Celebrity dumps disabled man on island.

[CaroleLee]

Thanks for the insight. ;) Sounds like something you take with a grain of salt on a regular basis.

 

I will admit that the second article by Mr. Wolffe is slightly better written and less biased. Still poor and unprofessional by "real" journalist standards, IMO, but better.

 

Just read the updated story & reader comments. The reader comments are far from supportive of this man. It seems his actiivist activities are backfiring

Carole

[kitkat9438]

We have always been sent the special needs form, either by Celebrity if we booked direct or by our travel agent. Until the wheelchair accessible cabins are released to the general inventory, those are controlled by the special needs dept/access group and cannot be booked until released. Our travel agents (and we have used several), have always been advised of the necessity of our filling out the special needs form by the Celebrity staff person who releases the cabin. I know this because our travel agents have told us this and sent us the form. But we have never sailed on a chartered cruise and I don't know what the procedures would have been in the situation involving this man. (We have also never booked an accessible cabin that was released to the general inventory. Those are usually snapped up quickly after release. So I don't know what the procedure is in that case either).

 

I am surprised about the report of the man's claim that toilet height was an issue. While our disabled family member used the toilet and had no difficulty with the height, a toilet seat riser should be available on the ship upon request. If the special needs form is filled out, there is a category to request certain medical equipment and supplies such as this and the medical equipment/supplies requested is usually in your cabin upon arrival. But our experience is that a toilet seat riser and other similar equipment/supplies is available on the ship even without advance request. So I don't understand why he would have an issue with the toilet height unless he just didn't request a toilet seat riser or unless he requested one and it was not available. Dan, perhaps that is a question you can ask in your follow up article.

 

There were rails around the toilet as shown in the photograph in this thread. In addition, although you cannot see the inside of the shower from the photograph, there are rails in the shower, a pull down shower chair, and a hand-held shower.

 

Eurobikefan, while the US Access Board has not finalized architectural ADA guidelines for passenger vessels, there is a general requirement for access and also some barrier removal (unless exempted due to being cost prohibitive) in the ADA. But access can often be achieved by use of medical equipment such as toilet seat risers or by other physical adjustments or aids such as ramps--it doesn't necessarily have to be architectural.

 

I just find it interesting that nothing was mentioned before about the toliet seat not being high enough, and supposedly he had no problems getting into and out of the bathroom or falling off the toliet until the third day according to the article. Now suddenly on the 3rd day, it is not high enough for him, the "workers" would not come to his aid (how many workers could possibly aid him in his cabin anyway?) and he had to rely on strangers for help.

 

He admits to signing the contract in the article, yet he thinks that he "paid extra" for personal assistance "before he bought the ticket" (not after his wife could not accompany him) by having a butler and that Celebrity knew because they saw him in a wheelchair that he would need extra assistance.

 

The stories from the beginning have been filled with holes and keep changing.

 

Yes, he should have read the contract, and yes he should have filled out the special needs form. These contracts apply to everyone who cruise, and if you break the rules you are subject to being let off the ship. It has happened before and will happen again.

 

I think that once Celebrity and the Tour operator discovered that he was not self-sufficient and couldn't take care of himself and there was a very real possibility of his hurting himself via the fact that he admittedly "slipped and fell off the toliet", they weren't left with too many options. If they had not tried to do everything possible to remedy the situation, by trying to shuffle people around to make room for a nurse and having a nurse flown in to assist him, then it would be another story altogether, but still understable because of the liability issues.

[CaroleLee]

I just find it interesting that nothing was mentioned before about the toliet seat not being high enough, and supposedly he had no problems getting into and out of the bathroom or falling off the toliet until the third day according to the article. Now suddenly on the 3rd day, it is not high enough for him, the "workers" would not come to his aid (how many workers could possibly aid him in his cabin anyway?) and he had to rely on strangers for help.

 

He admits to signing the contract in the article, yet he thinks that he "paid extra" for personal assistance "before he bought the ticket" (not after his wife could not accompany him) by having a butler and that Celebrity knew because they saw him in a wheelchair that he would need extra assistance.

 

The stories from the beginning have been filled with holes and keep changing.

 

Yes, he should have read the contract, and yes he should have filled out the special needs form. These contracts apply to everyone who cruise, and if you break the rules you are subject to being let off the ship. It has happened before and will happen again.

 

I think that once Celebrity and the Tour operator discovered that he was not self-sufficient and couldn't take care of himself and there was a very real possibility of his hurting himself via the fact that he admittedly "slipped and fell off the toliet", they weren't left with too many options. If they had not tried to do everything possible to remedy the situation, by trying to shuffle people around to make room for a nurse and having a nurse flown in to assist him, then it would be another story altogether, but still understable because of the liability issues.

 

So true. The story changes faster than the commnets on this board. What I find very interesting is that no one who was actually on the cruise has posted on CC or in The Oakland Press etc. Again, he claimed to be a seasoned world traveler but he did not act like it.

Carole

[Dan Askin]

Thanks Dan.

 

One comment I'd like to make about the toliet issue that we are just now hearing about from the new article. It clearly states on Celebrity's website that a Guest Special Needs Form must be completed and faxed 30 days prior to sailing when an accessible room is requested. It also states that a request must be made 30 days prior to sailing if you need a raised toliet seat and other special needs. Here's the link to the form:

 

http://media.celebritycruises.com/celebrity/content/en_US/pdf/CEL_Special_Needs_Form_November_2010.pdf

 

I don't know if this form is really required as stated, since I've never had to fill out one. We do know that we all have to acknowledge the cruise contract where you agree to all the terms, with the online checkin procedures, including the cancellation of your cruise if you don't comply.

 

Looking forward to hearing more details.

 

I have asked all parties involved about the special needs form, and included the responses in the first piece. A copy of said is posted on the Celebrity site. Quoting from our story, here were the responses:

 

"Celebrity's policy requires passengers with special needs to be self-sufficient and, if need be, to travel with a companion to provide assistance with eating, dressing, toileting or lifting, as cruise line personnel are not required to perform these tasks. Additionally, the cruise line requires all passengers booking an accessible cabin to complete a special-needs-guest form. Based on responses from Celebrity and Tiemann, it is unclear if he filled out such a form. Tiemann noted, however, that Keskeny and his wife did fill out a standard passenger information form, and both were sent tickets. Again, at the last minute, Nancy decided not to make the trip."

 

Keskeny told us he doesn't remember filling out such a form.

 

Dan

[sarahc78]

I just find it interesting that nothing was mentioned before about the toliet seat not being high enough, and supposedly he had no problems getting into and out of the bathroom or falling off the toliet until the third day according to the article. Now suddenly on the 3rd day, it is not high enough for him, the "workers" would not come to his aid (how many workers could possibly aid him in his cabin anyway?) and he had to rely on strangers for help.

 

He admits to signing the contract in the article, yet he thinks that he "paid extra" for personal assistance "before he bought the ticket" (not after his wife could not accompany him) by having a butler and that Celebrity knew because they saw him in a wheelchair that he would need extra assistance.

 

The stories from the beginning have been filled with holes and keep changing.

 

Yes, he should have read the contract, and yes he should have filled out the special needs form. These contracts apply to everyone who cruise, and if you break the rules you are subject to being let off the ship. It has happened before and will happen again.

 

I think that once Celebrity and the Tour operator discovered that he was not self-sufficient and couldn't take care of himself and there was a very real possibility of his hurting himself via the fact that he admittedly "slipped and fell off the toliet", they weren't left with too many options. If they had not tried to do everything possible to remedy the situation, by trying to shuffle people around to make room for a nurse and having a nurse flown in to assist him, then it would be another story altogether, but still understable because of the liability issues.

Isnt there an emergency button or pull switch in the handicapped rooms. Maybe he pulled the switch and several staff came. My confusion comes from him having help from other guests. How did they get there? Were they there to begin w/ and he fell asked for his butler then after the butler and other staff refusing did the other guest help? But if they were there from the get go and were his friends why wouldnt they have helped him from the get go.

 

See very confusing lol

[woodofpine]

You are attempting to make it sound like the majority of posters on this thread have implied a "worship-like" following of Celebrity...

 

the "gist" of the majority of posts seem to say that, based on the information that we have available, Mr. Keskeny's complaints seem much more unreasonable than Celebrity's responses.

 

I don't see the "cheerleading" going on that you imply.

 

OK you won me over... Having reviewed the thread more thoroughly now, I STRONGLY suspect this guy contracted multiple sclerosis so he could shake down cruiselines! It's obvious!

 

How dare he object to being put ashore (in a third world setting) because he expected or needed more assistance! The ungrateful welp!

 

Obviously, this guy was a danger to the ship and passengers!

[PS90]

OK you won me over... Having reviewed the thread more thoroughly now, I STRONGLY suspect this guy contracted multiple sclerosis so he could shake down cruiselines! It's obvious!

 

How dare he object to being put ashore (in a third world setting) because he expected or needed more assistance! The ungrateful welp!

 

Obviously, this guy was a danger to the ship and passengers!

 

Ummmm...this response has absolutely nothing to do with my rebuttal to your post #296. You were accusing other posters of unreasonably defending Celebrity, and I disagreed. Now, you are just making exaggerated excuses for the guy.

[richsea]

:confused:

OK you won me over... Having reviewed the thread more thoroughly now, I STRONGLY suspect this guy contracted multiple sclerosis so he could shake down cruiselines! It's obvious!

 

How dare he object to being put ashore (in a third world setting) because he expected or needed more assistance! The ungrateful welp!

 

Obviously, this guy was a danger to the ship and passengers!

 

Have you actually read this thread?:confused:

[kitkat9438]

OK you won me over... Having reviewed the thread more thoroughly now, I STRONGLY suspect this guy contracted multiple sclerosis so he could shake down cruiselines! It's obvious!

 

How dare he object to being put ashore (in a third world setting) because he expected or needed more assistance! The ungrateful welp!

 

Obviously, this guy was a danger to the ship and passengers!

 

You are really too funny. This man was offered a CHOICE because he could not take care of himself. Pay for a nurse or pay for a trip home. It seems like a no brainer to me. He had options, he did not HAVE to get off the ship unless he refused to get the help he NEEDED just to function.

 

He was a danger to HIMSELF. What would you have Celebrity do, let him fall in his cabin and lie there for days injured or worse? The possibilities are endless.

 

Again, what would you have Celebrity do? Pick up the tab for the nurse this guy needed?

 

Also if he "traveled the world" by himself, I'm sure he visited some of these places on his own.

 

This is not his first lawsuit.

[kitkat9438]

Ummmm...this response has absolutely nothing to do with my rebuttal to your post #296. You were accusing other posters of unreasonably defending Celebrity, and I disagreed. Now, you are just making exaggerated excuses for the guy.

 

Something smells fishy too me. Maybe he's another client and associate of the passenger and his attorney????

[TravelerThom]

Nitpicky point-- Royal Caribbean International (the cruise line) and Celebrity Cruises are both owned by Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines. But your point that it happened on Celebrity Century is valid. I didn't read the article, but it probably makes reference to RCCL, which would include Celebrity.

...There are other inaccuracies, such as reference to some company called Royal Carribean Cruises, Ltd., apparently an effort to correct the reference to Royal Caribbean International as the corporate entity involved...

The name of the corporate parent [as given in their 2010 Annual Report; copy available at http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9ODkzMzR8Q2hpbGRJRD0tMXxUeXBlPTM=&t=1] is

Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd.

Other than sticking in a comma between "Cruises" and "Ltd." they did get that one right.

 

Thom

[PartyAllDaTyme]

The name of the corporate parent [as given in their 2010 Annual Report; copy available at http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9ODkzMzR8Q2hpbGRJRD0tMXxUeXBlPTM=&t=1] is

Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd.

Other than sticking in a comma between "Cruises" and "Ltd." they did get that one right.

 

Thom

 

Thanks-- I did not have access to that and have never heard it referred to as such. I stand corrected.

[woodofpine]

He was a danger to HIMSELF. What would you have Celebrity do, let him fall in his cabin and lie there for days injured or worse?

 

That works... Have the crew vacuum around him! Just tell them to be careful to keep the noozle away from the more tender appendages!

 

The solution? Let his blind attorney wheel him from an open pier don't 'ya think? (two birds, one chair - a big kerplunk!)

 

You're right, the possibilities are endless so let's hear a few.

 

This is not his first lawsuit.

 

To quote Voltaire,

"I was never ruined but twice... Once when I lost a lawsuit, and once when I won one!"

 

OK all you "Celebritys" - just explain to me why they have aft disabled cabins on the M class, then the crew leave their storage carts in the rear aisle there so you can't move! Huh? Huh? Explain that away elite pax smarty-pants!;)

[fungo]

How dare he object to being put ashore (in a third world setting)

 

Guadeloupe is not a 3rd world setting. It is a provence of France and a member of the EU with a strong economy and a proud, vibrant culture.

 

It also has an airport, FYI.

[sasset]

That works... Have the crew vacuum around him! Just tell them to be careful to keep the noozle away from the more tender appendages!

 

The solution? Let his blind attorney wheel him from an open pier don't 'ya think? (two birds, one chair - a big kerplunk!)

 

You're right, the possibilities are endless so let's hear a few.

 

This is not his first lawsuit.

 

To quote Voltaire,

"I was never ruined but twice... Once when I lost a lawsuit, and once when I won one!"

 

OK all you "Celebritys" - just explain to me why they have aft disabled cabins on the M class, then the crew leave their storage carts in the rear aisle there so you can't move! Huh? Huh? Explain that away elite pax smarty-pants!;)

 

This is a little off topic but the carts in the aisle reminded me.

 

Why do so many who book accessible cabins park their sccoter in the corridors? The door is wide enough to get them in the room and there is some extra space in the room for the scooter.

[woodofpine]

Guadeloupe is not a 3rd world setting. It is a provence of France and a member of the EU with a strong economy and a proud, vibrant culture.

 

It also has an airport, FYI.

 

OH man! Guadeloupe is just another arondissement of Gay Paris! Heck - Paris isn't even that easy to negotiate in a wheelchair (ditto a lot of cobbled and curbed 'old Europe') There are a LOT of former colonies with air strips! Take me the Cote D'Ivoire! (I'll bet Abidjan's airport is bigger than Guadeloupe's!)

[Tenn4ever]

post deleted - double post

[Tenn4ever]

This is a little off topic but the carts in the aisle reminded me.

 

Why do so many who book accessible cabins park their sccoter in the corridors? The door is wide enough to get them in the room and there is some extra space in the room for the scooter.

 

It's called a sense of entitlement. I have worked in disability hearings and have had two members of my family who have been deemed disabled. There is generally a sense of entitlement, at least, with one of my family members.

[woodofpine]

This is a little off topic but the carts in the aisle reminded me.

 

Why do so many who book accessible cabins park their sccoter in the corridors? The door is wide enough to get them in the room and there is some extra space in the room for the scooter.

 

My theory is that its the philanderers trying to assure a quick get-a-way!;)

 

Personally, I'm clueless... never travelled with passenger using a scooter (a hoyer lift I can let you about, not a scooter) but it may be that those scooters aren't so easy to make sharp turns with (especially if motor skills are sub-par). I've only seen one parked outside a room regularly once though. I'll bet that was a philanderer... After all, as a working Floridian I can attest that the general public 'assumes' that when you get old and infirm you magically morph into some honestly, saintly, soul... Nah! All those mean, dishonest, manipulative psyche-thieves of adulthood get old and decrepit and otherwise remain just like before...

 

Happy Cruising!

[fungo]

Ok, time to stop feeling the troll.

[98Charlie]

Ok, time to stop feeling the troll.

 

You just made my day. I'm assuming that was a typo? lmao:D

 

Dianne

[woodofpine]

You just made my day. I'm assuming that was a typo? lmao:D

 

Dianne

 

No no... this was a nudist cruise remember! You know - disagree with a disposition - call'em a troll. Case closed - so superior... And in this case, just too appropriate! Diversity bad! Uniformity good! Hand me a banana - 'feel' the troll!:rolleyes:

[Bruton Branch]

The"TROLL" is out there.....

 

Would like to know all the truthful facts before making my own decision. Wonder what the real story is.........

 

We have assisted parents and other X passengers in getting there wheelchair and or electric scooter over the door threshold as there is a drop of approx 1-2 inches going into the cabin...do not know about the doorways into HC cabins.

 

 

 

Bruton Branch

[sasset]

Please. No hard feelings.

[rebeccalouiseagain]

I never got the sense that this guy had an agenda. In fact, if that were the case he wouldn't have gotten on a nude cruise in the first place. If he was just trying to shake down Celebrity he would have looked more sympathetic as a mainstream passenger.

 

This guy thought he could do it. He probably did think that a butler was a paid servant. Does he deserve his money back, no. It was an unfortunate decision on his part to attempt the cruise in his weakened condition. His lawyer heard about it and now he is trying to get him his money back. So that's how I see it.