Reimbursement for Frequent Flyer Points

[RJake1]

Has anyone had a claim which involved reimbursement for frequent flyer or hotel program points? My pending claim involved both and I am wondering how the insurance carrier will deal with these issues.

 

IMHO, the value of the points should be determined by the cost to repurchase the points as listed on the airline or hotel website. I'm not sure what other measure of value can be assigned.

 

Thanks for any information on what I can expect.

[sirwired]

Some plans will cover the fees (up to a point) to re-deposit miles/points into your account for a canceled trip. The point/miles themselves are not covered.

 

Check the individual policy details for a more precise answer.

 

SirWired

[cruiseco]

 

IMHO, the value of the points should be determined by the cost to repurchase the points as listed on the airline or hotel website. I'm not sure what other measure of value can be assigned.

 

All that counts is the wording of the policy. No insurer that I can think of will let you assign a dollar figure to any trip arrangements obtained with any kind of awards points or FF miles. They have NO value.

 

As noted, some insurers will help you out by covering the cost of putting those points/miles back into your account (if allowed). Here's from TravelSafe:

 

"Trip Cancellation: Benefits will be paid, up to the Maximum

Benefit Amount shown in the Schedule of Benefits, to cover You for the unused non-refundable prepaid expenses for Travel Arrangements, including up to $150 for the cost of airline imposed fees to rebank frequent flyer miles for air flights to join Your Trip when You are prevented from taking Your Trip due to . . ."

 

And here's from Travelex:

 

"TRIP CANCELLATION

The Company will reimburse You for the following:

Non-refundable cancellation charges imposed by the Travel Suppliers.

 

If the Travel Supplier cancels Your Covered Trip, You are covered up to $200 for the reissue fee charged by the airline for the tickets or up to $200 for the cost charged by the airline to retain Your frequent flyer miles if You had used them to purchase the airline ticket in conjunction with this Covered Trip. You must have covered the entire cost of the Covered Trip including the airfare. "

 

Note the important difference here -- TravelSafe will help you if you have to cancel the trip. Travelex will only help you if your travel supplier cancels the trip. It's unclear if hotel awards points can be covered this way. You'd have to call the insurer. My guess is they would not.

 

All insurers require "proof of payment" for any claims. If you can't show a credit card charge or canceled check for the cost of the ticket you can't insure them. Well, actually you can but it's a waste of money as you can't collect. However, if you had paid some non-refundable booking fee or taxes on them you can insure that amount.

[RJake1]

Those policies specifically refer to points. In my case the policy does not specifically address points. It refers to cost. Any one have any experience with that?

 

Thanks for your replies.

[cruiseco]

Those policies specifically refer to points. In my case the policy does not specifically address points. It refers to cost. Any one have any experience with that?

 

Thanks for your replies.

 

If there is no reference to coverage for arrangements obtained with FF or awards points you're going to be out of luck. Those air tickets cost you nothing (cost provable with credit card receipts or canceled check) so you have not sustained any loss in the eyes of any travel with which I am familiar. No loss, no reimbursement. What insurer/plan do you have?

[klfrodo]

Those policies specifically refer to points. In my case the policy does not specifically address points. It refers to cost. Any one have any experience with that?

 

Thanks for your replies.

 

I hope I'm wrong but I think you're about to learn a lesson the same way I did, the hard way.

 

Frequent Flyer points have 0 (zero) monitary value. They cost you nothing, the flight cost you nothing, when you fly using FF miles you do not earn miles for the miles flown, and since as said before the flight cost nothing, you paid nothing to the insurance company to cover a zero cost flight.

 

Not that I'm agreeing that they cost nothing, but from a legal standpoint, that was what happened to me.

 

After that incident, I NEVER use miles to fly. Only use for upgrades or discounts.

[RJake1]

I'm sure the insurance carrier would argue that points have zero value, but I don't think that has any basis legally. If one can fly on points, or trade them for other goods and services, then they hold some value. Once the fact that they have value is acknowledged then it merely becomes a question of degree....what is the fair value.

 

You said from a legal standpoint thats what happened to you, but I suspect the insurance company told you their decision and you did not appeal it. If that is not correct please let me know what the arbitrator or other appeals panel decided. It could help me with my claim.

 

It should be interesting. I'm an attorney and I am prepared to press this point should it come to that. Maybe I'll set some precedent one way or the other.

[klfrodo]

I'm sure the insurance carrier would argue that points have zero value, but I don't think that has any basis legally. If one can fly on points, or trade them for other goods and services, then they hold some value. Once the fact that they have value is acknowledged then it merely becomes a question of degree....what is the fair value.

 

You said from a legal standpoint thats what happened to you, but I suspect the insurance company told you their decision and you did not appeal it. If that is not correct please let me know what the arbitrator or other appeals panel decided. It could help me with my claim.

 

It should be interesting. I'm an attorney and I am prepared to press this point should it come to that. Maybe I'll set some precedent one way or the other.

 

I'm not about to argue legalities.

I wasn't paying an attorney to fight over $250. (Which would have been the cost of my flight had I purchased the flight with cash rather than redeem FF miles)

If you want to spend thousands in time and effort to prove your point be my guest.

I was just sharing my experience.

[RJake1]

For $250 I would have let it go, too. My situation is different. I'm looking at thousands of dollars for multiple European airfares. I think its worth a little time and sweat equity.

[cruiseco]

I'm sure the insurance carrier would argue that points have zero value,

 

That's not their argument at all. Their argument is they have no COST -- a very different concept. Value is ephemeral and can vary by who is making that judgment. Cost can be documented and established to the penny with credit card receipts and canceled checks. You entered into a contract to be reimbursed for the pre-paid COST of your trip arrangements, not their value.

[6rugrats]

OP - I have had to cancel two trips booked with FF points. Both times I received the $150 pp fee to redeposit the miles back into my account when the tickets were cancelled. This was a Travelguard policy. I don't quite understand what other loss you would have.

 

What exactly is your claim? What was your "loss" and why?

[klfrodo]

 

After that incident, I NEVER use miles to fly. Only use for upgrades or discounts.

 

:o Just wanted to come back and mia culpa.

I lied. Just booked a last minute (medical) trip and chose to use miles only.

 

Good luck with your endeavor

[RJake1]

OP - I have had to cancel two trips booked with FF points. Both times I received the $150 pp fee to redeposit the miles back into my account when the tickets were cancelled. This was a Travelguard policy. I don't quite understand what other loss you would have.

 

What exactly is your claim? What was your "loss" and why?

 

I booked r/t airfare. Flew one way. Got hit with medical emergency. Had to cancel remainder of trip and fly home immediately. Airline was willing to let me adjust return flight with no penalty, which I did, rather than purchase one-way tickets back (which clearly would have been covered).

 

So now I am out the points which cannot be refunded since they were used on return flight. But the insurance carrier shouldn't get a pass on the flights home just because the 'cost' was points rather than currency. I saved the insurance carrier money by using the 2nd leg of my points and arranging for waiver of penalties. The cost of one-way airfare would have been outrageous.

 

Might this be a case of "no good deed goes unpunished?"

 

BTW, I think its very easy to value points. Go on any vendors website that offers points and you will find the cost of the points. You can buy them at the rate set by the vendor. So, for example, if the vendor sells points at .002 per point that establishes the cost.

[cruiseco]

 

BTW, I think its very easy to value points. Go on any vendors website that offers points and you will find the cost of the points. You can buy them at the rate set by the vendor. So, for example, if the vendor sells points at .002 per point that establishes the cost.

 

And if you had done that you would be able to file a claim for the amount you paid for them -- their actual cost to you. You would have a credit card receipt to prove it. But you didn't. Your provable cost is still $0.

 

Anyway, good luck with your claim. Over the years probably thousands have made the same argument and not prevailed. Maybe you'll succeed.

[msmayor]

But again, you're not out anything. You USED the points, you didn't lose them.

 

You still got the flight you required with the points you had. The fact that the flight was taken earlier than you expected isn't a reimbursable reason.

 

If a person who purchased a regular R/T ticket and was in your exact situation and had to change his flight home, he wouldn't get reimbursed for the ticket just because he had to fly home early.

[RJake1]

That really doesn't make any sense. What if I had paid cash for the tickets? Would I be reimbursed under the identical circumstances outlined?

 

If not, then the issue isn't the value of the points, the issue is whether the flight is reimbursable at all.

 

As I read the policy, the cost of airfare is insured because, even though the tickets were used, they would have to be repurchased to take another vacation. So, they weren't used for the intended purpose. Otherwise what is being insured when they refer to airfare?

 

I suppose we could debate this back and forth all day with no resolution. I appreciate all of the input. I'll let you know what happens.

[msmayor]

But bear in mind that you wouldn't get reimbursed for the 'whole' vacation...only the unused portion. Trip insurance won't give you back all of what you paid if you enjoyed SOME of the vacation...only what you didn't get to use.

 

If you were able to use the return flight ticket but had to pay MORE to make changes to the date of the return, then you're entitled to get those change fees back. That's the extra you had to pay.

 

You had to pay to get the flight home anyway. Insurance won't provide a free trip home...just the cost over and above what you originally planned to spend.

 

The only time you'd get the full cost of a plane ticket back is if you didn't/couldn't use it at all and had the proper type of trip insurance to cover it.

[sirwired]

I booked r/t airfare. Flew one way. Got hit with medical emergency. Had to cancel remainder of trip and fly home immediately. Airline was willing to let me adjust return flight with no penalty, which I did, rather than purchase one-way tickets back (which clearly would have been covered).

 

So now I am out the points which cannot be refunded since they were used on return flight. But the insurance carrier shouldn't get a pass on the flights home just because the 'cost' was points rather than currency. I saved the insurance carrier money by using the 2nd leg of my points and arranging for waiver of penalties. The cost of one-way airfare would have been outrageous.

 

Might this be a case of "no good deed goes unpunished?"

 

BTW, I think its very easy to value points. Go on any vendors website that offers points and you will find the cost of the points. You can buy them at the rate set by the vendor. So, for example, if the vendor sells points at .002 per point that establishes the cost.

 

Hmmm... I would think that even if you purchased the tickets with cash, they would not have been covered. You generally only get reimbursed for the unused parts of your vacation. Since you actually went home, you get no refund for the airfare.

 

If you are worried about the value of your miles in the future, then you need to get a plan that will pay the mileage re-deposit fee (mileage redeposit is offered by most airlines.)

 

The other posters are right, insurance is only concerned with cost, not value. If you acquired something free of charge, you do not get reimbursed for what you would have otherwise paid for it. For instance: if your airline working friend gives you a couple free tickets to Aruba, and you have to cancel, those tickets are GONE. You cannot file a claim for what those tickets would have cost you if you had actually paid for them.

 

SirWired

[sirwired]

As I read the policy, the cost of airfare is insured because, even though the tickets were used, they would have to be repurchased to take another vacation. So, they weren't used for the intended purpose. Otherwise what is being insured when they refer to airfare?

 

What does it mean for the tickets to be insured? (The following assumes you bought in cash.)

 

If you cancel entirely: Covered in full and will be reimbursed. The way I understand it, if you re-use the airfare for your new vacation, they'll cover the change fee, but not the fare difference. Alternatively, you can be reimbursed in full if you agree not to use the airfare credit. (Not sure how they check, but I wouldn't want to find out the hard way.)

 

If you have to go home early and merely change your return reservation: The change fee and fare difference are covered, provided they are within policy limits. (TravelGuard Gold allows 150% of your trip cost for your total trip interruption coverage, including the refund for the other non-refundable parts of your trip you missed.)

 

If you have to go home early and must book a reservation on a new airline: The new airfare is covered (within policy limits), you do not get reimbursed for the tix you did not use, and you cannot use the airfare credit if the flights were non-refundable. If the tickets were refundable, they weren't insurable to begin with. (Only non-refundable amounts can be insured.)

 

You do NOT get your return airfare reimbursed once you have arrived at your destination. It doesn't matter if you have to go home the first day or the day before the last day of your vacation. Why? Because you DID use the airfare for its intended purpose, which was getting you to your destination and back. The fact that you didn't get to do what you wanted while you were at your destination is not insurable.

 

SirWired

[6rugrats]

I agree with the other posters. No loss = no claim. You had a roundtrip ticket, and you used it.

[Tikibird]

I'm looking at this issue too as ALL of our flights are FF mile redemptions. I am based in Australia and Amex is offering a "Frequent Traveller" policy which is valid for a year and states the following:

 

c) We will pay you for loss of frequent flyer or similar air travel points you used to purchase an airline ticket following cancellation of that airline ticket, if you cannot recover the lost points from any other source. The cancellation must be due to unforeseen circumstances outside of your control.

We calculate the amount we pay you as follows:

• the cost of an equivalent class airline ticket based on the quoted retail price at the time the ticket was issued, less your financial contribution toward the airline ticket;

multiplied by:

• the total number of points lost divided by the total number of points used to obtain the ticket.

 

https://www.magroup-online.com/AEX/AU/EN/AEX_AU_en_TCs.pdf

 

Using the Carnival Splendor as an example (since no one has confirmed how FF mile tickets are being dealt with), there will be 2 types of claims. On the 7 Nov cruise where the ship broke down, there will be people who used half the award ticket to get to LAX and may or may not be using the return to get home or may have changed the dates to get home. On the 14th Nov, possibly the 21st Nov as well, the cruise has been cancelled due to repairs needed on the Splendor. Then there was a situation where a Celebrity ship left Barcelona, broke down and dumped people in Nice, France and left them to fend for themselves.

 

I'm just confused over what would be reimbursed by the cruise line and what needs to be insured and making sure that my insurance covers what it needs to.

[KCcruisin07]

I'm looking at this issue too as ALL of our flights are FF mile redemptions. I am based in Australia and Amex is offering a "Frequent Traveller" policy which is valid for a year and states the following:

 

 

 

https://www.magroup-online.com/AEX/AU/EN/AEX_AU_en_TCs.pdf

 

Using the Carnival Splendor as an example (since no one has confirmed how FF mile tickets are being dealt with), there will be 2 types of claims. On the 7 Nov cruise where the ship broke down, there will be people who used half the award ticket to get to LAX and may or may not be using the return to get home or may have changed the dates to get home. On the 14th Nov, possibly the 21st Nov as well, the cruise has been cancelled due to repairs needed on the Splendor. Then there was a situation where a Celebrity ship left Barcelona, broke down and dumped people in Nice, France and left them to fend for themselves.

 

I'm just confused over what would be reimbursed by the cruise line and what needs to be insured and making sure that my insurance covers what it needs to.

 

That's really great that you have a Frequent Traveller policy in Australia.

I haven't seen that in the US.

 

Sorry your vacation had to be cut short, but I agree with the others. If you got your return flight, what is your loss?

[bconley351]

We once used airline miles to book airfare for a British Isles cruise we didn't get to take. My husband ended up having back surgery. With a doctor's note (and a small fee), AA was willing to 'take back' the miles and reinstate them to our account. After surgery was all done, and he had rehabbed sufficiently we ended up taking a land vacation in London/Paris instead. It doesn't hurt to ask the airline.

[geepmaley]

We once used airline miles to book airfare for a British Isles cruise we didn't get to take. My husband ended up having back surgery. With a doctor's note (and a small fee), AA was willing to 'take back' the miles and reinstate them to our account. After surgery was all done, and he had rehabbed sufficiently we ended up taking a land vacation in London/Paris instead. It doesn't hurt to ask the airline.

 

This worked because you never use the tickets I assume. AA will gladly take your money to give you back unused (but committed) FF points. Its not cheap, but its better than losing them completely.

[6rugrats]

I have booked travel with FF points for trips that had to be cancelled. My travel insurance paid the reinstatement fee for putting the points back in my account. I don't know of any legacy carrier that won't let you rebank the points; it depends on your status with the airline, whether or not you're charged a fee for this service.