasses, you name it, it was all going over... We were all walking crooked. Water bottles fell from the top of my dresser to the floor. Bottles of soap in the shower fell out of their trays and burst open. Wine bottles could be heard crashing in all the restaurants. People were running in the gift shops to save merchandise. Outdoor decks were closed and sports equipment locked up. This was as bad as being caught in a hurricane... which I'd experienced in 1999.

 

Weather like this is not enjoyable at sea but we also missed many ports due to the Captain MAKING THE DECISION not to go alongside. And MANY GUESTS WERE VERY MAD FOR IT.

"I came on this itinerary strictly for Montevideo" I overheard someone say. Because they had already been to Rio and Buenos Aires.

"I came on this itinerary strictly for the Falkland Islands" I overheard someone say. "If you know you're only going to make it half the time, why is it part of the itinerary?"

Why don't people read the find print on their booking details??? "WEATHER PENDING" !!!!!!!!!

 

Last month, we missed a call at Montevideo during one cruise and Stanley Falkland Islands on the next (tenders required). Almost missed Punta Arenas (known for the wind) and also almost missed a call on Puerto Montt (tenders required). We had terrible terrible seas from Buenos Aires to Ushuaia. Calm seas at Cape Horn. Reverse from what we normally expect. The winds were fierce and we were all very aware of what was going on in the air and ocean around us.

 

The safety of the guests and crew is ALWAYS the first priority, NOT the $$ to be made on shore excursions!!! How dare anyone to suggest that this was the Captain's aim!!

 

Gusts of wind (or even wave surges) such as this indeed "come out of nowhere" and if the attitude by a Captain or pilot were as such, to say, "Let's take the chance, let's let the people take their tours, what real damage can wind or rough seas do since we're just about alongside now...??"

 

Do you REALLY think the Captain would have said, "Sure, let's take the chance"..... REALLY??????????

 

Who can predict such forces of nature??

[Savoia]

How dare anyone to suggest that this was the Captain's aim!!

 

Then all that sensitive bridge equipent isn't worth the money paid for it then. Carnival has had 6 major accidents in as many months...sorry, I can not believe this is just Carnival reaching a statistical impossibility. I firmly believe Carnival management plays a role in these accidents happening..to maximize revenue.

[cruise1814]

Then all that sensitive bridge equipent isn't worth the money paid for it then. Carnival has had 6 major accidents in as many months...sorry, I can not believe this is just Carnival reaching a statistical impossibility. I firmly believe Carnival management plays a role in these accidents happening..to maximize revenue.

Ok did you have a bad experience or somthing with Carnival? We get it you dont like Carnival!! Why do you keep Bashing Carnival in every one of your post????

[j2ink]

This person sounds like a broken record, and obviously has some sort of vendetta against Carnival's several cruise lines.

 

First of all, not all of these recent accidents were "major." Second, Carnival is larger than all of the other cruise lines combined, so the statistical probability of it having accidents is much higher than any other cruise line, and more than equal to all of the others combined. Although I haven't analyzed it, there could be other reasons for higher risk, such as the weather and other conditions at the Carnival ports of call.

 

[Rysyonok]

This is very sobering and sad news. My prayers go out to the affected families.

 

Cruising Chics, thank you for sharing your experiences.

 

j2ink, I agree. Carnival is a bigger target and thus is much more visible. A gash in one of their vessels might get more attention than another line's ship sinking altogether (Concordia, anyone?)

[Savoia]

This is very sobering and sad news. My prayers go out to the affected families.

 

Cruising Chics, thank you for sharing your experiences.

 

j2ink, I agree. Carnival is a bigger target and thus is much more visible. A gash in one of their vessels might get more attention than another line's ship sinking altogether (Concordia, anyone?)

 

They've had one accident a month for the past half year...all of which Carnival blames on the weather. I thought all that sensitive bridge equipment was to give the bridge a clear view of what is around them..apparently not.

 

Keep in mind NO other cruise lines has had six collisions in six months, none, five on Carnival and one with Costa. We are starting to get a picture of Carnival corporate which wants to sweep these incidents under the rug and make them go away.

 

I have never seen a company with this high level of indifference to its operations and passengers.

[B744]

AMEN......!!!

 

I am a crew member on a different line. It's difficult to view these photos. But unfortunately, this is the reality. These ships are so huge, the wind hits alongside out-of-nowhere.

 

Weather like this is not enjoyable at sea but we also missed many ports due to the Captain MAKING THE DECISION not to go alongside. And MANY GUESTS WERE VERY MAD FOR IT.

"I came on this itinerary strictly for Montevideo" I overheard someone say. Because they had already been to Rio and Buenos Aires.

"I came on this itinerary strictly for the Falkland Islands" I overheard someone say. "If you know you're only going to make it half the time, why is it part of the itinerary?"

Why don't people read the find print on their booking details??? "WEATHER PENDING" !!!!!!!!!

 

The safety of the guests and crew is ALWAYS the first priority, NOT the $$ to be made on shore excursions!!! How dare anyone to suggest that this was the Captain's aim!!

 

Do you REALLY think the Captain would have said, "Sure, let's take the chance"..... REALLY??????????

 

Who can predict such forces of nature??

 

CruisingChics, there are many unreasonable people cruising. They will get mad at the Captain for skipping a port they really chose the itinerary for. Had the Captain decide to chance it, and some of those passengers got hurt or died, they would be mad at him and the cruise line too.

 

I was on the Ruby Princess' 3 night Caribbean Sampler from Ft Lauderdale on Dec 17, 2009. We had gale force winds all three days at sea. Our only stop was supposed to be Princess Cays, but the Captain wisely decided to remain at see because the water was too rough to tender(tenders are required at Princess Cays). Fortunately, I did not hear anybody complain(that does not mean no one did), but all you have to do is look out your window and observe the sea conditions. I expected we would miss Princess Cays, and that was why I took that cruise as I've never been there before, but the sea conditions were too dangerous to go ashore.

 

The cruise was great though as Princess had a Plan B, and did a fantastic job of keeping us occupied and happy.

[kennicott]

I have never seen a company with this high level of indifference to its operations and passengers.

 

I would suggest consulting the "Berlitz Guide to Cruising". Their ratings certainly do not reflect your opinion. Carnival Corp. lines take the highest ratings, more often than not in all categories.

 

Obviously Savoi has an ulterior motive for denigrating Carnival Corp. Perhaps they irritated him in some way in the past. But he is dead wrong in making negative safety allegations and issuing radicalized judgments. Play the demagogue if you must but don’t slander.

During some of our past sailing experiences (a few more weeks on the high seas and we will hit the year mark, 365 days of sailing) we sometimes find many of our traveling companions, as well as ourselves, placing negative aspersions upon the current trip or this or that line.

 

Almost all of our travel has been on HAL and Princess. Both are owned by Carnival Corp. Nowadays a frequent criticism is that once Carnival took over, things went to hell. To be frank, when I honestly look back over the past and consider all aspects, both lines have improved since we first began cruising. 1989.

 

I recall reading and listening to many negative things about the Regal Princess. We were booked on her for 35 days. As embarkation day drew near I was getting sort of depressed from all bad stuff I was hearing. We boarded in Yokohama. My wife was getting our things unpacked, so I did a solo reconnaissance of the vessel, to my pleasant surprise I found almost all the negatives from the rhetoric were either exaggerated or falsehoods. I was pleased. So I stopped by the little “Hole in the Wall” bar and ordered a drink. I told the bartender that I was impressed with the ship. The only other customer was a guy at the other end who had been sucking them down. He said “I hate this ship, they should put a torpedo in it and sink it right now, I would be happy, only reason I’m on here is my wife wanted to come.” Who or what could have really made a dude of that mind happy anyway? Chuckle.

 

So, regardless of the negative hype, we are really looking forward to our next voyage, May 16th.

[Savoia]

Obviously Savoi has an ulterior motive for denigrating Carnival Corp. Perhaps they irritated him in some way in the past. But he is dead wrong in making negative safety allegations and issuing radicalized judgments. Play the demagogue if you must but don’t slander.

 

No outside motive, in this case just tallying up all the collisions Carnival has been involved in for the past six months. One of the purposes in today's cruise ship bridge is the ability to see weather patterns..and while some of these may have been too sudden for the crew to react properly to given the readouts the computers were giving. It is highly improbable that all of these are simply accidents, the odds of this are stacked against Carnival. I firmly believe these accidents are, in part, Carnival's need to keep revenue at a certain level at all times. You say Carnival would not do this..but exactly how many years was Carnival using the Destiny with a damaged propulsion system? Answer: several years. And during that time cruise after cruise was modified and changed due to the ship's inability to be run properly. When questioned Carnival consistently said any modification was not related to the propulsion. Yet when finally drydocked the reason for: propulsion issues. What made Carnival look even worse...their Corporate communications Deprtment saying the drydock happened from issues "that occured last week".

 

So to say the company is not underhanded is your opinion, not mine.

[Savoia]

Second, Carnival is larger than all of the other cruise lines combined, so the statistical probability of it having accidents is much higher than any other cruise line

 

 

And so far one each month...an industry first. The accidents are far from cheap to the bottom line.

[ILov2cruise]

Did Carnival fire you, did something happen on a Carnival corp ship???

 

Almost all your post are nothing more than Carnival corp. bashing.

 

Cunard, Princess, Carnival, Hal, P & O, Costa you have bashed them all.

[Rysyonok]

They've had one accident a month for the past half year...all of which Carnival blames on the weather. I thought all that sensitive bridge equipment was to give the bridge a clear view of what is around them..apparently not.

 

Does Carnival have anything like RCL's weather emergency response war-rooms (I'm sure I butchered the proper term :( )?

 

Also I'd be curious to see if cruise line accident data correlates to freighter / tanker accident data... I don't think docking / weather issues are for pax ships only...

[cruise1814]

Did Carnival fire you, did something happen on a Carnival corp ship???

 

Almost all your post are nothing more than Carnival corp. bashing.

 

Cunard, Princess, Carnival, Hal, P & O, Costa you have bashed them all.

 

I wondered the samething he will never understand that Carnival is the largest cruise line out there so there chances of having an accident is Much Higher then other cruise lines. 90% of his posts are bashing Carnival.

 

Savoia What did Carnival ever do to you???

[Presto2]

Let's not turn this into a debate about a cruise line - Have just read this thread for the first time and shuddered at the photographs and the info about crew who have died .............

 

Have just arrived home a day late from a holiday after a flight was cancelled by a pilot --- I just trust that anyone in charge of a ship has the same credibility.

 

Whatever ----------- if you stop and think about the crew that died and their families it should stop the bickering about who said what about what cruise line and why .............

 

Very sad - and words aren't enough