Celebrity dumps disabled man on island.

[Crewzer33]

Well, his lawyer was on the local news tonight. And he's filing a Complaint in court and has his expert witness on ship disability accessibility all lined up, since he is claiming that the accommodation did not meet the disability act. Also he said that his client couldn't get up from falling off the toilet and that was the ONLY incident of him needing help and Royal Caribbean (Celebrity) kicked him off the ship because of it.

[YOW]

Well, his lawyer was on the local news tonight...

 

What station? Perhaps we can find a video on their site.

[fungo]

You just made my day. I'm assuming that was a typo? lmao:D

 

Dianne

 

No, that was the typo of the century :p

 

Luckily the intended message seems to have persevered, in spite of my fat fingers.

[Crewzer33]

It was on the local abc station (wxyz.com), but they haven't put it on their website at this time.

[Crewzer33]

Here is a link to another local paper's story (and brutal reader comments) on it:

 

http://theoaklandpress.com/articles/2011/04/13/news/local_news/doc4da618148ad79760097044.txt?viewmode=fullstory

[sasset]

Here's a link to a brief bio on him.

 

 

http://www.msif.org/en/life_with_ms/get_involved/people_who_got_involved/jimkeskeny.html

[bighairtexan]

OK I am probably the most politically incorrect human on the face of the earth and may burn in Hades....but.... while having dinner out, I was telling my boyfriend about this situation. His response about the pending law suit (and at the time he didn't realize what he was saying) was "It doesn't sound as if he has a leg to stand on."

We both stopped eating, looked at each other, paused, and started laughing hysterically.

 

I know, my bad. But it's a true story.

[phoenix_dream]

There is a huge difference between nursing home level care, and assisted living level care. It seems he required the former in some respects, and no cruise ship, Celebrity or otherwise, should be expected to provide it. As a seasoned traveler, he should have done proper research to determine if he was able to handle the cruise alone. These statements just seem obvious to me.

 

All that said, I think insisting he disembark is too extreme a reaction. By the time the issues presented themselves the ship had sailed, figuratively and literally. IMHO Celebrity should have done what they needed to, to make it work. No, it is not their responsibility, but they let him board and to kick him off mid-cruise I think is ridiculous (and I am a BIG Celebrity fan).

[rebeccalouiseagain]

I thought about the fact that his wife was too ill to travel and that he went anyway without her. Two things, he should have had cruise insurance in the first place given his condition and his wife should have also.

 

So the fact is, he left his sick wife home so that he could go on a nude cruise. I don't think this speaks well of him. Not a legal matter but just something that bothers me. Either she found out at the last minute the nature of the cruise and bowed out or he is louse for leaving her home sick. If my husband was sick, I wouldn't even think of going on a cruise without him.

[alexkrn46]

I thought about the fact that his wife was too ill to travel and that he went anyway without her. Two things, he should have had cruise insurance in the first place given his condition and his wife should have also.

 

So the fact is, he left his sick wife home so that he could go on a nude cruise. I don't think this speaks well of him. Not a legal matter but just something that bothers me. Either she found out at the last minute the nature of the cruise and bowed out or he is louse for leaving her home sick. If my husband was sick, I wouldn't even think of going on a cruise without him.

 

I think you have made an excellent point, to the character of this individual.

[Bridge Maven]

I think you have made an excellent point, to the character of this individual.

 

I had the exact same reaction when I read that post.

[NLH Arizona]

There is a huge difference between nursing home level care, and assisted living level care. It seems he required the former in some respects, and no cruise ship, Celebrity or otherwise, should be expected to provide it. As a seasoned traveler, he should have done proper research to determine if he was able to handle the cruise alone. These statements just seem obvious to me.

 

All that said, I think insisting he disembark is too extreme a reaction. By the time the issues presented themselves the ship had sailed, figuratively and literally. IMHO Celebrity should have done what they needed to, to make it work. No, it is not their responsibility, but they let him board and to kick him off mid-cruise I think is ridiculous (and I am a BIG Celebrity fan).

 

What would you have had Celebrity do?

 

They could have assigned two crew members to him to help him in and out of bed, etc., but then they would have opened themselves up to a lawsuit if the gentleman was hurt because non licensed caregivers were lifting him.

 

Or they could have had the ship's doctor and nurse at his beck and call and, again, they would open themselves up to a lawsuit if they were helping him with his everyday needs and a passenger had a real emergency and they couldn't get their immediately.

[bighairtexan]

If I were so ill that I couldn't take a cruise and my DBF went w/o me.... well... then he'd be my EX DBF.

[GranysT]

If I were so ill that I couldn't take a cruise and my DBF went w/o me.... well... then he'd be my EX DBF.

 

 

AMEN Sister. My sentiments exactly. :D:

[tuggers]

Commenting on a post a couple of pages ago refering to MS as a 'waxing and waning' type of disease. The truth is, that type of MS is probably the most common. We see people like Montel who have it and do fine. The more serious form is called Primary Progressive and there are no 'good' days. I know because I have a friend with this type of MS. She is 50 and is starting her 4th year since diagnosis. She is in a wheelchair most of the time and could not go on a trip alone.

This gentleman knows what he has and what he can do. It was his poor judgement that made him think he could do this trip without an attendant.

As for the nude cruise remarks. Please grow up. This may not be for everyone but it is now an accepted entity called 'nude recreation'. There are many parks nationwide and a large national organization based in Kissimmie Florida. (and yes, they do all carry towels to sit on!) GEEEEZZZZZZZZZ!:rolleyes:

[e150club]

I've been reading this thread for the last few days. Our family has been on many cruises with my Mom and Dad. After she passed he still took a few more cruises with us. His legs and knees were shot. He was stubborn and walked with a walker. He thought he was independant but realy wasn't. My dad bought a scooter for our 2008 cruise. It was great for him and us, But we never left him alone. Dad passed two years ago[ RIP Dad].....NOW How this man thought he could go-it alone makes me think like my dad would. I'll be OK . "No dad you need someone to help you Just in case you fall down".

[cruisecrasy]

I've been reading this thread for the last few days. Our family has been on many cruises with my Mom and Dad. After she passed he still took a few more cruises with us. His legs and knees were shot. He was stubborn and walked with a walker. He thought he was independant but realy wasn't. My dad bought a scooter for our 2008 cruise. It was great for him and us, But we never left him alone. Dad passed two years ago[ RIP Dad].....NOW How this man thought he could go-it alone makes me think like my dad would. I'll be OK . "No dad you need someone to help you Just in case you fall down".

 

Lots of the disabled are very independent & that is why I wonder why his wife wld agree he shld go alone?? That said, he was offered an opportunity to hire an assistant and he refused so he was encouraged to leave the ship. Fair enough IMO anyway..

 

Besides, whether he thought he cld do it alone or not he cldn't and the cruiseline isn't responsible for him..he is..so he had to pay to learn that lesson..

Therein lies the problem and its very common & simple - he, like a lot of others who make mistakes, doesn't want to pay!!

 

Have great cruisin'! :)

[CanWeGoYet?]

Lots of the disabled are very independent & that is why I wonder why his wife wld agree he shld go alone??

 

Maybe she didn't agree, but was too sick to go. Some people set a course and nothing can deter them.

[Crewzer33]

Here is the link to the cruiser's lawyer's interview (the lawyer is blind):

 

http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/oakland_county/disabled-man-gets-kicked-off-a-nude-cruise-in-guadalupe-just-4-days-into-the-10-day-trip

[PartyAllDaTyme]

Hi everyone,

 

Just a heads up that we're working on a follow-up -- starring Mr. Keskeny, Richard Bernstein, Celebrity Cruises, Bare Necessities -- for this evening. Hopefully, we'll be able to answer more questions than we raise.

 

Dan Askin

 

Dan, what's the status? Someone not available, maybe?

[kitkat9438]

Thanks for posting the link to the story. It's interesting to note that he admits that he has cruised before. I was wondering about that. It is safe to assume that he was disabled at the time of previous cruises, right? So he should know the level of service that he could expect from members of a crew on a cruiseship and that they are not, in fact, caregivers who he could pay to be his personal assistants. He also states that the only reason Celebrity "kicked him off" is because of him falling off the toliet which was not raised. What about his need for help getting in and out of the bathroom, getting in and out of his chair, and their refusal to help him with that? The bottom line is he needed help and was not self sufficient.

 

I like the comment made above, if you go to a restaurant should the waitress be responsible for lifting you out of your chair and putting you in a booth? After all, she knew when she saw you coming that you were disabled and you would need extra help. Please. Her responsibility would be to find a table where you could move a chair out of the way to accomodate the wheelchair.

 

He may claim he doesn't remember filling out the form for his accessible cabin, maybe his wife filled it out. Surely being a seasoned travel, he still knows the rules and I would know enough to ask for something special I might need to assist me in traveling, whether it's a raised toliet seat or whatever. Again, the issue of the toliet seat not being raised was never mentioned in the first article and how did he make it the first few days with the toliet he had in his cabin and in the public restrooms without problems?

 

We all fill out those forms at the pier certifying we are not sick so that we don't expose other passengers. If we are or have been sick, Celebrity has every right to cancel our cruise passage, without recourse to us because we signed a contract to that extent. This man cannot expect anything less.

 

This was all about choices. First his choice to go alone, instead of bringing someone with him to assist him, when the extra passage was already paid; Second, chosing not to accept the remedy that Celebrity and the Cruise Tour Agency had arranged for him by getting him a nurse. But everyone is right on that aspect, he wouldn't have a lawsuit if he had accepted a nurse, would he?

 

If I get sick on the cruiseship and they tell me I have to stay in my cabin so I don't expose others, am I to sue the cruiseline for ruining my cruise? Rules are the rules and you have to abide by them whether you like them or not.

 

Once Celebrity became aware of the situation they had a duty and an obligation to make sure that this man was safe and not in danger, whether that meant he got the help he needed at his own expense or ended his cruise and went home. Couldn't get much simpler than that. He had the choice to stay on that ship and finish his cruise and he refused to take it.

[phoenix_dream]

What would you have had Celebrity do?

 

They could have assigned two crew members to him to help him in and out of bed, etc., but then they would have opened themselves up to a lawsuit if the gentleman was hurt because non licensed caregivers were lifting him.

 

Or they could have had the ship's doctor and nurse at his beck and call and, again, they would open themselves up to a lawsuit if they were helping him with his everyday needs and a passenger had a real emergency and they couldn't get their immediately.

And yet here they are, in the middle of a lawsuit. So to me the lawsuit point is mute.

 

I do not feel it is a service they should provide, but they let him board and apparently without a completed questionnaire regarding his need for a handicapped room. They had already begun the cruise. Yes, I do think with all things considered they should have bit the bullet and done what they needed to do to get him through the cruise. I don't believe anywhere in the information does it imply he needed a doctor or nurse at his beck and call. Under the circumstances they could have relied on the butler to secure additional help when needed. Should it have gotten that far? No. But it did and I think it was wrong to force him to disembark on one of the islands. Yes, it was wrong of him to take the cruise alone in the first place, but I believe this falls under the umbrella of 'two wrongs don't make a right'. I think their reaction was extreme.

[bananavan]

This has been a real page turner over the past few days.

As for cruise insurance, would that have been possible considering his pre-existing condition?

I agree with the comment that if my DH went on a cruise while I was sick in bed, I would also be hiring an attorney, but not to get my money back from the cruiseline.

I have no problem with him being disembarked mid cruise. At least they waited until they were at a non tender port.

He was given the opportunity to hire nursing assistance and chose not to. He was removed from the cruise.

That is called a consequence of his own actions. Celebrity gave him an out.

As to the suggestion that Celebrity should have simply provided the care for him, let's get real. Who will pay for this? We will. Those of us who play by the rules get to pay for far too many who feel entitled to different treatment. If the complainant prevailed in this case it would start a dangerous and expensive precedent. Need extra assistance? Don't worry, Celebrity will provide nursing care free of charge. If you have cruised enough (I have over 160 days at sea on three different cruiselines) you will see many people who stretch the rules farther than a pair of spandex pants on a 300 pound woman.

People are disembarked all of the time for not following the rules, none of which are extreme or difficult to comprehend.

I hope that we will discover that this is a baseless lawsuit, not because I harbor any ill will toward the complainant but because it sits precipitously at the top of a very slippery slope.

[rebeccalouiseagain]

Phoenix Dream you did bring up a good point. Either this man was able to fill out the form and claimed that he was self-sufficient or no one read the form and he slipped through the cracks. For instance, if he had not been allowed to board simply because he was in a wheelchair- that would be an ADA violation and the cruise line could have been sued.

[fungo]

I believe this falls under the umbrella of 'two wrongs don't make a right'. I think their reaction was extreme.

 

Your point is well taken. Two wrongs certainly did not make a right here and I don't think either party had this incident end how they would have preferred. I'm sure the gentleman would have preferred to stay on board and Celebrity would have preferred to have him hire the caregiver they went out of their way to find.

 

However, Celebrity does not employ people who are trained to provide physical care to a person with needs like his. If they would have just "sucked it up" they would have put his physical wellbeing at risk, the physical well being of their untrained employees at risk and opened themselves up to a level of liability that would make this lawsuit look like a mild disagreement. Not to mention they would have set a precedent for future cruisers.

 

Disembarking this gentleman was a last resort, and was as regrettable for Celebrity as it was for him, I'm sure.