Air Travel Insiders regarding AS

[klfrodo]

To make this cruise related, My folks are flying from STL up here to SEA for an Alaska cruise.

 

Here's the question:

AS just announced a new route. Direct SEA to STL

How does AS continue to do this? They used to be mostly a regional airline up and down the west coast. They have expanded services now to MIA, DFW, ATL, HNL, (don't know codes) for Boston, DC, Newark,etc.

 

Do they just buy or lease routes from partner airlines? Do they actually bid and receive new routes from the FAA and compete against partner airlines? How does this work?

When I fly these routes, I notice that most ground services are still provided by the partner airline and use the partner airline gates.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm a huge fan of AS and fly with them as much as possible. If they want to continue with these longer routes, they just need to reconsider that DigiPlayer :eek:

[frugaltravel]

Actually since deregulation in the 70's, no need to apply for routes within the US. The airlines just need to obtain the slots/gates at the airports they want to fly to. And if it makes economic sense for them, they will fly. Usually they contract with partners for check in, gate services and baggage. It makes no sense to hire their own workers for 1-2 flights a day.

 

If they want to continue with these longer routes, they just need to reconsider that DigiPlayer :eek:

 

For those who can't entertain themselves in-flight, I guess so. But even on the longest of international flights, I rarely use the in-flight entertainment. I bring my own music and books.

[Gardyloo]

Alaska took over SEA-STL within days of American discontinuing it. AS seems happy to scavenge routes as other airlines exit. AS works more on an origin-destination model than the hub-and-spokes model of the other legacy carriers; it made little sense for AA to maintain hubs at STL, DFW and ORD. AA flew SEA-STL because they inherited it when they acquired the corpse of TWA ten years ago.

[klfrodo]

Actually since deregulation in the 70's, no need to apply for routes within the US. The airlines just need to obtain the slots/gates at the airports they want to fly to. And if it makes economic sense for them, they will fly. .

 

OK, I guess that leads to a more precise question.

Let's use the SEA to DFW route for instance. This used to be an AA route. AS uses AA ground services and gates at DFW. How did this go down?

 

AS went to AA and said, Hey AA, we (AS) want to start flying our metal to DFW. We (AS) want one of your landing slots and gate slots. You (AA) can continue selling seats on this route but your passengers will fly on our (AS) metal.

Does AS lease or buy these slots from AA?

If so, what is the financial benefit for each party?

[Gardyloo]

OK, I guess that leads to a more precise question.

Let's use the SEA to DFW route for instance. This used to be an AA route. AS uses AA ground services and gates at DFW. How did this go down?

 

AS went to AA and said, Hey AA, we (AS) want to start flying our metal to DFW. We (AS) want one of your landing slots and gate slots. You (AA) can continue selling seats on this route but your passengers will fly on our (AS) metal.

Does AS lease or buy these slots from AA?

If so, what is the financial benefit for each party?

AS didn't take over from AA on SEA-DFW; it's still AA's biggest destination out of SEA.

 

Very few US airports are landing slot-limited; I think JFK may be only one but not sure. In the US the FAA measures runway through-put rather than gate capacity.

 

AFAIK all AS had to do was get a gate allocated at DFW, leased by the airport. Once it has a gate (which can be time-limited, e.g. X flights/day using that gate if someone else is time-sharing it) it can operate as it pleases.

 

As for ground handling, I don't know who handles AS ground/baggage ops at DFW. I recall AA threw a tizzy when AS entered the market (stopped codeshares etc.) so I'm pretty sure AA doesn't do it. AS uses Menzies at SEA, PDX and LAX but Menzies doesn't show AS as a customer at DFW, so I don't know.

[frugaltravel]

OK, I guess that leads to a more precise question.

Let's use the SEA to DFW route for instance. This used to be an AA route. AS uses AA ground services and gates at DFW. How did this go down?

 

AS went to AA and said, Hey AA, we (AS) want to start flying our metal to DFW. We (AS) want one of your landing slots and gate slots. You (AA) can continue selling seats on this route but your passengers will fly on our (AS) metal.

Does AS lease or buy these slots from AA?

If so, what is the financial benefit for each party?

 

AS doesn't need to take over one of AA's landing slots if another one is available. I know DL greatly reduced their flights to/from DFW a few years ago. So maybe there is excess capacity.

 

And actually, AA still flies DFW to SEA. AA and AS are partners (not "alliance" partner but "strategic" partners) and often the airlines put each other's codes on the flights. So they can get revenue from each other for doing this. This might not be the case with AA/AS in this market but in principle it happens all the time with airlines.

[FlyerTalker]

DFW is not slot-controlled, so there was no need to acquire any.

 

Slot control is in effect, IIRC, at LGA, DCA, ORD, LGB, and part of the day at JFK and EWR. (Please correct if I'm in error, guys).

 

AA and AS code-share on a number of routes, including SEA-DFW and a number of AA routes out of ORD.

[Gardyloo]

AA and AS code-share on a number of routes, including SEA-DFW

Not any more on DFW.

[FlyerTalker]

I stand corrected....somehow was misreading schedules online. Thanks for the correction, as I am not an expert on AA ops.

 

DL and NW do codeshare on each other's flights between SEA-MSP and SEA-ATL....which I find fascinating. Not sure how that got approved, as the old NW/CO/DL SkyTeam codeshare agreements prohibited sharing between the airline's hubs (DTW-IAH and ATL-EWR for example). Hmmm.

[waterbug123]

I stand corrected....somehow was misreading schedules online. Thanks for the correction, as I am not an expert on AA ops.

 

DL and NW do codeshare on each other's flights between SEA-MSP and SEA-ATL....which I find fascinating. Not sure how that got approved, as the old NW/CO/DL SkyTeam codeshare agreements prohibited sharing between the airline's hubs (DTW-IAH and ATL-EWR for example). Hmmm.

 

But since DL bought NW those flights really wouldn't be considered codeshares, as they are all Delta flights now.

[klfrodo]

Thanks for the "airlines internal workings basics 101" course.

[FlyerTalker]

But since DL bought NW those flights really wouldn't be considered codeshares, as they are all Delta flights now.

I was referencing the fact that when these were independent airlines within the SkyTeam alliance, none of the three could join for codeshares between hubs. It was a historic note (note the word "old"), not describing current arrangements, and was presented to contrast with the current DL/AS codeshares between the MSP/ATL Delta hubs and the AS Seattle hub.

[waterbug123]

I was referencing the fact that when these were independent airlines within the SkyTeam alliance, none of the three could join for codeshares between hubs. It was a historic note (note the word "old"), not describing current arrangements, and was presented to contrast with the current DL/AS codeshares between the MSP/ATL Delta hubs and the AS Seattle hub.

 

You said: "DL and NW do codeshare on each other's flights between SEA-MSP and SEA-ATL....which I find fascinating."

 

Not trying to get into an argument, but the way you stated that, it sounds like you are indeed describing current arrangements. :confused:

 

So I just pointed out that it's not really a codeshare when they (DL and NW) are actually the same airline.