Tragic and Scary St. Thomas Shooting

[gymjunkie]

I agree with Rhitson88: we should have bases on the VIs...rotate the troops coming out of Iraq/Afghanistan to protect paradise??? They would gladly take control of the islands from some punk gangs if they could spend some time on the beach and maybe take some high 5s from the tourist Americans who vacation safely next to them....bless you and our troops, and prayers to the familys.....

[grekar]

We visited Coki Beach two years ago and in my review after our return I expressed our feeling that it was not a good choice and we would not recommend it to others. The area leading to Coki was filled with debris. I am sure that many good people are working in that area just trying to make a living but I wanted to let other families know how uncomfortable we were during our visit. My heart also goes out to the family who lost their daughter.

[Iamcruzin]

Ok I have read some of these replies and I am gobsmacked. Is it true that after a shooting out of the tens of thousands of cruisers that go to St Thomas on a weekly basis, and many hundreds of thousands of cruisers that go to St Thomas every year that people are now saying... "I'll say close to the ship..." or "I won't feel safe..." or "..."???

 

Why? Do you stop going to Los Angeles because there is a shooting? or what about any major city???? The only reason you heard about this is because it was picked up by this site. If it hadn't, would you feel any less safe next time???

 

Someone explain it to me... please!!!!!

 

I live in NY so I can’t explain it. Between the terrorist attacks, exploding manhole covers, canes falling, muggers, murders, drug sniffing dogs and metal detectors in the schools it’s a miracle I am still alive. I think I will take my chances in St Thomas for the few hours that I am there.

[Hunwolf]

Murders in USVI in 2009: 56 (35 on St. Thomas)

Murders in the city of Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, in 2009: 1,986

 

Ciudad Juarez has 15 times the resident population of USVI.

 

I mention this only because I have read bloggers elsewhere write that USVI has the highest crime rate in the world. Not remotely true, but unfortunately, USVI is rapidly approaching the crime rate of Jamaica, which most Americans appreciate is very high.

 

Just to head off criticism, I do realize that the daily population of USVI is raised by the thousands of tourists who are there every day, thus lowering somewhat its effective homicide rate. Still, by any measure it is high. The good news is that it is mostly directed between gangs, but as the present tragedy shows, it can affect innocents at any time.

 

Bill

 

Juarez has a population of 1.5 million

St. Thomas has a resident population of ~52,000

 

or roughly 29 times that of St. Thomas. So the per capita number is actually pretty close...:(

[pms4104]

Insights into the island problems, from a local St. Thomas newspaper: http://stthomassource.com/content/news/local-news/2010/01/12/drugs-gangs-and-guns-fueling-caribbean-wide-crime-surge

[Rhitson88]

The military is not allowed to be used as a police force within the USA. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act)

 

 

 

I do apologize, I was unaware that our current government followed all the rules. Acts can be overturned if necessary. As long as it is passed through senate. I was aware of the Act but if it does become more common then another force would need to be used. It would not be used as a police force, it would basically be like whats going on in Iraq if it gets worse.

[Rhitson88]

I agree with Rhitson88: we should have bases on the VIs...rotate the troops coming out of Iraq/Afghanistan to protect paradise??? They would gladly take control of the islands from some punk gangs if they could spend some time on the beach and maybe take some high 5s from the tourist Americans who vacation safely next to them....bless you and our troops, and prayers to the familys.....

 

 

 

That would be something awesome lol. It would be well deserved after spending so much time over seas.

[SherriffJoe]

The military is not allowed to be used as a police force within the USA. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act)

 

Don't believe everything you read on Al Gore's internet, unless all those National Guard troops deployed all over the United States college campus's in the 60's were all an illusion....

[Rhitson88]

Don't believe everything you read on Al Gore's internet, unless all those National Guard troops deployed all over the United States college campus's in the 60's were all an illusion....

 

 

 

I once again say, when it is necessary, everything is thrown out. I mean, whos gonna do anything about it? And its not like its gonna start a war. Its our territory!!! Nobody says they have to be fully dressed or set up watch towers and walk around with big AKs. Just letting them know your presence is there.

[Shelly97060]

What a tragedy. My Thoughts and prayers go out to the family.

[caribill]

Don't believe everything you read on Al Gore's internet, unless all those National Guard troops deployed all over the United States college campus's in the 60's were all an illusion....

 

The National Guard is under the command of each state's governor in the situation you described. The army is never under the command of a governor.

[1 HappyCruiser]

We visited Coki Beach two years ago and in my review after our return I expressed our feeling that it was not a good choice and we would not recommend it to others. The area leading to Coki was filled with debris. I am sure that many good people are working in that area just trying to make a living but I wanted to let other families know how uncomfortable we were during our visit. My heart also goes out to the family who lost their daughter.

 

I found, like yourself, that the area around Coki beach was filthy. Sure the water was great for snorkeling but who wants to walk past a garbage dump that hasn't been cleaned since the hurricane hit the island 20 years ago? Did you take notice of all the rubbish people throw down the hill behind the beach? Old washing machines, tires, and anything else they don't want. The place is a dump I we would never go back when there are so many better places to go on St Thomas. I can't understand why the local government doesn't hire someone to clean up the place. This garbage obviously wasn't put there by tourists and it the only beach that I know of that's littered with junk. :mad:

[kendon]

I wonder how much pressure the cruise industry puts on these island to clean up their act, especially near popular tourist areas.

[billie5]

Hunwolf, 56 was the number of homicides for all of USVI, which has a population of 102,000. While St. Thomas does have a resident population of 52,000, its homicide total of 35 still gives it only half the rate of C. Juarez. However, if you restrict to only St. Thomas, its population increases even more dramatically due to tourism, hence a corresponding lowering of the homicide rate.

 

Bill

[Iamcruzin]

The military is not allowed to be used as a police force within the USA. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act)

 

Be careful when you quote Wikipedia it isn't always a reliable source of information. Anyone can post whatever they want at anytime even if it's false. If the statement is true can someone explain what the military men and women are doing in Penn Station and the NYC subway system dressed in full gear and carrying guns if they are not policing the area?

[camarodrivenrs]

Be careful when you quote Wikipedia it isn't always a reliable source of information. Anyone can post whatever they want at anytime even if it's false. If the statement is true can someone explain what the military men and women are doing in Penn Station and the NYC subway system dressed in full gear and carrying guns if they are not policing the area?

 

Its been a while since our government followed the laws.

 

I'm surprised so many of you still go on cruises using this logic, after all the Titanic did sink and hundreds died.

[billie5]

I am not going to even touch the silly post about the Titanic.

 

However, while it is true that Wikipedia can not always be trusted, in this case the poster seems to be referring to the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, which explicitly forbids the use of the national military for domestic policing (but not the national guard, of course). The problem is that over the years the use of the military at the federal level has been expanded, especially since 9/11, so the issue has become murky at best. For example, several presidential directives since then have established a federal military unit which is to be on call at all times to respond to domestic emergencies. While this would seem to violate the 1878 act (a position taken by the ACLU, for example), the government legal position would presumably lean on the executive authority of the president.

 

In any case, what might appear to be troops on patrol in Penn Station are almost certainly either national guard troops or federal troops conducting exercises, both perfectly legal operations by any standards.

 

Bill

 

PS: Over the past six years (ever since I have been teaching a course which refers to it), I have made changes myself in the Newton's Laws of Motion entry of Wikipedia, to correct a very common misstatement of Newton's First Law. It seemed that each year, when I would check back, someone would have changed the entry to the misstatement again. I just checked it again, and for once Newton's Laws were correctly stated. However, I did notice that the last edit of the entry was 7/14/10 -- i.e., today!

[bellasorella]

I have always felt quite safe in St. Thomas and will continue to, although, liek others, I am now more aware. And yes, this was not tourist directed violence and could happen anywhere. CLick on this editorial and you will understand exactly what happened and why it was actually avoidable.

http://stthomassource.com/content/commentary/open-forum/2010/07/13/poor-police-planning-leaves-community-tragically-vulnerable

 

A gang funeral was going on in the area and the island took no precautions nor did they restrict the area to tourists -- which they should have done.

[Rhitson88]

This Act was passed 132 years ago. I bet its pretty insignificant now haha.

[d34567]

This Act was passed 132 years ago. I bet its pretty insignificant now haha.

 

I'm very happy we aren't on the same cruise, I might be inclined to discuss politics with you. It sounds as if you at one point took an oath to support and defend the Constitution. I suggest you re-read it.

 

In order to remain polite, I will refrain from any additional discussion of the topic.

[jonikal]

Here is an article about reactions in St Thomas:

 

http://travel.usatoday.com/cruises/post/2010/07/report-unusual-calm-settles-over-st-thomas-after-murder-of-cruise-ship-passenger/99828/1

[caribill]

Be careful when you quote Wikipedia it isn't always a reliable source of information. Anyone can post whatever they want at anytime even if it's false. If the statement is true can someone explain what the military men and women are doing in Penn Station and the NYC subway system dressed in full gear and carrying guns if they are not policing the area?

 

OK, here are other sources

 

http://www.rand.org/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1251/MR1251.AppD.pdf

 

http://www.northcom.mil/about/history_education/posse.html

[Iamcruzin]

OK, here are other sources

 

http://www.rand.org/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1251/MR1251.AppD.pdf

 

http://www.northcom.mil/about/history_education/posse.html

 

The military is not allowed to be used as a police force within the USA. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act)

 

I never actually opened the Wikipedia link. I was just going by your statement which did not include exceptions.

 

"The United States Congress has enacted a number of exceptions to the PCA that allow the military, in certain situations, to assist civilian law enforcement agencies in enforcing the laws of the U.S". Quoted from one of the links above

[sempronialou]

I love St. Thomas and it won't change my view still. Crime can happen anywhere in the world. It is sad and tragic what happened, but I will still visit St. Thomas.

[yyzatcqq]

I love St. Thomas and it won't change my view still. Crime can happen anywhere in the world. It is sad and tragic what happened, but I will still visit St. Thomas.

 

And that's the way it should be!

 

I am not going to even touch the silly post about the Titanic.

 

But why not?

 

I'm surprised so many of you still go on cruises using this logic, after all the Titanic did sink and hundreds died.

 

My point exactly! There are loads of people that jump through the same hoop as soon as a plane crashed... OMG we can't fly because people die, or OMG we can't fly THAT airline.....

 

Statistics are what statistics are. The chances of you getting shot and killed are so remote you might as well cash in your RRSP/401K/TFSA/whatever it's called in your country and buy lotto tickets!