New picture of Queen Elizabeth

[PeterSt]

I was merely commenting on what you said.

 

You said "the railway companies will not suddenly bring back the Gresley A4 Pacifics". I was merely pointing out that your statement is factually incorrect.

 

I fully agree with you about these items representing our heritage and are not in day-to-day service. It is just unfortunate that you did not say that in your original post.

[guernseyguy]

You said "the railway companies will not suddenly bring back the Gresley A4 Pacifics". I was merely pointing out that your statement is factually incorrect.

 

But they haven't! No mainline service is currently pulled by an A4 - its all 225s, 125s & Pendelinos - the Tornado is a wonderful achievement - but it is NOT being run by a mainline railway company, or pulling the 07.00 Kings Cross to Newcastle, or the 11.00 return......then the 15.00 to Leeds....then the 18.00 to London....and so on, day after day, week after week, month after month.

 

And as to the original comparison - QE(III) will be MUCH more comfortable for the majority of her passengers than QE(I). Private facilities, stabilisers, air conditioning....as a liner nut I'd love to have sailed on QE(I) - as a Carnival shareholder, I'm glad they built QE (III) - as will the many who sail on her.

 

One evening on QE2 they served a sample (First Class) Dinner menu from QE (I) - I tried it all, eschewing the contemporary offerings - trust me - you'd be happier with current fare....

[PeterSt]

But they haven't! No mainline service is currently pulled by an A4 - its all 225s, 125s & Pendelinos - the Tornado is a wonderful achievement - but it is NOT being run by a mainline railway company, or pulling the 07.00 Kings Cross to Newcastle, or the 11.00 return......then the 15.00 to Leeds....then the 18.00 to London....and so on, day after day, week after week, month after month.

 

I know this is a technicality but actually you are wrong the operator of Tornado is a mainline TOC (Train Operating Company) and has exactly the same licence that Directly Operated Railways (the TOC operating East Coast) have.

 

You will note that I said "I fully agree with you about these items representing our heritage and are not in day-to-day service." So I do not quite understand why you are repeating what I said and at the same time apparently disagreeing with my statement.

[Cruise Liner Fan]

 

If I could take the liberty of paraphrasing a well known old saw - “progress is in the eye of the beholder”.

 

Compared with the English longbow, early firearms were so inefficient, so slow to bring into action, and so woefully inaccurate that it is almost incomprehensible that they were tolerated at all, and yet there is no doubt that they represented progress.

 

I don’t think that there was a single officer or soldier in even one of Britain’s historic mounted cavalry regiments who regarded it as progress when asked to give up their beloved horses in order to drive around in nasty, dirty, oily, claustrophobic tanks reeking of petrol fumes, and yet, those same tanks - under armed, under armoured, mobile death traps that they were - undoubtedly would be considered progress by any military historian worthy of the name.

 

Ask any railway enthusiast if they were happy about the move from steam locomotives to diesel and electric traction, and you will receive a very robust answer indeed – and yet that was progress too, for a very wide variety of reasons, mostly economic.

 

Now harsh economic imperatives drive the design of cruise ships, but the results still represent progress of a sort. Just because one is averse to some particular aspect or characteristic in the evolution of a design, it does not mean that it isn’t progress. And, like time’s arrow, the arrow of progress is irreversible. The world will not give up its jet airliners to return to the “golden age” of piston powered biplanes, the railway companies will not suddenly bring back the Gresley A4 Pacifics or the Union Pacific Challengers, the automobile will not disappear from our highways in favour of horse drawn carriages, and the cruise industry will not revert to using beautiful ocean liners with three funnels and the sleek lines of a thoroughbred transatlantic greyhound. Attractive though some of those propositions may appear, they are simply never going to happen.

 

So I suggest that we all simply get over it and give thanks to whatever higher power we believe in that ocean travel, against all the odds, is still possible. Because, in my humble opinion, ocean travel is what it's really all about.

 

J

But at least they did build the 21st Century Ocean Liner, you might have heard her name she is the Queen Mary 2,my favorite ship :) Regards,Jerry

[Bigmike911]

Ted, I didn't say H.M.S. I said HM as Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth is often referred to in the press. The point I was trying to make was the RMS Queen Mary 2 is the real Queen of the three.

 

I quite understand the difference having sailed on her ten times.

 

Cheers Mike

[stowaway2k]

 

 

Yes, in the eye of this beholder. ;)

 

 

So I suggest that we all simply get over it

 

And I suggest we chill. It was just a photo with a cheeky comment. :) Nothing to get excited about.

[Salacia]

Hope you don't mind if I say that I found the previous comments interesting and thought provoking. Are MS Queen Elizabeth and MS Queen Victoria the correct titles?

 

BTW, I read that in 2014, the Royal Navy plans to introduce a new air carrier named HMS Queen Elizabeth.

 

Cheers,

Ms. Salacia :)

[Cruachan]

But they haven't! No mainline service is currently pulled by an A4 - its all 225s, 125s & Pendelinos - the Tornado is a wonderful achievement - but it is NOT being run by a mainline railway company, or pulling the 07.00 Kings Cross to Newcastle, or the 11.00 return......then the 15.00 to Leeds....then the 18.00 to London....and so on, day after day, week after week, month after month.

 

Thank you Peter - my point exactly. And just for the record the original class of Peppercorn A1 Pacifics consisted of 49 examples built over a one year period of roughly one year between 1948 and 1949. Tornado, the single new example of the class, was 14 years in the building at a cost of something over £3 million. I don't think we are going to see many more examples any time soon.

 

J

[Cruachan]

 

And I suggest we chill. It was just a photo with a cheeky comment. :) Nothing to get excited about.

 

Ummmm... so who's excited? I think what we're having is called a discussion

 

:D:D:D

 

J

[Cruachan]

BTW, I read that in 2014, the Royal Navy plans to introduce a new air carrier named HMS Queen Elizabeth.

 

Cheers,

Ms. Salacia :)

 

That is the intention. However, even at this late stage with the modules of the first hull already being assembled, I fear there is a very distinct possibility that the government will pull the financial rug from under the entire project. So don't hold your breath waiting to see them in service. :(

 

J

[guernseyguy]

I know this is a technicality but actually you are wrong the operator of Tornado is a mainline TOC (Train Operating Company) and has exactly the same licence that Directly Operated Railways (the TOC operating East Coast).

 

But surely the point being made was that these old forms of transport are no longer providing a day to day service. Queen Mary is a wonderful museum but you won't travel far in her!

[dmwnc1959]

*

Progress. *:rolleyes:

 

The original Queen Elizabeth was in service for 29 years and carried roughly the same number of passenger as the new QE. Comparing the two the original Queen Elizabeth:

 

- Had no balconies

 

- Had no outdoor pools (until 25 years into her 29 year career, so the picture you used is in the final death throws of a failing career)

 

- Had no air conditioning (until 12 years after her completion, almost half her career)

 

- Had no stabilizers (until 15 years after completion, half her career)

 

- Didn't have bathrooms in every cabin

 

- Had 35 public rooms divided into three very distinct social-economic categories where you stayed, ate, and lounged and didn't have access to the entire ship

 

- *Was a financial failure the last 6 years of her career where it was even documented that on one transatlantic crossing the ship crew compliments of 1200 outweiged the 200 passengers the ship was carrying.*

 

- Had to have her fuel capacity increased during one refit because he was a fuel hog.*

 

- When transatlantic 'crossing' went the way of the dinosaur that she was becoming, she resorted to 'cruising' in the warm waters of the Caribbean where she failed and was retired in 1969.*

 

So YES, the new Queen Elizabeth is a substantial bit of progress.

 

The original Queen Elizabeth was indeed a magnificent looking liner, but given that I like my 'creature comforts' I would take sailing in the new QE hands down over the old one.

[oldsilverfox]

Agreed to everyone's comments (except the normal recycled comments from Mr Grumpy), particularly about the so-called "golden age" menues.

 

However, another thing that dmwmc 1959 and others have forgotten to mention in their comparisons, the original Queen Elizabeth couldn't even berth or sail without the aid of tugs.

 

As I have commented before, I believe that although those ships looked more glamorous, and the First class passengers truly had a wonderful experience, the golden age of cruising for the Third class / Britannia traveller is sometime around now.

[CruiserTed]

I stand corrected re: the reference to HM Queen Elizabeth. Thank you.

 

I also agree that today is the Golden Age of ocean travel on Cunard. A table mate of ours (a lovely 97 year old lady) recounted her travels on the Berengaria and later liners and was terribly happy with, and impressed by, the improvements we enjoy on QM2. She always traveled First Class, by the way.

[Cruise Liner Fan]

I stand corrected re: the reference to HM Queen Elizabeth. Thank you.

 

I also agree that today is the Golden Age of ocean travel on Cunard. A table mate of ours (a lovely 97 year old lady) recounted her travels on the Berengaria and later liners and was terribly happy with, and impressed by, the improvements we enjoy on QM2. She always traveled First Class, by the way.

Since I am a Liner Loonie myself,this 97 year old lady is a passenger I would like to meet to hear of her stories of her travels aboard the earlier Cunard Liners like the Berengaria and she must have even traveled aboard the original Cunard Queens the Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth. :) Regards,Jerry

[wripro]

Just another example of the new breed of condoship.

[guernseyguy]

Just another example of the new breed of condoship.

 

Damned passengers!

 

If only they'd pay for what was correct for them, rather than what they want!

 

What to do, eh?:rolleyes:

[safarigal]

The original Queen Elizabeth was in service for 29 years and carried roughly the same number of passenger as the new QE. Comparing the two the original Queen Elizabeth:

 

- Had no balconies

 

- Had no outdoor pools (until 25 years into her 29 year career, so the picture you used is in the final death throws of a failing career)

 

- Had no air conditioning (until 12 years after her completion, almost half her career)

 

- Had no stabilizers (until 15 years after completion, half her career)

 

- Didn't have bathrooms in every cabin

 

- Had 35 public rooms divided into three very distinct social-economic categories where you stayed, ate, and lounged and didn't have access to the entire ship

 

- *Was a financial failure the last 6 years of her career where it was even documented that on one transatlantic crossing the ship crew compliments of 1200 outweiged the 200 passengers the ship was carrying.*

 

- Had to have her fuel capacity increased during one refit because he was a fuel hog.*

 

- When transatlantic 'crossing' went the way of the dinosaur that she was becoming, she resorted to 'cruising' in the warm waters of the Caribbean where she failed and was retired in 1969.*

 

So YES, the new Queen Elizabeth is a substantial bit of progress.

 

The original Queen Elizabeth was indeed a magnificent looking liner, but given that I like my 'creature comforts' I would take sailing in the new QE hands down over the old one.

 

My first Transatlantic crossing was on the Queen Elizabeth, and for me that trip was absolute perfection. Then I travelled on QE2, and totally fell in love with the experience on her. She was very different to the Queen Elizabeth, and there was no point comparing the two. I had also found my favourite restaurant at sea - the PG dining room. Next year we will sail on the new QE. I am very excited to see what she will be like. She does not have the elegant lines of the other 2 ships, the Verandah Restaurant will no doubt not be the same as that on the previous Queen Elizabeth, but I am sure that there will be many things about her that I will love. Yes, I would love the new QE to look like a classic liner, but that will not detract from my enthusiasm to give her a try!:)

 

Now if they would just bring back steam train travel....................

[guernseyguy]

She does not have the elegant lines of the other 2 ships, the Verandah Restaurant will no doubt not be the same as that on the previous Queen Elizabeth, but I am sure that there will be many things about her that I will love. Yes, I would love the new QE to look like a classic liner, but that will not detract from my enthusiasm to give her a try!:)

 

Well said! And a refreshing contrast with the armchair critics who get no closer to a Cunarder than their computer screen!

 

Gene Sloan in USA Today is reporting on Queen Elizabeth's shops - great idea to have 'British' flavour, in my view.

[dmwnc1959]

Just another example of the new breed of condoship.

 

Been hearing this tired argument for about a decade. :rolleyes:

 

 

Damned passengers!

 

If only they'd pay for what was correct for them, rather than what they want!

 

What to do, eh?:rolleyes:

 

 

If they would just use common sense and build them ALL to look like the Normandie and Queen Elizabeth we would ALL certainly be so much happier!!! ;)

[dmwnc1959]

Next year we will sail on the new QE. I am very excited to see what she will be like. She does not have the elegant lines of the other 2 ships, the Verandah Restaurant will no doubt not be the same as that on the previous Queen Elizabeth..

 

I am sure this picture doesn't do it justice?

 

[Savoia]

Damned passengers!

 

If only they'd pay for what was correct for them, rather than what they want! What to do, eh?:rolleyes:

 

For some it is an adequate Cunard themed ship, managed and designed by Princess Cruises. Some of us have higher expectations, but we have to keep in mind this is a Carnival Cruise Lines vessel...quality, intgerity and innovation have never been a priority.

[Savoia]

Gene Sloan in USA Today is reporting on Queen Elizabeth's shops - great idea to have 'British' flavour, in my view.

 

What an idea!! Perhaps Princess might actually bring in a British designer to do a room or two next!! So beyond the names on the hull and the CUNARD theme name painted on the side, there are British shops onboard now..3 things British on Cunard ships!!

 

My front hedges are more UK than these Carnival owned ships.

[Savoia]

If they would just use common sense and build them ALL to look like the Normandie and Queen Elizabeth we would ALL certainly be so much happier!!! ;)

 

For me it has never been bringing back the past. Carnival reuses way too often the same everything and expects everyone to fall in line that these are all somehow different when they are clearly not. In Cunard's case it barely exists on its own..the weakest link in Carnival that could easily be shut down, its ships relegated elsewhere (with incredible ease as they are almost all the same) and relegate the Cunard name to the history books. It would be kinder than what Carnival has done to the name, gutting it completely and having it reduced to a theme with no autonomy or creativity. Turn their ships over to Princess..except for the paint job they're all Princess ships anyway.

[dmwnc1959]

Someone commented on another board regarding the new QE: "It would be nice if the “ocean liner” theme carried anything authentic from the UK in its design..."

 

What exactly would that be? This 'UK' authentic design elements? For those who dont think that the inside of the new QE looks anything like 'Cunard', what would Cunard look like in this 21st century? Surely not like the brushed aluminum and plastic of Cunard's QE2 (was that Cunard?), or the 9 ships in the hand-me-down fleet from 1971-2004 (they didnt 'look' like Cunard from the ouside short of a red funnel), or the four Saxonia-class UK-Canada runners and 2 Media-class after the two original Queens? Even the original QE didnt look much like the QM on the inside.

 

Someone please tell me what is Cunard is 'suppose' to 'look' like?