Told no downgrade with ES...true?

[TexasGLS]

I was just told by my pvp that I could not pay the 50pp fee and downgrade rooms on the same sailing with early saver? I can't find that anywhere in the contract, has anyone else been told this?

[gargoyle999]

This is correct. No downgrade with ES. You would have to cancel and then rebook the same cruise, and pay the $50/pp penalty.

[firefly333]

Yes, Iv been told that is true too. You can only upgrade, so get the lowest possible cabin you would be happy with and if prices drop, or freegrades, then use them to get a better cabin.

 

Good point, they really do need to put this in their rules and be specific about the rules in writing. I accidently booked a 6C and then wanted to book a 6B instead and told nope too late, cant be changed, unless you forfeit your deposit, then you can pay the $50 to change, and then downgrade if you are still before final payment ..

 

... so by cancelling there are ways to downgrade by paying the $50 ...and then have to get permission to apply the rest of the deposit to the new deposit from a supervisor, otherwise it will be applied to the final payment.

[firefly333]

This is correct. No downgrade with ES. You would have to cancel and then rebook the same cruise, and pay the $50/pp penalty.

 

yep, thats how I was thinking is the only way to do this ... but then they actually will ask for a whole new deposit ... so its a lot of work .. but it can be done, I agree. Thats the only way to do it.

 

Again this would only work before final payment.

 

I think Carnival put this rule into place to keep folks from seeing a better price say on a guarantee and being able to downgrade to get the lower price.

[gargoyle999]

Good point, they really do need to put this in their rules and be specific about the rules in writing.

 

Agree. I just checked out the FAQ on carnival and it does not say anything about no downgrade. Really should be there.

[gargoyle999]

I just checked out the cruise contract as well. It only mentions Early Saver in passing with a footnote that the deposit is non refundable. No details at all about Early Saver.

 

Where is it spelled out? Hmm...... :confused:

[Ken076]

I was just told by my pvp that I could not pay the 50pp fee and downgrade rooms on the same sailing with early saver? I can't find that anywhere in the contract, has anyone else been told this?

 

You cannot downgrade with Early Saver. ken

[Ken076]

This is correct. No downgrade with ES. You would have to cancel and then rebook the same cruise, and pay the $50/pp penalty.

 

You can cancel and book another cruise (at the current rate) with $50pp penalty, but I'm doubting that they'll let you rebook the same cruise - the ES Terms & conditions state "for ship and/or sail date changes made prior to the final payment due date" meaning you'd have to change the ship and/or date. That doesn't mean you might not be able to get a cooperative agent to make the change for you. ken

[firefly333]

You cannot downgrade with Early Saver. ken

 

but where does it say this ... just a unwritten rule?? How can you enforce a unwritten rule anyway??

[Ken076]

but where does it say this ... just a unwritten rule?? How can you enforce a unwritten rule anyway??

 

I didn't say it was written (just like many of their Early Saver quirks aren't written) or even implied - it's just the Policy they've adopted.

 

The only thing they HAVE to honor is anything specified in the ES Terms & Conditions, anything else isn't binding or required. Their Policy is apparently to let us Upgrade by paying the difference (not stated anywhere or required by Terms & conditions) and to not let us downgrade (not written anywhere or required by Terms & conditions, altho I could make a weak case that this is implied by the condition that you can only make ship and sailing date changes and therefore cannot re-book your cruise, and therefore can't re-book to a different, lower, category).

 

ken

[gargoyle999]

The only thing they HAVE to honor is anything specified in the ES Terms & Conditions

 

Anyone know if there are ES terms and conditions in writing? I can only find the FAQ which hardly is a legal document.

[gargoyle999]

I'd like to make a weak case that it is implied that you can downgrade since it is not specified that you cannot and they allow upgrades without penalty. Thus cabin category changes are allowed under ES on the same ship and sailing without penalty. :)

[firefly333]

I'd like to make a weak case that it is implied that you can downgrade since it is not specified that you cannot and they allow upgrades without penalty. Thus cabin category changes are allowed under ES on the same ship and sailing without penalty. :)

 

Im laughing out loud ... for real.

 

I think how can they tell me .. you can always upgrade without penalty, but cant downgrade.

 

... and argued with me I couldnt move from a 1A to a IS which is NOT a downgrade per my PVP because you cant get a 1A from a IS, and its always lower in price .. I should have gotten $100 OBC from the move which was not allowed me. They did however upgrade me to a higher inside cabin and give me some OBC kind of as a compromise maybe?? Made no sense.

 

So, believe me the rules are flexible and they should be in writing.

[Ken076]

Anyone know if there are ES terms and conditions in writing? I can only find the FAQ which hardly is a legal document.

 

http://www.carnival.com/cms/fun/earlysaver/default.aspx bottom of the page (elsewhere defined as Terms & conditions). Similar (more condensed) verbage actually occurs toward the end of Cruise confirmation document.

 

ken

[Cruise, J.D.]

Anyone know if there are ES terms and conditions in writing? I can only find the FAQ which hardly is a legal document.

 

Early Saver:

Cruise rates are in US dollars, per person, based on double occupancy, capacity controlled and subject to change at any time without prior notice. Government taxes and fees are additional for all guests. A non-refundable and non-transferable deposit is required at the time of booking for all guests to secure confirmed accommodations. Fares are backed by a unique price protection policy. Full names are required for each guest. Offer is valid for new bookings only and is not combinable with any other discounted or promotional offer. Available on sailings 3 months prior to sail date for short cruises (5 days or less) and available on sailings 5 months prior to sail date for long cruises (6 days or longer). Savings are based on Fun Select rates and vary by sailings. Category restrictions and exclusions apply. No name changes are allowed. A $50 service fee will be assessed per person for ship and/or sail date changes made prior to the final payment due date. Cancellation penalties apply. Request Early Saver. Ships' Registry: The Bahamas & Panama.

 

http://www.carnival.com/cms/fun/earlysaver/default.aspx

 

The above T&Cs are found when you follow the hyperlink concerning the ES rate in the booking process. Legally, it would probably be considered incorporated by reference into the booking contract. The FAQs are also present on that link, so arguably they form part of the booking contract too.

 

There appears to be enough ambiguity in the terms that Carnival could argue it prohibits downgrades. But I agree that there is nothing specific.

[Ken076]

Im laughing out loud ... for real.

 

I think how can they tell me .. you can always upgrade without penalty, but cant downgrade.

 

... and argued with me I couldnt move from a 1A to a IS which is NOT a downgrade per my PVP because you cant get a 1A from a IS, and its always lower in price .. I should have gotten $100 OBC from the move which was not allowed me. They did however upgrade me to a higher inside cabin and give me some OBC kind of as a compromise maybe?? Made no sense.

 

So, believe me the rules are flexible and they should be in writing. ABSOLUTELY!!!!!

 

I made a brief, concise list of Early Saver and 110% Price Protection Guarantee undocumented "Quirks" that are the subject of thousands of Cruise Critic (and Carnival Connections) posts, and sent them to VP/Staff that I've been occasionally corresponding with, and suggested "Why Not Put a Policy Statement for These Frequent Irritants in Writing, Preferably Expanding the Terms & Conditions, and Reduce the Angst Among Us Customers" -- I haven't had a response and haven't seen any changes anywhere.

 

ken

[firefly333]

http://www.carnival.com/cms/fun/earlysaver/default.aspx

 

The above T&Cs are found when you follow the hyperlink concerning the ES rate in the booking process. Legally, it would probably be considered incorporated by reference into the booking contract. The FAQs are also present on that link, so arguably they form part of the booking contract too.

 

There appears to be enough ambiguity in the terms that Carnival could argue it prohibits downgrades. But I agree that there is nothing specific.

 

My PVP thinks the undocumented rule is Carnival is ok if it costs more money so thats why they have a unwritten rule you can always upgrade, but cant downgrade.

 

I could understand you and ken saying, ok it says no changes, which means no changes, up or down, but they say you can always upgrade, you can never downgrade ... thats where they lost me .. cant come to that myself from the rules.

[Ken076]

http://www.carnival.com/cms/fun/earlysaver/default.aspx

 

The above T&Cs are found when you follow the hyperlink concerning the ES rate in the booking process. Legally, it would probably be considered incorporated by reference into the booking contract. The FAQs are also present on that link, so arguably they form part of the booking contract too.

 

There appears to be enough ambiguity in the terms that Carnival could argue it prohibits downgrades. But I agree that there is nothing specific.

 

The FAQ's aren't particularly binding (but aren't very informative anyway), but the Terms & Conditions are (somewhat) included at the end of the Booking confirmation. It's also irritating that they don't even refer to them as "Early Saver" conditions, just as Conditions (or whatever term they use.

 

ken

[firefly333]

maybe we should just shut up ... if people push hard enough, they could change it to no cabin changes at all, you are stuck with whatever you book. no changes period...

[gargoyle999]

maybe we should just shut up ...

 

Time for a class action lawsuit! :p

[G'ma]

I was just told by my pvp that I could not pay the 50pp fee and downgrade rooms on the same sailing with early saver? I can't find that anywhere in the contract, has anyone else been told this?

 

Any downgrade would be a cancel and rebook for your reservation. Under the rules of the fare, your deposit would be held for a FUTURE cruise, less the 50.00 fee. The remaining amount being held can only be used towards final payment of the new booking....cannot be used as a deposit.

 

The rules say you can change ship or sailing date......not category changes on the same sailing date.....

 

• What if I need to make changes to my ship or sailing date?

Ship and sailing date changes are allowed prior to the final payment due date, subject to a $50 service fee per person, per change. Changes made after the final payment due date are subject to standard cancellation penalties.

[G'ma]

I just checked out the cruise contract as well. It only mentions Early Saver in passing with a footnote that the deposit is non refundable. No details at all about Early Saver.

 

Where is it spelled out? Hmm...... :confused:

 

It's all in the FAQ's:

 

http://www.carnival.com/CMS/FAQs/EarlySaver.aspx

 

and here:

 

http://www.carnival.com/cms/fun/earlysaver/default.aspx

[G'ma]

but where does it say this ... just a unwritten rule?? How can you enforce a unwritten rule anyway??

 

 

It's not "unwritten"....

 

http://www.carnival.com/CMS/FAQs/EarlySaver.aspx

[firefly333]

Any downgrade would be a cancel and rebook for your reservation. Under the rules of the fare' date=' your deposit would be held for a FUTURE cruise, less the 50.00 fee. The remaining amount being held can only be used towards final payment of the new booking....cannot be used as a deposit.

 

The rules say you can change ship or sailing date......not category changes on the same sailing date.....

 

[b']• What if I need to make changes to my ship or sailing date?[/b]

Ship and sailing date changes are allowed prior to the final payment due date, subject to a $50 service fee per person, per change. Changes made after the final payment due date are subject to standard cancellation penalties.

 

OK so where in the rules does it say you can upgrade, with no fee, but a downgrade is a $50 fee before final payment date .. I missed that part?

[G'ma]

Anyone know if there are ES terms and conditions in writing? I can only find the FAQ which hardly is a legal document.

 

It isn't a matter of being legal or not.....it is about the RULES on the ES fare.....

 

The FAQ spells it out clearly, concisely and in very understandable terms.