Whatever happened to.....

[PunkinsDad]

….basic good manners?? My extended family and I just got back from the Carnival Legend 4/17 sailing, and we had a wonderful time. My DW, DD and I were in cabin 8371, while my MIL, FIL and DS were in 8373 (the aft wrap on the starboard side).

I spend a lot of time out on my balcony, particularly in the evenings. For me it’s one of the best parts of the cruise. Typically I sit in one chair, with a table beside me and pull another chair up to put my feet up on. Since we always have to balcony divider open between the 2 cabins, my family uses the balcony to go back and forth between the cabins, so we move the chairs around.

 

I’ve never had a problem with this before, but apparently this was annoying the “gentleman” in one of the cabins below. On the 4th full day of the cruise, while leaving Roatan, I was treated to a loud sarcastic voice saying “Hey, do you think you could move your chairs around a little more……thanks”. I thought this was a strange request (actually I got the point, but I don’t normally respond to impolite language, so I ignored him.)

 

As the cruise went on, the language from my friend below became vulgar. “F-word” and “A**hole” being the most common. My initial reaction would have been to actually make a concerted effort to make MORE noise, but I decided that was beneath me. But I did elect not to modify my behavior due to the rude and vulgar nature of his language.

 

If he has simply said something to like, “Excuse me, but the noise of your balcony chairs is disturbing me, could you please try to be more quiet.” I would have made every effort to attenuate the noise. But since this man obviously had no clue about how to politely ask for consideration (poor upbringing obviously) I felt no need to heed his churlish requests.

 

I was raised to respect others, and to have proper manners, my wife and I have done our best to raise our two children the same way, we regularly receive compliments on how polite and respectful our son and daughter are. Unfortunately, good manners and basic courtesy, particularly in verbal discourse are becoming a lost art. It’s sad really, the world would be a much more civil and kind place if everyone would show a little basic respect for others. I’m truly sorry that he was disturbed by our activity, and if he had only communicated in a civil manner, I would have gladly addressed the problem. Instead, he chose the rude and obnoxious path, and therefore, I don’t care that he was annoyed.

[Jax2424]

….basic good manners?? My extended family and I just got back from the Carnival Legend 4/17 sailing, and we had a wonderful time. My DW, DD and I were in cabin 8371, while my MIL, FIL and DS were in 8373 (the aft wrap on the starboard side).

I spend a lot of time out on my balcony, particularly in the evenings. For me it’s one of the best parts of the cruise. Typically I sit in one chair, with a table beside me and pull another chair up to put my feet up on. Since we always have to balcony divider open between the 2 cabins, my family uses the balcony to go back and forth between the cabins, so we move the chairs around.

 

I’ve never had a problem with this before, but apparently this was annoying the “gentleman” in one of the cabins below. On the 4th full day of the cruise, while leaving Roatan, I was treated to a loud sarcastic voice saying “Hey, do you think you could move your chairs around a little more……thanks”. I thought this was a strange request (actually I got the point, but I don’t normally respond to impolite language, so I ignored him.)

 

As the cruise went on, the language from my friend below became vulgar. “F-word” and “A**hole” being the most common. My initial reaction would have been to actually make a concerted effort to make MORE noise, but I decided that was beneath me. But I did elect not to modify my behavior due to the rude and vulgar nature of his language.

 

If he has simply said something to like, “Excuse me, but the noise of your balcony chairs is disturbing me, could you please try to be more quiet.” I would have made every effort to attenuate the noise. But since this man obviously had no clue about how to politely ask for consideration (poor upbringing obviously) I felt no need to heed his churlish requests.

 

I was raised to respect others, and to have proper manners, my wife and I have done our best to raise our two children the same way, we regularly receive compliments on how polite and respectful our son and daughter are. Unfortunately, good manners and basic courtesy, particularly in verbal discourse are becoming a lost art. It’s sad really, the world would be a much more civil and kind place if everyone would show a little basic respect for others. I’m truly sorry that he was disturbed by our activity, and if he had only communicated in a civil manner, I would have gladly addressed the problem. Instead, he chose the rude and obnoxious path, and therefore, I don’t care that he was annoyed.

 

It is quite sad that alot of people are lacking manners these days. You handled it the best way, you are better than me. I may have had to say something myself, glad you still had a good cruise!

[PunkinsDad]

Thanks Jodi. The credit goes to my parents and grandparents. They are the ones who taught me respect, manners and above all, self-control. My wife and I do our best to pass that along to our children. I've said it a million times. Basic manners and common courtesy will open a lot of doors in life. More now than ever since those skills are becoming so sadly rare.

[waterwatcher]

OK, I'm going to go there. There are 2 sides to every story. Knowing other people are directly beneath you trying to enjoy their cruise also, it would have been the proper thing to do to pick up your chairs and move them quietly or drag them once to an area where you would have been comfortable keeping them. I have experienced "upstairs neighbors" and know how irritating it can be when they have no regard for those beneath them. Also, nice Thesaurus.

[ramrax4]

We had the misfortune of sitting next to a couple who were talking during a movie we were watching at the theater on our last cruise, it was only mildly annoying and we just ignored them but the problem was the 2 ladies in front of us thought we were the ones talking and rudely cussed us out...they were dropping f bombs left and right...needless to say we just left the theater instead of making a scene.

[Justsyd]

OK, I'm going to go there. There are 2 sides to every story. Knowing other people are directly beneath you trying to enjoy their cruise also, it would have been the proper thing to do to pick up your chairs and move them quietly or drag them once to an area where you would have been comfortable keeping them. I have experienced "upstairs neighbors" and know how irritating it can be when they have no regard for those beneath them. Also, nice Thesaurus.

 

I was going to say this. Polite goes both ways. If the person above you dragged chairs around for 4 days.....wouldn't you be a bit annoyed? And you probably wouldn't be polite after 4 days of someone above you being rude. Just sayin'.

[PunkinsDad]

OK, I'm going to go there. There are 2 sides to every story. Knowing other people are directly beneath you trying to enjoy their cruise also, it would have been the proper thing to do to pick up your chairs and move them quietly or drag them once to an area where you would have been comfortable keeping them. I have experienced "upstairs neighbors" and know how irritating it can be when they have no regard for those beneath them. Also, nice Thesaurus.

 

I respect your point of view, but we have never received any complaints on any of our previous cruises and our routine for this one was no different. My point is that if the person in question had expressed his concerns in a civilized manner, there would have been no problem at all. My family and I would have made a concerted effort to make less noise. But given the nature of the communications I felt that we had no particular obligation to do so.

 

I don't actually own a Thesaurus, but I was blessed with a good vocabulary, mainly because I have been an avid reader since the age of 4. (another "lost art")

[PunkinsDad]

I was going to say this. Polite goes both ways. If the person above you dragged chairs around for 4 days.....wouldn't you be a bit annoyed? And you probably wouldn't be polite after 4 days of someone above you being rude. Just sayin'.

 

Actually I would. After 43 years of life it has been my experience that if you communicate in a polite manner, you typically get better results.

 

I will be taking this into account on future cruises, but this time, I felt that the rude communications absolved me of any obligation to accommodate his "requests".

[skylock]

Thanks Jodi. The credit goes to my parents and grandparents. They are the ones who taught me respect, manners and above all, self-control. My wife and I do our best to pass that along to our children. I've said it a million times. Basic manners and common courtesy will open a lot of doors in life. More now than ever since those skills are becoming so sadly rare.

 

You have got to be kidding me. It was obvious you were disturbing your neighbor but because he did not ask you in the manner YOU wanted him to, you continued to scrape the chairs and you think you have manners?

 

Then you want to come on here all holier than thou and brag about what you did. You learned some funny manners in my opinion.

 

So just out of curiosity, you teach your children if they are bothering people, unless they are requested in what you deem the appropriate manner, they should make no attempts to comply with the request?

 

I bet you scrapped those chairs more than you had to out of spite too.

 

A person with manners and a good upbringing would have realized they were disturbing another person by whatever means the other person used and moved the chairs quieter and would not have had to hear the abusive language the rest of the cruise.

[PunkinsDad]

You have got to be kidding me. It was obvious you were disturbing your neighbor but because he did not ask you in the manner YOU wanted him to, you continued to scrape the chairs and you think you have manners?

 

Then you want to come on here all holier than thou and brag about what you did. You learned some funny manners in my opinion.

 

So just out of curiosity, you teach your children if they are bothering people, unless they are requested in what you deem the appropriate manner, they should make no attempts to comply with the request?

 

I bet you scrapped those chairs more than you had to out of spite too.

 

A person with manners and a good upbringing would have realized they were disturbing another person by whatever means the other person used and moved the chairs quieter and would not have had to hear the abusive language the rest of the cruise.

 

Missing the point. Actually, I did make some effort to make less noise. My initial reaction was not to do so, but I did anyway. I suppose in some people's world sarcasm and vulgar language is acceptable and should have all the validity of a properly worded and civil request. But I will not and never will reward/validate that sort of behavior. As I said, our basic routine RE: balcony furniture has never changed and this was the FIRST time anyone ever complained. If that makes me "Holier than Thou" in your opinion, then so be it.

[Justsyd]

Missing the point. Actually, I did make some effort to make less noise. My initial reaction was not to do so, but I did anyway. I suppose in some people's world sarcasm and vulgar language is acceptable and should have all the validity of a properly worded and civil request. But I will not and never will reward/validate that sort of behavior. As I said, our basic routine RE: balcony furniture has never changed and this was the FIRST time anyone ever complained. If that makes me "Holier than Thou" in your opinion, then so be it.

 

Out of all due respect...it sounds like you may be missing the point. Just because someone never complained before does not mean that you weren't bothering them.

 

You posted, bragging, that someone was rude to YOU, and just because they didn't use "proper language," you ignored them, and then you came on here telling everyone how terrible they were, and how wonderful you are.

 

Typically, one would tend to be observant of their actions, and when notified that they were disturbing others, would immediately apologize, and correct their behavior.

 

You stated that you did none of those. You bragged about how you were "above" that type of behavior, but then stated that you ignored the person that you bothered, and have done nothing but claim that they were all at fault....while you did "nothing" to them.

[skylock]

Missing the point. Actually, I did make some effort to make less noise. My initial reaction was not to do so, but I did anyway. I suppose in some people's world sarcasm and vulgar language is acceptable and should have all the validity of a properly worded and civil request. But I will not and never will reward/validate that sort of behavior. As I said, our basic routine RE: balcony furniture has never changed and this was the FIRST time anyone ever complained. If that makes me "Holier than Thou" in your opinion, then so be it.

 

I am not missing the point and I do not like vulgar language, but if it is being directed at me over something I know I was doing, if at all possible, I stop doing it. Where as you with your "good manners" felt no need to stop it because "noone had ever complained before". ??????

 

Just a tip, if that is what you are teaching your children to do also, you could get them seriously hurt at some point.

 

The guy made a "crack" about your moving the chairs, you chose to ignore it, so then he became abusive, you still didn't stop? On prinicpal because of the "manners" you were taught?

 

The "crack" would have been all I needed to modify my behavior, thereby never having to move to the abusive language in the first place. You were making the guy mad. So stop dragging chairs around the deck. Pick them up and put them where you need them. Problem averted and solved. Do you get it now?

[Cozzette2]

Some folks don't know how to confront so they use sarcasm. I think he was hoping you got the hint with his first sarcastic remark. When you didn't get his sarcasm and kept up the chair scraping he got madder because he was frustrated . I think I would have gone a bit snippy if I had to be underneath the noise of the chairs scraping too.

If someone made a comment on my noise I would have been embarrased that I disturbed someone, apologized, told the family to not scrape chairs but pick them up and try to be a good neighbor. I bet if he had felt like you where trying to keep it down he wouldn't have resorted to the bad language.

Just my opinion

[PunkinsDad]

Out of all due respect...it sounds like you may be missing the point. Just because someone never complained before does not mean that you weren't bothering them.

 

You posted, bragging, that someone was rude to YOU, and just because they didn't use "proper language," you ignored them, and then you came on here telling everyone how terrible they were, and how wonderful you are.

 

Typically, one would tend to be observant of their actions, and when notified that they were disturbing others, would immediately apologize, and correct their behavior.

 

You stated that you did none of those. You bragged about how you were "above" that type of behavior, but then stated that you ignored the person that you bothered, and have done nothing but claim that they were all at fault....while you did "nothing" to them.

 

Not the point of my post. At least I didn't intend for it to be so. My point was that if the initial, or follow on complaints had been polite or at least civil' The offended person would have received my best efforts to address his concerns. Perhaps I have a chip on my shoulder about this sort of thing. I'm not perfect after all (who is???)

 

And at the risk of repeating myself, our balcony activities on this cruise were in no way different than any of our previous cruises.

 

I will be taking this into account on future cruises.

 

I suppose my point is that polite and civil discourse is the proper and best way to resolve this type of issue. Sarcasm, and vulgarity will never be a good way to initiate communication between strangers, At least I hope not.

[PunkinsDad]

Some folks don't know how to confront so they use sarcasm. I think he was hoping you got the hint with his first sarcastic remark. When you didn't get his sarcasm and kept up the chair scraping he got madder because he was frustrated . I think I would have gone a bit snippy if I had to be underneath the noise of the chairs scraping too.

If someone made a comment on my noise I would have been embarrased that I disturbed someone, apologized, told the family to not scrape chairs but pick them up and try to be a good neighbor. I bet if he had felt like you where trying to keep it down he wouldn't have resorted to the bad language.

Just my opinion

 

Valid point. But I have a real problem with allowing the more "base" nature of civil discourse to become the mainstream. Be polite to me, and you will receive my full cooperation. I fear that I may be in the minority on this, but I'm too old now to change the way I feel about things like this.

 

Again, A polite request at the beginning would have avoided any further problems. That was the whole point of my post. Polite language costs nothing, and often is far more effective than the alternative.

[Cuizer2]

I’ve never had a problem with this before, but apparently this was annoying the “gentleman” in one of the cabins below ... My initial reaction would have been to actually make a concerted effort to make MORE noise, but I decided that was beneath me.

 

Based on what you wrote, apparently the "gentleman" was beneath you. :)

[skylock]

Whatever happened to BASIC good manners?

 

Yeah, that is what I am wondering too.

 

I am also wondering if the guy had ask in a more civil manner the previous 3 days and you did not hear him with all the chair scraping. I would LOVE to hear his side of the matter.

[PDXJAS]

Maybe he did ask nicely,but you did not hear him with all the chair moving.

[Jolimont]

Ahhh balconies! If it's not smoking it's chair noise ;-) I am happy with my inside cocoon.

[PunkinsDad]

Whatever happened to BASIC good manners?

 

Yeah, that is what I am wondering too.

 

I am also wondering if the guy had ask in a more civil manner the previous 3 days and you did not hear him with all the chair scraping. I would LOVE to hear his side of the matter.

 

Never heard from him before that. Is it possible....yes. But based on a lifetime of experience, I doubt it. The chair scraping was by no means constant. As I stated before, we have never received any complaints on any of our previous cruises.

 

That brings up another question......it's amazing that CCL with all the resources at their disposal can't specify deck chairs that can be moved about without making that annoying sound.

 

2 years ago we were in cabins on deck 8 on Carnival Legend and we worried about noise from chairs moving around on the Lido (deck 9). And we had no problems with noise. This time since our cabins were directly below the new "Adults only" Serenity deck, we anticipated even less noise. But the outcome was that we heard more chair-scraping than ever before. Perhaps I should have shouted rude and obscene language to those folks on the serenity deck..... I'm sure that would have produced positive results. :cool: Instead, we chose to just deal with it and not let it adversely affect our cruise.

[skylock]

Never heard from him before that. Is it possible....yes. But based on a lifetime of experience, I doubt it. The chair scraping was by no means constant. As I stated before, we have never received any complaints on any of our previous cruises.

 

That brings up another question......it's amazing that CCL with all the resources at their disposal can't specify deck chairs that can be moved about without making that annoying sound.

 

2 years ago we were in cabins on deck 8 on Carnival Legend and we worried about noise from chairs moving around on the Lido (deck 9). And we had no problems with noise. This time since our cabins were directly below the new "Adults only" Serenity deck, we anticipated even less noise. But the outcome was that we heard more chair-scraping than ever before. Perhaps I should have shouted rude and obscene language to those folks on the serenity deck..... I'm sure that would have produced positive results. Instead, we chose to just deal with it and not let it adversely affect our cruise.

 

You just don't get it do you? Just because you decided it was not that big a bother to you and no one ever complained before (that you heard anyway) does not mean that man should not be bothered either.

 

How do I know he WAS being bothered? Because he was yelling vulgar things at you after the 4th day which you choose to ignore. Forget manners, How smart was that on your part?

 

And I bet if you had of started yelling to the people on the lido decks, they would at least of had the manners to see what you were yelling about.

[PunkinsDad]

You just don't get it do you? Just because you decided it was not that big a bother to you and no one ever complained before (that you heard anyway) does not mean that man should not be bothered either.

 

How do I know he WAS being bothered? Because he was yelling vulgar things at you after the 4th day which you choose to ignore. Forget manners, How smart was that on your part?

 

And I bet if you had of started yelling to the people on the lido decks, they would at least of had the manners to see what you were yelling about.

 

Again, you are missing the point. In this day and age I suppose I may be somewhat of a dinosaur. Our activity on our balcony was not deliberately contrived to annoy. I try to respect everyone, The form and attitude of the communication I heard from my fellow guest was sarcastic and rude. If it had been civil and polite, then there would have been no further conflict. Call me whatever you wish, make any judgement you want, but a politely worded communication would have resolved the whole affair.

 

Again I will repeat that I heard no complaints prior to that time. It is obvious that you have come down on the side the gentlemen below. And while I respect everyone's opinion, I must respectfully disagree. Even a simple polite not posted with a sticky on our cabin door would have done fine. I always respect the wishes of others, as long as they are conveyed in a civil manner.

[JLC@SD]

Again, you are missing the point. In this day and age I suppose I may be somewhat of a dinosaur. Our activity on our balcony was not deliberately contrived to annoy. I try to respect everyone, The form and attitude of the communication I heard from my fellow guest was sarcastic and rude. If it had been civil and polite, then there would have been no further conflict. Call me whatever you wish, make any judgement you want, but a politely worded communication would have resolved the whole affair.

 

Again I will repeat that I heard no complaints prior to that time. It is obvious that you have come down on the side the gentlemen below. And while I respect everyone's opinion, I must respectfully disagree. Even a simple polite not posted with a sticky on our cabin door would have done fine. I always respect the wishes of others, as long as they are conveyed in a civil manner.

 

It seems that this guy went from somewhat sarcastic.....but he did add "thanks" to his first remark......to eventual vulgar language.

 

Something drove him to get become even more upset over this issue.........which you just dismissed......because you have always done this before, and nobody complained.......and besides.......he didn't ask you politely enough.

 

I would be interesting to hear the "other side of the story".........which he would probably say you were the rude one......but you obviously do not want to hear or even consider that.

[Faith of the Heart]

Again, you are missing the point. In this day and age I suppose I may be somewhat of a dinosaur. Our activity on our balcony was not deliberately contrived to annoy. I try to respect everyone, The form and attitude of the communication I heard from my fellow guest was sarcastic and rude. If it had been civil and polite, then there would have been no further conflict. Call me whatever you wish, make any judgement you want, but a politely worded communication would have resolved the whole affair.

 

Again I will repeat that I heard no complaints prior to that time. It is obvious that you have come down on the side the gentlemen below. And while I respect everyone's opinion, I must respectfully disagree. Even a simple polite not posted with a sticky on our cabin door would have done fine. I always respect the wishes of others, as long as they are conveyed in a civil manner.

 

 

I understand your point that *if* the gentleman had responded in a polite manner it would have resolved the whole affair, so you therefore think you are "in the right" in this situation.

 

I don't disagree that it would have been nicer and more polite if he had not been sarcastic or rude to you, BUT... if I was downstairs from you, I would probably think YOU were being rude for not being aware of how your actions were affecting me. True, in the spirit of being civil and in showing good manners, responding with a polite request to stop would have been a better response (I doubt anyone disagrees).

 

I understand you did not have any intent to be rude in this situation, but I don't think you are absolved of rudeness because it didn't occur to you that it might be annoying someone (that no one has complained to me is not an indication that no one else was ever bothered by this, since perhaps they thought it was more polite to not say anything, or didn't want to make a big deal while on vacation, tried to ignore it, or just put up with it as many of us might).

 

Being oblivious of others and your surroundings and how your actions might affect others is something I personally find to be incredibly rude and makes me wonder whatever happened to good manners.

 

Yeah, I think people should try and be more civil in general and certainly when complaining about something...they should also be more considerate and thoughtful of others without needing to be reminded (politely or impolitely). ;)

[Scotts73]

Maybe the guy should have put a sticky post it note on your cabin door or called security to come to your cabin and ask you to to be more respectful with your balcony chairs.

On our Alaska cruise we had some neighbors that sat out on their balcony blasting Spanish music as we were cruising the Inside Passage. Since I grew up learning, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all"...I chose to call security and they took care of it from there. :D