Does Everybody Tip for Room Service?

[klfrodo]

"I'm superior to you look how much I can afford to give you over and above what you are expecting" tips. I guess it probably makes you feel better about yourself ?

 

I don't think I have ever heard or felt that anyone was saying such a thing.

I could understand that if someone had an inferiority complex or some other such issue with self confidence or self worth,,, that they may perceive something like that,,,, then again,,I could be mistaken.

 

Could very well mean,,, that "Looking back on the whole scheme in life, I realize how blessed and fortunate I am. $20 - $50 may do more for you than it ever could for me. Thank You Thank You for going out of your way and working very hard to care for myself and my family. Here's a small token of my appreciation".

[mbisson]

Perfectly said klfrodo. I'd be honored to meet you should we ever sail together.

 

I don't think I have ever heard or felt that anyone was saying such a thing.

I could understand that if someone had an inferiority complex or some other such issue with self confidence or self worth,,, that they may perceive something like that,,,, then again,,I could be mistaken.

 

Could very well mean,,, that "Looking back on the whole scheme in life, I realize how blessed and fortunate I am. $20 - $50 may do more for you than it ever could for me. Thank You Thank You for going out of your way and working very hard to care for myself and my family. Here's a small token of my appreciation".

[uppitycats]

I don't think I have ever heard or felt that anyone was saying such a thing.

I could understand that if someone had an inferiority complex or some other such issue with self confidence or self worth,,, that they may perceive something like that,,,, then again,,I could be mistaken.

 

Could very well mean,,, that "Looking back on the whole scheme in life, I realize how blessed and fortunate I am. $20 - $50 may do more for you than it ever could for me. Thank You Thank You for going out of your way and working very hard to care for myself and my family. Here's a small token of my appreciation".

 

Unfortunately, I have seen the type that makes a big public show of tipping folks, makes sure everyone knows just how "generous" he is (or was, when re-telling the story), talks about those "third world people" (and sometimes with even less flattering descriptions), and so indeed would fit that view.

 

But yes, the second view -- "...I realize how blessed and fortunate I am..." is more the style that we wish everyone would adopt. After all, if we can afford to cruise, we should be able to afford an extra bit of cash at the end of it, for those who made our cruise memorable.

[boozencruisen]

I can assure you that "they will take care of you" even if you don't give a superfluous tip, it's their job to do so. I don't feel that I have been treated any differently to any other passenger on a cruiseship without leaving these "I'm superior to you look how much I can afford to give you over and above what you are expecting" tips. I guess it probably makes you feel better about yourself ?

 

Out of curiosity how much do servers make in the UK... like say compared to fast food cooks? In the US servers only make $3.63 an hour, or about half of minimum wage, they rely on tips for their income.

[staygulf]

Unfortunately, I have seen the type that makes a big public show of tipping folks, makes sure everyone knows just how "generous" he is (or was, when re-telling the story), talks about those "third world people" (and sometimes with even less flattering descriptions), and so indeed would fit that view.

 

But yes, the second view -- "...I realize how blessed and fortunate I am..." is more the style that we wish everyone would adopt. After all, if we can afford to cruise, we should be able to afford an extra bit of cash at the end of it, for those who made our cruise memorable.

 

But that is what the auto tipping system is supposed to be for, isn't it ? If you have already shown your gratitude for the servitude, why throw down that extra bit of cash if it is not to boost some over inflated ego ?

[staygulf]

I don't think I have ever heard or felt that anyone was saying such a thing.

I could understand that if someone had an inferiority complex or some other such issue with self confidence or self worth,,, that they may perceive something like that,,,, then again,,I could be mistaken.

 

Could very well mean,,, that "Looking back on the whole scheme in life, I realize how blessed and fortunate I am. $20 - $50 may do more for you than it ever could for me. Thank You Thank You for going out of your way and working very hard to care for myself and my family. Here's a small token of my appreciation".

 

Firstly, you are right, you are mistaken.

Secondly, IMO you are wrong in thinking that anyone on a cruise ship goes out of their way, they are simply doing their job.

Thirdly, IMO you are wrong in thinking that anyone on a cruise ship actually cares for you and your family. Again, they are simply doing their job. Yes that job entails them working in a serviant capacity to ensure your pleasure, but as soon as you,ve left the ship there's another master to take your place. And that attitude is exactly the sanctimonious attitude to which I was referring. "I am blessed" "here you poor little man have $20 I don't need it".

[staygulf]

Out of curiosity how much do servers make in the UK... like say compared to fast food cooks? In the US servers only make $3.63 an hour, or about half of minimum wage, they rely on tips for their income.

 

To answer your question, the minimum wage in te UK for over 21's is £5.93 per hour which is about $8.90. It is illegal for employers to pay less than this. If you also have minimum wage laws in the US, why are servers treated differently ?

[ggrouter]

To answer your question, the minimum wage in te UK for over 21's is £5.93 per hour which is about $8.90. It is illegal for employers to pay less than this. If you also have minimum wage laws in the US, why are servers treated differently ?

 

 

Because it's implied that tips make up the difference

[klfrodo]

If you also have minimum wage laws in the US, why are servers treated differently ?

 

Because it's the law. As stated earlier, there are jobs in the US where it is legal to pay less than minimum wage because it is assumed that the difference will be made up in tips. Doesn't make it right, doesn't make it wrong. It is what it is.

[klfrodo]

. And that attitude is exactly the sanctimonious attitude to which I was referring. "I am blessed" "here you poor little man have $20 I don't need it".

 

self editing.......

 

Level of contempt not worthy of a response.

I can only hope this individual is not representitive of all people from the UK. Not knowing many people from the UK, I always held them in high regard.

[boozencruisen]

self editing.......

 

Level of contempt not worthy of a response.

I can only hope this individual is not representitive of all people from the UK. Not knowing many people from the UK, I always held them in high regard.

 

That why I asked the question about what severs make in UK. I have seen plenty of people from their with the same ideals. Which is fine different cultures have different customs. We argue with the British because we are on the same board and speak the same language, if some Oriental posters were to come on here I'm sure they would be even more offended by the idea of tipping than staygulf is. After his answer it kind of make sense, the employers cover more money for service jobs instead of relying on them making fat tips. Which means when someone gives out a big tip it's more like giving money to the homeless because they are worse off than you...

 

To answer your question, the minimum wage in te UK for over 21's is £5.93 per hour which is about $8.90. It is illegal for employers to pay less than this. If you also have minimum wage laws in the US, why are servers treated differently ?

 

Servers are expected to make tips that will at least add up to minimum wage. For taxes they have (are supposed) to claim all cash tips, and if they didn't make enough to equal minimum wage the employer must pay the difference.

[staygulf]

self editing.......

 

Level of contempt not worthy of a response.

I can only hope this individual is not representitive of all people from the UK. Not knowing many people from the UK, I always held them in high regard.

 

You are obviously missing the point completely.

[staygulf]

Because it's the law. As stated earlier, there are jobs in the US where it is legal to pay less than minimum wage because it is assumed that the difference will be made up in tips. Doesn't make it right, doesn't make it wrong. It is what it is.

 

Employers have to make up any difference in any case !

[staygulf]

That why I asked the question about what severs make in UK. I have seen plenty of people from their with the same ideals. Which is fine different cultures have different customs. We argue with the British because we are on the same board and speak the same language, if some Oriental posters were to come on here I'm sure they would be even more offended by the idea of tipping than staygulf is. After his answer it kind of make sense, the employers cover more money for service jobs instead of relying on them making fat tips. Which means when someone gives out a big tip it's more like giving money to the homeless because they are worse off than you...

 

 

 

Servers are expected to make tips that will at least add up to minimum wage. For taxes they have (are supposed) to claim all cash tips, and if they didn't make enough to equal minimum wage the employer must pay the difference.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not against tipping per se. We usually pay 10 to 15 % as a service charge in restaurants, biut this purely discretionary. If you don't like the service you can adjust it. My point is directed at those who, having paid the auto-tip, feel it is necessary to give even more. You recognise what I am saying in your statement. Our systems are different. Employers cannot pay less than the minimum wage, but under your system they can but must make up any difference if the employee doesn't make the minimum wage including tips. Essentially they reach the same result.

[Spectax]

Fascinating conversation. Interesting what different perspectives people hold on this issue. I'm over 60 and have spent most of my life in the accounting field, but when I was in my 20's I worked at several jobs which relied on tips. Part of this was just picking up extra beer money when I was in the military, but later it was the more serious matter of working my way through college. Looking back, I recall meeting boorish, stingy, and inconsiderate people who tipped little or nothing because they didn't care or were ignorant of how things worked, but on the other end of the spectrum there were people who seemed to think they owned you because they placed a few coins or bills in your palm. So I understand the point staygulf is trying to make, although I think the logic is being tortured in a very cynical manner. And I'm not persuaded by the concept that insuring a person earns minimum wage is particularly germane. That really wasn't the intent of the original post, was it?

 

The great majority of customers I encountered were kind, decent people who recognized I was a young person doing my best at trying to get ahead, and wanted to be sure I was treated fairly when they tipped. I learned a valuable lesson about human nature that has served me well over the years. To this day, I believe one can make reliable character judgements about a person based on the way he treats people who are in a perceived socially or economically inferior position to him/her.

 

Being thankful for the courteous & noble way most people treated me when I was young, I try to emulate them. To me, that means tipping on the generous side. I agree with klfrodo completely, because I believe if I can't afford to tip generosuly then I can't afford the service. And yes, on our cruise last week I did tip room service each time when they brought us two caraffes of coffee every morning. I don't know how they felt about it or whether it made any significant difference in their compensation, but I do know I honored the memory of each and every person who did the same for me over 40 years ago. I can live with that and will continue to do so.

[smeyer418]

some really ridiculous posts IMO..

US Federal wage and hour law allows tipped employees to be paid a different minimum wage. It takes into consideration that tips are paid. Its true that if with tips the regular minimum is not made the Employer has to make it up. Most tipped employees make much more than the minimum wage(but this assumes that the employee was paid 15% of the bill whether they actually get it or not or they would just pocket it and say that they were stiffed). In fact at some of the upscale restaurants its not unusual to make $50,000 per year or more(sometimes more then the chef).

So if your server is making more than the minimum wage does this mean you shouldn't have to tip at all? What is your point? You aren't in merry old England. here at least the employee who works hard and give generally good service is rewarded(except by the cheap so and so who count their money).

What happens when the employer has to make it up because the employee doesn't make the minimum including tips? the employee gets fired.

The same on ships. if they get stiffed enough rightfully or wrongfully they are booted because obviously something is wrong.....

somewhere.

 

I would prefer mandatory service charges or it included in the fare. Until they do that however, shouldn't you just go along and not punish the employee? but I guess the fact that everyone is everyone brother eludes some of you. I hope you find solace in whatever ethical values you have....

[PS90]

Fascinating conversation. Interesting what different perspectives people hold on this issue. I'm over 60 and have spent most of my life in the accounting field, but when I was in my 20's I worked at several jobs which relied on tips. Part of this was just picking up extra beer money when I was in the military, but later it was the more serious matter of working my way through college. Looking back, I recall meeting boorish, stingy, and inconsiderate people who tipped little or nothing because they didn't care or were ignorant of how things worked, but on the other end of the spectrum there were people who seemed to think they owned you because they placed a few coins or bills in your palm. So I understand the point staygulf is trying to make, although I think the logic is being tortured in a very cynical manner. And I'm not persuaded by the concept that insuring a person earns minimum wage is particularly germane. That really wasn't the intent of the original post, was it?

 

The great majority of customers I encountered were kind, decent people who recognized I was a young person doing my best at trying to get ahead, and wanted to be sure I was treated fairly when they tipped. I learned a valuable lesson about human nature that has served me well over the years. To this day, I believe one can make reliable character judgements about a person based on the way he treats people who are in a perceived socially or economically inferior position to him/her.

 

Being thankful for the courteous & noble way most people treated me when I was young, I try to emulate them. To me, that means tipping on the generous side. I agree with klfrodo completely, because I believe if I can't afford to tip generosuly then I can't afford the service. And yes, on our cruise last week I did tip room service each time when they brought us two caraffes of coffee every morning. I don't know how they felt about it or whether it made any significant difference in their compensation, but I do know I honored the memory of each and every person who did the same for me over 40 years ago. I can live with that and will continue to do so.

 

Very well said. Thanks. :)

 

some really ridiculous posts IMO..

US Federal wage and hour law allows tipped employees to be paid a different minimum wage. It takes into consideration that tips are paid. Its true that if with tips the regular minimum is not made the Employer has to make it up. Most tipped employees make much more than the minimum wage(but this assumes that the employee was paid 15% of the bill whether they actually get it or not or they would just pocket it and say that they were stiffed). In fact at some of the upscale restaurants its not unusual to make $50,000 per year or more(sometimes more then the chef).

So if your server is making more than the minimum wage does this mean you shouldn't have to tip at all? What is your point? You aren't in merry old England. here at least the employee who works hard and give generally good service is rewarded(except by the cheap so and so who count their money).

What happens when the employer has to make it up because the employee doesn't make the minimum including tips? the employee gets fired.

The same on ships. if they get stiffed enough rightfully or wrongfully they are booted because obviously something is wrong.....

somewhere.

 

I would prefer mandatory service charges or it included in the fare. Until they do that however, shouldn't you just go along and not punish the employee? but I guess the fact that everyone is everyone brother eludes some of you. I hope you find solace in whatever ethical values you have....

 

I just wanted to point out (without taking either side) that the federal minimum wage for wait staff is often superceded in most states by their own labor laws. In Washington state, for example, employers are required to pay minimum wage, without regard for tip-income. BUT, tips are still encouraged. That doesn't really argue against your point - I'm just 'splaining myself. ;)

[staygulf]

some really ridiculous posts IMO..

US Federal wage and hour law allows tipped employees to be paid a different minimum wage. It takes into consideration that tips are paid. Its true that if with tips the regular minimum is not made the Employer has to make it up. Most tipped employees make much more than the minimum wage(but this assumes that the employee was paid 15% of the bill whether they actually get it or not or they would just pocket it and say that they were stiffed). In fact at some of the upscale restaurants its not unusual to make $50,000 per year or more(sometimes more then the chef).

So if your server is making more than the minimum wage does this mean you shouldn't have to tip at all? What is your point? You aren't in merry old England. here at least the employee who works hard and give generally good service is rewarded(except by the cheap so and so who count their money).

What happens when the employer has to make it up because the employee doesn't make the minimum including tips? the employee gets fired.

The same on ships. if they get stiffed enough rightfully or wrongfully they are booted because obviously something is wrong.....

somewhere.

 

I would prefer mandatory service charges or it included in the fare. Until they do that however, shouldn't you just go along and not punish the employee? but I guess the fact that everyone is everyone brother eludes some of you. I hope you find solace in whatever ethical values you have....

 

That just underlines how ridiculous the tipping system is. Someone who takes the raw ingredients and skillfully and lovingly crafts a delicious meal for you (as one would expect in an upscale restaurant) can earn less than the person who carries it from the kitchen to your table ! But then, I guess, you wander into the kitchen and tip the chef. If not, why not ?

[PS90]

That just underlines how ridiculous the tipping system is. Someone who takes the raw ingredients and skillfully and lovingly crafts a delicious meal for you (as one would expect in an upscale restaurant) can earn less than the person who carries it from the kitchen to your table ! But then, I guess, you wander into the kitchen and tip the chef. If not, why not ?

 

Again, I'm not necessarily taking either side here, but there is a lot to be said about the person bringing the food vs. the chef (as far as earning tips), because the chef doesn't usually have to put up with the customers - while the waiter has to put on a smilie face/offer good service, even when they are annoying and obnoxious.

[mbisson]

Again, I'm not necessarily taking either side here, but there is a lot to be said about the person bringing the food vs. the chef (as far as earning tips), because the chef doesn't usually have to put up with the customers - while the waiter has to put on a smilie face/offer good service, even when they are annoying and obnoxious.

 

And it's also not unusual for the waiters to share tips with the back help

[staygulf]

Again, I'm not necessarily taking either side here, but there is a lot to be said about the person bringing the food vs. the chef (as far as earning tips), because the chef doesn't usually have to put up with the customers - while the waiter has to put on a smilie face/offer good service, even when they are annoying and obnoxious.

 

So you're saying that someone who lovingly prepares your food does not deserve a tip, but someone who "puts on" a smilie face and probably has no interest other than to get you out of the door as quickly as possible so that the table can be turned round, does deserve a tip ?

[cgrout78]

And it's also not unusual for the waiters to share tips with the back help

 

 

When my brother was a busser, he was supposed to get tipped out by the waitstaff like 25% of their tips.

[PS90]

So you're saying that someone who lovingly prepares your food does not deserve a tip, but someone who "puts on" a smilie face and probably has no interest other than to get you out of the door as quickly as possible so that the table can be turned round, does deserve a tip ?

 

I'm not saying that tipping is any more right or wrong than you are, but the waiter is in a service profession, right? Which are the people for whom the tipping convention was started in the first place. The chef is not in a service profession, I don't think.

 

As a side note, though, it seems to me that you are using the old sensationalistic effect of the media to convey an underlying bias - by saying the chef "lovingly prepares your food", while the waiter "has no interest other than to get you out of the door as quickly as possible", when in reality both of those are completely unfounded generalizations, unless of course, you are personally acquainted with every chef and waiter on earth.

[staygulf]

And it's also not unusual for the waiters to share tips with the back help

 

You regard the chef de cuisine as "back help" ?

[staygulf]

I'm not saying that tipping is any more right or wrong than you are, but the waiter is in a service profession, right? Which are the people for whom the tipping convention was started in the first place. The chef is not in a service profession, I don't think.

 

As a side note, though, it seems to me that you are using the old sensationalistic effect of the media to convey an underlying bias - by saying the chef "lovingly prepares your food", while the waiter "has no interest other than to get you out of the door as quickly as possible", when in reality both of those are completely unfounded generalizations, unless of course, you are personally acquainted with every chef and waiter on earth.

 

I was not referring to all waiters, only the one suggested by you, the one who "has to put on a smilie face". If he was enjoying his job and serving with pride he wouldn't have to put it on. You know very well my views from previous posts. Tipping should be for good service only.