Any truth to the myth that slots allways pay better on the first night

[WonderMan3]

That article does not address changing odds, it only mentions changing the pay tables, graphics, etc. which is a totally different thing. The question in this thread was whether the odds can be changed and your article does nothing to dispel this...

 

This link to literature from IGT, the slot company that is behind the server based gaming at Aria (as mentioned in the previous link I posted), highlights the fact that casino operators could change payouts. Scroll down to page 4 where it mentions "change payouts".

 

http://media.igt.com/marketing/PromotionalLiterature/DynamiX/IGT_DynamiX_WHITEPAPER_Flexibility-.pdf

 

Question dispelled....

[dkjretired]

This link to literature from IGT, the slot company that is behind the server based gaming at Aria (as mentioned in the previous link I posted), highlights the fact that casino operators could change payouts. Scroll down to page 4 where it mentions "change payouts".

 

http://media.igt.com/marketing/PromotionalLiterature/DynamiX/IGT_DynamiX_WHITEPAPER_Flexibility-.pdf

 

Question dispelled....

 

Not really, you are incorrect...

 

Payouts are different than odds, two totally different things, that was not what this thread was about...Changing payouts is simply changing whether you win ie: 10 quarters or 20 quarters for three single bars, does not change the frequency of that combination coming up...That is what was asked...Not saying it won't be coming but it is not operational now since it is illegal...

[WonderMan3]

Not really, you are incorrect...

 

Payouts are different than odds, two totally different things, that was not what this thread was about...Changing payouts is simply changing whether you win ie: 10 quarters or 20 quarters for three single bars, does not change the frequency of that combination coming up...That is what was asked...Not saying it won't be coming but it is not operational now since it is illegal...

 

Sorry, wrong yet again. The standard lingo with slots is "Payout Percentage". That is what determines the odds of the machine hitting. That is why the statement in the link I provided that said "Change payouts" says "Make slots looser on slower nights and tighter on holiday weekends." A "loose slot" is one that has a higher payout percentage than others. What you are referring to is changing a "paytable" which server-based gaming could also do but was not what the statement I pointed out was referring to.

[dkjretired]

Sorry, wrong yet again. The standard lingo with slots is "Payout Percentage". That is what determines the odds of the machine hitting. That is why the statement in the link I provided that said "Change payouts" says "Make slots looser on slower nights and tighter on holiday weekends." A "loose slot" is one that has a higher payout percentage than others. What you are referring to is changing a "paytable" which server-based gaming could also do but was not what the statement I pointed out was referring to.

 

Just because it has the capability does not mean it is in use, it is still illegal..That is a technical statement but not all of it is being used. I stand by my statement for now, they can't change the odds with the current technology on cruise ships, perhaps in the future but not right now...Sorry, still illegal...In the future possible but not now...Bottom line is that right now on cruise ships, the OPs original question is no, it is a myth...Also, they didn't say anything about payout percentage, only payout, two totally different things..

[WonderMan3]

Just because it has the capability does not mean it is in use, it is still illegal..That is a technical statement but not all of it is being used. I stand by my statement for now, they can't change the odds with the current technology on cruise ships, perhaps in the future but not right now...Sorry, still illegal...In the future possible but not now...Bottom line is that right now on cruise ships, the OPs original question is no, it is a myth...Also, they didn't say anything about payout percentage, only payout, two totally different things..

 

Believe what you like but you are wrong. They would not have made the statement "make slots looser" if they were not referring to "payout percentage" not "paytable". And if the technology is available to use in land-based casinos then there is no reason that ship casinos (especially those that are newly built) would not be using them save for the costs incurred for installing them.

 

Also, to further support that I did a little more research and discovered that paytables actually cannot be changed without approval of the Gaming Commission, so we both erred in previous statements we made regarding paytables being changed. Payout percentages on the other hand do not require Gaming Commission approval to change as long as the casino meets the minimum required perecentage determined by the commission. So that IGT marketing info above HAS to be referring to payout percentages not paytables as they could not be marketing something to a casino that they could change based on busy days or holidays that they are not legally allowed to change at will.

[dkjretired]

The tecnology you speak about has been around for a couple of years, it appears that it is slowly being approved and I understand that. Right now the answer to the OPs question still holds since this technology is not on any cruise ships in operation...

 

I would like to point out that I never said changing payouts was legal, only responding to your reference that the new systems have that ability. Also, it might be pointed out that on current technology in 99.99% of the casinos the only way that changing the odds is by changing out the RNG. When a casino does that, it requires Casino control commision and presence when it is done. This is rarely done as it is costly and basically they don't need to unless there is physical malfunction.

 

New systems will change all this and end the myth but right now that is not anywhere near the norm..

[WonderMan3]

The tecnology you speak about has been around for a couple of years, it appears that it is slowly being approved and I understand that. Right now the answer to the OPs question still holds since this technology is not on any cruise ships in operation...

 

I would like to point out that I never said changing payouts was legal, only responding to your reference that the new systems have that ability. Also, it might be pointed out that on current technology in 99.99% of the casinos the only way that changing the odds is by changing out the RNG. When a casino does that, it requires Casino control commision and presence when it is done. This is rarely done as it is costly and basically they don't need to unless there is physical malfunction.

 

New systems will change all this and end the myth but right now that is not anywhere near the norm..

 

I'm almost positive that the NCL Epic has server based gaming as my friend and I were talking with the casino host on the Jade last year (who is now the host on the Epic) and he advised that Epic would be server based. Whether that actually happened I cannot say but I will be finding out when I cruise on the ship in January.

 

And as for the RNG, it is a separate component from the chip that controls that payout percentage. This comes directly from my best friend and gambling partner who owns his own slot machine and has swapped out the payout percentage chip several times. A casino does not have to change the RNG to change a payout percentage on a machine. For traditional slot machines, changing the payout percent chip is still a cumbersome task and is why it is not done that often. The new technology eliminates that issue.

[dkjretired]

I'm almost positive that the NCL Epic has server based gaming as my friend and I were talking with the casino host on the Jade last year (who is now the host on the Epic) and he advised that Epic would be server based. Whether that actually happened I cannot say but I will be finding out when I cruise on the ship in January.

 

And as for the RNG, it is a separate component from the chip that controls that payout percentage. This comes directly from my best friend and gambling partner who owns his own slot machine and has swapped out the payout percentage chip several times. A casino does not have to change the RNG to change a payout percentage on a machine. For traditional slot machines, changing the payout percent chip is still a cumbersome task and is why it is not done that often. The new technology eliminates that issue.

 

Your friend is wrong, the RNG determines the payout percentage and they are ordered by the casino and set at the factory. It must be changed to change the win percentage and requires approval by the regulating authority..I posted this in the 2nd post on this thread and if you will notice several posters agreed with me and gave further information. Look it up on the internet it is available from numerous sources... I think this has just come back around to where we started therefore I won't be posting anymore.

[WonderMan3]

Your friend is wrong, the RNG determines the payout percentage and they are ordered by the casino and set at the factory. It must be changed to change the win percentage and requires approval by the regulating authority..I posted this in the 2nd post on this thread and if you will notice several posters agreed with me and gave further information. Look it up on the internet it is available from numerous sources... I think this has just come back around to where we started therefore I won't be posting anymore.

 

No YOU are wrong. This link provides detailed information about the make-up of slots.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slot_machine

 

The RNG and the payout percentage EPROM chips are separate entities. The EPROM controls the payout percentage, is set at the factory, but can be changed (these are the chips I was referring to that I have seen my friend swap out in his slot). In New Jersey it requires the presence of the Gaming Commission to do it. In Nevada they can be changed without Gaming Commission presence but machines are randomly audited to make sure they meet standards (which would be the minimum required payout percentage).

 

The RNG is an inherent part of the machine when it gets built and does not get changed.

 

So again, they are NOT THE SAME.

[dkjretired]

No YOU are wrong. This link provides detailed information about the make-up of slots.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slot_machine

 

The RNG and the payout percentage EPROM chips are separate entities. The EPROM controls the payout percentage, is set at the factory, but can be changed (these are the chips I was referring to that I have seen my friend swap out in his slot). In New Jersey it requires the presence of the Gaming Commission to do it. In Nevada they can be changed without Gaming Commission presence but machines are randomly audited to make sure they meet standards (which would be the minimum required payout percentage).

 

The RNG is an inherent part of the machine when it gets built and does not get changed.

 

So again, they are NOT THE SAME.

 

As much as I hate to get back into this, I have to correct you. Whether you win or lose is determined by the RNG and that is all I have said from the first post. That requires regulatory approval. AGain, you can throw all this other stuff in but the myth still holds for cruise ships, they cannot change whether you win or lose on any given night because of the RNG which is not changed and determines whether you win or not. You brought up all the other chips and I never discussed them. Question answered and it is the same as in Post #2., nothing you said at this point changes that.

[sailor_jimc]

No.. you are not 100% correct on this either. The RNG does just that. Generates a random number. This in turn is used by software in games computer to determine whether there is a winning outcome or not. The software is set by the EEPROM which controls the personality of the game. You can change the range of RNG outcomes that produce winning payouts or the amounts of those payouts. The payoff amounts are not really changeable without affecting the posted payoffs of the different winning outcomes. So changing the EEPROM can affect the play of the machine. EEPROM means Electrically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory. They are the same thing that computers BIOS chips used to be. (Non reprogrammable in the system board). Most computers have changed to a FLASH based BIOS meaning you can perform a code change on the chip without removing it. I can't say if this is true for slots. (My guess is that the gaming laws require a eeprom change and therefore they still use them.) BUT that doesn't mean that if you removed the rule enforcing agency that a casino could not have a machine designed so the the payoff could be changed via the network they all seemed to be attached to now days. I doubt they bother to have special machines made for them. It is far easier to order machine set to a low payout percentage and not bother to change them. The odds will generate winners even on lower % machines. Yes, those winners will randomly show up on the first night and people will get the impression that the machines tighten up during a cruise. BUT in reality as the cruise goes on most people lose more and more money to the odds so it only looks like the casino tightened things up. So the best advise I have read so far is that if you do hit a jackpot on the first night, stop gambling and take your winnings home with you. Odds are if you continue to play you will give it all back before winning another jackpot.

[waserdog]

Amen!!

[WonderMan3]

As much as I hate to get back into this, I have to correct you. Whether you win or lose is determined by the RNG and that is all I have said from the first post. That requires regulatory approval. AGain, you can throw all this other stuff in but the myth still holds for cruise ships, they cannot change whether you win or lose on any given night because of the RNG which is not changed and determines whether you win or not. You brought up all the other chips and I never discussed them. Question answered and it is the same as in Post #2., nothing you said at this point changes that.

 

I thought you said you wouldn't be posting anymore? Anyway it looks like sailor_jimc has helped to clarify the misinformation you presented here.

[dkjretired]

I thought you said you wouldn't be posting anymore? Anyway it looks like sailor_jimc has helped to clarify the misinformation you presented here.

 

I had not read this thread for about three months however decided to revisit it and saw that you decided to take a cheap shot after I left the thread.

 

I did not give any misinformation.

 

I will try and explain again in simple terms so that even you can understand it.

 

 

1. The OP asked if there was any truth to the rumor that slots hit better on the first night.

 

2. In post # 3 I stated that this is the #1 myth of slot machines under the current technology on the cruise ships.

 

3. Nothing in this thread has disputed this.

 

4. I have said this throughout the thread.

 

For reference, go read back issues of Casino player or Simply Slots magazine, two independent magazines on gaming. Don't worry, they have plenty of pictures...

 

By the way, if you go back and can read my posts sailor and I are on the same page however we are just using different terminology. The RNG determines whether you win, the various chips sailor speaks about determine what you win. It is really that simple. Future tecnology may change that but again that is not what is on the cruise ships now.

[Mutt & Jeff]

I know for a fact that they pay better at night verse day time play. I have experienced this several times aboard ship - same slot machine same jackpot won - much better at night. As a retired computer programmer it is a very simple to manipulate this and it is done everyday. I have noticed from last three cruises - first night is when big payouts happen - I've seen $20,000 pot won on $5 machine first night out and nothing there after. I have seen other odd things too but you will have to find out for yourself - it cost me alot of money to find them.

[clhayes]

This thread was fun to read. Hate to bust you both, but your both half right in your responses.

 

I have very good long term relationships with several casino hosts aka casino managers with a couple major cruise lines. Yes the frequency of payout can and 'is' changed daily by the manager adjusting (level 1 to 4) the online program, which is usually located in casino back office. Today the machines are ‘all’ hooked up to an onboard network. However, changing the frequency of payout doesn’t mean the manager has any control over the timing of a particular machine (or any machine for that matter) from hitting the jackpot or not.

 

The software program governs the slot machines in a group, or the entire house, excluding tables. If I put my player’s card in the machine tracks my play, my name, room number, what specific machine I’m on and location, as well as how much I’ve spent and how long I’ve been on the machine. This is how they provide me with my itemized win/loss tax statement, VIP offers, etc.

 

Hit the jackpot or ‘attendant payout’ (no bells and whistles anymore, the machine just goes quite) and the computer (soft alarm) tells them you hit, how much, and where you are specifically located on the floor.

 

In addition, the gaming commission does not regulate at sea same as the US; i.e. Vegas.

 

Wheels spinning always winning! Happy future cruising!

[WonderMan3]

This thread was fun to read. Hate to bust you both, but your both half right in your responses.

 

I have very good long term relationships with several casino hosts aka casino managers with a couple major cruise lines. Yes the frequency of payout can and 'is' changed daily by the manager adjusting (level 1 to 4) the online program, which is usually located in casino back office. Today the machines are ‘all’ hooked up to an onboard network. However, changing the frequency of payout doesn’t mean the manager has any control over the timing of a particular machine (or any machine for that matter) from hitting the jackpot or not.

 

The software program governs the slot machines in a group, or the entire house, excluding tables. If I put my player’s card in the machine tracks my play, my name, room number, what specific machine I’m on and location, as well as how much I’ve spent and how long I’ve been on the machine. This is how they provide me with my itemized win/loss tax statement, VIP offers, etc.

 

Hit the jackpot or ‘attendant payout’ (no bells and whistles anymore, the machine just goes quite) and the computer (soft alarm) tells them you hit, how much, and where you are specifically located on the floor.

 

In addition, the gaming commission does not regulate at sea same as the US; i.e. Vegas.

 

Wheels spinning always winning! Happy future cruising!

 

No bust seen here as what you stated basically supported everything I was saying. I was talking about server based gaming existing on cruise ships where they could change the payout percentages at will, which is exactly what you just confirmed is happening. Thanks for the info!

[WonderMan3]

I had not read this thread for about three months however decided to revisit it and saw that you decided to take a cheap shot after I left the thread.

 

I did not give any misinformation.

 

I will try and explain again in simple terms so that even you can understand it.

 

 

1. The OP asked if there was any truth to the rumor that slots hit better on the first night.

 

2. In post # 3 I stated that this is the #1 myth of slot machines under the current technology on the cruise ships.

 

3. Nothing in this thread has disputed this.

 

4. I have said this throughout the thread.

 

For reference, go read back issues of Casino player or Simply Slots magazine, two independent magazines on gaming. Don't worry, they have plenty of pictures...

 

By the way, if you go back and can read my posts sailor and I are on the same page however we are just using different terminology. The RNG determines whether you win, the various chips sailor speaks about determine what you win. It is really that simple. Future tecnology may change that but again that is not what is on the cruise ships now.

 

What a bizarre response. How is holding you to a statement you made previously about not posting again a "cheap shot"?

 

Well, after reading through your latest post I see that it was actually a distraction. By calling me out for supposedly making a "cheap shot" it allowed you to make a true one by implying that I would need pictures in a magazine to understand something. That was a rude and immature response.

 

And you know very well that I was not disputing or even debating the issue over slots hitting early on in a cruise. My discussion was regarding server based gaming and your denial that it is happening on cruises now and that it can control payout percentages. Clhayes has just shown that it is happening.

 

Better luck next time though.

[brnsnbrws]

This thread was fun to read. Hate to bust you both, but your both half right in your responses.

 

I have very good long term relationships with several casino hosts aka casino managers with a couple major cruise lines. Yes the frequency of payout can and 'is' changed daily by the manager adjusting (level 1 to 4) the online program, which is usually located in casino back office. Today the machines are ‘all’ hooked up to an onboard network. However, changing the frequency of payout doesn’t mean the manager has any control over the timing of a particular machine (or any machine for that matter) from hitting the jackpot or not.

 

The software program governs the slot machines in a group, or the entire house, excluding tables. If I put my player’s card in the machine tracks my play, my name, room number, what specific machine I’m on and location, as well as how much I’ve spent and how long I’ve been on the machine. This is how they provide me with my itemized win/loss tax statement, VIP offers, etc.

 

Hit the jackpot or ‘attendant payout’ (no bells and whistles anymore, the machine just goes quite) and the computer (soft alarm) tells them you hit, how much, and where you are specifically located on the floor.

 

In addition, the gaming commission does not regulate at sea same as the US; i.e. Vegas.

 

Wheels spinning always winning! Happy future cruising! [/quot

 

I just found a blog by a former crew member for a couple of different lines.

He says that the slot payout is changed all the time and it is true more people win on the 1st and 2nd days on the cruise. These people are great word of mouth advertisement for the ship, the winners telling others how much they won. He did say don't play the slots the last night of the cruise.

[CRUISE4JANE]

:rolleyes: Realize it's probably random luck ... just does seem we normally win on the first night of any cruise ... playing both live/table games and video poker. :confused:

 

I second that as I do good the first day and then go downhill :mad: .

[dolphiness]

I thought you said you wouldn't be posting anymore? Anyway it looks like sailor_jimc has helped to clarify the misinformation you presented here.

Is there maybe a fence somewhere you two can see who can "aim" the farthest and let them get back to the original post? lol

[lokii]

Truth who knows. Can carnival adjust the machines on the fly? Yes. Will I religously play slots on a cruise? Absolutely not! Slots in say Vegas have to have guaranteed payout percentages by law. Guess what happens when the machines in Vegas are not close to meeting the law requirements late in the day? Ding Ding Ding!!!!! As for the machines at sea, those machines face no such legal restrictions and have really bad odds.

[mk695]

I have very good long term relationships with several casino hosts aka casino managers with a couple major cruise lines. Yes the frequency of payout can and 'is' changed daily by the manager adjusting (level 1 to 4) the online program, which is usually located in casino back office.

 

You should think about your relationships. A casino owner (carnival or other vegas casino), would never in a million years allow any staff have any control over making a machine looser or tighter. Think about it, the casino manager would make particular machines looser and then tell their friends to play those machine.

 

Any manipulation of the slots by staff would open up the possibility of fraud. And humans would exploit this.

 

Yes, machines can be programmed to statistically perform a certain way over time -- but it is done by the manufacturer and once it's set then the manufacturer has to change it.

 

This assumes the machine was manufactured by the big 3: williams, igt, bally's, under vegas licensing rules. From what I've seen the slot machines on the ships are the standard ones you'd find in vegas and fall under this type of machine.

 

Now if their comes a time when we start seeing slots manufactured in china and it's a game/concept/method we've never seen before -- then and only then do we need to worry.

[june60bug]

I'm not sure about changing the "guts", changing the software or changing the "jumpers" on a machine from tight to loose but I can tell you this, many years ago while cruising (wish I could remember what cruise line), I along with several other passengers found a row of machines that were paying out like crazy. Naturally the following few days the machines were roped off because of "malfunctioning problems" and when we reached port I watched as they were unbolted from the casino floor and taken off the ship never to be returned!!!

[crazy cajun]

What most are saying about the machines has a ring of truth. Except everyone is forgetting The major factor in CRUISE SHIP CASINOS. They are not regulated by the

same laws as a land based casino. These ships can set the odds / payouts /etc to whatever they want to. There is no casino comission or regulatory agency on the high seas.

the odds of hitting any payout can be changed + /- by opening the machine and resetting it. The randomness of the payout , IE: small pay out or jackpot has to be changed by changing the RNG to one that is programmed diffrently.

If you hit a big jackpot in vegas or reno and the casino says there was a malfunction you can report it to the nevada gambling comission and they will order the machine removed from service untill they can review tapes and internal records of the machine.

If a cruise line in international waters says no you didnt win .YOU LOSE!