HAL Survey-Re: Evening Attire, Mariner Society Rewards, Fly/Cruise

[fann1sh]

This is precisely correct, and precisely what I was saying. Thank you for making it clear.

 

I thought you did make it clear, and rational. I'm emotional about HAL, and often post heated, ill considered ramblings here, because take things too personally. I wish I had the better judgment you and many other HAL board regulars demonstrate.

 

My hope would be that HAL could adjust it sufficiently to attract more passengers without destroying that which makes their product unique and appealing to me. Personally, I believe it possible for them to do so through a process of introduction and exposure to those traditions and features that are part of the HAL experience. They were introduced to me and I was taught how to enjoy them; why can't the same thing happen to those that HAL wants to attract?

 

Your comments got me thinking about ways to do this. I've posted a new thread, querying how many would be interested in a new, a la carte "formal only" dining venue. It may not be practical, and others here may give it thumbs down.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=24184134

 

Personally, it would keep HAL on my list of potential cruise lines, instead of turning into a bad boyfriend break up. (Again, with the high emotion stuff :rolleyes: I never learn!)

[sail7seas]

You make some good points, Greg. I have 5 cruises, totaling 65 days, booked in the next 10 months. I would hope that HAL doesn't consider that insignificant.

 

However, I can also foresee the day when my Carnival stock is doing very well, yet I won't be happy sailing my favorite line. I really would like to have both a healthy stock, and a HAL cruise booked.

Perhaps a slight separation of HAL into the traditional, formal, longer voyages I love, and a more casual, shorter cruises, younger crowd HAL-Lite? HAL should not try to combine all things for all people on the same ship (a recipe where no one is satisfied), but could make the offerings separately.

 

 

 

No, Ruth,,,,,,,,,,,,, No

 

What does that do for those of us who are not retired but still sail about 50 days a year? My DH can only be out of his office 17 days at a time so we have to sail 14 days and under in order to have pre and post cruise stay in embarkation/debark port. Under your scheme, our 10 and 14 day cruises would have no formal nights.

 

 

 

 

RevNeal: The average cruise passenger in the market today doesn't cruise 2 or 3 times a year for a total of 30+ days ... year after year after year ... neither exclusively on one line or even at all. The average passenger cruises a single 7 or 10 day cruise every few (3-5) years ... and this assumes that they even repeat-cruise, which a percentage of them don't (they take one cruise and that's it). The average Mass Market passenger simply don't cruise as much or as often as the frequent cruisers do; those who have objected to my observation know this to be true. To replace those who cruise frequently, HAL will have to draw many more passengers from that mass market pool than they lose. It is even worse for the Line when one factors in those who cruise as often, or more, than I do but in the upper-ranks (i.e., in suites). I'm a cave dweller, and hence I don't pay as much as those quartered higher up on the ship. Nevertheless, the Line has to replace cave dwellers, like me, too. In order to draw enough passengers to replace the frequent traditional cruiser, the passenger-pool will have to be sufficiently broad (far broader than it has been in the past). This means they have no choice but to alter their product to reflect the greatest common denominator among cruisers. Hence, those who prefer a more casual product will inevitably win.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Under Greg's description of a certain group of loyal HAL cruisers, i think we would fit. Without apologizing for the fact we book Suites, the fact is we do and given the number of days we sail HAL year after year after year, I think we would be among those Greg describes as HAL wanting to hold onto.

 

There are no two MORE LOYAL cruisers than DH and me and any further changes would have to be extreme for us to stop saililng but we also want the 'full HAL product' and not some watered down version. Though we only sail 10 or 14 days at a time rather than 20 or more at once, we sail 5-7 cruises a year almost always. That is a lot of days by most people's measure. But it would not be acceptible to us if the 20 day cruises had formal nights but our mere 10 day cruises did not. We expect consistency from cruise to cruise and ship to ship. Either they have formal nights on all cruises or they have none on any cruises. JMHO.......

[suse]

And I misinterpreted his remarks. Apologies here. Yikes, I need a vacation.

[RevNeal]

Not bad holiday entitlement - I only have 32 days plus 8 bank holidays and that's considered pretty good in the UK where the average would be 20-25 depending on length of service. I had heard somewhere that most Americans average 10-15 days - not true??

 

True, that would be the average. Some professions vary greatly from that, and some professions have an increasing-scale tied to tenure for how much vacation one is due.

 

While it varies between denominations and sometimes even between dioceses/synods/conferences within denominations, clergy in the USA usually receive from at least 2 weeks to as many as 6 weeks of vacation and spiritual formation/continuing education leave every year. Usually one receives less early on in ministry, and gain the right to receive more as the years go on.

 

When I was ordained, and for my first 5 years in ministry, I was due only 2 weeks of vacation and 1 week continuing education/spiritual formation leave each year. Since I was working on my doctorate at the time, my Bishop granted me additional educational leave for 3 of those first 5 years, and one year I also took my vacation weeks to sequester myself and work on my dissertation. From 6 - 10 years in ministry I was due 3 weeks of vacation and 1 week continuing education/spiritual formation leave every year. From 11 - 15 years in ministry I received 4 weeks of vacation and 2 weeks of continuing education/spiritual formation leave. And, finally, from my 16th year on I have received 5 weeks of vacation and 2 weeks of continuing education/spiritual formation leave each and every year. I am in my 20th year in ministry.

[sail7seas]

And I misinterpreted his remarks. Apologies here. Yikes, I need a vacation.

 

 

Suse,

 

We all do that all the time.

Sometimes it is hard to get the whole message without facial expression, tone of voice, body language etc

 

Don't worry about it.

[RevNeal]

Under Greg's description of a certain group of loyal HAL cruisers, i think we would fit. Without apologizing for the fact we book Suites, the fact is we do and given the number of days we sail HAL year after year after year, I think we would be among those Greg describes as HAL wanting to hold onto.

 

Sail, you and your husband are precisely the kind of cruisers I was referencing when talking about the replacement difficulties HAL would face if we left. I'm the lower-end of the scale, with only 2-3 cruises and 30 or so days each year ... in inside cabins. You're toward the upper end of the scale, with 5-7 cruises a year and 50 or so days ... in suites! If I'm going to be tough for HAL to replace ... and they'll need about a 5:1 ratio, on average, to do it ... I can't imagine what kind of replace-ratio they would need to pick up to cover your leaving! 25:1 ? 35:1 ? Nevertheless, you and I are both HAL regulars. They know it. They count on us to keep cruising several times a year, filling their cabins for one to two months worth of days, each and every year. As much as they want to grow their market share -- and they do -- they also don't want to lose us. Or, at least, that's what I've been told. It will prove to be a delicate balancing act if they can really manage to do both.

[RuthC]

No, Ruth,,,,,,,,,,,,, No

 

What does that do for those of us who are not retired but still sail about 50 days a year? My DH can only be out of his office 17 days at a time so we have to sail 14 days and under in order to have pre and post cruise stay in embarkation/debark port. Under your scheme, our 10 and 14 day cruises would have no formal nights.

Not necessarily, sail. No where did I define "short" or "long" for the length of cruises. I know many times your 14-day cruises are really 2 @ 7 days, and that would be "short" in my mind. But there's no reason that there can't be one 14-day cruise that also fills your bill, and that could be considered "long".

 

If the choice were a radically changed HAL, or a selection of Old-HAL and HAL-Lite, I would want there to be some choices of HAL as I have known it.

[sail7seas]

Yes, you're right many of our 14 day cruises are, of necessity, b-to-b. That is often the only way to get 14 days aboard sailing where we want. It is the rare cruise when we sail less than 10 days.

However, our upcoming Maasdam cruise is 14 days and that really pleases us. It does make a difference when it is one rather than two cruises. Though we do love our b -to-b's as well. :)

 

If formal were to disappear on 7 day cruises but not 14 dayers.... hmmm, that would be an issue for us.

 

[travelmatron]

I got a survey. I've only cruised on HAL twice. I've never been on any cruise longer than 14 days. I don't think I've ever cruised more than twice in a year. I've cruised on 8 different cruise lines, most of them more than once, but none of them more than 5 times. DH and I take tours and travel independently. When we are planning a trip, a cruise is just one option. It doesn't bother me at all to be called a mass marketed cruiser because that is exactly what I am.

It seems to me that several of you are making the assumption that those of us who are not 'regular' HAL cruisers want to do away with formal nights. That's not necessarily the case.

...I'm just saying...

[lastlook]

I am only a 1 star Mariner (7 days on Eurodam & 7 days on Ryndam), received the survey and did respond to it. I took DH's feelings into consideration when I responded.

 

DH and I had first sailed on two Radisson (now Regent) cruises, and were used to the "country club casual" dress code for dinner, which we enjoyed. (They were cruises to Tahiti and the Caribbean.)

 

We did not mind dressing up for "formal nights" on HAL, but prefer more relaxed attire when on vacation. That said, we would continue to cruise HAL if they continue "formal nights", and would dress accordingly for the MDR. I don't have strong feelings one way or the other, but certainly understand those who are used to and enjoy the tradition of formal nights on HAL. I would be more inclined to prefer "formal nights" on longer European cruises (which will probably be our next cruise on HAL - hopefully May of 2011, if all goes as planned.) I would much rather dress formally for dinner in the MDR, than opt for the Lido!! That I do have a strong opinion about. The smoking issue is the other thing that I have a strong opinion on, but I'll leave it at that. :-)

[bra1nchild]

We're all related to Jesus.

 

But some of us are closer relations than others.

[fann1sh]

deleted.

[suse]

Suse,

 

We all do that all the time.

Sometimes it is hard to get the whole message without facial expression, tone of voice, body language etc

 

Don't worry about it.

You are truly one of my very best friends here. I hope to meet you someday.

Susie:)

[RevNeal]

And I misinterpreted his remarks. Apologies here. Yikes, I need a vacation.

 

suse, I'm sorry ... I didn't see your apology from yesterday. I must have been posting at nearly the exact same time and hence didn't see it.

 

It's ok ... these discussions on these boards can be land minds if one isn't generous in reading what others write. I try to assume the best ... though that's not always ease. :)

 

Nevertheless, don't give it any more thought.

[bcd2010]

...land minds...

 

Land mines - not picking on you Greg, we all make boo-boos - I never discover mine until it's too late to edit. But this typo tickled my funny bone - land minds vs sea minds? or air minds (aka airheads?)

 

;):D

[Cuizer2]

Land mines - not picking on you Greg, we all make boo-boos - I never discover mine until it's too late to edit. But this typo tickled my funny bone - land minds vs sea minds? or air minds (aka airheads?)

 

;):D

 

Well, I can think of a few heads that I would not mind seeing explode. But that is a topic for another thread (on another forum).

[RevNeal]

Land mines - not picking on you Greg, we all make boo-boos - I never discover mine until it's too late to edit.

 

When we're at sea most of the stuff that so bothers us on these boards doesn't even come to the surface. Hence, our squabbles and fights on CC tend to be the result of our minds being on land rather than at sea, where we'd rather be! :D Hence, "land minds."

 

<pretty slick, eh?>

 

:)

In truth, that typo illustrates the danger of posting to CC from an iPhone during the midst of a very BORING meeting; the auto-correct feature suggested "minds" rather than "mines" after I had typed the letters "min" ... my fat fingers didn't catch the error and, as I typed on, it was accepted.

[estebofarr]

I wonder if I printed it up (from here) and snail-mailed it, it would be taken into consideration. I would love to complete that survey.

[RevNeal]

I wonder if I printed it up (from here) and snail-mailed it, it would be taken into consideration. I would love to complete that survey.

 

That's not a bad idea ... given that they haven't seen fit to survey some of us, and we want to have our voices heard.

 

On the other hand, they would probably end up in the "circular file."

[geocruiser]

Hi,

 

I received the survey last week and filled it out. Trying to think why some have received it and others have not. We have 100 days on HAL. but did not sail HAL for about eight months. We sailed other brands this winter and have nothing booked on HAL for this year. We have Princess booked. Does any one else who received the survey fall into the same boat as we do with our cruise history of this year?

 

Maria

[maxout]

Hi,

 

I received the survey last week and filled it out. Trying to think why some have received it and others have not. We have 100 days on HAL. but did not sail HAL for about eight months. We sailed other brands this winter and have nothing booked on HAL for this year. We have Princess booked. Does any one else who received the survey fall into the same boat as we do with our cruise history of this year?

 

Maria

 

 

Most likely it was a random computer generated selection.

[RevNeal]

Most likely it was a random computer generated selection.

 

I'm sure they've used a random sampling algorithm on their Mariner database. The problem is that responses are, themselves, self-selected. That will generate the margin of error in the sampling methodology. If their sampling is large enough, however, they can minimize the margin for error.

 

Of course, the annoying truth is that had they sent it to the whole Mariner base the self-selection factor in the margin for error category relative to who answers it would be minimized to the lowest possible factor. And it wouldn't cost them anything to send it to all of us.

 

But, apparently not.

[maxout]

I'm sure they've used a random sampling algorithm on their Mariner database. The problem is that responses are, themselves, self-selected. That will generate the margin of error in the sampling methodology. If their sampling is large enough, however, they can minimize the margin for error.

 

Of course, the annoying truth is that had they sent it to the whole Mariner base the self-selection factor in the margin for error category relative to who answers it would be minimized to the lowest possible factor. And it wouldn't cost them anything to send it to all of us.

 

But, apparently not.

 

Perhaps their intention is a self-fulfilling prophesy :(

 

Justification for changes to be made with "research" to back it up for consumption by thr "Board" and indirectly the Shareholders.

[RevNeal]

Perhaps their intention is a self-fulfilling prophesy :(

 

Justification for changes to be made with "research" to back it up for consumption by thr "Board" and indirectly the Shareholders.

 

Perhaps. It's hard to say. I would love to see the survey results, however I'm pretty sure all we'll see are the outcomes ... i.e., what they do in response to the survey. By then it's too late.

[maxout]

Perhaps. It's hard to say. I would love to see the survey results, however I'm pretty sure all we'll see are the outcomes ... i.e., what they do in response to the survey. By then it's too late.

 

 

 

Sigh...