Are removal of 24-hr spa access & Posh now $access retroactive contract changes?

[erdoran]

This pertains just to the Epic:

 

Until recently, NCL advertised free (well, included in your fare) 24 hr and "private keycard" access to the "thermal suites" for people in various spa accomodations. Posh Beachclub was also represented as being for suite pax only. There are still web pages up that contain NCL-provided renderings and the original wording advertising both! There is a substantial upcharge for spa accomodations, depending on sailing date--often more than just the cost of the spa pass. The rooms have different decor--but--they are clearly represented as including that 24 hr access, that is only available by booking a spa accomodation and there are probably numerous instances where people chose to book these accomodations specifically because of the 24 hr access.

 

As has been discussed on this board, Posh is now open to the non-suite pax for a fee. Spa accomodation guests now DO NOT GET 24 hr or special keycard access, they get the same access as someone who buys a spa pass.

 

Is it a retroactive contract change not to deliver what the pax contracted and paid for? Is it legal to do this? Seems to me it's no different than paying for a car with a fancy stereo system but receiving one with the base system because the dealership decided they weren't making enough profit if they included the fancy system or, as NCL said about changing the terms of what was sold "it just wasn't working out". What would happen if the situation was reversed, if it "just wasn't working out" for someone to pay the fare they contracted to pay, and paid less--would they still get to cruise? (rhetorical question - OF COURSE NOT!)

[briansnel]

Do not know for sure but think they would have dotted their I's and crossed their T's somewhere making sure they have loopholes to do this.

In the small print somewhere it says they have the right to change itineraries, services etc.

 

Sad but true.

 

For me (based on my needs) it really is not that big a difference. From 10 in the evening to 8 in the morning I wonder how full they really can be, andthen have to maintain the service with staff.

 

I agree they should quit all the marketing that still reflects this but they are also represented by hundreds if not thousands of agents who are not always the sharpest knives in the drawer. (Let alone etihcal!)

 

And if someone booked primarily for this reason then it stands to reason they can cancel on these grounds and find a better deal that suits, and actually materialises.

[sdmike]

I'm not sure how you'd be significantly impacted by the Posh change, so I'll focus on the spa access issue. I think the straight answer to your question of "can they do this" is yes, they can and have. However, if you booked your spa room in part for this amenity, you really have a few options. First, you could live with it if you really were not going to access the spa between 10pm and 8am anyway. Second, you could cancel your spa room and book something a bit cheaper and pay the $199 per couple for the spa pass (I'm assuming downgrading rooms would save you significantly more money than this). A third option is to try to get some kind of financial consideration from NCL by emailing customer service. They might give you $100 off your room, add a shipboard credit, or something.

 

Back to your example of a car. Manufacturers switch out parts all the time. If you ordered a certain stereo that was no longer available you would likely have the option of accepting the lesser one, getting all your money back, or getting some $ off your cost due to the downgrade of equipment. I see this as the same thing. It's not "illegal".

[david_sobe]

I am sure NCL or any cruise line has protections in selling cruise cabins. They can change ports at a moment notice or skip ports altogether. I think the NCL artist renderings of the cabins clearly stated it was an artist rendering.

I am booked in a suite that promised a separate tub and shower and the penthouse on Epic does not have a separate tub and shower. But cruise line web sites and travel agency web sites still say the Epic Penthouse has a separate tub and shower. It is not a deal breaker with me.

Posh is still free for suite guests. Just because they charge other passengers still makes it a suite perk and even more so since it is a charge location.

 

The only part that I will not defend NCL on is the Spa Suite situation. I understand 24 hour access may not work for saftely and cleaning purposes. But they should allow suite guests have access to the facility without having to buy a spa suite.

However, I remember blogging here a year ago how NCL was going to defend giving Spa passes to Spa Suite cabins and not other cabins like the Owners Suite. Think about it. The Spa suite is the most inexpensive suite on the ship. How could NCL allow this suite to have more perks than the Owners Suite or Villa Suites which are much more expensive, etc. So I wonder if they are not giving Spa Suites this Spa perk to even the playing field.

 

In any event, any new building or ship, or house is always different from plans to final product. However, one thing we can all agree on is that NCL sort of "over sold" many features of the Epic without delivering what they promised.

As I stated earlier, none of this is deal breaker for me but I can understand how some can be upset a little. But you cant let it impact your cruise. Anyone can still buy a spa weekly pass.

[pcreek]

I won't respond to the Spa 24hr access - as I've already spoken my thoughts on this (yes, it was our main reason for booking a spa suite). Always a crowd in the spa - every time we visited. Was not a very spa-like atmosphere. Only time it was reasonably quiet was typical dinner time - or on port days. Still the fewest people in spa area was approx 20 whenever we visited there last week. The balcony part was ALWAYS full whenever we were there - okay by us though, we had our own balcony that was private. :-)

 

However, about POSH - was dead the few times I was up there last week. Don't see how charging a fee to enter has changed that at all. Still a very quiet HOT place to relax away from the crowd.

The largest amount of people we ever saw there was 6 - included 2 bar staff.

POSH is a non-issue. they can't get people to invade that space for free, why would anyone want to pay extra for the right? LOL dumb.

[erdoran]

I'm not sure how you'd be significantly impacted by the Posh change, so I'll focus on the spa access issue. I think the straight answer to your question of "can they do this" is yes, they can and have. However, if you booked your spa room in part for this amenity, you really have a few options. First, you could live with it if you really were not going to access the spa between 10pm and 8am anyway. Second, you could cancel your spa room and book something a bit cheaper and pay the $199 per couple for the spa pass (I'm assuming downgrading rooms would save you significantly more money than this). A third option is to try to get some kind of financial consideration from NCL by emailing customer service. They might give you $100 off your room, add a shipboard credit, or something.

 

Back to your example of a car. Manufacturers switch out parts all the time. If you ordered a certain stereo that was no longer available you would likely have the option of accepting the lesser one, getting all your money back, or getting some $ off your cost due to the downgrade of equipment. I see this as the same thing. It's not "illegal".

 

There are no options to switch/downgrade rooms without paying much more than I would have at the time I booked my spa suite, and for a much worse location than I would have had at the time of booking. If I cancel, even if NCL gives 100% back I have non-refundable $$ for travel insurance, airfare, and the TA has a steep penalty...so to make any change based on NCL's removal of services I bought will cost me $$$$$$. I have written to NCL customer service and asked for some sort of adjustment based on the above, and I'll be satisfied if I do get something from them....but what they "should" have done is to proactively contact pax who are affected by these changes and offer to do something for them, not wait for complaints. It just seems so dead wrong to me to sell you one thing and deliver less and assume people will just let it go.

 

And yes, we had absolutely planned on accessing the spa between 10 pm and 8 am, that was one of the things we were most looking forward to--spa time when it was relatively quiet and private, perhaps after a great evening at one of the shows, as a before-bedtime relaxation. That was one of the biggest reasons we did spa accomodations. Posh appealed to me because of the description and the only way to be able to use it was by being in a suite. Neither description or rendering comes anywhere close to the reality, in addition to the other issues I've mentioned.

 

Your point about the car is right, of course, but I don't see NCL offering any option other than to take the lower-end equipment at the price you paid for the higher-end one. For many it isn't practical to cancel and get a refund, and no offers have (at least as of yet) been made to reduce the price to compensate for delivering less than was paid for. Perhaps if NCL reads this topic they will consider doing the right thing.

[HazyDavy]

However, about POSH - was dead the few times I was up there last week. Don't see how charging a fee to enter has changed that at all. Still a very quiet HOT place to relax away from the crowd.

The largest amount of people we ever saw there was 6 - included 2 bar staff.

POSH is a non-issue. they can't get people to invade that space for free, why would anyone want to pay extra for the right? LOL dumb.

 

If Posh is as empty as is being reported, its a non-issue. However, should it become overrun with non-suite guests, it is an issue. At least for those who booked suites before the change in policy was announced. Time will tell.

[erdoran]

I am sure NCL or any cruise line has protections in selling cruise cabins. They can change ports at a moment notice or skip ports altogether. I think the NCL artist renderings of the cabins clearly stated it was an artist rendering.

I am booked in a suite that promised a separate tub and shower and the penthouse on Epic does not have a separate tub and shower. But cruise line web sites and travel agency web sites still say the Epic Penthouse has a separate tub and shower. It is not a deal breaker with me.

Posh is still free for suite guests. Just because they charge other passengers still makes it a suite perk and even more so since it is a charge location.

 

The only part that I will not defend NCL on is the Spa Suite situation. I understand 24 hour access may not work for saftely and cleaning purposes. But they should allow suite guests have access to the facility without having to buy a spa suite.

However, I remember blogging here a year ago how NCL was going to defend giving Spa passes to Spa Suite cabins and not other cabins like the Owners Suite. Think about it. The Spa suite is the most inexpensive suite on the ship. How could NCL allow this suite to have more perks than the Owners Suite or Villa Suites which are much more expensive, etc. So I wonder if they are not giving Spa Suites this Spa perk to even the playing field.

 

In any event, any new building or ship, or house is always different from plans to final product. However, one thing we can all agree on is that NCL sort of "over sold" many features of the Epic without delivering what they promised.

As I stated earlier, none of this is deal breaker for me but I can understand how some can be upset a little. But you cant let it impact your cruise. Anyone can still buy a spa weekly pass.

 

Spa accomodation guests still get a "free" spa pass (it's included in what you paid for the cabin. My issue is that we only get the same access as anyone who buys any cabin and pays for a spa pass separately. As far as the issue of this suite being "the least expensive" (it isn't, the non-CY penthouse was less expensive when I booked, but certainly those two were half the price of the other suites) but having more perks, that's one of the reasons I booked it, because it did seem like a bargain. If NCL shouldn't have done that or should have included a spa pass in the more expensive suites, that doesn't have any relationship to the fact that they clearly advertised and sold one thing but then aren't delivering what was advertised.

[pcreek]

Spa accomodation guests still get a "free" spa pass (it's included in what you paid for the cabin. My issue is that we only get the same access as anyone who buys any cabin and pays for a spa pass separately. As far as the issue of this suite being "the least expensive" (it isn't, the non-CY penthouse was less expensive when I booked, but certainly those two were half the price of the other suites) but having more perks, that's one of the reasons I booked it, because it did seem like a bargain. If NCL shouldn't have done that or should have included a spa pass in the more expensive suites, that doesn't have any relationship to the fact that they clearly advertised and sold one thing but then aren't delivering what was advertised.

 

 

You will still LOVE the spa suite! We did.. the in-room jacuzzi is great! We were in 14149 and had a bit larger balcony - 2 chairs, table & lounger. Was really awesome! The shower is huge, with a hand-held sprayer and a large 'rain-like' disk in the center of shower. I'll be posting full review & photos later in the week.

[erdoran]

You will still LOVE the spa suite! We did.. the in-room jacuzzi is great! We were in 14149 and had a bit larger balcony - 2 chairs, table & lounger. Was really awesome! The shower is huge, with a hand-held sprayer and a large 'rain-like' disk in the center of shower. I'll be posting full review & photos later in the week.

 

Can't wait to see what you have to say! How is the jacuzzi for two people? I'm thinking it will be too cramped.

[pcreek]

Can't wait to see what you have to say! How is the jacuzzi for two people? I'm thinking it will be too cramped.

 

LOL well, I can't answer that from our experience! We are Xtra Large people. No way could both of us get in there! :o

But, it was plenty big enough for one of us.

I will have photos later in the week. :)

[time2cruise1]

24 hour access might be a change from the original marketing but I don't think you will find spa access or posh in any contract for an Epic cruise. :rolleyes:

[david_sobe]

Spa accomodation guests still get a "free" spa pass (it's included in what you paid for the cabin. My issue is that we only get the same access as anyone who buys any cabin and pays for a spa pass separately. As far as the issue of this suite being "the least expensive" (it isn't, the non-CY penthouse was less expensive when I booked, but certainly those two were half the price of the other suites) but having more perks, that's one of the reasons I booked it, because it did seem like a bargain. If NCL shouldn't have done that or should have included a spa pass in the more expensive suites, that doesn't have any relationship to the fact that they clearly advertised and sold one thing but then aren't delivering what was advertised.

Ernie

Thanks for correcting me. I forgot the Spa Suites still get access but just not 24 hour access. That is still a sweet suite deal. Think of it this way. An owners suite or Villa suite is 3 to 4 times more expensive and those suites must pay for their spa passes just like anyone else. So I cant see anyone complaining in a Spa Suite because they have an automatic $200 upcharge that other suites dont have (even though they are much more expensive)

So, it is still quite a perk and saves you $200 and the spa suite is still the most inexpensive suite on the ship. Quite amazing if you think an Owners suite must pay for the access the Spa Suite guests get for "free" :)

 

Interesting that you think a service that costs $200 that everyone else on the ship must pay for what you get as "included" is not a perk or unfair. In addition Posh is included too and others must pay.

I see you are on the Dec 25 cruise. I will be getting off Epic while you are getting on. Maybe you can read my reivew while you are at sea :) Otherwise, I would discuss this further with you over several drinks ;)

[erdoran]

Ernie

Thanks for correcting me. I forgot the Spa Suites still get access but just not 24 hour access. That is still a sweet suite deal. Think of it this way. An owners suite or Villa suite is 3 to 4 times more expensive and those suites must pay for their spa passes just like anyone else. So I cant see anyone complaining in a Spa Suite because they have an automatic $200 upcharge that other suites dont have (even though they are much more expensive)

 

It was a bit less than double when I booked, and the non-courtyard penthouse was less. In a random upcoming sailing the PH is about $500/pp less than the SA and yes, the PH gets full suite privileges.

 

So, it is still quite a perk and saves you $200 and the spa suite is still the most inexpensive suite on the ship. Quite amazing if you think an Owners suite must pay for the access the Spa Suite guests get for "free" :)

 

Interesting that you think a service that costs $200 that everyone else on the ship must pay for what you get as "included" is not a perk or unfair.

 

It is what I was sold. I could have gotten the identical suite in a different location, minus the hot tub & spa access, for less $, or I could have paid more for the CV or other suites. The fairness of the product offering is not relevant to the fact that this is clearly, without a doubt, what I was sold, and the reason I bought it at the price I did (and that it was even available) is I booked this January, 2010. Within days after my booking the spa suites were all gone!

 

In addition Posh is included too and others must pay.

I see you are on the Dec 25 cruise. I will be getting off Epic while you are getting on. Maybe you can read my reivew while you are at sea :) Otherwise, I would discuss this further with you over several drinks ;)

 

I would love to discuss over several drinks and I think we'd both need them :> Hey, my flight arrives at 8:45 and we'll probably be at the port by 10 or a bit later so our paths would almost cross with you leaving and us arriving.

 

Whether or not it's fair that this suite includes spa access is unrelated to my complaint--that NCL decided to bundle 24 hour spa access with my suite, and then took it away with (so far) zero price adjustment. And remember that other cabins also are considered "spa accomodations" and were sold with the same privileges - 24 hr spa access included. They were even less than my suite and have this same spa access privileges that the other suites don't.

I have no issue with the fact that NOW NCL is selling spa suites without 24 hr access or that they are no longer advertising Posh as private. People can decide what they want to book based on accurate information, which is absolutely fine. My problem is, as I have repeatedly said, I was sold one thing and am receiving less than I was sold with no price adjustment for the "missing" items, and that just doesn't seem right or even like good customer relations. Having said that, let's see what (if anything) NCL customer relations does about it.

[RNPJN]

I would love to discuss over several drinks and I think we'd both need them :> Hey, my flight arrives at 8:45 and we'll probably be at the port by 10 or a bit later so our paths would almost cross with you leaving and us arriving.

 

Whether or not it's fair that this suite includes spa access is unrelated to my complaint--that NCL decided to bundle 24 hour spa access with my suite, and then took it away with (so far) zero price adjustment. And remember that other cabins also are considered "spa accomodations" and were sold with the same privileges - 24 hr spa access included. They were even less than my suite and have this same spa access privileges that the other suites don't.

 

I have no issue with the fact that NOW NCL is selling spa suites without 24 hr access or that they are no longer advertising Posh as private. People can decide what they want to book based on accurate information, which is absolutely fine. My problem is, as I have repeatedly said, I was sold one thing and am receiving less than I was sold with no price adjustment for the "missing" items, and that just doesn't seem right or even like good customer relations. Having said that, let's see what (if anything) NCL customer relations does about it.

We agree . They should at least have extended hours for those in spa staterooms also Klaus told me that they can program your room key for entrance to the spa .

[sjbdtz]

We agree . They should at least have extended hours for those in spa staterooms also Klaus told me that they can program your room key for entrance to the spa .

 

 

This is what they did on the TA, about 1/2-way through. They said it was open until 2 a.m.... and I was able to go in on the last couple of days at 5a.m....but the thallasotherapy pool was closed, and the whole place was unattended... which given motion & wet...is a slip & fall waiting to happen.

 

I don't see why it would be so hard to assign 1 crewmember to be in the communal wet area, to mop-up / keep the area tidy overnight....

[chris209]

I am in an owners suite and one of the reasons I booked it was to have use of lounge areas without fighting for a chair (ie courtyard and Posh). In a recent review someone mentioned that there did not seem to be enough lounge chairs for everyone with access to the courtyard on a full sailing. Knowing that Posh was also available and exclusive to CY guestsmeant more chairs available even if the courtyard is busy. If Posh catches on with people buying passes and gets busy a lot of suite passenfers will not be happy- how will NCL handle this- if they sell passes but those in suites who were sold on the availability of Posh will not be happy if they can't use it! (also I am below Posh so will not be happy for other reasons!) Have til December to monitor this and see whether Posh gets busy before making final payment

[stanmoto98]

Ladies and gentlemen,

 

I am a part time independent cruise agent and as of only about a minute ago the following category description is what is shown on Epic cruises with Spa Suites being available on the Travel Agent Partner booking pages.

 

The Spa Suites, built for two, are a great way to experience a total spa vacation. These suites feature a queen-size circular bed, spa décor, entry to the Mandara Spa experience and fitness center, as well as complimentary 24-hour access to the Thermal Spa Suites. In addition to the private balcony with incredible views and luxury bathroom featuring a hot tub, you'll also have exclusive access to the Courtyard area, Concierge Lounge and private restaurant and bar. Includes butler and concierge service

 

This description obviously has no bearing on what is actually the policy on board the ship. I am drafting a letter to NCL Customer Service on behalf of myself and other clients who have booked Spa Suites, due largely on the premise of the 24-hour access.

[erdoran]

Ladies and gentlemen,

 

I am a part time independent cruise agent and as of only about a minute ago the following category description is what is shown on Epic cruises with Spa Suites being available on the Travel Agent Partner booking pages.

 

 

 

This description obviously has no bearing on what is actually the policy on board the ship. I am drafting a letter to NCL Customer Service on behalf of myself and other clients who have booked Spa Suites, due largely on the premise of the 24-hour access.

 

Stanmoto, is that a portion of the NCL website?? Check the address bar and see if it has ncl.com in the URL.

[david_sobe]

That is not the only correction that would have to happen. There are lots of little things that are different than the original design. The Penthouse does not have a separate tub and shower but cruise line web sites keep mentioning this. In fact, the Epic Penthouse is probably one of the only suites at sea without a separate tub and shower. It is the only suite on Epic without a separate tub and shower. The penthouse on NCL's oldest ship (Sky) is twice the size and has a separte tub and shower.

[stanmoto98]

Stanmoto, is that a portion of the NCL website?? Check the address bar and see if it has ncl.com in the URL.

Yes, it is part of the NCL website and has a http://www.ncl.com URL. It is NCL's Agent online booking site. It is only accessible with an agent partner ID and password.

[stanmoto98]

That is not the only correction that would have to happen. There are lots of little things that are different than the original design. The Penthouse does not have a separate tub and shower but cruise line web sites keep mentioning this. In fact, the Epic Penthouse is probably one of the only suites at sea without a separate tub and shower. It is the only suite on Epic without a separate tub and shower. The penthouse on NCL's oldest ship (Sky) is twice the size and has a separte tub and shower.

David,

 

Here is the category description from NCL's agent booking pages for the S6 Penthouses on the Epic.

 

These Penthouses with a Balcony have so much to offer. With room for up to two, you'll have a separate bedroom with queen-size circular bed and a living area, plus these Aft-Facing Penthouses offer an unforgettable view from the private balcony and include exclusive access to the Courtyard area, Concierge Lounge and private restaurant and bar. Includes butler and concierge service.

[erdoran]

David,

 

Here is the category description from NCL's agent booking pages for the S6 Penthouses on the Epic.

 

Yes, and when we were booking I was looking at pictures of the penthouses showing a living room and separate bedroom. As I recall, the actual Epic penthouses are a single room, really very similar to the spa suite minus the tub, with an area behind the bed for the bathroom. Not even a couch!

[pcreek]

testing. I'm trying to upload a little video of our spa suite.

sorry if it doesn't work!

 

okay...here is a share site...I've uploaded some photos and little video.

 

http://spasuite14149.shutterfly.com/pictures?role=-1#

[erdoran]

Some questions:

1. Did you have to wait in line for the shows or did you get special access/seating?

2. Did they provide hair conditioner after all? Anything else you brought that you didn't need to bring because it was provided?

3. Did they provide a ship-use phone?

 

How was it??