I am opposed to Princess’s tipping policy.

[CariBlue]

[quote name='spongerob']Trust me, CariBlue, when it comes to tipping I'm a George. I have no problem at all tipping in those circumstances where it is appropriate and deserved, and probably share your opinion of those who stiff service people just because they can.

All I am saying, in deference to our friends from other countries, is that we should try to objectively evaluate when, why, and how much we tip. They raise some good questions, and do not deserve to be attacked simply for stating a differing point of view. I think most are simply trying to understand, not looking for an excuse to be cheap.[/QUOTE]

Gotcha! Although I didn't attack him.
An attack would sound like this:

Why, you bleeping, cheap So-and-So! Get your *** off the ship if can't shell out a few bucks, you *****ing blankety-blank!

[Skitter]

I think anyone that does not leave any tip for the services they receive on a cruise should have to work on the ship for a week, putting up with all the "SPECIAL" people for 14 to 15 hours a day without a day off. Then come back to this board and let us hear from you about tipping.
Skitter

[Opinions]

[quote name='ahracer']I for one am quite happy with where I live.

Perhaps you need to broaden your horizons. Your argument is based upon the customs of your country and what you are used to. The problem is your are travelling on a U.S. cruiseline and tipping is expected.
Scott[/QUOTE]

This so called U.S. cruiseline has all their ships flagged in foreign countries and thus avoid many of the U.S. laws that would protect their employees!

[NE14CRUZN]

ALL this stuff leads to yes Wage reporting. You guys are on the right track. These folks are Independent Contractors with the cruise line. No US laws protect these folks while at sails. Check the ship Registry and that is the governing body. Why do you think none these ship are registered in the US. Duh!! Our laws and tax tarriffs are out of sight. These ships would be bankrupt..in one month.. MAritime law prevails and US laws are obsolete. All this junk about taxation is unbelieveable. The reason there is prepaid gratuities is that the pot is larger and makes the wait staff honest on the tip outs. Some of you have pointed out other staff who also depend on tips. This with the most important purpose resulting in those individuals receiving their fair share. The cruise line now has less pressure in supplementing those individuals for tips being skimmed from those front line staff. that is what it is all about. No more behind the scenes staffers revolting about skimmed tips. Hey no one really finds out what someone makes. Ofcourse they lied this is one step to keeping honest all those staffers who in the past skimmed and stated they received less and would tip out less to those behind the scene staffers. SOOOOOOO Those behind the scene folks get more and your staff gets less because they are not skimmin off the top!!! Which means the cruise lines are not supplementing those people who they were in the past. BOTTOM LINE PROFITABILITY FOR THE CRUISE LINE. LOOK FOR THE MONEY TRAIL AND YOU WILL SEE THE LIGHT!!!!!!!!

[floridakeith]

Just to add a bit of data to the debate. On our recent Sun Princess cruise in February our cabin steward's daily list showed he was responsible for 18 cabins. Our waiter and assistant waiter had our table for 6, the next table for 10 and an adjacent table for 4 to serve making 20 people in total, all of whom were present each night. Personally I find auto tipping an acceptable way of dealing with the issue and it is certainly convenient not having to carry money. I didn't ask the question on Sun Princess but on our previous Holland America cruise in January our waiter said that he and most of his colleagues prefer auto tipping which has only recently been implemented on Holland America.

[jjbko]

My wife and I were on a cruise with Celebrity Cruise Line, when tipping was done with an envelope the last night of the cruise. We were seated with 4 elderly ladys which we got to know quite well by the end of our 11 day cruise. They were very demanding about their food and service, even though the waiter and assistant went out of their way to make them happy, nothing seemed to satisfy them. Now not saying that all elderly people are the same, you could tell by their conversations, that they did not like to part with their money. So the last dinner night, all four walked away without a "thank you" to the waiter, or a envelope for his service.
At home we go to dinner quite often, (and I keep forgetting to ask my waiter how much he makes each week), when my ticket comes I always give according to my service.
That being said, $10 a day, is a bargin that can't be beat!!

[Wennfred]

If Tipping becomes a serious issue in your life that you have to spend hours with a CPA and sleepless hours, then dont cruise. Stay at home and save your money. Step into the shoes of a Waitress at home and see how important these tips are.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

[quote name='floridakeith']Just to add a bit of data to the debate. On our recent Sun Princess cruise in February our cabin steward's daily list showed he was responsible for 18 cabins. Our waiter and assistant waiter had our table for 6, the next table for 10 and an adjacent table for 4 to serve making 20 people in total, all of whom were present each night. Personally I find auto tipping an acceptable way of dealing with the issue and it is certainly convenient not having to carry money. I didn't ask the question on Sun Princess but on our previous Holland America cruise in January our waiter said that he and most of his colleagues prefer auto tipping which has only recently been implemented on Holland America.[/QUOTE]

I would think that the staff on HAL are most grateful for the new tipping policy. The old policy of "tipping not required" confused some and gave some others a justification for not tipping.

[quote name='NE14CRUZN']ALL this stuff leads to yes Wage reporting. You guys are on the right track. These folks are Independent Contractors with the cruise line. No US laws protect these folks while at sails. Check the ship Registry and that is the governing body. Why do you think none these ship are registered in the US. Duh!! Our laws and tax tarriffs are out of sight. These ships would be bankrupt..in one month..[/QUOTE]

Just to clarify here NCL America a division of NCL has US flagged ships and must abide by US laws and are still in business after about a year. Of course it cost a lot more to cruise on one of their ships than it does on a foreign flagged ship.

Bill

[Globaliser]

[quote name='S.S.Oceanlover']Just to clarify here NCL America a division of NCL has US flagged ships and must abide by US laws and are still in business after about a year. Of course it cost a lot more to cruise on one of their ships than it does on a foreign flagged ship.[/QUOTE]And the operation is nevertheless still losing money hand over fist because of staffing costs, as has now been officially admitted by NCL. I don't know how long Star will want to put up with that, nor what effect NCL's partial sale by Star will have on that issue.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

[quote name='Globaliser']And the operation is nevertheless still losing money hand over fist because of staffing costs, as has now been officially admitted by NCL. I don't know how long Star will want to put up with that, nor what effect NCL's partial sale by Star will have on that issue.[/QUOTE]

I don't dispute your statement about them losing money hand over fist. Maybe they are, maybe they're not. I don't read their financials. I have little to no interest in their company or product.
I was just responding to your statement that any ship flying a US flag would be bankcrupt in a month.

Bill

[calikak]

Personally, I think a better system would be for cruise staff to be paid a better wage in the first place, rather than hoping that passengers will be generous. I don't see how in this day and age a US corporation thinks it's appropriate to pay a worker $50 a month. I would much prefer to pay a slightly higher fare (we're talking $70 per person on a one-week cruise) to know that the staff are going to make a decent living.

However, I don't see Princess making that change, because the trend in cruising seems to be the opposite. The cruise fares remain low but no longer include things (espresso in the dining room comes to mind) that used to be included in the cruise fare. If Princess added tipping to their cruise fare, their overall prices would go up and they would have more trouble competing for new passengers who don't know enough about cruising to understand all the policies.

[terrierjohn]

[font=Verdana][/font]

[font=Verdana] [/font]

[font=Verdana]I just wish I could get the same response when I ask for guidance on cabin selection.[/font]

[font=Verdana]However it certainly raised some interesting comments and I have to say that my attitude to auto tipping has changed a little, but I would still prefer to see it included in the headline price for all cruise lines and all cruise staff paid a fully competitive wage which did not rely on tips. This would not preclude anyone from offering that little bit extra for special service, which is what tipping should surely be for.[/font]

[font=Verdana]As for whether Princess makes a profit from this, I would certainly hope not and as I made clear in my original post the stats. were all my own and are probably totally inaccurate. Still some people felt that my wage estimates were far too high which, if true would mean that the total pool would cover far more than my original estimate, and of course the numbers are very large, something that no one commented on.[/font]

[font=Verdana]Similarly no one questioned my guesstimate for spending on drinks, which I thought I might have underestimated by some way. [/font]

[font=Verdana]I forgive those posters who were a bit rude about anyone objecting to tipping, but as mentioned above I feel that it’s the employer’s responsibility to provide an acceptable living wage and I would prefer only to tip when provided with extra special service. [/font]

[Tandy22]

What difference does it make what their salary is? We tip for service and have always had great service. I agree with we be gone. Seems like certain people just are to cheap to tip and are looking for an excuse.

[cherylandtk]

[quote name='terrierjohn'][font=Verdana][/font] ...but as mentioned above I feel that it’s the employer’s responsibility to provide an acceptable living wage and I would prefer only to tip when provided with extra special service. [/font][/QUOTE]

Well, Terrierjohn, perhaps we should just chalk this up to cultural differences. Over on this side of the pond, we are accustomed to tipping most service, and over on your side, it is quite a bit different. Now if we could all just agree on the "right" side of the road to drive on......

[bdjam]

[quote name='Wennfred']If Tipping becomes a serious issue in your life that you have to spend hours with a CPA and sleepless hours, then dont cruise. Stay at home and save your money. Step into the shoes of a Waitress at home and see how important these tips are.[/QUOTE]
[font='Comic Sans MS']Thank you – I’d venture to say that most people who don’t offer gratuities are those who never worked for them. It is the way of American business to pay very low wages for service jobs and expect the customer to make the wage acceptable through tips. That may not be the right way to do business, but it’s what is acceptable and passengers should include tips as part of their vacation budget. [/font]

[jfond]

On the cruise we were on a few years ago, we did not feel that we got great service from the wait staff (We were dining Personal Choice); but we felt that we got exceptional service from our Cabin Steward, so we reduced the amount of tip from the wait staff, and increased the cabin steward. It was still the $10/day, but it went to the more deserving person.

[ILUVCRUIZN]

Look at what fun and excitement ONE day on a ship entails. These people work their BU*** off, I do not think that 10.00 a day is to much to ask for.

I guess I do not understand why people are stating that they rather see it in the initial price you would pay for the cruise. Who cares, you are still paying for it either way.

JMO!!!!!!!!!!!

[Globaliser]

[quote name='S.S.Oceanlover']I was just responding to your statement that any ship flying a US flag would be bankcrupt in a month.[/QUOTE]It wasn't my statement. But the point remains that the NCL America operation would be bankrupt by now if it wasn't being bankrolled by a Malaysian/Singaporean parent company with deep pockets.[quote name='ILUVCRUIZN']I guess I do not understand why people are stating that they rather see it in the initial price you would pay for the cruise. Who cares, you are still paying for it either way.[/QUOTE]It's just the cultural difference. We're used to getting service after having paid for it all already in the original price; we're used to getting service from people who are not looking for tips, expecting tips or dependent on tips.

That's why the idea that tipping for service is not something we're used to. But I can equally understand why people who've grown up in a culture in which they must tip all service employees can't understand what it's like to [U]not[/U] have to tip.

[spongemike]

I was told on a recent Princess cruise that Princess extracts a "handling fee" for handling the distribution of the tips.

[zalusky]

The bottom line is tipping in this case is about the cruise line being able to advertise an artifically low price. To some extent it is that way everywhere.

It use to be that you had wiggle room in the 15% to reward good service. I do not believe that is really true anymore. Every one expects the minimum recommended gratuity whether on the cruise ship or at a restaurant.
In the USA the government assumes there is a 15% kicker on restaurant income and will get mad if you dont declare it whether you actually received it or not.

The cruise industry has taken this farther by making the gratuity more like 80% . Once again its not about rewarding service, its about advertising artifically low prices.

[spongerob]

[quote name='CariBlue']Gotcha! Although I didn't attack him.
An attack would sound like this:

Why, you bleeping, cheap So-and-So! Get your *** off the ship if can't shell out a few bucks, you *****ing blankety-blank![/QUOTE]

Cari - yes, I apologize, you didn't attack. I worded my post in a ham-fisted manner.

Zalusky - there is a lot of reality in your comments. It's not just cruise lines, it's our service culture in the US that is at fault. That, and our desire to exercise the art of the deal. We're a strange bunch, aren't we? We'll spend a fortune on image, and chisel away at value. No wonder we are such a paradox.

[bdjam]

[quote name='zalusky']The cruise industry has taken this farther by making the gratuity more like 80% . Once again its not about rewarding service, its about advertising artifically low prices.[/QUOTE] [font='Comic Sans MS']There’s a lot to this I don’t understand. Where does the 80% figure come from? And where does it say that any passenger must tip? Ask anyone on a ship that works for tips and they will tell you many stories of being stiffed when it comes to gratuity. Auto tips and tip envelopes are all optional for the passenger. [/font]
[font='Comic Sans MS'][/font]
[font='Comic Sans MS'][/font][font='Comic Sans MS']There’s nothing artificial about the low cruising price – a passenger can cruise for the low fare they pay given they omit a few of the onboard revenue generating options their cruise presents. I don’t see anything underhanded or artificial about tipping. I do so not out of obligation to the staff or because the cruise line pays low wages. I tip because I appreciate the effort that the staff members exert to ensure that I have a good vacation. [/font]
[font='Comic Sans MS'][/font]
[font='Comic Sans MS'][/font][font='Comic Sans MS']All that being said, I still think that anyone who stiffs a staff member – for whatever reason – should not be cruising. Even if the service is not adequate, there are other means by which one’s complaint can be resolved. And again, I think any passenger should include in their cruise budget an adequate amount for tipping – not because the cruise prices are artificial, but because people deserve to be rewarded for providing good service.[/font]

[Readyto go]

I am all for auto tipping,it makes it a lot easier. I have more enjoyable things to do on the last night of my cruise besides counting money out and stuffing it in envelopes. and remembering who gets what and finding them. Also I think it is a way the 'stiffers' would be more likely [u]not[/u] to do what they do best:p.(stiff)
I also can understand if the cruise line does deduct a small part of what they collect, I feel it's not for their own pocket, but to pay their employees in the Personnel and accounting dept. to do this service for the people who worked so hard for it.
This will only be my 3rd cruise but the first with auto tipping and I couldn't be happier.:D

[S.S.Oceanlover]

[quote name='Globaliser']It wasn't my statement. But the point remains that the NCL America operation would be bankrupt by now if it wasn't being bankrolled by a Malaysian/Singaporean parent company with deep pockets.It's just the cultural difference. We're used to getting service after having paid for it all already in the original price; we're used to getting service from people who are not looking for tips, expecting tips or dependent on tips.

[/QUOTE]
my apologies for the incorrect attribution earlier. Whether NCL America would be bankcrupt in a month can be debated forever. You threw out a statement that any cruiseline that sailed an American flag ships would be bankcrupt in a month.
I simply pointed out that is incorrect. It doesn't matter if their parent company has deep pockets, found loopholes to survive or how they did it, the simple fact remains that they are still in business after a year, not bankrupt in a month.
We'll just agree to disagree. :)

Bill

[zalusky]

I am saying that the cruise industry makes the tip account for 80% or more of their income. Whereas in land based restaurants and other service jobs the percentage is generally much lower.

I am also saying that although its not the law you tip $10 per day its the expected math and goes into the calculation of their income. These people would not work for the cruise lines if all they got is $50 month base salary.

As a result the cruise lines advertise xxx dollars knowing that your onboard expenses are not in that upfront advertised amount. On a week cruise for say princess in the carribean you might pay say $700 - $800 and another $70+ in tips thats roughly 8-10% they dont have to advertise in the fare.

It makes a difference. These days its really like your paying 80A% of their promised salary and any amount above the $10/day is the wiggle amount that represents the true tip.

Its like going to a fancy restaurant that advertises great meals for $10 a person and then you pay the waiter/cook/busboy seperately and the establishment pays them essentially nothing.

I dont generally mind the technique other than that the establishment is burying the true cost of the event. Its like taxes there are so many people taking a cut that you just cant figure the real cost until after the fact.