If HAL is gonna go Post-Panamax...

[bepsf]

...with it's proposed 110,000+ ton, 3000 passenger newbuild for 2014 - What type of General Arrangement, Public Spaces or Amenities would you like to see?

 

Personally, I'd like to see a HAL-specific derivative of the 130,000 ton, 3652 passenger Carnival Dream

...without all the waterslides and Y-Funnels of course - and with one fewer decks in the forward "Island". I really like the idea of the hull verandah staterooms and the lifeboats suspended below the wraparound Promenade Deck - which would make the deck where the boats are suspended perfect for public spaces that don't need windows such as the Casino, meeting rooms, movie theatre, Disco, Queen's Room/Cabaret, Photo Gallery, Art Gallery, Bookstore and other shops. The Promenade Deck would be available for the public spaces that need more light and air such as the Sports Bar and Library/Explorations Cafe (Forward, flanking the opening above the Casino below) the Ocean Bar amidships overlooking the atrium, and the Wine/Champagne Bar located just ahead of the Explorer's Lounge and Pinnacle Grill located aft on each of the two upper balconies flanking the upper section of the 3-deck-high Dining Room. (Yes, the band in Explorer's Lounge would serenade diners below - Fixed Seating on the midlevel balconies and on the slightly-raised central well of the Lower Dining Room, and Open Seating remaining along the windows of the Lower Dining Room.)

 

If possible, I'd like to see split funnel/exhaust uptakes so that one could walk along the centerline of the ship from the forward showlounge to the aft dining rooms - one might be able to catch a glimpse of the wake in the distance behind the ship by standing at the forward staircase tower on Promenade Deck and looking aft through all the public rooms, through the atrium and between the twin funnel uptakes, aft staircases and elevators and the Upper Dining Room. I really would like to see the Glass Elevators in the outside center of the ship again, but flanking a full-height atrium that's crowned by a huge glass skylight above the Observation Deck where a giant orange Dale Chihuly chandelier is installed, suspended from the steel skylight framework.

 

As far as the staterooms - I'd like to see 4 Penthouses (two amidship, two others at the forward corners of the deck just above the Bridge) located on a "Neptune Deck" where an entire deck of Deluxe Suites are interspersed with a few adjoining Concierge Verandah staterooms so that a family could take a Deluxe Suite and put the kids (or grandparents) in a smaller stateroom next door as a second bedroom. Below would be Navigation Deck with a centrally-located double-deck Neptune Lounge with a spiral staircase serving the Deluxe Suites on this and the deck above. I'd also like to see a return of the aft corner suites and a pair of forward corner suites, but unlike the Vista/Signatures I'd like to see windows wrapping around both exposed walls of these suites with balcony doors on both exposures and even a window into the bathroom. (call 'em "Panorama Suites" - the ships could be the "Panorama Class")

 

For the Upper Decks and Lido, I'd like to see a double-decked Magrodome space in the center: Lido Deck would be Lido/Spa Verandah Staterooms forward, the pool area midship with the Lido Bar overlooking the upper atrium, the Lido restaurant and the Seaview Pool aft. The Spa/Retreat Deck would be above with the Spa facilities forward, upper enclosed balcony overlooking the Lido pool where the Retreat Cabanas would be located along either side but protected by the deck and Magrodome above - The Silk Den and Tamarind would overlook the aft upper pool and the top of the atrium, and an open sundeck with a glassed-in Slice Pizza Parlor/Soda Fountain aft of the funnels overlooking the aft pool. Atop the ship would be the Observation Deck with an extra-height Crow's Nest forward and the return of the Oak Room to one side and a Sky Room (for private parties & receptions) on the other, open sundecks and the Magrodome in the center and the Oasis/Loft aft flanked by sports courts and sundecks with stairs down to the Pizza/Soda parlor and aft sundecks located behind the classic HAL paired-funnels (a-la Rotterdam & Amsterdam).

[Koshlong]

I still find it hard to visualize a 3000 passenger HAL ship, but I've got to admit that I'd like to try a cove balcony like the ones on the Dream!

[rochelle_s]

Brian,

 

Me thinks you have put some thought into this....you shuld forward the above to HAL...if they adopt it maybe you could be the ship's godfather! :-)

 

Rochelle

[Bill B]

They need tiered, aft public decks with pool(s) and at least two hot tubs... a la the Diamond & Sapphire Princess.

[sparky-elpaso]

How about an area like the Colony Club on RCI Radiance class - with places to play cards, games, chess, etc. and a couple of self-leveling pool tables.

[ab0si]

I wouldn't sail on a ship that large. period. exclamation point.

[fann1sh]

Brian: wow. Wow, wow, WOW!

 

Your concept is amazing. Basing the ship on Dream, with the lifeboats below the promenade is brilliant. It's all well thought out, but two aspects of your plan totally caught my imagination:

 

I really would like to see the Glass Elevators in the outside center of the ship again, but flanking a full-height atrium that's crowned by a huge glass skylight above the Observation Deck where a giant orange Dale Chihuly chandelier is installed, suspended from the steel skylight framework.

 

Dale Chihuly art on a HAL ship. Perfect.

I'd also like to see a return of the aft corner suites and a pair of forward corner suites, but unlike the Vista/Signatures I'd like to see windows wrapping around both exposed walls of these suites with balcony doors on both exposures and even a window into the bathroom. (call 'em "Panorama Suites" - the ships could be the "Panorama Class")

 

The aftmost corner suites on the Signatures are so disappointing. Granted, not everyone is a wake watcher, but it would sure suit me!

 

The only thing you might have missed is a gimmick: something like the lawn club on Solstice, ice bar on Epic, planetarium on QM2. So, let me suggest one I think would fit HAL: a virtual reality room. Possible in 2014? Nothing as elaborate as a Star Trek holodeck :cool:, but perhaps a VR tour of...say...Titanic's first class public rooms. Change the tour periodically as new VR programs are developed.

 

P.S.: sorry for the raft of recent fangirl responses to your posts, Brian. I'm not stalking you. :eek:

[amunhbuu]

If you base it on the Dream, I think that you would have to lower the number of staterooms. Everything I have read about the Dream is that it is crowded.

 

Dream: 130,000 Tonnes - 3,652 Passengers (35.8)

Spirit: 85,900 Tonnes - 2,680 passengers (32.1)

Eurodam: 86,700 - 2,104 (41.2)

Oasis: 225,282 Tonnes - 5,400 passengers (41.7)

Liberty of the Seas: 154,407 Tonnes - 4,370 passengers (35.3)

 

Though, now that I look at those numbers, I really didn't feel crowded on a spirit class ship nor on the LoS. Though, we typically sail during low season when there are less families aboard.

[Crazy Gramps]

i'm with the " don't build it" crowd.

It wouldn't be HAL at that size

 

Gramps

[Rotterdam]

be hired as designer / decorator for HAL.....

 

 

We recently gave up on HAL after several disasterous cruises but your ideas sound wonderful & thoughtful....

 

...with it's proposed 110,000+ ton, 3000 passenger newbuild for 2014 - What type of General Arrangement, Public Spaces or Amenities would you like to see?

 

Personally, I'd like to see a HAL-specific derivative of the 130,000 ton, 3652 passenger Carnival Dream

...without all the waterslides and Y-Funnels of course - and with one fewer decks in the forward "Island". I really like the idea of the hull verandah staterooms and the lifeboats suspended below the wraparound Promenade Deck - which would make the deck where the boats are suspended perfect for public spaces that don't need windows such as the Casino, meeting rooms, movie theatre, Disco, Queen's Room/Cabaret, Photo Gallery, Art Gallery, Bookstore and other shops. The Promenade Deck would be available for the public spaces that need more light and air such as the Sports Bar and Library/Explorations Cafe (Forward, flanking the opening above the Casino below) the Ocean Bar amidships overlooking the atrium, and the Wine/Champagne Bar located just ahead of the Explorer's Lounge and Pinnacle Grill located aft on each of the two upper balconies flanking the upper section of the 3-deck-high Dining Room. (Yes, the band in Explorer's Lounge would serenade diners below - Fixed Seating on the midlevel balconies and on the slightly-raised central well of the Lower Dining Room, and Open Seating remaining along the windows of the Lower Dining Room.)

 

If possible, I'd like to see split funnel/exhaust uptakes so that one could walk along the centerline of the ship from the forward showlounge to the aft dining rooms - one might be able to catch a glimpse of the wake in the distance behind the ship by standing at the forward staircase tower on Promenade Deck and looking aft through all the public rooms, through the atrium and between the twin funnel uptakes, aft staircases and elevators and the Upper Dining Room. I really would like to see the Glass Elevators in the outside center of the ship again, but flanking a full-height atrium that's crowned by a huge glass skylight above the Observation Deck where a giant orange Dale Chihuly chandelier is installed, suspended from the steel skylight framework.

 

As far as the staterooms - I'd like to see 4 Penthouses (two amidship, two others at the forward corners of the deck just above the Bridge) located on a "Neptune Deck" where an entire deck of Deluxe Suites are interspersed with a few adjoining Concierge Verandah staterooms so that a family could take a Deluxe Suite and put the kids (or grandparents) in a smaller stateroom next door as a second bedroom. Below would be Navigation Deck with a centrally-located double-deck Neptune Lounge with a spiral staircase serving the Deluxe Suites on this and the deck above. I'd also like to see a return of the aft corner suites and a pair of forward corner suites, but unlike the Vista/Signatures I'd like to see windows wrapping around both exposed walls of these suites with balcony doors on both exposures and even a window into the bathroom. (call 'em "Panorama Suites" - the ships could be the "Panorama Class")

 

For the Upper Decks and Lido, I'd like to see a double-decked Magrodome space in the center: Lido Deck would be Lido/Spa Verandah Staterooms forward, the pool area midship with the Lido Bar overlooking the upper atrium, the Lido restaurant and the Seaview Pool aft. The Spa/Retreat Deck would be above with the Spa facilities forward, upper enclosed balcony overlooking the Lido pool where the Retreat Cabanas would be located along either side but protected by the deck and Magrodome above - The Silk Den and Tamarind would overlook the aft upper pool and the top of the atrium, and an open sundeck with a glassed-in Slice Pizza Parlor/Soda Fountain aft of the funnels overlooking the aft pool. Atop the ship would be the Observation Deck with an extra-height Crow's Nest forward and the return of the Oak Room to one side and a Sky Room (for private parties & receptions) on the other, open sundecks and the Magrodome in the center and the Oasis/Loft aft flanked by sports courts and sundecks with stairs down to the Pizza/Soda parlor and aft sundecks located behind the classic HAL paired-funnels (a-la Rotterdam & Amsterdam).

[hpf]

I wouldn't sail on a ship that large. period. exclamation point.

 

I agree, i like the smaller ships. Have been on RCL and i don't like them at all. Helen

[DFD1]

I don't want them built either, but HAL is very likely to build them anyway.

 

If they do, I think Brian has some excellent ideas to make them better and certainly more in keeping with the HAL tradition.

 

I will not be anxious to sail on them, but building them more in keeping with the HAL tradition would certainly help.

 

Brian, I hope you'll send your ideas along to HAL. If recent rennovations are any guage, they need all the help they can get.

[bepsf]

If you base it on the Dream, I think that you would have to lower the number of staterooms. Everything I have read about the Dream is that it is crowded.

 

Your point is spot-on - Which is why the HAL Panorama Class would have fewer and larger staterooms and suites, accommodating only 3000 pax - resulting in a superior space ratio of 43.3.

 

The only thing you might have missed is a gimmick: something like the lawn club on Solstice, ice bar on Epic, planetarium on QM2. So, let me suggest one I think would fit HAL: a virtual reality room. Possible in 2014? Nothing as elaborate as a Star Trek holodeck , but perhaps a VR tour of...say...Titanic's first class public rooms. Change the tour periodically as new VR programs are developed.

 

I think this is a superb idea - a pair of these two-deck high cylindrical rooms could occupy interior occupy space off the lower Atrium hear the Shore Excursion Desk: Not only could they do pre-programmed VR tours of liners of the past such as Titanic, Normandie, Nieuw Amsterdam II, etc - but they could do tours of sights around the world - Imagine "walking" through the Hermitage, Angkor Wat or Machu Pichu while on a 14 day Caribbean cruise!

 

It also occurred to me that the starboard balcony of the Upper Dining Room could be Canoletto - and that it and Pinnacle (on the Port balcony) could have great sliding glass walls at the rear of those rooms so that one could dine al-fresco on the aft Promenade Deck in nice weather. In addition, by having the large double galley on the lower deck and a pair of galleys dedicated to Pinnacle and Canoletto each on Promenade deck - one could select something off the menus for those restaurants while at your table in the Fixed or Open seating areas - so if Judy craves the Steak Diane she enjoyed last night in Pinnacle and Robert wants his Ravioli Bolognese that same night at their regular table for two on the Fixed Seating Balcony, they can have it! (for an extra charge, of course) ;)

 

In addition, the lower dining room could be easily segmented so that as demand for Fixed or Open seating varied from cruise to cruise, the areas dedicated to those would be transitioned - ie: If more folks wanted Fixed Seating, one or two areas by the windows in LDR that ordinarily would be dedicated to Open Seating would be Fixed Seating - or if more passengers wanted Open seating on the next cruise, the center well could be opened up to accommodate.

[jhannah]

Excellent ideas for a ship, Brian. But it seems too big to retain the character HAL ships have enjoyed across their fleet.

[Taxguy77]

Some excellent, well thought out ideas.

However, DW and I will not be on a ship that size. HAL is one subsidiary of Carnival and should stick to its niche, not try to be all things to all men. Cunard is doing it and seems successful.

[kazu]

Great ideas Brian - send them off - when they build their 'Carnival' ship neither I nor dh will be on. the Nieuw Amsterdam was enough for us.

 

If we're going to sail Carnival (I doubt it), we'll sail her and pay the cheaper prices.

 

Nieuw Amsterdam IMO could not pull off the larger numbers well (and it's only a couple hundred over the Zuiderdam) so I don't see how HAL can do a ship this size and keep the HAL 'feeling'. Just my thoughts.

[PirateShark]

While I'm loathe to go on a ship with 3,000 other pax or so, I am very intrigued by Brian's concept. The one thing I would like to have is a Martini Bar a la Celebrity (with ice topped bar). I loved all the lounges on the O but missed a dedicated Martini Bar with all sorts of strange/wonderful and colorful concotions :) Also, I agree with something like a lawn club concept - ditch the slides, ice rinks, bowling alleys, et al though. I can do that at home. But a game of bocce while cruising? That does sound very civilized especially if a wine bar is close at hand with some complementary antipasti to go with. That would be fun in the afternoon on a sea day.

[crusinbanjo]

Brian,

 

Me thinks you have put some thought into this....you shuld forward the above to HAL...if they adopt it maybe you could be the ship's godfather! :-)

 

Rochelle

 

I agree you have put a whole lot of thought into what a 110,000 ton HAL ship should be. I do hope that they incorporate your ideas..... .....Personally, I will never sail on that ship. In my mind it is a too DAM big. (pun intended)

[GPoll189]

I love having an open discussion about the future of HAL. However, the posters who said the think that HAL should stay small is preaching to a wall. In multiple ways already HAL has said they are going to go larger. Stien Kruse has said it in a press conference at the inauguation of Nieuw Amsterdam and also in an article in one of the industries magazines. Then someone has even posted that the captains are saying the same thing now.

 

This discussion is probably a mute point because the plans of the ship have already be drawn if they want to have them come online around 2014. It takes about 18-24 months from keel laying to key handover. Add a couple of more months on to that for computer and nautical plans and you have 2011.

 

If you look at the industry the ship are getting larger. All lines are increasing tonnage in their new builds. Seabourne and Oceania who have smaller ship are creating ships that have more passengers than their previous ships. This is the move of the industry.

 

Finally, if you are the people who state that they won't sail on the larger ships and will go to other lines you have people that are saying the opposite. Some of these passenger on the smaller lines might want to try ships of larger size.

 

One last note. This just came to me. How many times can you go to the same port. Most ships visit St. Thomas, Nassau, St. Maarteen, etc. The ships are becoming the destination and not the ports. I know for me I go on cruises to relax and enjoy the ship. I have seen these ports enough.

[Rutland Gate]

We think the Eurodam is too big. We've been on it and have abandoned it for the smaller classes in the Fleet.

[Taxguy77]

While I'm loathe to go on a ship with 3,000 other pax or so, I am very intrigued by Brian's concept. The one thing I would like to have is a Martini Bar a la Celebrity (with ice topped bar). I loved all the lounges on the O but missed a dedicated Martini Bar with all sorts of strange/wonderful and colorful concotions :) Also, I agree with something like a lawn club concept - ditch the slides, ice rinks, bowling alleys, et al though. I can do that at home. But a game of bocce while cruising? That does sound very civilized especially if a wine bar is close at hand with some complementary antipasti to go with. That would be fun in the afternoon on a sea day.

 

The ships are almost too big now, I had fun on a small freighter playing shuffelboard on a rolling sea. Added another dimension to the game. :D Of course bocce would make small ship movements fun, especially after some antipasti and wine. :p

In my case, it would also cut down on the food served for dinner. :o

[MrsMuir]

Great work, Brian. From your mouth to Stein's ear!

 

When I see a great itinerary in the HAL brochures, my heart sinks if the ship listed is not an S- or R-class damship. We tried Westerdam and liked her, but we loved Rotterdam (in her former, pre-Retreat glory), Zaandam and Ryndam.

 

I guess we small-ship enthusiasts just aren't important to HAL.

 

Mrs M

[djhsolara]

I love having an open discussion about the future of HAL. However, the posters who said the think that HAL should stay small is preaching to a wall. In multiple ways already HAL has said they are going to go larger. Stien Kruse has said it in a press conference at the inauguation of Nieuw Amsterdam and also in an article in one of the industries magazines. Then someone has even posted that the captains are saying the same thing now.

 

This discussion is probably a mute point because the plans of the ship have already be drawn if they want to have them come online around 2014. It takes about 18-24 months from keel laying to key handover. Add a couple of more months on to that for computer and nautical plans and you have 2011.

 

If you look at the industry the ship are getting larger. All lines are increasing tonnage in their new builds. Seabourne and Oceania who have smaller ship are creating ships that have more passengers than their previous ships. This is the move of the industry.

 

Finally, if you are the people who state that they won't sail on the larger ships and will go to other lines you have people that are saying the opposite. Some of these passenger on the smaller lines might want to try ships of larger size.

 

One last note. This just came to me. How many times can you go to the same port. Most ships visit St. Thomas, Nassau, St. Maarteen, etc. The ships are becoming the destination and not the ports. I know for me I go on cruises to relax and enjoy the ship. I have seen these ports enough.

 

 

I have never been on a ship smaller than a HAL Vista ship, so I do not have any comparison to the "small ship" experience. I can say that we love the Vista class and Signature class. Honestly, I can't imagine being on a ship smaller than Vista, but I will say that one of the things that keeps bringing us back to the HAL ships is the hydropool in the spa...and the "real" hydropools are only on Vista and Signature, so we're most likely not inclined to try a smaller ship unless it would be the right itinerary. We're pretty much just about getting away to the warmer weather in the Caribbean...so the ship is mostly our destination and the destinations are just the nice diversions.

 

As has been said before, eventually the smaller ships will come to the end of their lifespan as HAL ships. HAL is in the mainstream cruise industry, they are not in the luxury cruise industry. IMHO, unless they plan to change their entire premise and move into the luxury cruise industry then we can all plan to see larger ships coming into the HAL fleet in the future. I don't know that we'll ever see something that would be the Allure of the HAL or Oasis of the HAL, but larger for sure.

 

I like the ideas that have been proposed by Brian as they certainly seem to be truly thought out. I have absolutely no problem with the larger concept...it is the level of service and amenities that needs to remain the same no matter the size. If they are both there, then for me the size of the ship does not matter.

[crusinbanjo]

We think the Eurodam is too big. We've been on it and have abandoned it for the smaller classes in the Fleet.

 

I think I said this before, but the largest ship Mrs Banjo & I cruised on was 1500 pax. We felt then, and still do now, that it was to big for our liking. While on Prinsendam last summer in St petersburg, Eurodam docked in front of us, although we did not get a tour of the ship, it was VERY big. I have to say that I will never cruise aboard Eurodam either. :(:o

[NH Cruisers]

Having sailed on the Dream, I like your ideas Brian. The big wrap around promenade with cantilevered wirlpool tubs is nice. I did see a lot of space that could have been put to much better use on it too. Like out side the boutiques, its a ship length outside deck hidden from passengers unless you look behind the curtains. Its a crew only area outside on both sides.

 

Too as you stated, take away a full deck or so of staterooms. Have more suites too. Pax would be below 3000 at that point. The ship was tall. On its top deck we looked down at the top deck on the Voyager of the seas.

 

The atrium was lacking too. Make that bigger and do the glass outside elevators.

 

Need a larger pool than Dream.

 

Lastly, please install some sort of club, lounge or bar enclosed way up on the top deck. The dream has nothing like it.