Tips or Gratuities

[anngie]

This is the policy of a cruise line which will I will not name. I think this policy is very clear. The official tipping policy is that tips are optional at the discretion of the passenger. It was emphasized on board during a travel agents seminar that the official policy is that tipping is not required. Tips are not charged to the passengers on board accounts and tip envelopes are not distributed to the cabins the last day of the cruise. If a passenger wishes to tip a staff member for outstanding service they must go to the reception desk and ask for a tip envelope. All tips must be in cash and cannot be charged to your on board account.This cruise lines states that all staff members are paid a higher than average salary and do not have to depend on tips as part of the “wage”. The flip side of this policy is that you don’t get those cute towel animals in your cabin and the level of service is less personal.

Most everyone likes to tip for good service. Maybe other cruise lines such as Holland America should follow this example.

[sail7seas]

About which cruise line are you speaking? Why would you not have stated which one in your post?

 

For a great many years, the tipping policy on HAL was Tipping not Required.

 

 

You would be shocked how many folks found it very easy to simply walk away and tip the crew absolutely nothing. We saw this cruise after cruise. They claimed the policy was confusing to them.

 

I think you know the new policy which HAL instituted during this last year.

If you do not know and wish for someone to explain it, just ask. There have been a great many threads about it.

[anngie]

MSC is the cruise line. I did not mention it because I did not want it to seem that I was advertising for them.

I wonder if people did not tip because their travel agents misunderstood the policy.

[sail7seas]

No....I think not.

 

 

The Cruise Director always explained the policy in very clear langauge. It was not confusing in the least.... Unless one wished to use it as an 'excuse' to salve their conscience for 'stiffing the crew'.

JMHO, of course.

 

 

I am sure I am dumb but what is MSC? Thank you.

[Pudgesmom]

We did not tip on Holland America before the current policy. We were not regular cruisers and had no idea "tipping not required" meant, "most people are leaving one, and if you don't, you're a shmuck." I wish they had made it more clear. We would never leave a restaurant without tipping, excepting exceptionally poor service. In fact, we thought that the crew was just paid a higher wage.

 

Please don't jump on previous non-tippers. I think the fault lies with Holland America for a very unclear policy on this one.

 

Sail, I must add that we never attend any of the cruise director's speeches, as we are under the impression that they were advertisments for products for sale.

 

Beth

[anngie]

MSC is Mediterranean Shipping Company. They are an Italian Cruise Line whose ships sail from Port Everglades in the winter. MSC is the largest commercial shipping line in the world. They have a lovely new ship, Opera.

We have sailed on the MSC Melody once. We did tip our cabin steward and our waiters.

[Globaliser]

We did not tip on Holland America before the current policy. We were not regular cruisers and had no idea "tipping not required" meant, "most people are leaving one, and if you don't, you're a shmuck." I wish they had made it more clear.

This, IMHO, was why the old HAL tipping policy eventually came unstuck. When they said "tipping not required", they failed to make clear that it meant "tipping is still expected".

 

A cruise line that says "tipping not required" and means "tipping is neither needed nor expected, because we've already paid the crew everything they would expect to get by way of tips on other cruise lines" would be doing themselves a great favour.

[doone]

The tipping not required was always explained in the Know Before You Go booklet in your documents. I never had a problem understanding the old tipping policy and I have no problem understanding the new one.

 

I remember a thread maybe a year ago where some newbies and some veterans to HAL wanted to have the tips added onto the shipboard account, well folks, that's what has happened, and there are still unhappy people!!!!!!! I guess what my grandmother has always told me, you will never please everyone all of the time, so do what you feel is right at the time.

[sail7seas]

 

Sail, I must add that we never attend any of the cruise director's speeches, as we are under the impression that they were advertisments for products for sale.

 

[/Quote]

 

 

The Cruise Director's 'speech' I reference is his Disembarkation Talk given at the end of the cruise.

 

During the talk, he explains the procedure for going from ship to shore and has always explained Tipping.....or Tipping not Required. I cannot imagine what you thought he was selling. :)

[Oceanwench]

This, IMHO, was why the old HAL tipping policy eventually came unstuck. When they said "tipping not required", they failed to make clear that it meant "tipping is still expected".

 

A cruise line that says "tipping not required" and means "tipping is neither needed nor expected, because we've already paid the crew everything they would expect to get by way of tips on other cruise lines" would be doing themselves a great favour.

 

I have to agree with your view on this topic.

Before I sailed on HAL in 2003, being a HAL newbie, I read the various cruise message boards constantly.

One of the most frequently discussed matters was that of tipping. Seemed as though no one could agree to what "no tipping required" meant.

Even when I got my docs and read the "Know Before You Go" booklet, I was still confused.

And the CD's disembarkation talk didn't help me understand the tipping issue at all.

I purchased envelopes while in port and put cash tips in them to distribute. I had no guidelines to follow as to a suggested $ amount pp/day, so I wasn't sure just what would be a good tip.

I was amazed at the number of dining room regulars who did not show up on the last night -- I had to think some of them were stiffing the servers.

 

As Globaliser states, the policy was more or less "tipping is not required, but expected" in those days.

 

Now with the $10/pp/day automatically added to the bill, things can still get confusing.

Are additional tips expected? Or is $140 enough for DH & me to pay for the wonderful HAL service we received?

We gave extra tips on our last HAL cruise ... seemed it was the right thing to do.

[trubey]

quote] I was amazed at the number of dining room regulars who did not show up on the last night -- I had to think some of them were stiffing the servers.[unquote.

 

What do you make of the situation WE encountered?

 

The last day and night of the cruise, our regular cabin steward and dining room attendants were conspicuously absent! Our cabin was made up, after a fashion, and meals were served, after a fashion, but nowhere were our efficient steward, Nawan, or our Head Waiter (whose name escapes me) to be found.

 

When we asked what was going on, we got a nice smile and a bobbing of the head which seemed to say, "Yes, sir." and nothing else.

 

Lane

[doone]

I have never had a problem finding my dining room steward and my cabin steward made up the room efficiently. Wonder what happened on your cruise?

 

This last cruise on the Rotterdam, they closed the Lido for dinner, which I thought was a good idea. The dining room was filled, didn't see an empty table anywhere.

[Oceanwench]

Trubey,

 

The number of empty tables on the last night -- when people traditonally hand out tips to the dining room staff [at least pre-automatic tip -- was very noticeable.

I mentioned the fact to my husband, who has much more experience in cruising than I.

He told me that it frequently happens on the last night, b/c people don't want to tip.

 

I can't believe that so many people decided to head to the Lido or Pinnacle on the last night ...

 

After reading this and other cruise-related message boards, I learned from more experienced cruisers that it is, indeed, some people's practice to avoid the dining room on the last night.

 

As for "disappearing" waiters/cabin stewards, I did not have that problem.

Our wonderful cabin steward on the Oosterdam was shaking our hand and wishing us well as we left to disembark.

[sail7seas]

DH and I often commented when we saw empty tables in the dining room the last evening.

 

 

 

Well, this cruise OUR table was empty. I was ill and could not possibly have come to the dining room and BELIEVE me, they most assuredly did not want me there.

 

Anyone looking at our empty table would have thought....hmmm, look at that. Those folks were usually here (we were absent a few nights for Pinnacle and Suite dinner), but tonight they are 'stiffing the crew'.

 

No....we weren't stiffing the crew.

 

DH came to the dining room specifically to look for our stewards so that he could say thank you, good-bye and tip them although he did not have his dinner there.

 

I guess I learned to not judge.......one never knows the 'whole story'.

[Oceanwench]

Um ... I notice a lot of *judging* done on these boards.

 

That being said ... on our last cruise, which was after the automatic tipping was in place, I did not notice a lot of empty tables in the dining room. If I noticed one or two, I would not have *judged* the missing occupants.

 

But on the cruise to which I referred in a previous post, I noticed the empty tables because there were so many of them.

One couldn't help but notice ... as in, "Gee, are we really early, no one is here!"

 

I, being the inexperienced cruiser, was puzzled.

DH, being the experienced cruiser, gave me his opinion.

That opinion has been reinforced time and again on this and other cruise message boards.

[anngie]

The last Holland America cruise we were were on was in December. What difference does it make now whether you show up in the dining room or not on the last night of the cruise? The tips are already automatically to your shipboard account. We were never thanked by any of the crew who got their tips and really did not expect to be. I think the new tipping system is only a service charge. That was my point of posting the other cruise line's policy.

It seems a lot better system to me for the cruise line just to say that they are paying the crew well already, that tipping is optional and if you want to reward good service with a tip they will be glad to allow you to do so personally.:)

[DFD1]

Personally, I think MSC is on to something good here.

 

I have often thought HAL would have been better off if they had simply started to build the tips into the cost of the cruise, or present it them as a fixed service charge, and have continued marketing HAL as a "no tipping" or "tipping not required" cruise line.

 

When we first started cruising with HAL several years ago, one of the things that attracted us to HAL was the fact that we hated dealing with the envelopes on the last night. They were a nuisance for us as we were trying to pack and be ready to disembark. These are personal feelings, of course.

[TedC]

I don't recall ever being in a restaurant where tipping was "required." It was never mandated, but certainly was expected, and from my observation just about everybody seems to know enough to tip.

 

Is it something about the sea air that those same people no longer thought that tipping was expected - even though it was not "required"?

 

Duh

[doone]

Tedc, BINGO!!!!!! I couldn't have said it better myself.

[ryansmemom]

I don't recall ever being in a restaurant where tipping was "required." It was never mandated, but certainly was expected, and from my observation just about everybody seems to know enough to tip.

 

Is it something about the sea air that those same people no longer thought that tipping was expected - even though it was not "required"?

 

Duh

 

As I read this thread, I was thinking the very same thing. I may be mistaken, but I have I do not recall anyone being confused about the tipping issue in a land based venue.

 

I know I am sticking my neck out here ;) when I assume that most people on a cruise have some experience patronizing land based restaurants or hotels/motels. I do not know of anyone who has difficulty determining the appropraitness of leaving a tip in these situations. I may be wrong. Please let me know if I am. As far as guidelines, these situations teach us, at the very least, who is customarily the receipeint of tips in our society, on land or at sea.

 

Tipping, for me at least, had always been an expression of my gratitude for services rendered. I have never depended on guidelines. How can anyone possibly know how grateful I feel? How can anyone possibly know to whom I wish to express that gratitude? My experience on land has taught me the basics of who is customerily tipped. The amount is determined by the value I put on their service.

 

However, I have found that on board, people have rendered service to me in ways that I have not found on land. What about those people? The cook who cheerfully grilled my cheeseburger each afternoon? I tipped him. If someone was deserving of a tip, in my opinion, I gave him/her a tip. I did it because it felt good to do so.

 

As far as the auto-tip. I do not mind it. At first I did, but I have rationalized it in this way. When I am on a cruise I am interested in having the best time possible. I am a very generous person. The auto-tip puts more money in the crew's pockets. My experience has been that the level of service has not changed. The only change I did see was due to decreased staff in the dining room. I will continue to tip those I feel are deserving of a tip regardless of their inclusion in the auto-tip process. I am rewarding personal service to me.

 

By the way, the level of service I have received on HAL has always been exceptionally wonderful.

 

Forgive me, but like Ted, I do not understand why the sea air seems to confuse people.

 

**Just a note** Please forgive my spelling and typos. I have the flu and pneumonia.

 

Linda

[peaches from georgia]

Is it something about the sea air that those same people no longer thought that tipping was expected - even though it was not "required"?

Duh

We knew what 'tipping not required' meant because of reading on CC for so long before our first HAL cruise. However, the 2 other couples at our table did NOT know because their different TAs had both told them that tips were INCLUDED in the price of the cruise.

 

These were people who, believe me, knew the protocol of tipping very well and when I informed them what the 'TNR' policy meant, they were truly shocked. And they tipped all their stewards, concierges, etc. very nicely after they understood tipping was not included. They were embarrassed and thankful the subject had come up, but their TAs were to blame for misinforming them.

 

So to blame everyone seen not tipping as being cheap is unfair. Of course, now with the new policy no one has any idea who is tipping and who is not, so there is no judgement of others possible.

[Globaliser]

What do you make of the situation WE encountered?

 

The last day and night of the cruise, our regular cabin steward and dining room attendants were conspicuously absent! Our cabin was made up, after a fashion, and meals were served, after a fashion, but nowhere were our efficient steward, Nawan, or our Head Waiter (whose name escapes me) to be found.

I've no idea whether this might have been the case, but crew who are going on leave (or, more technically, ending a contract) usually go ashore and go home on a passenger turnaround day. So it's just possible that they were all going home the next day, and therefore getting themselves sorted out for that. Not that it always happens, because I've seen many crew still working on their last night before going home, but it's a possibility.

As I read this thread, I was thinking the very same thing. I may be mistaken, but I have I do not recall anyone being confused about the tipping issue in a land based venue.

 

I know I am sticking my neck out here ;) when I assume that most people on a cruise have some experience patronizing land based restaurants or hotels/motels. I do not know of anyone who has difficulty determining the appropraitness of leaving a tip in these situations. I may be wrong. Please let me know if I am. As far as guidelines, these situations teach us, at the very least, who is customarily the receipeint of tips in our society, on land or at sea.

Actually, this is not so. Every time I go to a different country, I have to remind myself what the particular tipping culture is.

 

I spend a lot of time in countries in which you really wouldn't even think of tipping anyone, other than in very exceptional circumstances.

 

Also, I live in a country where great big HEAVY HINTS (often in block capitals) are given when you need to tip because you wouldn't really think of doing so otherwise - eg in the type of restaurant where a tip is expected. In addition, there are certain sorts of tipping (eg bar staff) which are common in the US, but would be regarded as downright insulting if you tried it here.

 

If a cruise line says "tipping not required" and (wrongly) gives the impression that tipping is not expected, either, I don't think that you can necessarily fault passengers who act on that impression.

[heyabbott]

We are relatively experienced vacation travelers and have always left cash on the desk or bed for the maid.

 

We are great restaurant diners and always leave a 20% tip.

 

However, when the restuarant includes the tip on the check, that's what they get, except under incredibly unusual circumstances.

 

I always tip the porter who brings the bags to the room. $5/bag

 

HAL charges a reasonable $10/day/person as a gratuity.

 

MY questions:

 

Do you still leave money daily for the maid?

 

Do you tip your server on every meal?

 

Do you tip the room service porter?

 

Will I even see the baggage porter?

 

If you do all this tipping, what's the $10 a day for and who gets it.

[Jackjenson]

friend who has been on many, many, many cruises, (By the way, HAL is her favorite line) used to say that "tips are included in the price" not "tips are not required", on HAL.

 

She used it as a way to point out the difference in cost back when HAL was significantly more expensive than some other lines for basically the same itinerary. [of course HAL had other nice things that a certain class of cruiser would think worthy of slightly more cost....meaning the nice things had value] but I remember her weighing pros and cons and costs and values with many potential cruisers and saying that gratuities were included in the pricing.

 

Before I get her in trouble though, she always did tip additionally anyway.

[ryansmemom]

We knew what 'tipping not required' meant because of reading on CC for so long before our first HAL cruise. However, the 2 other couples at our table did NOT know because their different TAs had both told them that tips were INCLUDED in the price of the cruise.

 

These were people who, believe me, knew the protocol of tipping very well and when I informed them what the 'TNR' policy meant, they were truly shocked. And they tipped all their stewards, concierges, etc. very nicely after they understood tipping was not included. They were embarrassed and thankful the subject had come up, but their TAs were to blame for misinforming them.

 

So to blame everyone seen not tipping as being cheap is unfair. Of course, now with the new policy no one has any idea who is tipping and who is not, so there is no judgement of others possible.

 

 

I do know that TA's told people that tips were included in HAL cruises. I have friends who are travel agents who did just that and were truly astonished when I told them that it was not true.

 

I did not mean to imply that people were being "cheap" when they did not tip. However, there is an interesting phenomena, psychologically speaking, where upon we generalize knowledge from one situation to another. Most of the time we do generalize, that is how we deal with new situations, it helps reduce anxiety. For example, my behavior in restaurant A, where I have eaten every week will help me know how to behave in restaurant B. This is fine if restaurant A is McDonalds and B is Burger King. However if B is Ruth's Chris, I might be in trouble.

 

However, even if i stay at Motel 6, I leave a few dollars for the maid. That is, however, what I would do. I do not know what any other person would do.

 

Also, many people are not booking thru TA's, but thru the internet. They do not have a TA to give them guidance or misguidance. They do have information provided by the cruiseline included in their documents. Of course, they may or may not read this.

 

Regardless, I do not think people are necessarally "cheap." We cannot know that. We cannot know another person's motivation or intention. We also cannot know if they are confused or unknowledgable. Only they know that.

 

I do not think we have the right to judge people for what they do or do not do. We are simply observing their behavior and trying to make some sense of it. We are also trying to help people who are asking for guidelines regarding a very subjective, personal issue. It's difficult.

 

Linda