Booking an accessible room

[HeatherInFlorida]

Oceanwench, this is postively unbelievable! There's a link to this thread from the Zuiderdam thread. As you know, I agreed with you there and I agree with you here.

 

I can understand why the handicapped cabins would book out, but they should book out by handicapped persons only. And what I find even more unbelievable is that people without disabilities are allowed to book the HC cabin with the understanding that they will be moved if a "legitimate" HC person comes along. And if that happens, the original bookers are UPGRADED to an SS category!!!:eek:

There's "something rotten in Denmark!" I can't think of a reason in the world that a person should not be required to show documention for the necessity of booking an HC cabin. Then if they don't fill them, they can move people into them all they want.

I honestly think that someone with some clout should be looking into this issue and getting it changed. If we are required to have placards for parking, then certainly there can be a form for cruising in a handicapped accessible cabin. Surely there's someone connected with ADA who can move some mountains.

[Oceanwench]

Thanks, Heather, for your support and understanding. It means a lot.

I wish there were more people like you!

 

I am going to get DH working on this. He is an advocate for the rights of the disabled, and he has many contacts and is a voice in the community.

Unfortunately there are a lot of complications with the ADA and how it applies to cruise ships.

 

In the end, I guess we have to realize that many people will be selfish no matter what and want to book the rooms that are the biggest, even though those rooms are designated for people with handicaps.

 

I think their punishment is no pillowtops!!!

[HeatherInFlorida]

I think their punishment is no pillowtops!!!

 

Yes, you're right!!!:D ... so funny. Actually you're not far from the truth because I specifically remember someone complaining about getting a handicapped cabin. There were things they didn't like about it. Do you remember that thread? So you sure can't make all the people happy all the time.;)

[Queenie2]

Actually the ADA protects people from having to "prove" or "document" their disability in order to receive accessible services. Self-declaration that you are disabled and need accessible services is considered adequate. And (currently) the ADA does not apply to cruise ships with foreign flags (of course the Supreme Court is deciding that issue this session).

 

Can somebody post a link to the HAL thread that you are all talking about? I was aware of the RCI one, but not the HAL one.

 

Thanks!

 

Candy

[HeatherInFlorida]

Candy, I understand what you're saying but why, then, does a person need such "proof" to get a handicapped tag to park in disabled parking spots?

 

Here's the link: Cruise Critic Message Boards - Zuiderdam 1/29 review!!! You have to read through the thread ... it's not entirely about this, but the OP mentioned they were in a handicapped cabin and the discussion began there.

[Oceanwench]

Heather,

 

I did not see that thread, but I have heard that people have complained about getting the HC rooms when they did not require them.

 

What some of those AB people need to realize:

 

1. HC rooms may be a bigger space, but that's just what it is: space. I don't think they're gaining anything as far as closets or drawers. Just open space.

2. The HC verandah cabins I have had on HAL have regular-size balconies.

3. There isn't a bathtub - just a big roll-in shower.

4. And the bed is low & not a pillowtop mattress.

5. Not all HC cabins are conveniently located. Ours on the Zui & the O were all the way forward -- quite a hike. DH was in his power chair, so it was no biggie.

 

Really, how much time do you spend in your room???

The amenities most people want -- the nice pillowtop bed, for instance -- are not in an HC room.

And if the balconies are the same size ... then what's the point?

[zannaree]

... but you have given me something to think about, and I certainly hear your frustration. When we were booking our three-person cabin, it was the Carnival rep who suggested the HC room, and I believe that the cruise was nearing capacity... but maybe not. Maybe they do look at the HC rooms as simply bigger and better... and do not reserve them for as long as possible for those with legitimate need.

 

I assumed that the rooms in the category we qualified for were booked, with the exception of the HC room, as the agent said the ship was getting full and the only two rooms we were offered were both accessible rooms on different levels. It seems like it would make sense if the accessible rooms could only be booked by certifiably (another can of worms) disabled people until some established date close to the sailing - and then opened up when the company is trying to fill up the final vacant cabins. Sounds like that is not a policy at this point...

 

One more comment - I do hear the passion of those who post on this board. I may be ignorant about many things, but please do not assume that I am intentionally careless about accessibility issues, hard-hearted, lying, conniving, or stupid - if you treat me that way, your chances of teaching me are pretty slim, as you have just taught me that I will be massacred if I post here.

[Queenie2]

Candy, I understand what you're saying but why, then, does a person need such "proof" to get a handicapped tag to park in disabled parking spots?

 

Thanks for your link.

 

In response to your query about accessible parking placards, they are covered under your state vehicle code, not the ADA. Let me clarify that, the requirements for spaces, signage are covered under the ADAAG (and some states also have stricter statutes) but the regulations for enforcement and requirements to get one are covered under the vehicle code. It's an entirely different animal.

 

Addressing the ADA again, for example if a person with a service animal says it's a service animal, you cannot ask for documentation that that animal has graduated from a specific program. If a person books an accessible room in a hotel, you can't ask them what there disability is, or even if they are disabled. You can however ask them if they need a roll-in shower or some of the other room features. If a PWD is applying for a job, the prospective employer cannot ask him about his specific diability, but he can ask what reasonable accommodations (if any) he/she will require (ie:ramps, computer software, etc.

 

I'm going to go read the HAL thread now.

 

Candy

[HeatherInFlorida]

Zannaree, I think you are none of the words you used and I don't think when folks on this board used them they were directed you. I can tell by the way you post that you are none of these things. Clearly, your's is a different situation posed by the Carnival agent and I can see why you would accept the offer.

 

But evidently there are people posting in other places who are figuring ways to get this "larger" cabin and in so doing maybe even win out on an upgrade. And people are reacting to that.

 

You obviously did not purposely set out to deceive or take away from anyone and I think your reaction here makes that clear. I think the problem lies far more with the cruiseline than with most individuals.

 

Candy, thanks for clearing that up for me. I was not aware. But I think in this particular area the ADA not wishing there to be a requirement to show proof of disability plays against them. It makes no sense to me because that would mean that I can call up HAL, say I have a disability and book that cabin (if I didn't want a pillowtop;) ) and that's just plain wrong.

 

Oceanwench, your points are valid and excellent. The post I saw complaining about getting one of these cabins said exactly that and they were quite furious. However, I will say that on Celebrity M class ships they have some very desireable HC cabins midships right near the elevators and the balconies are considerably larger. But this is not so on HAL. Thankfully Celebrity is not so quick to hand out the HC cabins.

[newbiecruiser54]

I was very sad to see her flamed on this board. She never asked for a HC accessible room. This was offered by the Carnival rep, because the ship was getting so full. Zannaree was told that if a handicapped person needed the cabin, we would be moved, and we were of course fine with that. I even called the Carnival rep later to see what else was available, because I found out through these boards that this was an obstructed view room, which we were not told at the time of booking. She told me that the only other OV room available was on Deck 2, and urged us to stick with the room we had reserved.

My sister is a beautiful person who is in a profession where she helps people constantly. We have a mentally handicapped brother and two elderly parents who are disabled, and we care about the needs of others.

So please don't flame others on this board, and assume things about them which may be completely untrue.

[Queenie2]

Let me be clear, I don't really have a problem with anybody taking an accessible room if they are moved there as an upgrade or even if the cruise lines offer it to them. How can you fault somebody for accepting something *offered* to them? In most cases I think they assume that it is not needed by a disabled person. (which may or may not be the case).

 

What I do have a problem with is a person lying to get an accessible room. I don't believe anybody who posted on this thread did that. However I have encountered several of these individuals. One (AB passenger) even bragged to me about how he told his TA to falsify the documents because "she knows what side her bread is buttered on". That I have a *real* problem with.

 

I think it's pretty much human nature for somebody who is not familiar with access requirements to note how much bigger the accessible rooms are. They don't understand that the space is required to maneuver a wheelchair. Think back -- how many of us really understood disability issues before we were personally exposed to them?

 

Personally I think the accessible rooms should be blocked until about a week before sailing, but I don't run the cruise lines, so it's just my opinion. And I think self-identifying yourself as a PWD is enough. Yes, people will lie, but people can have their doctors lie too. (seen that a number of times too)

 

I think the cruise lines could do a better job of managing the accessible cabins without requiring medical documentation; however I don't see that happening either. I guess the moral of the story is to keep calling back to see if an accessible cabin is available. I've heard countless stories from folks who were told at first there were no accessible cabins, but one freed up as the sailing date got closer.

 

Now I'm going to cross my fingers and hit the "submit reply" button. Yesterday when I tried to post this same mesage the whole board went kabloowey!

 

Candy

[guardhouse]

Isn't it surprising for HAL, who has a larger percentage of older passengers, which I would think would also lend to having more mobility impaired cruisers, to not require verification.

 

A couple of weeks back there was a similar thread on Princess. That posted got slammed pretty well, but still didn't get the point. Unfortunatly, now it is likely back 8-10 pages.

[HeatherInFlorida]

I was very sad to see her flamed on this board. She never asked for a HC accessible room. This was offered by the Carnival rep, because the ship was getting so full. Zannaree was told that if a handicapped person needed the cabin, we would be moved, and we were of course fine with that. I even called the Carnival rep later to see what else was available, because I found out through these boards that this was an obstructed view room, which we were not told at the time of booking. She told me that the only other OV room available was on Deck 2, and urged us to stick with the room we had reserved.

My sister is a beautiful person who is in a profession where she helps people constantly. We have a mentally handicapped brother and two elderly parents who are disabled, and we care about the needs of others.

So please don't flame others on this board, and assume things about them which may be completely untrue.

 

Newbie, no one flamed Zannaree on this thread. Where do you see that? Zannaree was very nice and my post above says just that. Why do you think she was flamed? No one here was referring to folks who were offered an HC cabin by the cruiseline. Any criticism was of persons who lied to get one of these cabins.

So there's really no reason for your defense though it's very nice of you. No one here is talking about your sister in their criticism. As a matter of fact, I was certainly very clear that I believe the cruiselines are at fault. So read it all again and you will see that neither you nor Zannaree should take it personally.

[zannaree]

 

...I am insulted by your comment that you work with people who need accessible facilities, that some of your relatives need accessible facilities.

That's akin to the old "some of my best friends are ... [you fill in the blank]."

A poor attempt to justify what you've done and at the same time show how [allegedly] sympathetic you are to the needs of persons with disabilities.

 

...Those who deliberately book HC cabins, claiming they are willing to give it up if a person with dsiabilities needs it, are selfish.

Don't kid yourself.

 

I told my husband about this thread and asked him, if he did not have MS, if he were part of the AB world, would he ever knowingly book an accessible cabin for the extra space.

His reply: "Are you kidding? Absolutely not."

 

 

Sometimes one misinterprets the intent behind statements made via the internet because there's none of the non-verbal stuff to help out. Oceanwench may have responded out of passionate conviction, but it was flaming, nonetheless... "insulted" "allegedly sympathetic" and "selfish" are strong, negatively judgemental words.

 

I believe she made her point, and that I have made mine, and that if we knew one another off the boards we would likely enjoy one another. Truce.

[Hebe]

I posted a thread a few months ago about how hard it is to get a wheelchair assessable balcony room these days because of this reason. We are still waitlisted for a handicap room for our May 1st cruise (waitlist started in August). I am convienced that we are not going to get one (this is a transatlantic so we cannot move dates).

 

I have cruised with those people who brag about those rooms. One says his wife has a slight sight disablility so he should get the room. Other siad it come available two months in advance -- LOL - he posted this room number a year in advance. Third - Celebrity put in that room because they were doing a back to back (did this 9 month in advance of cruise).

 

I too get upset about this on the boards and the attitude of -- they will move me if they need it.

[dobelover]

I travel with my 85 yo Mom. She is not very mobile and uses a wc and walker. DCL required a dr certificate, RCI and X did not. The DCL and RCI hc cabins are larger space wise but I thought the storage space was smaller. This will be our first X cruise on the Constellation. Will the cabin be large to accomodate the chair and walker? (we are in a sky suite) We book in advance to get the hc cabin so Mom can use the toilet and shower without assistance.

 

Sue

[KatUK]

It seems to me that the majority of compaints here are towards people who either set out to deceive by saying that they are handicapped when they are not, or who deliberately book a HA room "because it's bigger" without a thought for those who may genuinely need it.

 

As for the other group....those who are offered a HA room by either their travel agent or the cruise line.....I would imagine that when such an offer is made, you don't think of the negative effects on others, you just think of the benefits for yourself. Some may call this selfish, I personally find it human.

 

I have no experience of having a HA room on a cruise ship, but I did arrive at a hotel in Los Angeles once to discover we'd been given a HA room. Our initial delight at having such a large room soon disappeared when we discovered that there was no bathroom door (just a large archway) and that there was no screened shower. In all honesty, it was for these reasons and not because we were considering anyone's genuine needs that we asked to be moved to a "regular" room. In hindsight, I should have asked the hotel staff to move us "in case it's needed for a genuine handicapped person"......but I didn't. I was on vacation and the requirements of myself and my friend were all that I took into consideration. Does this make me a bad or selfish person? I hope not.

 

I also think that the cruise lines are at fault for allowing this to take place. And I was amazed to read that the person who booked a HA room uneccessarily was then upgraded to an ever larger HA room!! Wouldn't it have been much nicer if the cruise line had let the people with the real need for the HA room have the upgrade?

 

Let's just hope that the people who have booked such rooms in the past (with the belief that they'll be moved should a handicapped person need it) now realise that this rarely happens as it's too much hassle for the cruise line and will book a regular room like everyone else!

 

Kat x

[HeatherInFlorida]

It seems to me that the majority of compaints here are towards people who either set out to deceive by saying that they are handicapped when they are not, or who deliberately book a HA room "because it's bigger" without a thought for those who may genuinely need it.

 

As for the other group....those who are offered a HA room by either their travel agent or the cruise line.....I would imagine that when such an offer is made, you don't think of the negative effects on others, you just think of the benefits for yourself. Some may call this selfish, I personally find it human.

 

I have no experience of having a HA room on a cruise ship, but I did arrive at a hotel in Los Angeles once to discover we'd been given a HA room. Our initial delight at having such a large room soon disappeared when we discovered that there was no bathroom door (just a large archway) and that there was no screened shower. In all honesty, it was for these reasons and not because we were considering anyone's genuine needs that we asked to be moved to a "regular" room. In hindsight, I should have asked the hotel staff to move us "in case it's needed for a genuine handicapped person"......but I didn't. I was on vacation and the requirements of myself and my friend were all that I took into consideration. Does this make me a bad or selfish person? I hope not.

 

I also think that the cruise lines are at fault for allowing this to take place. And I was amazed to read that the person who booked a HA room uneccessarily was then upgraded to an ever larger HA room!! Wouldn't it have been much nicer if the cruise line had let the people with the real need for the HA room have the upgrade?

 

Let's just hope that the people who have booked such rooms in the past (with the belief that they'll be moved should a handicapped person need it) now realise that this rarely happens as it's too much hassle for the cruise line and will book a regular room like everyone else!

 

Kat x

 

Kat, absolutely! Very well said and an excellent point! Easier for HAL and no one gets moved!!!

[Queenie2]

see my blog. I addressed that topic today.

 

candy

[Umbarger]

Candy,

 

Wonderful blog. You should just post the whole thing. And e-mail it to Boo's mom. lol :-) Linda

[HeatherInFlorida]

Candy, fantastic blog!! So well said! Many thanks for the link ... love the way you write;).

 

However, I don't think it's quite true that "most" regular posters are disabled. What gave you that idea? I just love to cruise and I love the internet so here I am!

 

I'm came to this particular thread because I think fair should be fair whether you're disabled or not ... shouldn't only be disabled people speaking up for their own; we all should exercise, as you so aptly say, common courtesy.

[Queenie2]

I think most regular posters in *this* particular subsection of Crusie Critic are either disabled, have a friend or family member who is or have some other link to the disbaility community. Most also like to crusie or ar ethinking about it. My blog was speaking about a number of posts on different sights on this same issue, not necesarilly just CC posts. Sorry for the confusion.

 

Candy

[Hebe]

Candy

Just read your blog. You did a great job of this subject. Wish you would publish it for the general cruise population to see.

 

Last week I sent an email to the special needs department at RCL asking them to keep us in mind if a handicap room would open and please respond that our shower seat would be arranged so we could at least try to function in the regular room. Well here I sit --- still waiting for any type of reply.

[Queenie2]

Hebe:

 

You really have to keep on them (RCI). They are one of the more accommodating crusie lines, but you know what they say about the old squeaky wheel. Try calling, leaving messages and bugging the heck out of them. Again, squeaky wheel. Keep Squeaking! They tend to leave things till last minute, but usually they manage to get back to most people and get them the things they need. They are *really* understaffed.

 

Oh yes, my blog is available for all to read. I also do several syndicated columns and provide content to print and internet content to a number of outlets.

 

Candy

[Twickenham]

Reading all your posts, and I can certainly understand your frustration with AB passengers booking HC rooms. One thing you have to consider, from the cruise lines standpoint, is that they would certainly be willing to book an AB passenger in one of these rooms and then move them if needed by a HC passenger, since they can't be sure that any HC passengers will want to book the cruise - the lines are in the business of filling up their cabins, any way possible, and if they held every HC room 'till the last minute they would probably be looking at heavily discounting to fill them (or at least they're afraid they'd have to...). Of course, there's always some bozo trying to hog the extra space for himself - alas, this world is full of selfish people...:rolleyes: BTW, on our recent Diamond Princess cruise, our balcony cabin was 3 down from the HC cabins, and boy were they huge compared to ours! And I know at least one of them was occupied by a mother & daughter, both in wheelchairs, and the daughter's assistance dog, a lovely lab called Wickey, all of them very friendly!