Azamara to build new ships ?

[WindrunnerII]

It would still not surprise me if there were a rebranding of other Ships in the RCI and Celebrity Fleets to Azamara. Although larger it is a far cheaper way of doing it......

 

Brian

 

I highly doubt this will happen as it's now accepted in the RCCL domicile that Azamara was a failed experiment. The brand is no longer supported by Celebrity's operations team but by RCI's and rolls up to Adam Goldstein. He's not going to waste time, money and valuable human resources on two money-losing ships that are but 2 or 3% of his total fleet capacity.

 

Smart money says they are rolled back up into the X fleet as they were originally intended.

[crzrr]

I highly doubt this will happen as it's now accepted in the RCCL domicile that Azamara was a failed experiment. The brand is no longer supported by Celebrity's operations team but by RCI's and rolls up to Adam Goldstein. He's not going to waste time, money and valuable human resources on two money-losing ships that are but 2 or 3% of his total fleet capacity.

 

Smart money says they are rolled back up into the X fleet as they were originally intended.

Are you in RCCL management as you speak with such authority? Having sailed on Azamara three times I would hardly call it a failed experiment. We were diehard Celebrity cruisers and have become avid Azamara cruisers. Not what I would call a failure.

[Sprit]

I highly doubt this will happen as it's now accepted in the RCCL domicile that Azamara was a failed experiment. The brand is no longer supported by Celebrity's operations team but by RCI's and rolls up to Adam Goldstein. He's not going to waste time, money and valuable human resources on two money-losing ships that are but 2 or 3% of his total fleet capacity.

 

Smart money says they are rolled back up into the X fleet as they were originally intended.

 

I don't know why, but I do have similar feelings. UNFORTUANTELY! I have to say.

 

It’s so quiet. The website does not update on both prices and info. I truly don’t hope so, but I do have a weird feeling that tells me we will get not so pleasant news on Azamara not too long from today………but again….I honestly do hope I’m wrong.

[Jade13]

I don't know why, but I do have similar feelings. UNFORTUANTELY! I have to say.

 

It’s so quiet. The website does not update on both prices and info. I truly don’t hope so, but I do have a weird feeling that tells me we will get not so pleasant news on Azamara not too long from today………but again….I honestly do hope I’m wrong.

 

I hope not as we have two cruises booked with them for next year.

[greeneg]

Are you in RCCL management as you speak with such authority? Having sailed on Azamara three times I would hardly call it a failed experiment. We were diehard Celebrity cruisers and have become avid Azamara cruisers. Not what I would call a failure.

 

I suspect that you have just given the reason why it is not unlikely that the Journey and the Quest may well become the Celebrity Journey and Quest; there is in fact, a split in the Celebrity Demographic between those who are enthralled by the S class ships, and those who are somewhat less than enthusiastic. IF Azamara, is in fact on the endangered list, then that might be the best way to retain those Celebrity Cruisers who prefer the small ship experience and yet do not want to pay for the Oceana or SilverSeas variants.

 

I have a feeling that the next few months are going to be interesting to say the least and I would personally make no bets as to how things are going to shake out.

[CruiseAdict218]

Are they trying to compete with Oceania, or Seabourn/Silversea/RSSC? Or something in-between?

 

They compete with Oceania b/c both are basiclly the same type of company nd there ships r the same other than there new Marina which will be bigger

[CruiseAdict218]

I wonder if the new builds are replacement ships as opposed to additional ships?

 

The Quest & The Journey arent even that old, they wouldn't do it b/c they r trying to compete with Oceania

[CruiseAdict218]

They wouldnt replace the Quest or the Journey or even both b/c both recevide a $25Million upgrade and they r trying to make more money replacing the ships will put them back at square one.

[Sprit]

I hope not as we have two cruises booked with them for next year.

 

So have we for next year (3 in total).........I truly do hope they will survive, but I do have strong doubts. I would suggest the ships transfer to Celebrity (like they have with Princess Cruises). Like Greeneg says...the upcoming months (I believe weeks) will be interesting.

[gosport11]

When we first booked the Quest it was in the celebrity brohure,it then became Azamara in its own right,maybe back to Pullmantara ;);):)

[wripro]

I think Azamara made two serious mistakes. First, when they came in to the market and tried to compete with Oceania they undercut O in prices by a significant amount while still trying to provide a similar product. Thereby they attracted a loyal clientele who loved the product and unrealistically expected Azamara's prices to remain low forever. Economically this was impossible so they had to do something. That's where their second mistake happened. They rebranded to Azamara Club, added some benefits and amenities and raised prices significantly. This not only alienated their loyal customers but did not attract the Oceania cruisers and perhaps the luxury line cruisers they had anticipated. That's why there are deals to be had once again. I have no idea how long RCCL will subsidize Azamara but my bet it that something will happen in the not too distant future.

[Sprit]

Plus I think there was a 3rd mistake. Not taken this upgrade to Club very seriously. Up till today the website is still not updated and also the info given by TA and Azamara self is not up to date. We'll wait and see:(

[Paulchili]

I am a "worry wart" by nature and this is not the kind of news I like to hear before my first ACC cruise in Sept.

I hope it is not as bad as some people fear it will be :confused:

My final payment is due soon.

[California Native]

Plus I think there was a 3rd mistake. Not taken this upgrade to Club very seriously. Up till today the website is still not updated and also the info given by TA and Azamara self is not up to date. We'll wait and see:(

 

 

I see all sorts of updates on the website

just to name a few.................

There's new flash on the home page

New pictures

Updates on Le Club Voyage

A link for Greece updates

can you please tell me what you think has remained the same???

also, i'm not sure if this would matter because I'm not a techie person

but have you cleared your cookies on your browser and then rebooted

your computer lately??

K.

[Sprit]

Ok, start with looking at "onboard experience" and under that at unique stateroom experience and you'll see the old info with regards to the specialty restaurants.

Or look over there for the info on butlers. Also this not acurate.

 

Just to name a few.

[California Native]

Ok, start with looking at "onboard experience" and under that at unique stateroom experience and you'll see the old info with regards to the specialty restaurants.

Or look over there for the info on butlers. Also this not acurate.

 

Just to name a few.

 

Well, I say everyone should print that out and take it onboard with them

It says Azamara Club Cruises on it, so it indicates that is for the new "branding"

I bet it will be honored and then the home office will get a phone call and the updates would be done.

Sometimes companies are bogged down on other issues and some web person dropped the ball.

We don't know why it hasnt been done, I'm willing to give people and companies the benefit of the doubt that things happen behind close doors I'm unaware of...

There's been a few people calling this rebranding a disaster

and I think that is extreme and it seems so melo dramatic

I've had honest to goodness REAL disasters and I wish all of them could be on this "level".

[greeneg]

I am a "worry wart" by nature and this is not the kind of news I like to hear before my first ACC cruise in Sept.

I hope it is not as bad as some people fear it will be :confused:

My final payment is due soon.

 

Paul, I honestly do not think that you will have anything to worry about. Our experience on the ships has been truly remarkable; the best cruise that we have ever taken was the Best of Italy on the Quest a year ago. Admittedly, some of that was being part of a very special group of people ( our roll call), but we would have had a great time just because of the Crew and their efforts to make everything as special as they could.

 

The issues, I think, are more reflective of Management Strategies and Policy Decisions, which may turn out to be either ill-advised, poorly implemented, or not fully thought out. The one thing that I have seen from people's posts that does not appear to have changed is the Officer's and Crew's commitment to making sure that passengers have a First Class Experience.

 

I submit that you can expect that also.

[Andy]

Hi Everyone !

 

As most of us are wondering, Azamara's recent silence is puzzling. It seems as if they are getting quieter as each week passes. I have to wonder what's being said in meetings at corporate HQ in Miami. My guess is, they are trying to figure out what the future holds. I do not believe that RCCL has given up on Azamara. It's probably more the case of, they are working on a plan to right the ship, so to speak, to make Azamara work.

 

There is no absolutely no doubt in my mind, that Azamara can succeed, and have a great future. I have tremendous faith Azamara can be very profitable, with smart business, sales, and marketing decisions. They have a wonderful product, their ships are beautiful, and their onboard crew are amongst the best at Sea. Despite comments from our dear CC friends suggesting otherwise, I believe that Azamara has many wonderful land based folks on their team. I would label Azamara's current status, as a diamond in the rough.

 

With that said, I strongly feel Azamara must take a hard look at their actions over the past few months. The obvious targets: the New Azamara rollout, Pricing/Amenities, their confusing website, some mind boggling sales strategies, and last but certainly not least... Le Club Voyage. The question is, do they make an about face, reverse what's been done, and revert back to the "Old Azamara" including price reductions ? Or, do they call it a day, and fold the operations into Celebrity. I want to make it clear that I am not suggesting that's imminent, nor do I hope it happens... but you have to think it's one of many options on the table.

 

IMHO, one critical mistake Azamara made, is that they should have held lengthy discussions with past guests, on their plans for the "New Azamara" BEFORE they rolled it out. I am 100% certain, that if they had extensive dialogue, focus groups, and surveys with their past guests, they would have realized the new ideas were not going to be met with favorable results. Had they asked me, or many of us who regularly post here, I'm sure they would have recieved a treasure chest of valuable input ! Why Azamara ? Why ? It wasn't all that complicated. Most industries hold focus groups, and the idea that Azamara virtually ignored their past guests, did not seek their input, and devised the "New Azamara" plan, with the "we know what we are doing" mindset... spelled trouble from the get-go. Azamara MUST be reaching out to their past guests, more now than ever !

 

From the day the "New Azamara" was announced, many of us had reservations, including an ill-advised cloud of secrecy, which left everyone confused. That wasn't a good beginning. While I like some of the things they have done, I wasn't pleased with the large price increases. To me, that was a huge red flag... mostly due to the fact, that the timing was terrible. I cannot see any logic in raising prices when the economy is very weak. That goes against every bit of good business sense. What I would have done, is commit 2010 to making the Azamara product one of the best Cruise experiences at sea, get the buzz going, and gradually raise prices as demand increased. I never would have chosen one large increase. It turned off Azamara's past guests, and made prospective passengers look elsewhere. With all due respect, that was a perfect recipe for trouble.

 

I cannot see how Azamara can maintain the current pricing structure, as long as their ships are sailing less than full. On some sailings, they can demand the new pricing, but on other sailings, (based on what recent passengers are telling us), the ships are not sailing at capacity. I do not see the logic in sailing ships that are not full. Empty cabins do not purchase drinks, shore excursions, gamble in the casino, purchase future cruises, or add to other onboard revenues. I feel the ships must be sailing at capacity. Without full ships, how can they expect to be profitable ? For the time being, if they cant make it on the Cruise fare, they need the onboard revenues to help them out.

 

On another note, I'm fairly unhappy with Azamara's 2011/2012 itineraries. I feel that some of them are great, but too many of them are uninspired, and not what Azamara's past guests were hoping for. I feel it's yet another case of Azamara not listening to past guests. Several months ago, a competitor of Azamara's held a contest, to ask past guests to design their perfect itinerary. While I'm not certain if the contest was a success, it was an excellent gesture, and clearly showed they were interested what their passengers had to say. Azamara should be reaching out to their guests in some fashion. While I am perfectly fine with a handful of 7 night itineraries, I feel there are too many of them. I'm very displeased with Journey sailing from San Juan in Winter of 2011, especially at the current pricing. San Juan is a very tough sell on a good day, ask Celebrity. Finally, Celebrity woke up (on the Celebrity Board, I've been suggesting for years, there should be only 1 Celebrity ship from SJU) and Celebrity will be sailing 1 less ship out of SJU in 2011. It's a very smart move by Celebrity, though I wonder if Azamara was asked to take Celebrity's vacated slot. There were so many other more appealing options available to Azamara. You have to wonder what on earth they were thinking. If they do not do something with Journey's Winter 2011 plan, she will be sailing near empty. They must scrap that plan, and go back to the drawing board.

 

As for new ships ? As I've said, I do not feel it is likely. However, I strongly feel that if RCCL is commited to Azamara, they need more than 2 ships. Personally, I'd like to see Mercury and eventually Century move to Azamara, but I do not feel that's on RCCL's or Azamara's radar at the moment. While I agree it's tough to consider adding a ship or two when things are less than perfect, the probablity remains that Mercury is headed elsewhere, so it might as well be to Azamara. It's a gamble that RCCL & Azamara should take. This would buy them another year or two to build the line, expand awareness, and eventually order new ships. As they stand now, 2 ships leaves Azamara between a rock and a hard place. I have a fantastic plan for Mercury. If she sailed as Azamara Mercury, I believe she could be a huge winner for Azamara, enhance the awareness & value of Journey and Quest, and lead the charge for Azamara's resurgence. It would be a win-win for everyone !

 

Another option, is to call it a day, and fold Azamara into Celebrity. The original plan, was to sail the ships as Celebrity Journey and Celebrity Quest. At the time, I did not fully understand the logic of the need for a separate branding and identity for Journey, and then Quest. In fairness to Celebrity, it was a different world in 2007. The economy was doing fairly well, the cruise industry was booming, most didnt know Oil was headed for nearly $150 a barrel (though I expected the oil mania nonsense, and called the following massive decline in oil prices), and we didnt know a Global financial recession was ahead. Hindsight is 20-20. Princess has Sister ships to Journey and Quest, that are branded as Princess, have an extremly loyal following, and typically sell for a nice Premium above the rest of the Princess Fleet. Celebrity could have easily done the same. However, as what's done is done, and as RCCL, Celebrity and Azamara have a huge amount of time, money, energy and effort invested, I hope they remain committed to Azamara !

 

Only time will tell what the future holds, but I remain fully convinced that Azamara can succeed. Few are rooting more for their success, more than I am. I truly hope they will be given the chance to become the diamond they are fully capable of being. Wise, strong, creative and bold decisions must be made across the board, going forward. Think outside of the box Azamara ! I sincerely wish Mr Pimentel, and everyone at Azamara, Celebrity, and RCCL all the very best, in finding the right answers !

[Sprit]

There's no way I could have adressed my concerns any better than this !

 

Thanks Andy for your valuable input. Let's hope Azamara will listen and at least take your comments in consideration.

 

I'll be on the quest next week and hopefuly I'll be back with a wonderful and positive review !

[Andy]

There's no way I could have adressed my concerns any better than this !

 

Thanks Andy for your valuable input. Let's hope Azamara will listen and at least take your comments in consideration.

 

I'll be on the quest next week and hopefuly I'll be back with a wonderful and positive review !

 

Hi Spirit !

 

Thank you for your very nice comments. I too, hope Azamara will at least take my comments into consideration. As Ed (greeng) perfectly said a few posts back, PLEASE do not worry about all the behind the scenes stuff. I am confident you will have a great Cruise on Azamara Quest. We've been on 2 Quest sailings, and loved our time onboard. My biggest regret, is that I did not book Journey before the price increase (Yes, I know.... what was I thinking !), but I hope to sail on Journey in the Caribbean before she says farewell to Miami after April 2011.

 

Bon Voyage Spirit !

[gosport11]

Well written Andy, it sums up a lot of rites and wrongs over the past months

[CruiseAdict218]

Hi Everyone !

As for new ships ? As I've said, I do not feel it is likely. However, I strongly feel that if RCCL is commited to Azamara, they need more than 2 ships. Personally, I'd like to see Mercury and eventually Century move to Azamara, but I do not feel that's on RCCL's or Azamara's radar at the moment. While I agree it's tough to consider adding a ship or two when things are less than perfect, the probablity remains that Mercury is headed elsewhere, so it might as well be to Azamara. It's a gamble that RCCL & Azamara should take. This would buy them another year or two to build the line, expand awareness, and eventually order new ships. As they stand now, 2 ships leaves Azamara between a rock and a hard place. I have a fantastic plan for Mercury. If she sailed as Azamara Mercury, I believe she could be a huge winner for Azamara, enhance the awareness & value of Journey and Quest, and lead the charge for Azamara's resurgence. It would be a win-win for everyone !

 

Another option, is to call it a day, and fold Azamara into Celebrity. The original plan, was to sail the ships as Celebrity Journey and Celebrity Quest. At the time, I did not fully understand the logic of the need for a separate branding and identity for Journey, and then Quest. In fairness to Celebrity, it was a different world in 2007. The economy was doing fairly well, the cruise industry was booming, most didnt know Oil was headed for nearly $150 a barrel (though I expected the oil mania nonsense, and called the following massive decline in oil prices), and we didnt know a Global financial recession was ahead. Hindsight is 20-20. Princess has Sister ships to Journey and Quest, that are branded as Princess, have an extremly loyal following, and typically sell for a nice Premium above the rest of the Princess Fleet. Celebrity could have easily done the same. However, as what's done is done, and as RCCL, Celebrity and Azamara have a huge amount of time, money, energy and effort invested, I hope they remain committed to Azamara !

 

Only time will tell what the future holds, but I remain fully convinced that Azamara can succeed. Few are rooting more for their success, more than I am. I truly hope they will be given the chance to become the diamond they are fully capable of being. Wise, strong, creative and bold decisions must be made across the board, going forward. Think outside of the box Azamara ! I sincerely wish Mr Pimentel, and everyone at Azamara, Celebrity, and RCCL all the very best, in finding the right answers !

 

Even though i havent been with either tho i would luv to but anyway those r good ideas but i dont think the Mercury would go to them nor would the Century its a very good idea but both types dont match which is why the Quest and Journey got there own line but nevertheless its a good idea and i would luv to sail with Azamara but that wont be for a little while

[cruiseyguy]

I agree with Host Andy on many points except with regard to Mercury & Century. I don't see how these large, mass cruising ships would fit into the Azamara concept of small ship, boutique cruising. I personally dislike Mercury enormously in its present very dated form and refurbishing it to a higher standard would be very costly. And how would these big ships fit with Azamara's stated objective of visiting smaller ports where large ships can't dock? They wouldn't, of course. I think Azamara's biggest mis-step was the timing and size of the fare increases. They should have brought current passengers into the new concept at the former lower prices, allowed them to get used to (and dependent on) the new changes, and then slowly raised prices as conditions and bookings permitted. I don't think it's realistic to expect anyone to pay the current high prices for an untried and untested product.

[Jade13]

I agree with Host Andy on many points except with regard to Mercury & Century. I don't see how these large, mass cruising ships would fit into the Azamara concept of small ship, boutique cruising. I personally dislike Mercury enormously in its present very dated form and refurbishing it to a higher standard would be very costly. And how would these big ships fit with Azamara's stated objective of visiting smaller ports where large ships can't dock? They wouldn't, of course. I think Azamara's biggest mis-step was the timing and size of the fare increases. They should have brought current passengers into the new concept at the former lower prices, allowed them to get used to (and dependent on) the new changes, and then slowly raised prices as conditions and bookings permitted. I don't think it's realistic to expect anyone to pay the current high prices for an untried and untested product.

 

Well I can speak first hand having gotten off Quest in Feb and Century last week. Century is too large to fit this category of cruising with approx 1,800 pax capacity (we had approx. 1,600 last week according to someone onboard).

 

On the other hand, here is the problem that Azamara may have. We were completely surprised on the quality we had on Century (compared to 2008) in both the food in the MDR, Cruise Director (Sue Denning whom I understand was on Azamara as was our Captain) and Captains Club Hostess (who invited us to a Bridge Tour, Back Stage Tour and more). Maybe Azarama should bring that Chef onboard. The Cruise Director and shows were better than Quest. We were on a 4 night cruise to non exotic Key West & Cozumel but still it has me thinking about the new Azamara per diem. And Azamara is still a large ship compared to real expedition ships. The price increases were not 35% for those posting here but more than 100% in some cases.

[Andy]

I agree with Host Andy on many points except with regard to Mercury & Century. I don't see how these large, mass cruising ships would fit into the Azamara concept of small ship, boutique cruising. I personally dislike Mercury enormously in its present very dated form and refurbishing it to a higher standard would be very costly. And how would these big ships fit with Azamara's stated objective of visiting smaller ports where large ships can't dock? They wouldn't, of course

 

Hi Cruiseyguy !

 

As I mentioned, I'm not suggesting that Mercury and/or Century are the perfect fit for Azamara. They arent, but Mercury could be used as a short term solution, to help grow the brand. My point was, I feel it's hard to do much with a fleet of 2 ships. It would be interesting if Azamara could acquire some R-Class ships, but I doubt that is an option. As for size, it's important to mention, that if Azamara were to eventually build new ships, they would probably be much larger than Journey and Quest. Oceania's new ship Marina, is 65,000 tons. Mercury is only 18% larger than Marina. In another few years, like it or not, 65,000 tons is going to be considered small !

 

As Mr. Pimentel already stated that Newbuilds are not an option for now, I feel they need to grow, and Mercury may be the only option out there. I'm mainly thinking in terms of Mercury, as I do not feel that Celebrity has immediate plans to part with Century. As for refurbishment costs, its minimal, as compared to building new ships. Regarding Ports, without getting into specifics, Mercury should be able to dock in the regions I have in mind. Otherwise, tenders can be used. I realize Mercury is a longshot for Azamara, but I thought it was worth discussing, especially for what I have in mind.

 

I'm sure that many would prefer Azamara having a fleet of several R-Class ships, but I do not see that as a likely scenario, from either a logistical or financial standpoint.