Trip Report - Carnival Glory 6/24 - CRAPS

[Dicenator]

grod 19,

 

You are pretty much correct with my record keeping. I'm a Quality Engineer by profession and deal with numbers and statistics every day. Some of the reasons that I keep track of my throws is:

 

1- I have 4 different ways of throwing the dice. Which one I use depends on the table position I can get and the type of table, neutral bounce versus extremely bouncy. I also make changes to my throw over time. By tracking my rolls I can say which throwing method is my best way to go and should I change it on a different table.

 

2- It allows me to know what numbers I throw the most with each type of throw. This tells you which numbers you should be betting on.

 

3- There are probably hundreds or thousands of different ways to bet. By having a record of my throws for each hand I can paper play different betting schemes to try to figure out which ones or type of betting strategy will work the best with my throws.

 

Dicenator

[Mr. Luckytoo]

Just let us know which cruises you will be going on in the future ok Dicenator? :cool:

[Dicenator]

Mr. Luckytoo,

 

I haven't booked it yet but it looks like my next cruise will be on April 16, 2011 on the Celebrity Summit. It's a 7 day cruise leaving from San Juan.

 

You should be aware that I don't win as often as you think I do. No matter how good you may be it's still craps and anything can happen.

 

Dicenator

[MrCo9]

You seem skeptical about dice influencing. Without keeping track of a players hand length over time how would you know if this player has any ability to roll longer hands on average than the average chicken feeder. Some people doubt that it can be done whereas others have proof that it can be done. Proof wins out over doubt every time.

 

Dicenator

Skeptical? Me? Nope not at all. I know it does not exisit. What tells me that? 12 years of experience sitting behind or standing over different dice tables. I see the dice setters come and go. When dealing or supervising I have a 95% accuracy of predicting within 3 rolls when a shooter will end his roll. Wish I had the same accuracy when I play. I will call my bets off when I feel a 7 is going to roll. Sometimes I'm right, sometimes I'm not.

 

Do I think you or anyone else can predict or influence the dice? NO SIR. If you think you do, that's fine, it's thinking like that keeps our doors open. Only time I have seen anyone with any accuracy toss the dice and control how they land is when they do not hit the back wall of the table. Know what we do when that happens? "No roll" "Shooter hit the back wall or we will pass the dice to the next shooter". Those little pyramids are there for a reason, to make sure the dice change trajectory when they hit it, that way the outcome will be random.

 

I have seen a shooter go from holding the dice for 20-40 minute one roll to point 7 the next time they get the dice. Same position, same dice set, virtually same arc when the dice are tossed and land in the same spot only this time the top of one matches the bottom of the other. "7 out, new shooter".

[MrCo9]

You seem skeptical about dice influencing. Without keeping track of a players hand length over time how would you know if this player has any ability to roll longer hands on average than the average chicken feeder. Some people doubt that it can be done whereas others have proof that it can be done. Proof wins out over doubt every time.

 

Dicenator

Skeptical? Me? Nope not at all. I know it does not exisit. What tells me that? 12 years of experience sitting behind or standing over different dice tables. I see the dice setters come and go. When dealing or supervising I have a 95% accuracy of predicting within 3 rolls when a shooter will end his roll. Wish I had the same accuracy when I play. I will call my bets off when I feel a 7 is going to roll. Sometimes I'm right, sometimes I'm not.

 

Do I think you or anyone else can predict or influence the dice? NO SIR. If you think you do, that's fine, it's thinking like that keeps our doors open. Only time I have seen anyone with any accuracy toss the dice and control how they land is when they do not hit the back wall of the table. Know what we do when that happens? "No roll" "Shooter hit the back wall or we will pass the dice to the next shooter". Those little pyramids are there for a reason, to make sure the dice change trajectory when they hit it, that way the outcome will be random.

 

I have seen a shooter go from holding the dice for 20-40 minute one roll to point 7 the next time they get the dice. Same position, same dice set, virtually same arc when the dice are tossed and land in the same spot only this time the top of one matches the bottom of the other. "7 out, new shooter".

[Dicenator]

You are entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. Yes there are a lot of dice setters who think they can influence the dice who really can't. To know for sure you would have to know their number of rolls per hand over many thousands of rolls or over years of time. A random roller will average a 7 out every 6 rolls after establishing a point. If a player averages 8 throws per hand after establishing the point over years of time and 10,000 rolls of the dice would you say that maybe he has some ability to influence the outcome of the dice? You say there are no Dice Influencers, I say there are some but the number is limited. Do you know who Frank Scoblete is? Has he ever played craps where you work? Just wondering if you think that he has any skill or is a charlatan?

 

Dicenator

[Mr. Luckytoo]

I have seen a shooter go from holding the dice for 20-40 minute one roll to point 7 the next time they get the dice. Same position, same dice set, virtually same arc when the dice are tossed and land in the same spot only this time the top of one matches the bottom of the other. "7 out, new shooter".

 

Yeah it's called a DP (double pitch), usually due to a slight misangulation of one dice hitting before the other...oops that's right you're a non-believer - sorry :cool:

[MrCo9]

Do you two listen to and believe everything George Nori's guests have to say on Coast-to-Coast AM as well?

[Dicenator]

Sorry, I've never heard of George Nori. I believe in what I see with my own eyes not what someone may say.

 

Dicenator

[Casino Player]

Sorry, I've never heard of George Nori. I believe in what I see with my own eyes not what someone may say.

 

Dicenator

 

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO Dicenator: I have been reading your messages. You keep doing whatever it is you do. I have seen others with notebooks logging down numbers that are rolled as they play. Who knows why it is done or who cares. They may be systems players, as I said and I quote, "who cares"? As long as you have a good time while you play and/or want the information for whatever personal reasons no one else should care what you are doing.

[Mr. Luckytoo]

there is a certain saying that all pit critters should learn:

 

Those that can do - do

 

Those that can't do - teach

 

Those that can't teach criticize, berate and belittle those that can :cool:

 

Finally

 

dooby dooby doo-doo-doo - Frank Sinatra

[Mr. Luckytoo]

As long as you have a good time while you play and/or want the information for whatever personal reasons no one else should care what you are doing.

 

Ditto :cool:

[Yo Eleven]

I have a 95% accuracy of predicting within 3 rolls when a shooter will end his roll.

This is the biggest load of crap I have ever read on this forum. And it makes me laugh! hahaha

there is a certain saying that all pit critters should learn:

 

Those that can do - do

 

Those that can't do - teach

 

Those that can't teach criticize, berate and belittle those that can :cool:

 

Finally

 

dooby dooby doo-doo-doo - Frank Sinatra

Amen!

[evergladesgator]

Ther goes MR. LOONEY again with the laughs. Something is wrong with this one. Sounds like a half bubble off center.

[echo_park_loco]

The reason I find almost all "system" discussions to be humorous is that there is only one real system. Quit while you are ahead - and leave before you loose too much.

 

There are 6 possible ways to throw 7 out of 36 possible throws. Those are the odds. Doesn't matter whether you toss them - drop them - heave them from a cup - etc - (they won't let you rub them on the felt to heat them up - or not hit the wall) - the odds are the same.

 

We all know that the least house advantage is the pass line and 6&8 straight up. Play those and hope that you have more positive runs and negative ones. Any other bets have a better house advantage - although they make the game more fun.

 

-echo

[MrCo9]

We all know that the least house advantage is the pass line and 6&8 straight up. Play those and hope that you have more positive runs and negative ones. Any other bets have a better house advantage - although they make the game more fun.

 

-echo

Actually Mr. Loco, buying the 4 and 10 has a lower house advantage than placing the 6 or 8. Granted the 6 and 8 will hit more often, but the 4 and 10 when bought is the better bet.

[AndyTheK]

Actually Mr. Loco, buying the 4 and 10 has a lower house advantage than placing the 6 or 8. Granted the 6 and 8 will hit more often, but the 4 and 10 when bought is the better bet.

Not so. The BUY on 4/10 is better than the PLACE on 4/10, but they are not better than the place on 6/8. Even if the vig is only charged on wins (which is very rare these days) or they let you do things like buy $39 for a $1 vig. If I am mistaken, please link us to your reference. My figures come from wizardofodds.com

 

Shalom, Andy.

[MrCo9]

You are correct Andy. I realized my error as I was trying to sleep last night, running the numbers through my noggin. A buy on the 4 or 10 gives the house a 5% advantage (the vig charged) a place bet on the 6 or 8 has a 3.33% or 2.857% house advantage, depending on if it's figured on the amount of the bet or the amount of the payoff.

 

A $30 place bet will pay $35 a $30 odds bet will pay $36. $1/$30 = 3.33% $1/$35 = 2.857%.

[LSTEFFA]

Actually Mr. Loco, buying the 4 and 10 has a lower house advantage than placing the 6 or 8. Granted the 6 and 8 will hit more often, but the 4 and 10 when bought is the better bet.

Buying the 4 and/or ten by paying the 5% vig gives the house an edge of 4.76%. Placing the 6 and/or 8 has a house edge of 1.52%....:rolleyes: which bet looks better??

[Dicenator]

Just a slight correction to your post. Yes there are 6 ways to roll a 7 out of 36 possibilities but this is for random rolls. Someone who just picks them up, rattles them in their hand and lets them fly is a random thrower.

 

Suppose someone sets the dice exactly the same for every throw, grips them the same way for every throw, throws them exactly the same way every throw landing them in the same spot on the table every throw. I would say that this person has removed some randomness from the equation. You might say yes but the rubber pyramids will randomize the dice. Yes they will, but a good Dice Influencer attempts to have the dice hit on the bottom of the rubber below the pyramids.

 

I personally have made probably over 10,000 throws in casinos over the last 2 1/2 years with an average throw length of around 8.3 throws per hand not counting the comeout throws. A random thrower will average 6.0.

 

Dicenator

[grod19]

Just a slight correction to your post. Yes there are 6 ways to roll a 7 out of 36 possibilities but this is for random rolls. Someone who just picks them up, rattles them in their hand and lets them fly is a random thrower.

 

Suppose someone sets the dice exactly the same for every throw, grips them the same way for every throw, throws them exactly the same way every throw landing them in the same spot on the table every throw. I would say that this person has removed some randomness from the equation. You might say yes but the rubber pyramids will randomize the dice. Yes they will, but a good Dice Influencer attempts to have the dice hit on the bottom of the rubber below the pyramids.

 

I personally have made probably over 10,000 throws in casinos over the last 2 1/2 years with an average throw length of around 8.3 throws per hand not counting the comeout throws. A random thrower will average 6.0.

 

Dicenator

 

Devils Advocate Warning......on a moving ship, kinda defeats the purpose. Being a engineer I completely agree that if a shooter can do EVERYTHING the exact same everytime the results will be the same however on a moving ship good luck.

 

That being said, I'll still bet with the DI

[MrCo9]

Just a slight correction to your post. Yes there are 6 ways to roll a 7 out of 36 possibilities but this is for random rolls. Someone who just picks them up, rattles them in their hand and lets them fly is a random thrower.

 

Suppose someone sets the dice exactly the same for every throw, grips them the same way for every throw, throws them exactly the same way every throw landing them in the same spot on the table every throw. I would say that this person has removed some randomness from the equation. You might say yes but the rubber pyramids will randomize the dice. Yes they will, but a good Dice Influencer attempts to have the dice hit on the bottom of the rubber below the pyramids.

 

I personally have made probably over 10,000 throws in casinos over the last 2 1/2 years with an average throw length of around 8.3 throws per hand not counting the comeout throws. A random thrower will average 6.0.

 

Dicenator

You may get them in the same area, but I bet if the edges of the dice were colored in a way that they left marks on the table you would see that they land at different angles and in different spots thereby negating all your prepwork. Unless you were able to make them land right against the base of the wall with no bounce at all, your roll is going to be random.

[Dicenator]

grod 19,

 

I've played craps on 5 cruises now and I don't see any detrimental effects on my throwing from the ships motion. I've never felt any up and down motion only an occasional side to side motion. My throwing performance is just as good as in a land casino or as bad depending on your viewpoint.

 

Dicenator

[grod19]

grod 19,

 

I've played craps on 5 cruises now and I don't see any detrimental effects on my throwing from the ships motion. I've never felt any up and down motion only an occasional side to side motion. My throwing performance is just as good as in a land casino or as bad depending on your viewpoint.

 

Dicenator

 

I am not making the argument that the shooter can't hit the exact same spot everytime, I am making the argument that even the slightest variation in the tables position (lets say 5 degrees of tilt) will absolutely change the results of how they land.

 

Being a DI, you are trying to minimize variations and variables therefore altering probability, however by shooting on a moving ship you are introducing a completely uncontrolable variable.

 

Take the best DI in the world shooting on the exact same table on a cruise ship vs a land based casino and I will bet the DI will shoot better on land due to the lack of the motion.

[mr. cruiser]

Take the best DI in the world shooting on the exact same table on a cruise ship vs a land based casino and I will bet the DI will shoot better on land due to the lack of the motion.

What odds are you offering on that bet;):D