Elation Propulsion + 72$

[LHP]

This is ECACTLY my beef..there were problems before we left..they knew it and then fed us BS for days..God forbid they tell the damn truth..the lack of transparency was atrocious..its all about the $$$$$$$$$$...they got plenty of mine by the way!! OH well..I won a medal, won 100$ on a pull tab, got some ships on a stick and alot of fun in Gatsbys bar to tell stories about!!..Im still ticked about Carnivals lack of communication.

 

I am not certain how Carnival could have known before you left the port.

 

We got off the ship the morning you folks got on...and we did not have any problems at all.

 

In fact, we had been on the Elation for 9 days without a single hiccup.

 

According to the OP... "On the second day I felt a lurch and watched us go from about 20knots to about 6 or so. The whole next day we would go slow then speed up."

 

 

While this is a bummer, I don't think "there were problems before you left"....I think something broke on the second day and Carnival did their best to fix it.

 

I have no doubt that once the ship broke the second day ... you were probably not updated as much as you should have been. I have not found that to be Carnival's strong suit.

 

But at that point, you were already almost to Cozumel...so Carnival did the best they could do to make it to Cozumel and back home.

[LHP]

It was 50.00 plus like 22$ and some cents in port taxes....

 

 

Our back to back on the Elation had some weird credits as well. In fact, we have done 6 cruises in the past 3 months and every one of them (Triumph, Destiny, Liberty and Elation) has had some weird credits on them.

 

Usually around $3 and some change per person.

 

I am not going to argue with free money.....but I did wonder where these came from. I was going to ask a friend of mine onboard...but was having such a good time..I forgot...:eek:

[World Gallery]

Hesitated to post this but figure, what the heck at this point. From past major negative experiences on cruise ships (ex.Splendor), it seems to me that Carnival does what is right and fair when the media gets involved. I can't remember all of the facts surrounding the Splendor incident (and do realize that was much worse than the Elation in regards to what people had to go through) but from what I remember, when it was all over the media, that is when Carnival put their best foot forward with their offerings (of which the people deserved).

I know that the media can work for the positive or negative in any situation but just wondering, if the media starting talking about this issue (all of the dishonestly, etc), would it change anything?

[dan40]

As a newly solo cruiser, I refuse to pay 200% for Carnival when I can do much lower solo supplements on other lines. I dont love Carnival enough to pay 200%.

 

.. and back to Elation .. Im still concerned. If it never got up to speed on the way back, who knows if it can or cant. Time will tell.

 

Seems to me that 200% X a Carnival fare of $700.00= $1400.00

 

While 150% X line A's fare of $1000.00= $1500.00

 

So it seems that ashoppin' you must go, same as always.

[kypink]

You're not really missing anything in Calica. It's pretty much a rest stop. But I do think they should have handled the problem better than they did. And giving everyone $72 they knew people would give it back to them spending it on drinks, merch, etc. I'm going on the Elation on Feb 6th. and hopefully nothing like that will happen. But if so I don't think I would care too much.

I agree. Calica is not much of a stop. When I was on Elation in October, it was a rough ride at times. I wonder if it was having problems then.

[3timer]

A few items that happened that were not talked about:

 

• The ship at more than one point had "NO PROPULSION" we were floating ducks in semi rough water. SAFETY WAS A BIG CONCERN
  
• They found crusing speed near 16 knots the last hour to Cozumel and 16 knots leaving for the entire next day when were to be at port. Funny they slowed the ship for the next 36 hours so they wouldnt arrive to early. If the weather would have been nice that would have been great but 10-12 swells, 50 degs and clouds CAN YOU SAY BINGO
  
• 10:30 pm Friday on our return you could see the lights of the port of Mobile
  
• Docked 2:30am while most slept
  
• The fact is they gave everyone $72.00 and I spent mine on $6.50 beers. They got there mony back from most and they knew that going in. I belive it was worse that it was told and that was "keep Quite money"
  

Communication was poor at all levels of the staff.

When you question the facts they give the "GOTCHA" you agreed to the contract. Im not looking for compensation Im just looking for honesty

 

5 days in the Gulf and never put a toe in the water.

[mavis2222]

They could of gone to calica if they wanted to. You can see it from Cozumel..You can swim there..Its about 12 miles from Cozumel. But since they didnt know how long it would take them to get back at 6knots. so they left after the first stop to get ahead start in case other problems develop.

 

Calica is a small cut out of rock that the ship ties up near. With only limited propulsion, it would make it hard to manuever to tie up properly without hiring a tugboat. Probably why they decided to not stop there. Not much there anyways. Unless you tak a cab or shore excursion. I was there Apr 2010.

[Jabee]

**Top speed is 14.3 knots and normal cruising speed ist12.9 knots...

see: http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/shipdetails.aspx?MMSI=355831000

 

**Conflicting stories....one says the ship limped into port, another said they had full speed and arrived at the entrance to the Bay at 10:30 and docked at 2:30am

**one person says the ship completely stopped...another says they slowed down and went very slow

 

**I have also seen Carnival and their poor PR skills...we also were 3:00 getting into Cozumel and I asked the Guest services and they swore we were on time

**Last year on the Triiumph, we were ready to board at 11:30, but problems did not allow the prior cruise to debark until 3:00...we sat in the lobby and kept hearing it would be "soon" and were given "water and crackers." But we finally got on.

 

I work in Transporation (I am the School Bus Guy) and I know how you can be late, miss a student etc. I know what it is like to have to send a tow truck for a broken down bus. I guess I just understand things happen, like the issues on the Elation.

 

But I will still cruise on her in a month.

[hawaiibound24]

**Top speed is 14.3 knots and normal cruising speed ist12.9 knots...

see: http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/shipdetails.aspx?MMSI=355831000

 

**Conflicting stories....one says the ship limped into port, another said they had full speed and arrived at the entrance to the Bay at 10:30 and docked at 2:30am

**one person says the ship completely stopped...another says they slowed down and went very slow

 

**I have also seen Carnival and their poor PR skills...we also were 3:00 getting into Cozumel and I asked the Guest services and they swore we were on time

**Last year on the Triiumph, we were ready to board at 11:30, but problems did not allow the prior cruise to debark until 3:00...we sat in the lobby and kept hearing it would be "soon" and were given "water and crackers." But we finally got on.

 

I work in Transporation (I am the School Bus Guy) and I know how you can be late, miss a student etc. I know what it is like to have to send a tow truck for a broken down bus. I guess I just understand things happen, like the issues on the Elation.

 

But I will still cruise on her in a month.

 

Most modern cruise ships can sail around 20 knots.... I see that on there and not sure what that means.... wikipedia says the following about the Elation:

 

Career

Name: Elation Owner: Carnival Corporation & plc Operator: Carnival Cruise Lines Port of registry: Panama Builder: Kvaerner Masa-Yards Helsinki, Finland Completed: 1998 Maiden voyage: April 1, 1998 In service: 1998-present Refit: 2009 Identification: IMO number: 9118721 Status: In Active Service as of 2010 Notes: First ship to have Azipod propulsion units. General characteristics Class and type: Fantasy Class Tonnage: 70,367 GRT Length: 855 ft (261 m) Decks: 13 Propulsion: 2 Azipod propulsion units Speed: 21kts Capacity: 2,052 Passengers Crew: 920

[firefly333]

Seems to me that 200% X a Carnival fare of $700.00= $1400.00

 

While 150% X line A's fare of $1000.00= $1500.00

 

So it seems that ashoppin' you must go, same as always.

 

I just took a 3 day Liberty OTS, $299 for a balcony, 0 supplement for solo.

 

I do have Mariner booked as a triple, for less than $1500. People sure love to exaggerate RCL's prices. There are deals to be had .. same as on Carnival.

 

=====

 

as far as the post about getting media involved .. these folks missed one port. thats all that actually happened. This happens all the time. Its not media worthy... no conspiracy involved about not telling folks before they left, if Carnival didnt know when it left Mobile.

[hawaiibound24]

A few items that happened that were not talked about:

 

• The ship at more than one point had "NO PROPULSION" we were floating ducks in semi rough water. SAFETY WAS A BIG CONCERN
  
• They found crusing speed near 16 knots the last hour to Cozumel and 16 knots leaving for the entire next day when were to be at port. Funny they slowed the ship for the next 36 hours so they wouldnt arrive to early. If the weather would have been nice that would have been great but 10-12 swells, 50 degs and clouds CAN YOU SAY BINGO
  
• 10:30 pm Friday on our return you could see the lights of the port of Mobile
  
• Docked 2:30am while most slept
  
• The fact is they gave everyone $72.00 and I spent mine on $6.50 beers. They got there mony back from most and they knew that going in. I belive it was worse that it was told and that was "keep Quite money"
  

Communication was poor at all levels of the staff.

When you question the facts they give the "GOTCHA" you agreed to the contract. Im not looking for compensation Im just looking for honesty

 

5 days in the Gulf and never put a toe in the water.

 

Not sure I understand what the safety issue might be.....just because the ship was not moving at times....

[hawaiibound24]

They could of gone to calica if they wanted to. You can see it from Cozumel..You can swim there..Its about 12 miles from Cozumel. But since they didnt know how long it would take them to get back at 6knots. so they left after the first stop to get ahead start in case other problems develop.

 

Calica is a small cut out of rock that the ship ties up near. With only limited propulsion, it would make it hard to manuever to tie up properly without hiring a tugboat. Probably why they decided to not stop there. Not much there anyways. Unless you tak a cab or shore excursion. I was there Apr 2010.

 

 

Ships don't use the main propulsion units to dock, They have special small units which move them side to side. They should have been able to move front and back with even what they had. I would guess they didn't stop just in case more issues came up.

[firefly333]

Not sure I understand what the safety issue might be.....just because the ship was not moving at times....

 

When we missed two ports last time on Conquest and the waves were going up and crashing down .. it obviously affected newbys attitude toward things.

 

quiet money or whatever .. Carnival, Id like some quiet hush money. please.

 

Carnival only owed them the taxes on the port charges ... and gave them open bar and extra $50.

[RN2BDFW]

We were on this cruise, booked last minute as a get-away before I return to nursing school on Tuesday of this week. I was extremely happy if there was any chance at all of returning to Mobile late, that we skipped Calica and returned home.

 

It is very true that the updates on our "condition" as a vessel were slow to come and pretty deliberately misleading.

 

I am an early riser and when I awoke on Wednesday morning (Cozumel day), the ship was absolutely dead in the water. I was sure we were going to be the next Splendor on the news. Eventually she did get moving again, albeit very slowly.

 

The weather sucked in Cozumel. We have been there before, so didn't even get off the ship. We got our suits on and sat in the hot tub behind Tiffany's and enjoyed some conversation with nice folks who came down from New York for the cruise. If you cruise in January there is a pretty good chance the weather is going to be less than optimal. So that was not that big of a deal to us.

 

This was our third cruise with Carnival in the last four years. We are probably done with them as a brand, not because of this issue, but because we are seeing a steady decline in the quality of the experience on the whole - food, service, etc. Their lack of communication regarding things on this particular cruise is just kind of icing on the cake.

 

We had a reasonably good time on this cruise given the circumstances. I dont' get seasick, so the normal January roughness was no big deal to me, but DH wasn't feeling too hot. There were hairs in our linens the day we got on board - I don't think they changed the sheets - and hairs in the shower. Gross. Never did meet the person who took care of our room. Our waiter was awesome. Most of the food service people at the buffet (Tiffany's) looked like they needed to get off the ship for a while and relax and we just plain quit eating there. Quality of the food has gone pretty far downhill pretty fast and nothing was served hot at any time, buffet or dining room. No real butter or cream to be found anywhere and my tiramisu martini was curdled. Ew. The shows were wonderful with high energy.... And disembarking from Mobile was a dream come true. We were off the ship and on the road to DFW by 8:00 AM, easy peasy. Hmm, looks like I need to write a review! There were good points and bad points, as there are with most things.

 

Anyhow - yeah. The ship quit moving at one point then limped along the rest of the trip. No big deal for us - expectations were low due to having cruised in January before and knew what we were in for weather-wise and having booked last minute instead of going to Vegas or something. But I felt sorry for those that did this as their big vacation or as their honeymoon. Communication was appallingly bad.

[RN2BDFW]

I should note - Carnival also refunded all excursions that were unable to be done due to the change the mechanical problems brought about, as long as those excursions were booked with Carnival. Those who booked outside of the cruise line were SOL. Something to consider when booking excursions.

[mavis2222]

Ships don't use the main propulsion units to dock, They have special small units which move them side to side. They should have been able to move front and back with even what they had. I would guess they didn't stop just in case more issues came up.

 

 

They still use the main propulsion to dock along with the bow thrusters. The rear props turn 360 deg to maneuver the rear of ship while the bow thrusters control the front.

[Vanessa L]

OK, I have not seen this question asked, and I am sure I am not the only one wondering so here goes....to the OP and others, IF Carnival had been forthcoming the very second they knew there was a problem and told you that you were dead in the water, would miss Calica, etc., would it have made one iota of difference???? You would have STILL been dead in the water and missed Calica. I guess I just don't understand what difference it made if you knew sooner rather than later, the outcome would have been the same. Can you explain?

[firefly333]

OK, I have not seen this question asked, and I am sure I am not the only one wondering so here goes....to the OP and others, IF Carnival had been forthcoming the very second they knew there was a problem and told you that you were dead in the water, would miss Calica, etc., would it have made one iota of difference???? You would have STILL been dead in the water and missed Calica. I guess I just don't understand what difference it made if you knew sooner rather than later, the outcome would have been the same. Can you explain?

 

Maybe Carnival needs to put in bigger letters the part about no port being guaranteed, because we still have people who say, well I went on this cruise for the ports, so therefore, getting more money back than promised, they are still saying $72 per person PLUS the open bar was a slap in the face.

 

I get it they are upset with the communication .. but other than a do over where Carnival acted better, what is it they want? .. Im guessing more $$? And probably no amount of money would make some people happy other than a full refund and money off a future cruise which isnt going to happen for missing one port.

[Vanessa L]

Maybe Carnival needs to put in bigger letters the part about no port being guaranteed, because we still have people who say, well I went on this cruise for the ports, so therefore, getting more money back than promised, they are still saying $72 per person PLUS the open bar was a slap in the face.

 

I get it they are upset with the communication .. but other than a do over where Carnival acted better, what is it they want? .. Im guessing more $$? And probably no amount of money would make some people happy other than a full refund and money off a future cruise which isnt going to happen for missing one port.

 

I hear ya, Fire. I'm waiting to hear from the OP and anyone else who was on this cruise what difference it would have made if they knew sooner rather than later. I guess I am just confused as all get out as to what difference it would have made?????? We missed Calica also in Nov 2009 because of 10 foot swells and only got the port charges back, I'm think like $22 or something. If OP or anyone else can answer this question, I'd love to hear your response.

[PaulMedik]

How can the communication of unknown or as yet undetermined facts be presented in a positive manner? People hate the answer; 'I don't know,' but when that's the only factual answer then it's the only answer that should be offered. Details sometimes help; 'We broke something.' Or 'something isn't working right and we're trying to fix it,' may soothe some angst, but it won't make everyone happy.

 

On a daily basis at work (ER) people ask me; 'how long is the wait?' 'I'm sorry, I do not know,' is the only factual answer I can offer. I usually add that 'we'll get you in as fast as we can,' and sometimes I list how many are ahead of them or how many people are about to be discharged or admitted, but even then people want me to state an exact time for them and I can not and will not do so. There's no official stance on how to answer these questions other than to do so in a polite and professional manner. Polite and professional is often tough when what I really feel has to be totally hidden; many people should not be there to begin with since their visit is routine or they are simply seeking pain meds. The comparison to missed stops on cruise ships is that sometimes they just don't know what broke, how long it will take to fix it, and whether or not the repairs will last. In such cases, the only answer that is truthful is that they don't know.

 

When staff doesn't show up or isn't scheduled to be there and we can not get people in our ER, I do not hold back when someone asks why they are still waiting. I tell them we do not have enough staff. For some reason, that answer seems to be accepted better than 'I don't know.' Both answers are truthful, but one offers information and one is too vague. The problem with missed ports on cruise ships is that the same answer is offered nearly all the time; 'we don't know.' Even when it's apparent that they do know such as when they are penny pinching or experimenting with skipping ports to save fuel, they still fall back on the 'we didn't know' or 'something happened,' jargon. All that anyone wants is the truth and anything perceived to be less than the truth is unacceptable.

 

When I recall all the reasons why I've had to watch people wait for ER care, I am astounded by the multitude of actual scenarios that cause delays. When I think of the myriad of possible scenarios that could cause a cruise ship to be delayed just from within the ship, crew, and passengers I am perplexed as to how a standard boiler plate answer could be conceived to placate guest questions. When I think of the likely additional delay scenarios that can be thrown in from home office cruise line management, then I just scratch my head and wonder if they could get away with announcing that whatever problem is ongoing is going to remain an issue for the future because some bean counter opted to save a buck instead of doing the right thing. How do you say; 'we don't have the staff,' when the real answer is 'they don't want to fix it right now?' My answer can jeopardize my job, but my answer also may save a life so I stick by my answer. If I were answering from the middle of the ocean on a pleasure cruise, I may answer however home office management insists upon since lives are not at stake, but I would also begin applying elsewhere and move on.

 

 

To the OP,

 

Sorry for your missed ports of call and for your poor weather experience, but in this case I'm not sure anyone had an answer that would sound good and be truthful. If the ship malfunctions, they don't always know when it will be fixed. Sometimes fixing ships requires CANCELLING cruises for three or four weeks and those people would be out a whole lot more than you were in terms of vacation experience.

 

I do have one question; What answer would you have accepted if the actual answer was; 'We don't know, but we're trying to figure it out?'

[Cruzman]

How can the communication of unknown or as yet undetermined facts be presented in a positive manner? People hate the answer; 'I don't know,' but when that's the only factual answer then it's the only answer that should be offered. Details sometimes help; 'We broke something.' Or 'something isn't working right and we're trying to fix it,' may soothe some angst, but it won't make everyone happy.

 

On a daily basis at work (ER) people ask me; 'how long is the wait?' 'I'm sorry, I do not know,' is the only factual answer I can offer. I usually add that 'we'll get you in as fast as we can,' and sometimes I list how many are ahead of them or how many people are about to be discharged or admitted, but even then people want me to state an exact time for them and I can not and will not do so. There's no official stance on how to answer these questions other than to do so in a polite and professional manner. Polite and professional is often tough when what I really feel has to be totally hidden; many people should not be there to begin with since their visit is routine or they are simply seeking pain meds. The comparison to missed stops on cruise ships is that sometimes they just don't know what broke, how long it will take to fix it, and whether or not the repairs will last. In such cases, the only answer that is truthful is that they don't know.

 

When staff doesn't show up or isn't scheduled to be there and we can not get people in our ER, I do not hold back when someone asks why they are still waiting. I tell them we do not have enough staff. For some reason, that answer seems to be accepted better than 'I don't know.' Both answers are truthful, but one offers information and one is too vague. The problem with missed ports on cruise ships is that the same answer is offered nearly all the time; 'we don't know.' Even when it's apparent that they do know such as when they are penny pinching or experimenting with skipping ports to save fuel, they still fall back on the 'we didn't know' or 'something happened,' jargon. All that anyone wants is the truth and anything perceived to be less than the truth is unacceptable.

 

When I recall all the reasons why I've had to watch people wait for ER care, I am astounded by the multitude of actual scenarios that cause delays. When I think of the myriad of possible scenarios that could cause a cruise ship to be delayed just from within the ship, crew, and passengers I am perplexed as to how a standard boiler plate answer could be conceived to placate guest questions. When I think of the likely additional delay scenarios that can be thrown in from home office cruise line management, then I just scratch my head and wonder if they could get away with announcing that whatever problem is ongoing is going to remain an issue for the future because some bean counter opted to save a buck instead of doing the right thing. How do you say; 'we don't have the staff,' when the real answer is 'they don't want to fix it right now?' My answer can jeopardize my job, but my answer also may save a life so I stick by my answer. If I were answering from the middle of the ocean on a pleasure cruise, I may answer however home office management insists upon since lives are not at stake, but I would also begin applying elsewhere and move on.

 

 

To the OP,

 

Sorry for your missed ports of call and for your poor weather experience, but in this case I'm not sure anyone had an answer that would sound good and be truthful. If the ship malfunctions, they don't always know when it will be fixed. Sometimes fixing ships requires CANCELLING cruises for three or four weeks and those people would be out a whole lot more than you were in terms of vacation experience.

 

I do have one question; What answer would you have accepted if the actual answer was; 'We don't know, but we're trying to figure it out?'

 

Paul, I think your post makes too much sense to be accepted by someone who is intent on playing the "blame game". Life is somewhat like a poker game. Each day we are dealt a hand that we can either play, or we can fold. There are those however, that will insist on blaming the dealer when their hand is not what they had wished. Then there are those of us who are simply happy to be in the game. Disappointments are a part of life, as was the case on this particular cruise. As a passenger, we can only control how we handle such a situation. It's all about attitude!

[travler27]

On another forum where I regularly participate we have an emoticon of a guy beating a dead horse.

 

Wish there was one here.

[brfan]

When we missed two ports last time on Conquest and the waves were going up and crashing down .. it obviously affected newbys attitude toward things.

 

quiet money or whatever .. Carnival, Id like some quiet hush money. please.

 

Carnival only owed them the taxes on the port charges ... and gave them open bar and extra $50.

 

A couple of questions I've often wondered about is who gets to keep the actual port fees? Is it the cruiseline that just pockets the money or were they already paid to the port? When does the cruiseline pay the port fees, when they arrive, monthly, quarterly, yearly? If they are already paid, does the cruiseline get refunded by the port or does the port keep this money because they are not refundable? I'm just curious why only the taxes are refunded and not the entire port charge.

[RN2BDFW]

OK, I have not seen this question asked, and I am sure I am not the only one wondering so here goes....to the OP and others, IF Carnival had been forthcoming the very second they knew there was a problem and told you that you were dead in the water, would miss Calica, etc., would it have made one iota of difference???? You would have STILL been dead in the water and missed Calica. I guess I just don't understand what difference it made if you knew sooner rather than later, the outcome would have been the same. Can you explain?

 

Well, I think for me the big benefit of knowing truthful information in an upfront fashion does a lot to dispel the rumor mill, which, believe me, was in overdrive by breakfast the day we were supposed to be going to Cozumel. Everything from "We are the next Splendor, we have NO propulsion system!" to "They knew it was like this when we left Mobile and they left anyway just to trap us on board and get our money!". People on the whole tend to go into freak-out mode when no other option is available to them for logic and reason.

 

The other benefit to honest and prompt information is building a sense of trust. There absolutely were people worried that we were now stranded in the Gulf and, like Splendor, were going to wind up being airlifted rationed supplies of Spam or something. Those who were cruising with babies were worrying about having enough diapers. Those who were elderly were fretting about their medications. Those who need to be back at work on Monday (today) were sweating it thinking we might not make it back in time. Etc etc etc. Building a sense of trust in a situation where crisis looms, either in reality or in potential, lets people feel they are going to be well cared for. It is just good business all the way around, good PR management and, frankly, has the potential to be good crowd control. Of course it would not have made a difference in terms of getting to Calica or not. But it would have made a difference in the overall sense of panic that was beginning to build, especially in the first time cruisers, while we sat there not moving....a sense that was all together not necessary and was entirely preventable.

[LHP]

Maybe Carnival needs to put in bigger letters the part about no port being guaranteed, because we still have people who say, well I went on this cruise for the ports, so therefore, getting more money back than promised, they are still saying $72 per person PLUS the open bar was a slap in the face.

 

I get it they are upset with the communication .. but other than a do over where Carnival acted better, what is it they want? .. Im guessing more $$? And probably no amount of money would make some people happy other than a full refund and money off a future cruise which isnt going to happen for missing one port.

 

I truly think this is the key. Not just Carnival PVPs, but all Travel Agents.

 

We have so many new cruisers (some who have never traveled much) that it is only fair to them to fully explain to them what is in the contract they are signing.

 

To be perfectly honest, I think most newbies think of the cruise ship as a bus.

 

And to education new cruisers at the very beginning when they are booking their cruise that this is not the case, would do both the cruiser and the cruise lines a great service.

 

Personally, I think this piece of information should be as big as the pictures of the ports in the advertising.