Booking an accessible room

[Queenie2]

Hebe:

I just reread your post(s) and I may misread part of it the first time, so I just wanted to clarify a few things.

 

First I just wanted to make sure you are officially wait listed with RCI (I think you are but I just wanted to confirm this, as an e-mail request won't really suffice in this case)

 

Second, you mentioned a shower chair and although I'm not sure exactly what you need here, I have to say that there is no way a shower chair will work in a standard cabin on most RCI ships. The shower is tiny, with pretty much room to stand up and that's it (I call them "tubes"). Additionally the shower curtain (enclosure, not really a curtain) is made of hard plastic and it does not move like a normal shower curtain would. In any case, I don't know what your setup is, but I think you will have a very hard time with a shower chair/bench in a standard cabin.

 

Maybe I'm missing something here (or not reading something correctly), but I just wanted to give you the heads up on the bathroom situation so you wouldn't be caught off guard.

 

Candy

[atlmagic]

My DW "dragged" me on a 3 day cruise a month after I had gone through major surgery. I told the TA that I was temporarily disabled and she never offered any sort of special rooms.

 

I hobbled around with my cane and even passed out on night while waiting for an elevator.

 

You'd think thy would put those who need them in the right cabins. But alas..

 

I even got cussed out for taking a handicapped parking spot at the gym (I had a handicap card in my window) while I was recovering from a broken spine. It was the old joke, if you're disabled, why are you going to the gym?

Some people just dont have a clue.

[Oceanwench]

...with the clear understanding that we will be moved if a handicapped person requests an accessible room. The Carnival agent told us that we would be upgraded if we were moved, so we have nothing to lose as I see it. We are a party of three and would be thrilled with the extra room (who wouldn't?!?) but would move in a New York minute if necessary...

 

In my profession I work with people needing accessible facilities, and have a number of family members who need them as well. In no way am I trying to take away an accessible room from anyone who needs it - but I suppose some folks would do that and feel no remorse...

 

I am obviously the person accused of flaming the above quoted person.

 

The title of her post was "We booked an accessible room."

She did not mention in her original post that the TA booked it for her, suggested she take the HC room.

"We booked" is not the same as "We were booked into" -- the former indicates action on the part of the booker.

The latter is a passive verb ... not an active verb ...

So to write "We booked a handicapped room" indicates a person deliberately booked that cabin.

 

That is offensive to me and to many others.

 

The fact that the agent used it told her they would be upgraded if the room were needed further compounds the insult, as the poster writes "as I see it, we have nothing to lose."

That gives the impression that if an AB person books an HC cabin, that person is guaranteed one of two things: a "bigger" room or an upgrade.

 

So, why not?

Why not indeed.

What if everyone had this attitude?

Then the 28 HC rooms on the Westerdam [or the measly 4 on the Summit] would be booked in a heartbeat by those who soothe their consciences by telling themselves [and others] "I"ll move if a person with a handicap needs the room."

Yeah ... to an upgraded room.

What a scam!!!

I am truly worried that this attitude will catch on, and soon all the HC rooms will be booked ... um, in a New York minute ... so those pax can get a free upgrade.

 

Yes, I am insulted when someone uses that "Some of my best friends are ..." strategy to defend their choices and absolve them of any guilt.

 

You know what? If one of my sisters used that to knowingly book an HC room ... I'd be pretty angry at them.

"Well, my brother-in-law is handicapped, so I know what it's like, but I could really use the extra space."

[Oceanwench]

Reading all your posts, and I can certainly understand your frustration with AB passengers booking HC rooms. One thing you have to consider, from the cruise lines standpoint, is that they would certainly be willing to book an AB passenger in one of these rooms and then move them if needed by a HC passenger, since they can't be sure that any HC passengers will want to book the cruise - the lines are in the business of filling up their cabins, any way possible, and if they held every HC room 'till the last minute they would probably be looking at heavily discounting to fill them (or at least they're afraid they'd have to...).

 

Consider, however, the small number of HC rooms on each ship, and you will see the cruiselines have no fear of going out of business if they did not fill all their HC rooms.

 

Here's a small sample.

 

Carnival Fantasy has 1,028 rooms -- 22 are HC.

Carnival Ecstacy has 1,026 rooms -- 22 HC.

Celebrity Summit has 1,019 rooms -- 26 HC

Celebrity Century has 1,273 roms -- 8 HC

HAL Zuiderdam has 924 rooms -- 28 HC

HAL Veendam has 633 rooms -- 6 HC

RCCL Majesty of the Seas has 1,272 rooms -- 4 HC

Princess' Caribbean Princess has 1,557 rooms -- 25 HC

 

There is no way the cruise lines have to fill the HC rooms with AB people one year, six months, even six weeks out.

Do the math and look at the percentages of HC vs. total number of rooms.

 

Also, think about this. An AB person books an HC room. She is told by her TA that if the room is needed by a person with a handicap, she will be upgraded to another room.

I go to my TA to get an HC room for me and my husband -- he is in a wheelchair and cannot walk.

My TA goes online and looks at the numbers of the cabins available. What does she see?

Are there little notations next to some of the HC cabins that explain that there are AB people booked in those rooms?

Or does it just indicate that those rooms are not available, period?

 

Maybe an objective TA can answer that for us.

 

P.S. I have an error in my previous post about the Summit -- confused it with the Century and had the wrong number of HC rooms. I wrote the previous post before I started getting the actual numbers, and apparently my memory is faulty. We were trying to book the Century, not the Summit, and I knew the number of HC rooms was in the single digits.

[newbiecruiser54]

Oceanwench, please stop flaming my sister and assuming things about her that are totally untrue. We have explained in this thread that we were offered this room by the Carnival rep - We did NOT ask for a HC accessible room. Evidently the ship is so full that the Carnival rep spontaneously offered us this OV room instead of the other one available on Deck 2. We were told that if a handicapped party needed the cabin, we would be moved to a balcony cabin. We did not "ask" for any of this.

Of course "we booked" this room after it was offered by the Carnival rep. Why are you nitpicking over grammar and reading negative things into everything my sister posted??

If you had any idea what a wonderful person she is, you wouldn't be chastising her again for something you assume took place, but didn't.

[Oceanwench]

People who are disability activists need to open their mouths and stand up for their rights. That is what I have done.

Sorry you are so defensive.

 

I disagree with your assessment of my posts and do not consider them as flaming your sister.

Perhaps you are reading more into my posts than is there?

 

As far as nitpicking ... are you sure it is I who is the nitpicker?

[Jen_MN]

When we first looked into booking a cruise, we were going to book through a TA. The TA told us that there were no HC rooms left on that cruise. For some reason we decided to call RC and they said there was one left.

 

I'm wondering just how much TA's can do about HC rooms. Ours never offered to call RC and see about any others being open, and obviously TA's only have phone numbers for people they have booked. Even if they were willing to take the time to call their customers who booked HC rooms to see if they really needed them, it would only amount to a very small number of people who booked HC rooms. They wouldn't be able to call all RC passengers who booked HC rooms on that cruise.

 

We ended up getting a cheaper rate from RC, so it all kinda worked out for us. :)

[Umbarger]

Oceanwench,

 

I support you. You are in the right.

 

I dont know how AB people in handicapped cabins (whether it be offered by Carnival or TA) can walk past handicapped people on their cruise and be able to sleep in their nice big cabins. I'm sorry but I wouldnt be able to sleep at night.

 

Funny how her original post said she booked a handicapped room and then changed her story real quick after the negative posts.

 

People are always trying to justify their decisions.

 

Linda

[Hebe]

Cindy

We had it waitlisted by the TA and I also spoke to Special needs. I was told that we had to pick which room to waitlisted which tells me we are not in an open pool. Can I get in an open pool.

 

As far as chair in shower -- we have only been on Celebrity and the chair worked in those showers. Are the Jewel of the Sea rooms smaller than the Constellation rooms? Husband must sit down to bathe. Has no sense of balance. Now you got we worried.

 

I know what you mean about can people sleep at night. We had the room next to the handicap room on one cruise. I asked to see it since we had it booked for the next cruise. LOL -- people appeared to be two AB people. I wondered if they felt at all guilty seeing me with husband in wheelchair and how we had to get him out of chair to get chair in door.

[Queenie2]

Well, now you’ve got me Hebe. I’ve never been in a standard (non-accessible) room aboard the Constellation so I'm not sure what you are comparing it to; however from viewing the deck plans the showers do look considerably larger on Celebrity in the Deluxe OV stateroom category

http://www.celebrity.com/plancruise/ships/cabinclass/cabintype/home.do;jsessionid=0000Ee4f9FHUCkUoKVaudQn4Cc4:1028etqv2?br=C&cabinType=DO&cabincls=B&shipCode=CS

 

As compared to those on Jewel of the Seas

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/findacruise/cabinclass/cabinTypes/cabinType/cabin/home.do;jsessionid=0000WlQ_GGy6FHH5CfFRQdkEqi3:v2mocb1m?br=R&cabincls=O&cabinType=LO&shipCode=JW

 

It’s a bad diagram for Jewel, but the showers are round (tube-like). Hard to explain.

 

I’d hate to say it would be impossible, (because there is always an exception to the rule) but they are pretty tight. Perhaps somebody else has comments on this?

 

Edited to add, you might want to call the access department and ask for the inside dimmensions of the shower. Again it's going to be hard, because it's not square, but at least that way you will have a good idea.

 

Candy Harrington

[HeatherInFlorida]

I feel so badly that Oceanwench feels she has to explain herself. And I have a problem with people who say things like "I'm having one last say and then I'm gone". If having the last word is important, this works.

 

I thought Zanaree had explained herself and if what she posted is so, then I can't see carrying on with her anymore about it. And I really don't believe she was flamed here. It appeared to me that people just felt it was not fair to book an HC cabin if they didn't need it. If it was offered by the cruiseline, then they're the ones at fault. But piling insults on top of insults benefits no one.

At the end of the day we should all be considerate of people. In this case that consideration should extend to people with a disability who would be more than happy to change places with those of us not disabled, and book an ordinary room, any day of the week.

I don't think anyone can argue with that.

[smoosh21]

I agree that people do need to speak up about the HC rooms. Having a parent who is disabled, I understand the frustration that comes up during travel. Unfortunately, many people are ignorant about the problems the disabled face. A few years ago my mother had to throw a holy fit because the hotel they were staying at claimed they ran out of the HC rooms (after one was already reserved). The hotel then claimed that they did not have any available shower chairs. It took over two hours of arguing with most of the hotel staff before they were finally able to 'find' one. If it wasn't for the ADA I am sure they never would have gotten one and my father would have been unable to clean up for the wedding they were attending.

 

Since the HC room had been reserved at this hotel, it wouldn't surprise me that someone went up to the desk when they checked in and asked for the room wanting the 'extra space', or a clueless hotel staffer told a guess "why not just take the HC room".

[Shebbieal]

Candy,

 

Just a heads up. We were on Brilliance (sister ship to Jewel) and my uncle had a shower seat in a standard oceanview, he said it was fine.

 

Sherry

 

P.S. Thanks for Emerging Horizons and your book about accessible travel, lots of useful info!

[Queenie2]

It's true, AB passengers do end up in accessible cabins, for a number of reasons. In the majority of cases, there is no malicious intent and the passengers say "I'm willing to give up the accessible cabin if somebody with a disability needs it." I have to believe in most cases they are sincere.

 

The problem is, that once a cabin is booked, generally speaking the cruise lines don't monitor or flag cabins as being occupied by an AB. They just don't have the staff, the time or the inclination to do so. So, if somebody subsequently needs an accessible cabin, there is no way of knowing that one could be made available by asking the AB passenger to move. There are exceptions to this, such as people calling in favors, knowing the right folks to ask or knowing some other tricks, but the *average* travel agent (or passenger) will just be told that no accessible cabins are available.

 

And yes, there are unscrupulous people who do lie to book the accessible rooms, but that is a whole other issue.

 

And to some extent this same issue occurs on land. Nothing in the ADA states that a hotel has to "block" an accessible room for a guest. It is perfectly legal for them to treat this as a "request" (just like a request for an ocean-view room). They key there is to make sure the hotel will block the room (you need to ask this before you make your reservation). If they won't, then find another place. The majority of hotels today have the software capability to block rooms and they will do this (again they are not required by any law to do this). And it should be noted that "block" is not the same thing as "guarantee".

 

OK, a little off topic, but still a valid comment.

 

Candy

[joelmarj]

smoosh21 - you raise a very interesting point about the hotels. I am AB and never request a HC room on a cruise (or hotels). However, when I travel I always request a no-smoking room in hotels. I can't stand the smell and hate the way it clings to my clothes. Seems that hotels don't really distinguish what you had on your reservation, so I don't know that I would blame someone for "taking" the room from you. Hotels apparently work on a first come-first serve basis. Can't tell you how many times I've shown up for my reservation only to be told - sorry, only smoking available. How could that be when I had a no-smoking reserved. They can't even claim they didn't know if I was showing due to a late arrival because they had my credit card and would charge me anyway. I've also frequently been given a HC room in hotels without ever asking. They just give you what is available. Now looking back I may very well have deprived someone of their HC room without any intent.

 

I don't argue with anything the posters have said regarding HC rooms on the ships. If you are disabled you should have priority of their assignment. I also think that there is a population of people who don't really care, but get it by "default". TA indicates that it's all that's left in the catagory they want. To the few who book it with intent - that is just wrong. Perhaps a premium should be assessed unless you can prove necessity. The premium could be the equivelent of the next upgraded room, thus discouraging picking that one over an upgrade. But if you demonstrate a true need with a dr note, the premium is waived. Of course you'll never get past the people who will find a dr to scam the process, but unfortunately those people exist everywhere and will go out of their way to find the loop holes.

 

The cruiselines should hold the HC cabins up to 30 days prior to sailing. After that it's fair game to anyone who wants to book at the going rate. I don't think it would be unreasonable at that point. I know that if I want a certain catagory or room, I don't expect it to be available on short notice. This way the cruiseline can "fill the ship" if they can, without having to let a few HC go empty. Meets the supply/deman needs.

 

JMO, hopefully I've not offended anyone. Just trying to think of happy mediums. We all love and should be able to travel. When we spend our hard earned dollars, we want it to be a pleasant experience.

[Oceanwench]

Heather & Linda: Thank you for your support.

 

Those of you who know me from the HAL board know I am not a contentious person. :)

 

I was making a point: AB people should not book an HC cabin.

Not as a "guarantee" and not as "extra space."

 

Look at the numbers of HC cabins on the various ships, and you realize the percentage of HC cabins is small. Many people with handicaps are shut out of a cruise when those HC cabins are booked by AB people.

As Candy said, the cruise industry is not about to start flagging the HC cabins booked by AB persons, so as to move those AB persons if a person with a handicap needs the cabin.

 

I have no problem with the cruise lines setting a deadline maybe 30 days out from the cruise -- and allowing AB persons to book the HC cabins at that point. But they should not book them any earlier.

 

This whole thing reminds me of the AB people who park in HC spaces "Just to run in and pick up a pizza, the dry cleaning, a video ..."

They justify it ... it's only a minute ...

But a person who needs that space sees it filled and has to drive elsewhere to park. I can't tell you how often that has happened to me. The video store is the worst!

 

As far as hotel rooms, DH and I have only had a problem once, when our reserved HC room was not available -- and they were able to get us a room at a nearby hotel.

More often we get our HC room and find that it does not have a roll-in shower! That means DH cannot bathe, and that is very upsetting!

 

If there is a guaranteed booking of an HC room, then the hotel should never give that room away. If the person booking it does not show up, he/she should be charged anyway.

 

Bottom line: I see a trend with more and more AB people boasting that they are booking an HC cabin for the space. Or other AB people looking at an HC as a win-win situation for them: either they get a bigger room, or they get a free upgrade.

 

All it takes is for 28 people to feel that way about a certain cruise next fall, and DH and I will be shut out.

Maybe we'd better book this minute.

[Queenie2]

Oceanwench:

 

Just a FYI, technically an "accessible room" (hotel room that is) does not have to have a roll-in shower. In fact, properties with less than 50 rooms are not required to have any rooms with roll-in showers (in the USA). So if you need a hotel room with a roll-in shower you have to specifically state that you need a roll-in (and sometimes you have to ask for this a number of time because the clerks don't understand this either). I'm not saying this to be a stickler or anything, but just to give you the heads up and hopefully prevent any future problems (for you and others that read that read this). There are fewer rooms with roll-in showers (as opposed to those with tub/shower combos).

 

Bathrooms (showers) are this strange personal preference issue. By that I mean I know wheelchair-users who hate roll-in showers (can't use them) and need/want a tub/shower combo. In the end, it usually boils down to what you are familiar with using at home.

 

As far as "guarenteed" (the terminology); in hotel-speak it means your rate is guaranteed and you will have a room (any room) when you arrive. Blocking means a specific guest will get a specific room. So you have to ask for the room to be blocked rather than guaranteed if you need an accessible room. This is just for hotel rooms, not cruise ships.

 

 

 

Candy

[Umbarger]

Cindy

We had it waitlisted by the TA and I also spoke to Special needs. I was told that we had to pick which room to waitlisted which tells me we are not in an open pool. Can I get in an open pool.

 

As far as chair in shower -- we have only been on Celebrity and the chair worked in those showers. Are the Jewel of the Sea rooms smaller than the Constellation rooms? Husband must sit down to bathe. Has no sense of balance. Now you got we worried.

 

I know what you mean about can people sleep at night. We had the room next to the handicap room on one cruise. I asked to see it since we had it booked for the next cruise. LOL -- people appeared to be two AB people. I wondered if they felt at all guilty seeing me with husband in wheelchair and how we had to get him out of chair to get chair in door.

 

 

Yes Hebe, you are correct. When I tried to WL a HC cabin on RCL they said I could only WL one HC cabin and asked which one I wanted to WL. I asked if I WL HC101 and HC102 became available that I wouldnt be called? I was told "no" HC 101 would have to open up. What sense is there in this? I wish there was an open WL. I just had to hope the cabin # I choose to WL would open up. It's like a lottery. You would think a cruise line with any good computer system would have an open WL system. By the way, when I tried to WL they refused to check the HC cabins and make sure the pax booked in these rooms were actually needing a HC cabin.

 

As to looking at the HC room next to yours. If I had been booked in that HC cabin and a handicapped person came in to look at it. Call me crazy. but I would have switched cabins with them. That would make me sick.

 

Linda

[Oceanwench]

Candy,

 

Thanks for the information.

My husband is also a disability writer -- and has a law degree -- so he pretty much knows the ADA inside and out.

 

I realize many HC hotel rooms do not have roll-in showers -- and perhaps I needed to be more detailed on my post.

DH always specifies a roll-in shower and is always assured that he will have one. But many desk clerks must not realize that all HC rooms are not created equal -- and they often book us in rooms with regular tubs.

In our case, a roll-in shower is the only way DH can get washed up ... he could not lift his legs over a bathtub, or even cross a slight threshhold into a regular shower.

 

As for guarantees ... we have always had a guarantee on an HC room, and one has always been available [except for that one case, and the internet co. that booked it was to blame].

When we make reservations we ask for an HC room with a roll-in shower, non-smoking, etc.

And that is what we get when we arrive.

I don't see why a hotel would do otherwise.

[Umbarger]

Oceanwench,

 

New postings on Zuiderdam 1/29 review. Please tell me what you think?

 

Linda

[CaptData]

Another problem is with TA's. A friend who was a first time cruise went to a TA and the TA booked the room. A month before sailing my friend told me of her trip. She booked a year in advance because of work thing. She told me the ship and cabin number. I looked it up and told her she was in a HC. She asked what that was. I explained, she was horrified that she was given it. She phoned her TA who told her that if she switched cabins now it would cost her an extra $1300 (cdn). I told her to tell her TA to talk with the Cruiseline and see if she could be switched for free as she was not HC nor her husband. Her TA said no. I think the TA wanted more money. I have heard of other first timers getting HC too.

 

The other problem is a TAwho wants you to save money. I was on the Dawn Princess when I met a couple who's husband was MS. I am MS. We talked about our cabins, their TA thought that they would get a better deal and save 300 dollars if they went GTY. Yep, they saved money and ended up in the worst cabin for him. His wheelchair was outside and the Steward had to help him into the room. They had an HC but the TA thought that they would get upgraded (they were but to a non-hc). The TA gave that HC to another clint as we ran into him and the couple reconized him. He told us his TA worked very hard to get him this upgrade. His room was an HC that came up at last minute. He and his wife loved it. He told us he was going to reward his TA. When the one couple introduced themselfs, he became upset. So it is not always the people in them, sometimes it is a bad TA who gets rewarded for doing a good job.

[amenuensis]

Saw this thread and thought I'd share my experience so far - I am arranging a group cruise on Holland America (Zaandam in August 2005) and one person in my group, who was booked with his wife into a Category E guarantee, had a health crisis recently and just last week had his leg amputated below the knee (staph infection from previous foot operation). So his wife emailed our online TA to ask about getting a HC stateroom for our August cruise, no response, then I tried contacting her (our TA), and got an email back that she was swamped but would call us both in the evening. We waited, no call to either of us, so today I called her office (she was off for the next two days) and INSISTED on getting an answer from someone. Very nice woman got on the phone, she listened sympathetically to my story, then immediately called HAL with me waiting on the line, and here's what they told her: There were no HC staterooms left in ANY categories on our sailing, BUT she (the TA) should fax a letter to their "Ship Inventory" department requesting a HC stateroom and detailing the reasons for the request. They said they "many people book HC cabins who don't need really them" so they should be able to "bump" someone to make room for my friends. I realize this is a special circumstance but it is encouraging to know that they are aware of the problem and have a plan in place to deal with it. They did not ask for a doctor's note but my friend is going to get one just in case. I don't know how they know who to bump, perhaps they just ask and offer upgrades until they find one willing to give up their HC.

 

Having said all this, it's possible they may cancel altogether, they both want very much to go on this cruise but this has been so traumatic for them, it's such a drastic and unexpected change and they are not sure they can handle all the travel to and from the airport, luggage, shore excursions, etc. I hope they don't cancel. If any of you are amputees and have any sage advice to offer, have at it.

[Queenie2]

The Amputee Coalition of America is an excellent resource for new amputees. They have an excellent peer support/counseling network and they offer free resources and advice on everything from getting a prosthesis and body image issues to day to day living (even travel - I’ve spoken a t a few of their conventions and for the large part this is a group that is really interested in travel). Their website is http://www.amputee-coalition.org. I highly recommend them.

 

Aug. may be too soon for them to travel -- that is something they will have to decide on for themselves. Everyone progresses at a different pace. But it helps to have peer support, and the ACA is excellent at that. And it's free.

 

Candy Harrington

[amenuensis]

Thanks I'll forward that URL to my friends, he's just been fitted for a prosthesis but I guess it take awhile to actually get it.

 

The Amputee Coalition of America is an excellent resource for new amputees. They have an excellent peer support/counseling network and they offer free resources and advice on everything from getting a prosthesis and body image issues to day to day living (even travel - I’ve spoken a t a few of their conventions and for the large part this is a group that is really interested in travel). Their website is http://www.amputee-coalition.org. I highly recommend them.

 

Aug. may be too soon for them to travel -- that is something they will have to decide on for themselves. Everyone progresses at a different pace. But it helps to have peer support, and the ACA is excellent at that. And it's free.

 

Candy Harrington

[flyhoney]

we could put this thread on the **regular** board in hopes of the appropriate cruise lines being more alert and attentive to the boorish attitude of the AB people booking HC rooms.

 

BTW, I am AB but my mom is an amputee. Fortunately, I haven't had any problems...yet. There has to be a way to bring this to the forefront for management to address.

 

Okay....who's the board host....is it still **LAURA STERLING**????

 

Calling Laura Sterling! :eek:

 

Sue