Documents needed for children that I have legal custody of

[dwardlaw]

We have court ordered custody of our three grandchildren.

We have certified court papers giving us custody and certified birth records, will this be enough infor for us to be able to cruise with the children.

We would get them passports, but time is getting short and would be nervouse about getting them back in time, as we will be leaving on 6/9/11.

[6rugrats]

If you have full legal custody, all you need is to bring this original paperwork and those birth certificates, if it's a closed loop cruise.

[milton333]

What is the exact nature of the custody order? Sole legal and physical custody? If so, bring the court order and the birth certificates. If it's something else, it may be more complicated.

[dwardlaw]

We have been appointed to be their guardians. I will have to look at the court order. I went to the court house to have the paper certified and they asked what we needed then for and we told to take the children on a cruise and they said ok.

[rebeccalouiseagain]

Contact the cruise line and get the name of the individual you speak with to make sure that you have the proper documentation because the standard procedure is to have letters of consent from the parents but your case sounds different.

[tunseeker1]

I would also call customs/ins and ask them what you would need to bring them into the country. If something happens and you need to answer why you have them and are trying to get into the country it would be better to be prepared.

[beachchick]

Contact the cruise line and get the name of the individual you speak with to make sure that you have the proper documentation because the standard procedure is to have letters of consent from the parents but your case sounds different.

 

Having the name of a cruise line representative will not help in any way if they don't have the correct documentation. The cruise lines take a universal line regarding required documentation and ID: The passenger is responsible for determining what is needing and having it at the pier.

 

Sometimes, perhaps most of the time, the phone reps do not have/give/know the exact requirements and may or may not admit that. They simply cannot know what is needed for every situation for every passenger from every country in the world. The cruise lines give general information, such as legal birth certificate and photo ID for closed loop cruises or passport for X itineraries/countries. Sometimes they will know that visas or vaccinations are or are not required. I know situations where the cruise line rep has said something like, "Well, you're taking your own child, so you don't need anything extra" when it turns out that the port agents require that parent to prove they have the authority to take their child out of the country. The laws regarding this have gotten stricter and are more often enforced these days, at least it seems so.

 

Adults traveling with minor children, even their own, must be ready to provide proof that they can take the children on the trip. A signed and notarized letter from the other parent or both parents, depending and even if the parents are married and living together; court orders showing sole physical and legal custody; a death certificate if the other parent has died.

 

In this case, certified birth certificates and custody papers stating specifically that the grandparents have sole legal and physical custody (thus needing no permission from the parents) would meet the requirements. My caveat is that I am not a lawyer and cannot vouch for what every immigration agent might request. This is an unusual situation, but it shouldn't be a problem as long as the court papers state specifically that the grandparents have sole legal authority over the children.

 

The bottom line is that talking to a phone rep in no way makes sure that someone has the proper documentation.

 

beachchick

[cnote100]

I think passports are always good to have, but you would still need the paperwork as well. Somewhat echoing what's been said above, you should be good as long as the court order gives you full/sole custody. If there is any sort of joint custody involved, either get a permission slip from them, or get a judge to sign an order giving permission to exit the coutry, which, should not be difficult.

[rebeccalouiseagain]

Here is the bottom line... they do want you to cruise with them. Bring what they tell you to bring. I would simply get the name of the person because it shows that you contacted the cruise line with concerns. The cruise line dictates what is needed. They get their information from customs.. so if they don't know, they will patch you thru to someone that does.

 

In my case, I was emailed the form required for me to fill out for travel to Canada. It required me to bring a notarized letter of consent from my ex-husband. When I did a Caribbean cruise on NCL I was asked to fill out a form pre-cruise and bring documentation. On both of these cruises- Alaska and Caribbean- they looked over my paperwork thoroughly. Not only am I divorced but my son has a different last name. So I brought my birth certificate, notarized letter and my son's birth certificate. That's all they asked for. Now he has a passport but I still bring all the other items to be on the safe side.

 

We have cruise 18 times since my divorce and I have only been asked for this documentation twice at check-in. Sometimes no one asks but I wouldn't risk missing the cruise or being nervous.

 

The cruise line does want you to travel but customs and laws keep changing so you do have to double check with the cruise line.

[dwardlaw]

I am looking at the guardianship papers given to us by the court.

 

It say we are appointed by order on the court on the date as guardian in persuant to GL 109B and shall expire on the minors 18th birthday unless otherwise ordered by the court.

 

These letters of appointment are proof of the guardians full authority and responsibility to on behalf of the minor, whose date of birth regarding his/her support, care, education, health and welfare as follows to perform any and all act necessary for day to day care, custody, education, recreation and property of the minor.

To authorize any and all medical and dental care for the health and well being of the minor.

Such authority does not include the authority to make any medical decision requiring substituted judgement. (not sure what that means)

 

It also said can't move out of state with out an order from the court.

It has a certified seal and is signed by the magistrate.

 

I think this gives us full charge of the children.

All of this just makes me so nervous. Trying to make sure we have the correct paperwork

Thanks for the help

[tgetz]

What state are you in? The wording varies form state to state. I am a grandmother raising 2 grandchildren aand i am called the managing conservator not guardian. I have all the legal rights , choice of where they live, go to school,doctors, therapists, psychiatrists etc. etc. I can make all major decisons for the children, however, my decree said I had to get the parents signature before foreign travel. IF the parents refused to sign, i could have them jailed, but because often cruise lines and airlines require the the parents signatures, the parents were required to provide them in a prompt manner. But i got tired of asking the the parents for permision. I fianlly went back to court and got full and complete authority to travel when i wanted with the children, with out the parents permission, and i no longer need the parents permission to renew their passports either. I had to have a lawyer help , of course.

We have been on 6 cruises since the children have lived with us and only once did the cruise line even ask for the paperwork, but fortuntely i had it. I literally had to stand in court while the judge threatedned my son with jail if he didn't sign that time. Thank goodness i had followed through because we would not have been allowed on board otherwise.

I would suggest you have your attorney clarify your authority and rights, and perhaps to have a judge sign off on it. Unless you are on a close looped cruise, the children will still need passports no matter what. You have to have the parents sign to get passports, unless your attornery says you don't need their signature, and again, i would have that in writing, becasue the clerks at the passport office will look for the parents signed forms. Good luck to you.

There are lots of us raising grandchildren. DO you belong to any groups?? There is one near here called RAP, Relatives acting as parents. I get lots of advice from them.

[dwardlaw]

I doesn't say any think on the court papers that I need the parents signature for any thing. Just that we can't move out of the state with out court permission.

 

We live in Massachusetts.

 

Who would I contact to find out that this paper work is in order. This is a closed loop cruise.

 

I was told that we can get them passports with out the parents signature. I will call the children's lawyer

[tgetz]

I don't know who told you you can get the passports without the parents signature, but unless you have paper work certified by the court stating that, good luck at the passport clerk's office. YOu many not need passports for this trip so that isn't your issue this time, . from what i understand, and have dealt with, and is stated on every peice of information you recieve from the crusie lines, if you are questioned at the dock as to the necessary paperwork from the parents, you need proof either of their permission, or paperwork saying you don't need their permission. I know it is a pain, but because a few parents stole thier own children and took them over seas and wouldn't return without permission, the rules are very strict. Again, i have boarded often without being questioned, but i usually travel with a nanny tht appears like she could be the childrens mom. BUt i have been questioned and fortunaetly i had their sgnature that time.

Yes, i would check with the children's attorney. They will know the laws in your state, and the judges and know how easy it might be to just get a paper from the judge spelling this out. I have found the judges to bend over backwards to help me. Just becasue a paper says something that legally gives you a right, does not always mean the person reading the paper will interpret it like you would. I have run into that also. When the papers were actaully very specific in giving me the right to keep the children from their parents, one police officer didn't read it that way and it was a mess for awhile. I won, of course, but i am very specific now in what i want any paper to say from the court. I also have a wonderful attorney. GOod luck. my email is rshepley@gopublic. com if you have any other questions. You are doing a great thing for your grandchildren.

[dwardlaw]

Wow I thought I had what I needed. I called the chilren's lawyer, but I am afraid she may not know what I need. I think I will take a trip to the PO and see what they think.

Tomorrow I will call the kids probation officer and see what he has to say about getting a letter from the judge giving me permision to take them or get passports.

Oh boy the clock is ticking.

[tgetz]

An attorney may or may not know but it depends on the type of attorney. By PO did you mean Post Office or Probation officer?? Not sure they will know either... do you mean the kids probation officer or the parents? IF the parents, they sure wouldn't know. An attorney that represents divorcing parents would know this answer. Who represented you when you went to court? That type of attorney should know. Was the kids attorney not knowledgeable or jsut not helpful. Do they kids have a friend of the court appointed?

Sometimes, i have been amazed how helpful the judges clerk can be. Can you call the judges' office and just ask if your type of 'custody' normally makes provsions for this?

I just reread what your papers say and you have the word recreation in there... That could easily be interpreted to mean travel out of the US. But i would want it clarified.

Maybe all you need is a clarification of that. You might try calling the judges office and explain your predicament and ask if you typed something up if he or she would sign it. Then jsut type up something that clearly explains you have all the legal rights of a parent or whatever rights you have.. DO the parents have the legal obligation to support the children.

You know if you go to all this trouble, they won't even ask for the papers??? BUt you will at least be able to sleep at night and not worry your trip will be ruined..... :-) Glad you are looking into this now instead of two days before you leave....

[dwardlaw]

The children have a probation offericer and I was going to take the paper to the Post office and see what they think.

 

The parents are supose to but don't pay any support.

 

They have no parential rights to one of the children, but they have parential right to 2 of them, what ever that means.

 

I have a restraining order againt the mother so I can't contact her.

 

Not sure where the father is.

[reallyitsmema]

The children have a probation offericer and I was going to take the paper to the Post office and see what they think.

 

The parents are supose to but don't pay any support.

 

They have no parential rights to one of the children, but they have parential right to 2 of them, what ever that means.

 

I have a restraining order againt the mother so I can't contact her.

 

Not sure where the father is.

I would just suggest that you make sure that you don't have to go through this again if you travel with these children in the future. I would get a document from the court that addresses all future travel, not just this one cruise. Other people in similar situations have posted that they were able to get something generic for all travel, not a single trip.

 

Your grandchildren are lucky to have you. Good luck and I hope you get this sorted out in time for your trip.:)

[tgetz]

dwardlaw

I so toatally understand what you deal with.. it sounds all too familiar. I also agree with

the previous poster. Get this resolved once and for all. I had to deal with it for a couple of trips and finally said this is ridiculous and the judge agreed. We have had the children almost 4 years now, and i am sure we will have them until they graduate.

The post office can answer the question about the passports, but that is not sufficient for boarding a ship or flying internationally and i have had to show theparent documents for that also.

 

You actually do have time, and because you already have a trip planned and paid for, the court should be most sympathic. email me if you have any other questions and perhaps my attorney,who is licensed in other states besides Texas, could answer your question or refer you to who could.

[dwardlaw]

thanks for all the info. I am glad I have this info to make sure the kids can board. That would be awful to get there and find out they can't.

 

I am going to call the passport line so I can talk to a rep and see what is needed

 

Does any one know how I could contact TSA or customs. The ones that make the decisions when we get to the pier.

[tgetz]

It isn't TSA or customs. it is the people checking you in. and they are all part time employees of the lines. that is why some know to ask, some don't and some ???? it is like calling the cruise lines and getting an answer. it doesn't mean a thing.

 

 

if there are questions they pull over a supervisor and they are ususally fairly competent. that is why i suggeted getting the info in easy to understand - not legalese....

[dwardlaw]

now I am a nervoius wreck. It's a holiday in MA today so all the courts are closed. I will definatly get something in writing from the judge saying we can travel out of the country.

I will make as gerneric as possible

 

We have had the children for 3 years and I don't see them going any where until there of age. The youngest is 5 I just hope I can be here for him when he graduates.

[cnote100]

There a lot going here. Consult the kid's lawyer an/or a family lawyer in your jusrisdicition. I think the easiest (relatively so) way to go is likely going to be just get a quick hearing before the judge to get a court order allowing you take them out of the country. Language which gives any parent some rights and/or restrict your ability to move them might cause issues. Your needs are now way beyond the capabilities of those on this board. A court order allowing the cruise probably won't be too hard to get. You might even be able to get it done so that it allows future travel and the ability for you to get passports for them if you choose. But really, talk to family law attorney.

[tgetz]

Ditto of the last poster.....

Get an attorney, and get it to cover all travel. if you have had them 3 years it will be even easier....

Don't worry.... stress is not good and i know you have that already on a daily basis... :-)

[dwardlaw]

I spoke to a person at Royal Carribean and they told me to go to the website for documents need and this is what it said. See the last paragraph.

 

Family Legal Documents

 

Should the last names of the parent and minor child traveling with them differ, the parent is required to present the child's valid passport and visa (if required) and the child's birth certificate (original, a notarized copy or a certified copy). The name of the parent(s) and the child must be linked through legal documentation.

 

Adults who are not the parent or Legal Guardian of any minor child traveling with them are required to present the child's valid passport and visa or the child's birth certificate (original, a notarized copy or a certified copy) and an original notarized letter signed by at least one of the child's parents. The notarized letter from the child's parent must authorize the traveling adult to take the child on the specific cruise, must authorize guardian to sign legal documentation/waivers for participation in any activities requiring them (i.e. Rock Climbing, Flowrider, Bungee Trampoline, Inline Skating, or Ice Skating) and must authorize the traveling adult to supervise the child and permit any medical treatment that must be administered to the child. IF A NON-PARENT ADULT IS A LEGAL GUARDIAN, THE ADULT MUST PRESENT A CERTIFIED CERTIFICATE OF GUARDIANSHIP WITH RESPECT TO THE CHILD.

 

This is what I have and it has no restrictions.

[tgetz]

Wonderful!!!

In texas the term is not guardian so it is confusing and my non parent manageing conservator is so loosy goosey.

 

So gald you have that taken care of, and now you can relax adn enjoy your trip....

 

Sounds like you can also get their passports when you want...

 

Have fun and let us know if the kids have a blast....