Need help w/land part of my France Trip

[delgadofam2002]

We will be sailing on the MSC Fantasia June 2011 stops are:

Marseille, Barcelona, La Goulette, Valletta, Messina, Civitavecchia, Genoa

We fly into Paris so we wil need to get to Marseille & I figure spend a night there.

Once our cruise returns I do not know what to do. Any suggestions as what part of France to see & how to go about it? We would love to go to Cognac to tour Hennessy but it seems ways too far. We will spend at least 2 days doing the Paris must do's. We love history, wine, cheese, art, the country. We are pretty easy. Thank you in advance

[John Bull]

We will be sailing on the MSC Fantasia June 2011 stops are:

Marseille, Barcelona, La Goulette, Valletta, Messina, Civitavecchia, Genoa

We fly into Paris so we wil need to get to Marseille & I figure spend a night there.

Once our cruise returns I do not know what to do. Any suggestions as what part of France to see & how to go about it? We would love to go to Cognac to tour Hennessy but it seems ways too far. We will spend at least 2 days doing the Paris must do's. We love history, wine, cheese, art, the country. We are pretty easy. Thank you in advance

 

You don't mention how much time you have, but guessing you're planning to rent a car.

Cognac would tie in with the prime wine-making areas of Bordeaux - Margaux, Pauillac, Medoc, St Emillion, etc. But as you mention, its a bit of a hike.

 

So consider Normandy for its countryside, cheeses (Camembert, Brie, Pont L'Eveque, etc ad infinitum), Calvados, D-Day beaches, castles.

Or the Loire Valley (Orleans thru Blois, Tours, Saumur, to Angers) for its countryside, sweeping riverside roads, white wines such as muscadets & sauvignon blancs, more chateaux than you can shake a stick at.

Or even combine the two areas into one circular tour (3days)

Something like http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Paris-Charles+de+Gaulle+Airport,+Roissy-en-France,+France&daddr=49.26358,-0.66422+to:49.3377,-0.63142+to:49.37392,-0.90205+to:49.38623,-1.04884+to:49.4151,-1.1769+to:49.40418,-1.31428+to:48.35838,-0.61133+to:47.47006,-0.56224+to:47.41107,-0.33367+to:47.28601,-0.09922+to:47.23289,0.10974+to:47.28114,0.31684+to:47.38883,0.62204+to:47.46566,1.0946+to:47.64631,1.3677+to:47.90543,1.94884+to:48.41543,1.49688+to:48.79044,2.11316+to:Paris,+France&geocode=Ffu96wIdKmEmACkDc2_WhBXmRzGti4XTF_aDNQ%3BFdyz7wIdZN31_ykHDQglc1MKSDHwf8I2SBQMEw%3BFWTV8AIdhF32_ynjcFtsx1UKSDGxvTw5SBQMEw%3BFeBi8QIdXjzy_ynDOjNtPQgLSDFA-vM4SBQMEw%3BFfaS8QId-P7v_ymjX97TzgoLSDHgdgE7SBQMEw%3BFbwD8gIdvAru_ykfkHpD73YLSDGgTvg4SBQMEw%3BFRTZ8QIdGPLr_ylbKJt1JnkLSDFw96k3SBQMEw%3BFezj4QId_qv2_ykHFNy4n6EJSDHhSBtIUjcNEw%3BFexV1AIdwGv3_ymHpMUzxngISDGjv5m5DXHmVA%3BFX5v0wIdmuj6_ylhL-Dk0t8HSDGgM7dKUjcNEw%3BFfqG0QIdbHz-_ymPXl4fn_AHSDFxaAlLUjcNEw%3BFXq30AIdrKwBACk5N1IVllv9RzEBulwy18gNEw%3BFfRz0QIdqNUEACnXYtAz8Ef9RzGxjMYu18gNEw%3BFZ4Y0wId2H0JACmr0VMfNir9RzGR3CQq18gNEw%3BFbxE1AIdyLMQACmJOcQ0lUzjRzGRSAgv18gNEw%3BFWYG1wIdlN4UACkTDPX0BqfkRzHAIGgs18gNEw%3BFZb62gIdqLwdACnpV16yVOPkRzH0yU-imHdygA%3BFcbC4gIdMNcWACklBg-5HQ3kRzExVrDp1sgNEw%3BFah76AIdiD4gACndI8PX2n3mRzGAWAlKw4ILEw%3BFVt-6QIdi98jACkPt-IGH27mRzFglIxow4ILBA&hl=en&mra=dpe&mrcr=0&mrsp=18&sz=7&via=1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18&sll=47.792861,1.246948&sspn=3.03346,5.74585&ie=UTF8&ll=47.791016,1.241455&spn=3.03346,5.74585&z=7

 

Southeast of Paris to the wine villages of Burgundy - Gevry Chambertin, Nuits St Georges, Beaune, etc. But perhaps not a lot else this way.

 

Closer to Paris, the champage region, centred on Reims & Epernay. But the countryside is rather bland, & again there's not a lot else - other than parts of the Western Front of the Great War.

 

Or if you're planning to drive Marseilles-Paris, take in Bordeaux, Cognac & the Loire Valley in a western sweep through France. Something like http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Marseilles&daddr=45.30741,-0.23553+to:45.67933,-0.33357+to:Paris,+France&geocode=FUyrlAIdshtSACkzU9pEQ7_JEjEgApf9pRkIBA%3BFRJWswId9mf8_ymDsgMPTWsASDFsJup3kNoaTw%3BFeICuQId_uj6_ym1RUuwY_MASDEAz3BQktMFEw%3BFVt-6QIdi98jACkPt-IGH27mRzFglIxow4ILBA&hl=en&mra=dvme&mrcr=0&mrsp=1&sz=8&via=1,2&sll=45.506347,-0.362549&sspn=1.582205,2.872925&ie=UTF8&z=8

John Bull

[delgadofam2002]

Thank you John for your reply.

After the cruise we will have 5-6 nights

I am thinking of getting the multiple day train pass

I would like to do the Cognac area since we can take the early fast train.

Not sure what else we can tie in. Paris sightseeing can be our last part since we fly out from there. I figure 2 days is good for that.

Too many choices confusing

[moyaroo]

If doing as John bull suggests, be sure to include the Dordogne valley with it famous lascaux caves. No the originals aren't open, but I have seen the replica and was quite impressed with what they have done.

 

For myself I would suggest Burgundy and Provence. Avignon and Aix en Provence are great stops with lots to do in day trips. Hank likes Remy. I like it too, but don't care much for Arles so getting over that way hasn't been as important to me.

 

The truth is France is a beautiful country. It is a bit of culture shock at times (as is most of Europe which Americans find odd - Europe is so much like the US and so not at the same time)

[moyaroo]

Thank you John for your reply.

After the cruise we will have 5-6 nights

I am thinking of getting the multiple day train pass

I would like to do the Cognac area since we can take the early fast train.

Not sure what else we can tie in. Paris sightseeing can be our last part since we fly out from there. I figure 2 days is good for that.

Too many choices confusing

The Cognac area is perhaps one of the least scenic I can recall in France. If a distillery tour is iportant by all means go, but you will rocket through the Loire on the way and miss some beauty and a fair amount of history.

[John Bull]

Thank you John for your reply.

After the cruise we will have 5-6 nights

I am thinking of getting the multiple day train pass

I would like to do the Cognac area since we can take the early fast train.

Not sure what else we can tie in. Paris sightseeing can be our last part since we fly out from there. I figure 2 days is good for that.

Too many choices confusing

 

Hmmmm. Taking the train cuts the choices dramatically, which I guess at least removes a lot of complicated choices, but it restricts your access to countryside, & limits the number of places you can take in.

It does rather exclude the Loire valley, Provence, Burgundy & the vineyards of Bordeaux, because these really do need a car.

And because of the problems of schlepping luggage, hotel-bookings and train-routings, you are possibly better off taking the train direct to Paris & taking days out from there. But one plus is you can mix your sight-seeing in Paris with your day-trips.

 

Rouen (plus Monets garden at Giverny - alight the Rouen train at Vernon), Reims (and a pre-booked champagne tour), Chartres, Bayeux (& mebbe join a pre-booked D-Day tour by road from there) are all easy by train & relatively easy to explore once you get there. But these are basically towns/cities.

 

If renting a car is an option for you I'd be very inclined to go for it, & meander up thro' France via some of the suggestions on this thread.

Though once in Paris a car is an encumberance, so lose it when you arrive & use metro/HoHo/HoBo etc for your time in the city.

JB

[delgadofam2002]

Thank you everyone great info!!

We can rent the car my hubby doesn't mind driving he's use to it. I have a GPS I just have to get the Europe card. The car is probably less expensive then train pass for a family of 4 anyway.

I wouldn't get the rental until after the cruise so I have to figure how to get to Marseilles from Paris. The after the cruise either do Paris then rent car & go out toward Cognac & as John suggested Bordeaux - Margaux, Pauillac, Medoc, St Emillion, etc do we pass the Lorie on the way? I can do 2 days in France & 3-4 on the road trip per say then drive to airport to fly home.

Do you think this would work?

[moyaroo]

Marseille from Paris TGV. Point to point is probably best, there are hints around as to how to get the offical fare and avoid Rail Europe's high prices.

[John Bull]

Thank you everyone great info!!

We can rent the car my hubby doesn't mind driving he's use to it. I have a GPS I just have to get the Europe card. The car is probably less expensive then train pass for a family of 4 anyway.

I wouldn't get the rental until after the cruise so I have to figure how to get to Marseilles from Paris. The after the cruise either do Paris then rent car & go out toward Cognac & as John suggested Bordeaux - Margaux, Pauillac, Medoc, St Emillion, etc do we pass the Lorie on the way? I can do 2 days in France & 3-4 on the road trip per say then drive to airport to fly home.

Do you think this would work?

 

Going from Marseilles to Paris & then heading for Bordeaux isn't really the best way to go about it. As well as the long haul Marseilles to Paris, Paris to Bordeaux is 5 1/2 hrs each way, so you'd need a day in each direction - though the route includes the Loire Valley and Cognac. You'd then need a couple of overnites in Bordeaux, using the day in between to see the area's vineyards. You could possibly return to Paris via the Dordogne, but that would be a very long day.

 

If you click on the route I suggested in an earlier post, you'll see that Bordeaux, then the Loire Valley, make a good westerly route from Marseilles to Paris.

Re Moyaroo's suggestion, I don't know the Dordogne well, it's hilly & very attractive, though going that way does add to your journey time because the roads are slow. Add it if you feel eager & confident.

You'll need a couple or three nites' stop-over. Simplest to have two in/near Bordeaux - one after your day-long drive from Marseilles, then return there after a day round the city & vineyards.

Then via Cognac to the Loire Valley & on to Paris - or perhaps overniting at Blois before leaving the Loire at Orleans & continuing into Paris, mebbe via Chartres.

 

If that's too much driving, mebbe take the train from Marseilles to Bordeaux, then car to Paris.

 

All three options are viable, lots of permutations, with two or preferably three overnites.

 

If you prefer to head straight for Paris from Marseilles, I'd be inclined to make life simpler & easier by forgetting Bordeaux/Cognac, and concentrating on Normandy & the Loire, the other route I put in an earlier post. Shorter distances, less stressful driving, more of interest.

 

The less driving you do around Paris the better:eek:. Much easier to use a transfer service to the airport.

 

If you split your luggage to turn your carry-on case into an overnite case, the rest of your luggage can stay in the trunk for your tour.

 

If you're not confused enough already :), check these places out on Google & on maps.

 

JB

[delgadofam2002]

Thank you everyone!

John you are amazing!!

I like your suggestion of Marseille to start toward Cognac.

So would I take the train from Marseille to Bordeaux then rent a car there to start my way up to Cognac, Lorie, heading back to Paris?

[moyaroo]

Actually the train from Marseille to Bordeaux goes through Tours in the Loire valley. It then goes south passing east of Cognac. Assuming cogncac is the actual destination of choice you would be better to make a switch in Tours (St Pierre des Corps) for cognac directly. From Cognac then you could go up into Brittany, enjoy some crepes and seafood then on to Paris. (or go back to Tours to see some of the Loire)

[John Bull]

Thank you everyone!

John you are amazing!!

I like your suggestion of Marseille to start toward Cognac.

So would I take the train from Marseille to Bordeaux then rent a car there to start my way up to Cognac, Lorie, heading back to Paris?

 

Yep, it's a good option.

 

The other viable option is to rent the car at Marseilles & do the whole route by car, but it'd be less stressful & less of a challenge if you take train from Marseilles to Bordeaux, & rent a car from there.

 

If you drive Marseilles to Bordeaux that's about 400 miles, somewhere around 5 1/2 hours if you go the boring but easy way via Toulouse.

Or about 530 miles, 8 hours, if you take the pretty way via Avignon & Ste Etienne, over the massif centrale & through the Dordogne.

By train it's about 5 hours, there are direct trains costing from about €18 pp

http://www.bonjourlafrance.com/trains_Marseille_Train_Station_to_Bordeaux_Train_Station_114_49.aspx

Couldn't find the actual train route, might be worth digging into it - mebbe it goes "the pretty way" :)

 

 

Afterwards, you'll be driving Bordeaux to Paris, about 360 miles, 5 1/2 hours. This is a direct route but an attractive one via Cognac, then Tours & Blois & Orleans in the Loire Valley, then slightly off-route if you want to include Chartres and/or Versailles (google these places) as you approach Paris.

 

Bear in mind that these are just driving times, excluding the stops & little diversions that will make it a tour to remember.

 

So whether you choose the train Marseilles to Bordeaux, or rent the car in Marseilles, depends on your attitude to driving long distances and the other pros & cons of train vs car.

I'd be inclined to either take the train to Bordeaux, or go the whole hog & drive the more demanding but worthwhile route via the massif centrale & the Dordogne. The simple road route from Marseilles to Bordeaux via Toulouse is comparatively boring auto-route (tolls in parts), so you'll not see a lot of France.

 

Have fun digging around the net, come back for anything you can't figure.

JB

 

PS this post crossed with Moyaroo's post. Sounds like Moyaroo is your best bet for train info. Hopping off at Tours & renting there for perhaps a bit of the Loire Valley up to Bois & doubling back to Cognac, then heading for Brittany/Normandy would knock Bordeaux out of the picture, but give you a whole new bit of France to explore (Normandy's my favourite) More complications, more choices LoL

[moyaroo]

 

PS this post crossed with Moyaroo's post. Sounds like Moyaroo is your best bet for train info. Hopping off at Tours & renting there for perhaps a bit of the Loire Valley up to Bois & doubling back to Cognac, then heading for Brittany/Normandy would knock Bordeaux out of the picture, but give you a whole new bit of France to explore (Normandy's my favourite) More complications, more choices LoL

 

Actually the best source is http://www.bahn.de the German rail site which is the most comprehensive source for train routing in Europe that I know of. :cool:

 

I agree that Normandy is wonderful, but other than the area around Limoges I like something about everywhere in France.

[catllar]

Moyaroo, have you looked at Seat 61 for train info? How does that compare with the german site?

[John Bull]

www.bahn.de

 

Wow, complicated or what????

Just had a little play with the site, yep lots of info including routes & intermediate stops.

 

But, with German efficiency it gives all options, includes some unlikely routing:

 

The direct route is through Montpelier & Toulouse, similar to the quickest road route, duration 5 1/2 hrs.

 

It also offers a route via Avignon with a change of train at Lyon, and a total journey time of around 9 to 10 hours depending on connection times.

 

As Moyaroo's post, it also offers a route via Tours - but this includes a 2-hour wait at Tours in a total journey time of 9 1/2 hours.:eek:

 

But of that 9 1/2 hours, Marseilles to Tours takes only 5 hours.:)

So Moyaroo's suggestion of taking the train to Tours instead of Bordeaux is certainly worth considering if the OP were to dispense with Bordeaux.

 

More to think about :D

 

JB

[delgadofam2002]

Omgosh too many choices! I wish I could go a whole month.

When I get home tonight I'll play around with all suggestions & see which route works.

I want to spend 2 nights in Paris so I just have to figure if we should do this after the cruise in Marseille or on the way back from the "road trip" my dear hubby & his Hennessy passion is going to kill me! He did the same thing to me on our road trip to Tennessee we had to take the long way cause he wanted to see good old Jack Daniels.

We fly into Paris on June 9th morning the ship does not leave until the 12th from Marseille

Back in Marseille on the 19th we fly home on the 24th morning trying to change to 26. Some where in there I want to see all the must do of Paris, Cognac, & Disneyland. Yes I know why Disney but have to we are Floridian Disney Fans.

Too much sooo little time.

[moyaroo]

Moyaroo, have you looked at Seat 61 for train info? How does that compare with the german site?

 

Seat 61 looks great has a lot of information. bahn.de has the most comprehensive rail schedules for Europe. period. But as John Bull pointed out they will show a lot of choices for routes that might not make sense. Note Seat 61 refers among others to the German site.

 

I went with the Tours routing because I realized that Cognac was really a backtrack from Bordeaux if one took the fast train. the more direct route goes through hilly country and is not real fast track. One always makes compromises in travel.

[John Bull]

He did the same thing to me on our road trip to Tennessee we had to take the long way cause he wanted to see good old Jack Daniels.

 

 

A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.;)

 

And at least with Hennessy's you can buy the stuff on-site.:D

 

JB

[delgadofam2002]

A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.;)

 

And at least with Hennessy's you can buy the stuff on-site.:D

 

JB

 

Lol John your too funny.

I didn't get to research last night. Hopefully tonight. Already stressing

[delgadofam2002]

I finally have been able to look at all suggestions however I am more lost.

If I skip Bordeaux as Morayoo suggested does that mean we take a train from Marseille to Tours then car from Tours heading to Cognac then working way back to Paris? If so I guess we would return car in Paris? If so what sights would we stop at along the way?

Points of interest aside from Hennessy- history, art, winery, & cheese; we love the country & nature

Thanks again!

[Hlitner]

This is a fun topic and has me thinking of all the possibilites. We have been to Cognac (on a month driving trip) and really enjoyed visiting a few of the cognac houses (many are within a short walking distance of each other right in town). Since your priorities are Paris and Cognac we would suggest the following plan. Rent a car in Marseille and drive yourselves to Bordeaux (we really like this city and its region). Using Bordeaux or one of the small delightful villages such as St Emillion as a base you can spend 2 or 3 days exploring Cognac and perhaps a few wineries. Than drop your car at the Bordeaux train station and take the TGV to Paris since there is no reason to have a car in Paris and driving into the city can be nerve wracking for those not familiar with the city. Keep in mind that driving long distances in France can get expensive between the gas prices and the high tolls. As an example, the tolls for the drive between Bordeaux and Paris are more than 50 Euros. Add another 50 Euros for gas plus the extra day of car rental and the train is a good option and about 2 hours faster.

 

Hank

[delgadofam2002]

Hi Hank,

 

So basically from your suggestion we would skip Lorie Valley, Tours area? Everyone suggested skipping Bordeaux for Normandy instead. It would be nice to see winery & some cheeses. We love French cheeses. I am sooo stressed!!! We basically have 3 nights before the cruise when we fly into Paris then we have 5 nights after the cruise but have to fly out of Paris. We need to fit somewhere in there Paris, Disneyland, & of course dear Hennessy UGHHH complicated!!

[Hlitner]

Hi Hank,

 

So basically from your suggestion we would skip Lorie Valley, Tours area? Everyone suggested skipping Bordeaux for Normandy instead. It would be nice to see winery & some cheeses. We love French cheeses. I am sooo stressed!!! We basically have 3 nights before the cruise when we fly into Paris then we have 5 nights after the cruise but have to fly out of Paris. We need to fit somewhere in there Paris, Disneyland, & of course dear Hennessy UGHHH complicated!!

 

ARGH! We would never support a statement saying anyone should skip the Loire Valley....which a terrific area worthy of many days of travel. We ourselves loved traveling in the Loire and spending nights at several of the old chateaus that have been turned into hotels or inns. The problem is that you have a very limited amount of time and must make choices. We have never been big fans of the kind of trip that has us staying in a different place every night (too much time is wasted just checking in and out of hotels).

 

When we read suggestions about skipping Bordeaux in order to go to Normandy we do scratch our head since that is like saying skip New York and go to Atlanta. Bordeaux and Normandy are very far apart (over 600 miles) and our thinking was that you might want to visit places along the Marseille to Paris route. Normandy is a fabulous place, works well with visits to places like Mont St Michael and Giverny....but it does not fit with a short trip that starts in Marseille. When we think of Bordeaux, not only do you have that very nice city but you also have the most famous wine district in France (and some would argue in the world) and some very nice smaller villages such as St Emillion (a UNESCO World Heritage site)..not to mention you are within an hours drive to Cognac. And a visit to a place such as Chateau Lafite Rothchild ain't too shabby. Now that I think of it you might want to even consider spending 1 or 2 nights in a smaller village like St Emillion rather than staying in the larger cities such as Bordeaux.

 

Hank

[delgadofam2002]

Got it! So we would go from Marseille to Bordeaux then St Emillion, Cognac then what?

Will there be any cheese spots in these areas? Should we take the train to Bordeaux then car there & if so until what city to return & take train back to Paris?

[Hlitner]

There are just so many darn options which is what keeps us returning to France. Much of what you do should be based on your personal desires (such as going to Cognac for your DH) and its not wise to get too hung-up on what others (such as moi) think is best since we all have our personal biases. We certainly think the Bordeaux area is worth 2 nights which than lets you take various day trips. The area of western France that you would visit is not known for cheeses since this is not a major dairy region. But, French cheeses are available nationwide. What you need is to find a major outdoor market where there will always be interesting cheese vendors. This takes a little research on the internet (i.e. Google "Bordeaux weekly markets") and you would want to find a town close to where you stay that happens to have their weekly market during your visit (these are outdoors and usually run from about 8am until 1 pm). Since there are markets in just about every village you can usually find something nearby (the same venders travel from place to place).

 

The train vs car decsion is really a toss-up. In many cases you can get better rental rates if you rent for at least 3 days (check sites such as Autoeurope.com and Kemwel.com) and there is generally no one-way drop charge from the major rental companies (as long as you stay within the same country). If you want to have a long driving trip you might want to drive the entire route in which case there are unlimited options. One thought is that you can drive up to Bordeaux, tour some wineries, continue north to Cognac for a few hours, and than continue north up to the Loire region (more wineries and some wonderful chateaus) and finally to Paris. This type of trip would not use a train but would get you to the Bordeaux and Loire wine regions (not to mention Cognac). Regarding Loire, anyone who gets into that part of France should plan on spending at least one night (if not more) at a chateau (you can find them on the internet). Personally, we prefer to spend more nights in fewer places, but with your time constraints you might prefer to do one of those more strenuous driving trips where you simply keep moving north until you have to finally turn towards the west and Paris. You have lots of time to explore your options and hopefully will get some others to offer their suggestions. You should look at some decent maps (we have spent many hours sipping cappucino at Borders and looking at maps and books) and focus on the regions that lies to the south and west of Paris since this fits your particular situation

 

Hank.