HAL Survey-Re: Evening Attire, Mariner Society Rewards, Fly/Cruise

[Cuizer2]

Some people were born with the Embarrassment gene, and are mortified by even just the thought of being found not appropriately dressed for any given occasion. This goes in both directions: underdressed and overdressed. Believe it or not, most of us who really enjoy playing dress up on formal night do not relish the though of being conspicuous.

 

Since when did looking nice go out of style?

 

I used to volunteer at an elementary school. One day a little girl shows up looking like she is ready to greet the queen. I said something like, "Wow, are you getting married this afternoon?" The answer of course was no. So I asked why she was so dressed up. Turns out it was picture day. I told her she looked very pretty. She said thank you.

 

Though I would prefer that formal nights went the way of the dodo bird, I still think that people that are "dressed to the nines" look very nice. I do not think they are "over dressed".

 

Why is it important to look like everyone else? If everyone else jumped off the cliff, would the people who don't want to stand out also jump off the cliff?

 

There is nothing wrong with "over" dressing.

[iancal]

No issue for us. For month long land trips I increase the shirt count to 5 and add two pairs of shorts ,and sometimes delete one of the two pairs of slacks depending on the itinerary. There is no joy in getting on and off trains with stacks of luggage or pulling large suitcases along cobblestone streets or up two flights or more of stairs in a pension or convent.

[RevNeal]

Since when did looking nice go out of style?

 

I used to volunteer at an elementary school. One day a little girl shows up looking like she is ready to greet the queen. I said something like, "Wow, are you getting married this afternoon?" The answer of course was no. So I asked why she was so dressed up. Turns out it was picture day. I told her she looked very pretty. She said thank you.

 

Though I would prefer that formal nights went the way of the dodo bird, I still think that people that are "dressed to the nines" look very nice. I do not think they are "over dressed".

 

Why is it important to look like everyone else? If everyone else jumped off the cliff, would the people who don't want to stand out also jump off the cliff?

 

There is nothing wrong with "over" dressing.

 

:)

My mother grew up dirt-poor during the depression. She spent her first few years of girlhood as the daughter of a poor sharecropper in east Texas living in dirt-floor shack with no electricity. In 1942 the family moved to Dallas and lived in the projects while my grandmother became a "Rosie the Riveter" at North American, making bombers, and my granddad did bookkeeping for a bomb-making plant (he was 4-F due to age and bad eyesight). Mom was a girl and teen-ager in those projects, poor and shy and trying to not stand out or be noticed by her peers because being noticed, or standing out, usually resulted in ridicule or worse. To this day my mother has a terrible self-image, is mortified at the thought of being noticed or standing out, and thinks that everybody else is rich and looking down their noses at her. She, in her own mind, is worthless. Forget that none of that is true; it's how she feels inside. And it's sad.

 

One cannot explain to those who don't suffer from it the feelings that the embarrassment genes generate inside. Suffice it to say, they're real and they're not much fun. Yes, it is possible to be "over dressed" because being over dressed means that one stands out, and when one has grown up in WWII in the Government projects "standing out" means that you are making pretend that you're better than you, or your neighbors, are. It's been 63 years since Mom lived in those projects ... but that kind of thinking is still running through her head. :(

 

Other people on these boards may well have other reasons for these kinds of reactions -- for fearing being over dressed and conspicuous in public. Those are my mother's. I was raised hearing the mantra "fit in ... don't be noticed ... avoid being conspicuous." Growing up as the "fat boy" made it overly important that I not be too conspicuous. It's taken me decades to overcome that up-brining ... and it's has taken RuthC teaching me how to be comfortable being "me." Nevertheless, I agree with her ... if there are no formal nights, I'll not be caught wearing a Tuxedo aboard ship. A jacket and clerics? On Sundays? Sure. But no Tuxedos ... that would be conspicuous and, as my mother would say, "pretentious."

[Opinions]

I can't imagine going on a week long cruise with only 3 shirts and 2 pair of pants. I suppose some people aren't bothered by the thought, but I just can't see myself ever doing that. Hence, I have trouble conceiving of it for others. But ... if you say so.

 

Be that as it may, if one wears a blazer in-transit to and from the ship, and puts a couple of ties in their jacket pockets, and makes one of those shirts which they packed a white dress shirt ... shazaam! ... you've got sufficient clothing to dress for HAL's formal night without actually adding anything significant to one's packing regimen.

 

I wouldn't even think of wearing a blazer on a cab or bus, 5 hour plane trip, bus etc...It obviously works for some but I can't see myself ever doing that.

[RevNeal]

No issue for us. For month long land trips I increase the shirt count to 5 and add two pairs of shorts ,and sometimes delete one of the two pairs of slacks depending on the itinerary. There is no joy in getting on and off trains with stacks of luggage or pulling large suitcases along cobblestone streets or up two flights or more of stairs in a pension or convent.

 

Land trips are very different, I agree. Every trip I lead to Israel I have to repeat the importance of packing ONE medium sized bag and ONE carry-on. NO MORE. Enough rugged clothing for 10 days traipsing around Israel: 3 pair of black jeans, 4 clergy shirts, 12 pair of underwear, a light jacket, hat, several undershirts, assorted other items. We change hotels 3 times on such trips. Who wants to pack and un-pack a lot of stuff???? Land trips, like that, are VERY different than ocean voyages.

 

Sea trips provide the LUXURY of not having to go from hotel to hotel to hotel. You get to the ship and unpack ONCE. Why not enjoy that luxury and pack more?

[RevNeal]

I wouldn't even think of wearing a blazer on a cab or bus, 5 hour plane trip, bus etc...It obviously works for some but I can't see myself ever doing that.

 

Then don't. It's just a suggestion.

I don't WEAR the jacket on the plane ... I hang it or fold it nicely and put it in the overhead.

When traveling in the winter, however, it is NICE having a jacket to wear to the airport and from the airport to the ship. A jacket that I can use elsewhen on the cruise.

[G&G]

Why would that be a factor? The interior of the ship should still be air conditioned, right? White dinner jackets are highly appropriate for warm-weather/tropical cruises. :)

 

I agree with your response except I like to go outside after dinner either on the Lower Promenade or Retreat and do not like to wear suits or tux when it is 85 degrees with 100% humidity. I have lived in Florida all my life, still work with a lot of professionals who do not wear suits to work any longer due to the heat and humidity even though their office spaces are air conditioned.

[Copper10-8]

............... if there are no formal nights, I'll not be caught wearing a Tuxedo aboard ship. A jacket and clerics? On Sundays? Sure. But no Tuxedos ... that would be conspicuous and, as my mother would say, "pretentious."

 

Tuxedos when there are no longer HAL formal nights? No, agreed! But a suit, heck ya! I bring a suit now on every cruise (I rent a tux) and wear it whenever we have dinner at the Pinnacle Grill. And that's on "semi casual" nights. I still wear that same suit afterwards to the show lounge and after that to the Ocean Bar or Crow's Nest. So, to some, I will no doubt appear "conspicuously overdressed". If they don't like it, that their problem! Too busy having a good time to worry about what other think or say

[RevNeal]

I agree with your response except I like to go outside after dinner either on the Lower Promenade or Retreat and do not like to wear suits or tux when it is 85 degrees with 100% humidity. I have lived in Florida all my life, still work with a lot of professionals who do not wear suits to work any longer due to the heat and humidity even though their office spaces are air conditioned.

 

Ah! I understand.

I live in Dallas, where summers with 110 degrees and high humidity are not unknown. :)

 

And I, too, enjoy going outside after dinner for walks on the Lower Promenade to help my dinner settle before bed. If I'm going to go walking after dinner and the show, I'll go back to my cabin, dress in shorts and dark colored t-shirt and walking shoes, then go up and outside and get my exercise. :)

[travelite]

HAL must be doing a random selection.

Have not received one by email or post.

[JimVrhovac]

If they did away with formal night I would have no place to wear "Peppy Le Pew" and I am sure that they would get rather upset.....

 

Any suggestions?????????????????????????????

 

Jim & Ruth

[Cuizer2]

One cannot explain to those who don't suffer from it the feelings that the embarrassment genes generate inside.

 

I agree with you there. I don't understand it and I never will. However, I also make no attempt to tell people how to dress. Frankly, I could careless what someone else is wearing.

 

Also, if formal night is that important to people, there are cruise lines that have a much more formal dress code than HAL does.

 

Ultimately, the officers of HAL (I am referring to the company - not the ship's officers) answer to the stockholders, not the passengers. If HAL believes it can grow its customer base by tweaking the dress code a bit, then the officers of HAL owe a duty to the stockholders to do just that.

[RevNeal]

Tuxedos when there are no longer HAL formal nights? No, agreed! But a suit, heck ya! I bring a suit now on every cruise (I rent a tux) and wear it whenever we have dinner at the Pinnacle Grill. And that's on "semi casual" nights. I still wear that same suit afterwards to the show lounge and after that to the Ocean Bar or Crow's Nest. So, to some, I will no doubt appear "conspicuously overdressed". If they don't like it, that their problem! Too busy having a good time to worry about what other think or say

 

okely-dokely :rolleyes:

[RevNeal]

If they did away with formal night I would have no place to wear "Peppy Le Pew" and I am sure that they would get rather upset.....

 

Any suggestions?????????????????????????????

 

The Peppy Le Pew slippers would get upset?

Wear 'em anyway! I'm sure Peppy doesn't care what the dress code is, so long as your feet are shoved up his behind. :D ;)

[Copper10-8]

okely-dokely :rolleyes:

 

Thanks Rev:D

[RevNeal]

I agree with you there. I don't understand it and I never will. However, I also make no attempt to tell people how to dress. Frankly, I could careless what someone else is wearing.

 

You couldn't care less what someone else is wearing? I can certainly understand that. I don't really care, much, myself, although I have to admit that it does impact the "feel of the evening" when I'm in a Tuxedo but those next to me are in shorts and wife-beater t-shirts (as has happened). in my own defense, in the past I have offered dress code suggestions in an attempt to be helpful so that others don't suffer the embarrassment and humiliation of being turned away from the main dining room for not being sufficiently dressed. My intent, etc., is usually twisted into some ridiculous, nefarious crusade ... so much so that I've come to expect it at every turn.

 

Also, if formal night is that important to people, there are cruise lines that have a much more formal dress code than HAL does.

 

If one doesn't want to participate in formal nights, and would rather have HAL change its code to their liking, "there are cruise lines that have a much" less "formal dress code than HAL does."

 

I have been cruising with HAL since 1994. HAL has a dress code that I'm happy with. I would rather not see it changed any more than it already has been.

 

Ultimately, the officers of HAL (I am referring to the company - not the ship's officers) answer to the stockholders, not the passengers. If HAL believes it can grow its customer base by tweaking the dress code a bit, then the officers of HAL owe a duty to the stockholders to do just that.

 

Didn't I say something much like that a few pages back?

I am not only a passenger, I'm also a Carnival shareholder ... and, yes, I expect HAL to fulfill its fiduciary responsibilities to make money. Thus far, they don't seem to be having too much trouble doing that even with their current dress code. "Tweaking" it won't help.

[RevNeal]

Thanks Rev:D

 

What can I say? I was having a Ned Flanders moment. :)

I didn't realize you rented your Tuxedos. They fit you well.

I usually carry a suit with me on longer cruises, too ... for wearing in the Pinnacle or on a non-formal Sunday night when either duties require me to dress or when I just want to feel "spiffed up."

[Copper10-8]

What can I say? I was having a Ned Flanders moment. :)

I didn't realize you rented your Tuxedos. They fit you well.

I usually carry a suit with me on longer cruises, too ... for wearing in the Pinnacle or on a non-formal Sunday night when either duties require me to dress or when I just want to feel "spiffed up."

 

I have no problems with using "Cruiseline Formalwear", plus it leaves more space in the suitcase and, since I don't wear the infamous blazer/sport coat "in transit" like you do, I can take my inflatable ice chest, mixed drinks blender and coffee machine

[Copper10-8]

............ I don't really care, much, myself, although I have to admit that it does impact the "feel of the evening" when I'm in a Tuxedo but those next to me are in shorts and wife-beater t-shirts (as has happened). ..............

 

Rev, dude! Come on now! ;)

[Cuizer2]

If one doesn't want to participate in formal nights, and would rather have HAL change its code to their liking, "there are cruise lines that have a much" less "formal dress code than HAL does."

 

Yes, and HAL has a buffet which is casual 24/7. And although I don't like formal nights, I'll bring a suit and tie.

 

I have been cruising with HAL since 1994. HAL has a dress code that I'm happy with. I would rather not see it changed any more than it already has been.

 

You are probably not the only one who feels this way. However, there must be a reason that HAL is looking into this. My guess (and it is just that, a guess) is that HAL is looking into this issue because of comments on the comment cards. If this is correct, then while you may prefer that things don't change, there may be many others that would like to see things change.

 

Didn't I say something much like that a few pages back?

 

You may have. I'm not trying to steal anyone's thunder. I am just stating a well know fact.

 

I am not only a passenger, I'm also a Carnival shareholder ... and, yes, I expect HAL to fulfill its fiduciary responsibilities to make money. Thus far, they don't seem to be having too much trouble doing that even with their current dress code. "Tweaking" it won't help.

 

Those that don't evolve with the times will perish. Just ask Blockbuster, or the newspaper industry, or the automobile industry, or Montgomery Ward, or MGM Grand Air, or Tower Records, or Circuit City, or Levitz Furniture, or Sharper Image, or Wickes Furniture.

 

When is the last time you used a floppy disc, or an 8 track player, or a Betamax, or a phonograph player, or a rotary dial phone, or a Walkman, or a TV without a remote, or a phone booth, or an Atari computer or an Atari game system?

 

If HAL stands still, HAL will join Commodore and Renaissance and the Big Red Boat and Windjammer. HAL must evolve to survive.

[RevNeal]

I have no problems with using "Cruiseline Formalwear", plus it leaves more space in the suitcase and, since I don't wear the infamous blazer/sport coat "in transit" like you do, I can take my inflatable ice chest, mixed drinks blender and coffee machine

 

Gotta bring that blender for frozen drinks! ;) :D

[RevNeal]

Rev, dude! Come on now! ;)

 

Things change.

:D

[RevNeal]

Yes, and HAL has a buffet which is casual 24/7. And although I don't like formal nights, I'll bring a suit and tie.

 

And that is both understood and greatly appreciated. :) HAL has had the Lido for a long time. In fact, if I remember my history correctly, HAL invented the Lido as an alternative for those who didn't want to participate in the Formal Night "thing." HAL has long innovated.

 

You are probably not the only one who feels this way. However, there must be a reason that HAL is looking into this. My guess (and it is just that, a guess) is that HAL is looking into this issue because of comments on the comment cards. If this is correct, then while you may prefer that things don't change, there may be many others that would like to see things change.

 

I agree. Squeaky wheels get the grease. This happened, last, when HAL instituted the "As You Wish" dining system; remarks on the comment cards whined and complained about the fixed dining system, so HAL changed and enable an opening dining option in addition to the traditional fixed dining system. Interestingly enough, predictions that HAL would do away with fixed dining -- some of which I, myself, made -- have proven false. Thankfully so. For a while it was hard to get fixed dining confirmed, or even at all, but things have settled out and some people have reconciled themselves to open seating when they can't get fixed, and others have discovered that they like it. Dining aboard ship hasn't been "ruined."

 

Those that don't evolve with the times will perish. Just ask Blockbuster, or the newspaper industry, or the automobile industry, or Montgomery Ward, or MGM Grand Air, or Tower Records, or Circuit City, or Levitz Furniture, or Sharper Image, or Wickes Furniture.

 

When is the last time you used a floppy disc, or an 8 track player, or a Betamax, or a phonograph player, or a rotary dial phone, or a Walkman, or a TV without a remote, or a phone booth, or an Atari computer or an Atari game system?

 

If HAL stands still, HAL will join Commodore and Renaissance and the Big Red Boat and Windjammer. HAL must evolve to survive.

 

I don't think there's any danger of that. HAL has survived for nearly a century and a half precisely because they have long known how to change, adapt, evolve, and even lead the market. They helped invent cruising, and have introduced many innovations into the industry that are now industry standards. I don't think HAL is the next failed cruise line, nor do I not want HAL to change, innovate, and lead. I simply believe that HAL can do all of this and still be a place where a touch of formality, gentility, refinement, and grace can be found. Believe it or not, there is room -- and demand -- for that in the current market ... even despite the wet-t-shirt, biggest belly, and hairiest back contests that one finds on certain lines.

[Opinions]

HAL did not survive!...They were bought out by the Carnival Corporation...It is just one of the Carnival brands.

[iancal]

My understanding is that HAL was acquired by Carnival Corporation about 48 hours before HAL was going into receivership. Carnival saved HAL from just a note in a history book.