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Just off Freedom caught in storm October 9th

PH8

By PH8,
in Royal Caribbean International

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mommabean

mommabean

Posted
Posted
I think before we all give rci and the captain too hard a time we should realize that the Monarch was due to dock at the same berth as freedom was occupying a short 12 hrs later. From what I can gather the weather was pretty unpredictable and I assume the captain and folks at RCI were thinking "we should get the Freedom out of port while we can, so we don't possibly end up with two ships at port canaveral the following morning" The Disney Dream and Carnival Sensation had no ships due at their berths the following morning so they could afford to "wait it out" and not really be in any type of rush to get out of the way of a ship trying to do a turn around the following morning. Yes the Freedom could have stayed in port until midnight or so and then sailed and been just fine but the weather was so unpredictable, who could have known for sure that she would not have been sitting at the berth the following morning, or possibly navigating out of the harbor at the same time the monarch was due in and therefor delaying the monarchs arrival and disembarking-embarking etc. So I think given the situation and the weather reports that were given if it was my call I would have sailed promptly at 4:30 also.

 

And we already know what would have happened if they had elected to depart 2 hours early to beat the weather. :rolleyes:

 

Gina

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csk

csk

Posted
Posted
Were the bars opened at least??

 

My friend said everyone was instructed to go back to there cabins between 7-8 oclock that was when the middle of the storm must of hit. They did then set up a buffet dinner around 10:30 for those who missed the late dinner, the crew were working very hard to get everything cleaned up. she did not say if anything else was open, but it did sound like everything was closed because of the mess.

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M2ice

M2ice

Posted
Posted

Not going to take sides on if the ship should of left port or not.

 

Additional information that has not been presented on this thread before.

 

1-The port and pilots are not the same. Since the pilots have to transfer from the ship to their boat at sea they may have decided that the conditions were not safe after the FOS left. That would mean that the port was "open" but that ships needing a pilot could not sail.

 

2-I live very near the port and was watching the weather, this cell come up very quickly. In addition at first it was expected to move west over land, rather it moved north towards the port.

 

3-The severe rocking was likely as the ship reached the Gulf Stream. Those who sail from Port Canaveral often know that if can get rocky crossing the stream if the wind is right (or wrong). It usually takes an hour and a half to reach the Gulf Stream after you sail.

 

The fact is that this all happened in a very short period of time that was at the same time the ships were sailing.

 

Go to the supermarket and see what happens when a storm comes up. Some people wait for it to pass and some run through it to their cars. Doesn't mean that one is right or wrong, just looked at the facts and made different decisions.

 

If one of the ships in port had broken lose and hit the dock all the chatter would be about why they didn't leave like the FOS.

 

Does seem that there are a lot of people who need to make a drama out of what is nothing more then a decision by a well trained Master with the information he had at hand.

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debandbruce

debandbruce

Posted
Posted

Here is my possibly dumb question. My husband and I are sailing on the Freedom in just over 4 weeks and we are really looking forward to it. We were talking about the late sitting missing dinner and passengers having to return to their cabins. This is the first cruise we have chosen late seating, now I know that what happened this past weekend is very rare but my hubby is diabetic and missing dinner and having to wait so late to get any food could cause some serious issues for him. I wonder what would be the best thing to do in that case? We were kidding around about taking snacks on board but I think I will do that anyway. Can't hurt to have something on hand and it won't go to waste. Just wondering if anyone has actually had to deal with this kind of situation. Glad everyone on board is safe and can't wait to sail the Freedom.

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LovesSaltwater

LovesSaltwater

Posted
Posted
All the drawers in the desk would roll out and then slam back, pretty well eliminating any real rest.

 

Sounds like a good argument for packing along a roll of wide masking or other tape! Has anyone tried that in this kind of situation?

 

We're going on Allure in early January...is there a possibility for such a storm then? (gulp):eek: (obviously I'm a Caribbean cruiser newbie)

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joand452

joand452

Posted
Posted
Here is my possibly dumb question. My husband and I are sailing on the Freedom in just over 4 weeks and we are really looking forward to it. We were talking about the late sitting missing dinner and passengers having to return to their cabins. This is the first cruise we have chosen late seating, now I know that what happened this past weekend is very rare but my hubby is diabetic and missing dinner and having to wait so late to get any food could cause some serious issues for him. I wonder what would be the best thing to do in that case? We were kidding around about taking snacks on board but I think I will do that anyway. Can't hurt to have something on hand and it won't go to waste. Just wondering if anyone has actually had to deal with this kind of situation. Glad everyone on board is safe and can't wait to sail the Freedom.

 

I'm a diabetic, too, and always travel with pre-wrapped snacks -- granola bars, those Nabisco crackers with cheese spread, cheese crackers. You know the type. I always take something like when we head off the ship for an excursion, too. You never know when or where your next meal is coming from! We were just in Disney World and brought a bunch of snacks with us then, too. And I never fly without something. You'll have a great cruise!

 

Glad things have settled down and hope the rest of the cruise is smooth as glass! We had some rough seas coming back to FLL after our first cruise. Fortunately, that's been our only experience, and I hope it stays that way!!

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debandbruce

debandbruce

Posted
Posted

joand452 that is what I was thinking of, some protein bars and the little cheese/pb&cracker packets. On our recent Eclipse trip we had fresh fruit in our room so he always had a quick snack. We won't have that this time but will make a mental note to grab some a few pieces of fruit from the Windjammer to have on hand in the cabin. Both shore excursions we have booked have lunch available but will put some granola bars in his back pack.

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c-legs

c-legs

Posted
Posted
Not going to take sides on if the ship should of left port or not.

 

Additional information that has not been presented on this thread before.

 

1-The port and pilots are not the same. Since the pilots have to transfer from the ship to their boat at sea they may have decided that the conditions were not safe after the FOS left. That would mean that the port was "open" but that ships needing a pilot could not sail.

 

2-I live very near the port and was watching the weather, this cell come up very quickly. In addition at first it was expected to move west over land, rather it moved north towards the port.

 

3-The severe rocking was likely as the ship reached the Gulf Stream. Those who sail from Port Canaveral often know that if can get rocky crossing the stream if the wind is right (or wrong). It usually takes an hour and a half to reach the Gulf Stream after you sail.

 

The fact is that this all happened in a very short period of time that was at the same time the ships were sailing.

 

Go to the supermarket and see what happens when a storm comes up. Some people wait for it to pass and some run through it to their cars. Doesn't mean that one is right or wrong, just looked at the facts and made different decisions.

 

If one of the ships in port had broken lose and hit the dock all the chatter would be about why they didn't leave like the FOS.

 

Does seem that there are a lot of people who need to make a drama out of what is nothing more then a decision by a well trained Master with the information he had at hand.

 

VERY well said. Thanks for postings those balanced thoughts.

I particularly like your point #1.....The pilots have a fair bit to say about all that. I can assure you that, in conditions like the ship encountered ~~ 2 hours after sailing, if, and only if the pilot was still on board ( I don't know their operating boundaries after exiting the Canaveral channel ), he would still be on board next morning !!! THere is no way that a pilot boat would venture out in what appears to be Beaufort 8-10 conditions tp get to the ship and pick him up.

A very similar situation plagued the whole of the Alaskan Panhandle and Gulf last week September....pilots deployments were thrown for a loop and lots of them who could not get off at Pine Island ( drop point for BC Coastal pilots working for Vancouver ) ended up in Alaska...and viceversa.....Same situation for pilots embarking at the North End of the Panhandle couldnot get off for 2-3 days...This stuff is hell to work in and deal with

Cheers

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Blurgh

Blurgh

Posted
Posted

Alot of the comments above would be more valid if no other ships stayed at home. And honestly the statements from the spokesman stink of PR BS.

 

Ultimately the decision on whether it will have been the correct decision or not is in the hands of the customers. If they don't lose too much business because of it, then it wasn't a big deal. We shall see when the ship returns. These types of events tend to be media circuses, on the plus side for them, it happened on the first day and not the last. lol.

 

JMHO, if you treat a cruise ship like a cargo ship, eventually you're going to make decisions that tick off customers. Alot of people are not totally aware that the ocean can be, well, dynamic. If you subject them to *that*...

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UNV-IT!!!

UNV-IT!!!

Posted
Posted
Alot of the comments above would be more valid if no other ships stayed at home. And honestly the statements from the spokesman stink of PR BS.

 

Ultimately the decision on whether it will have been the correct decision or not is in the hands of the customers. If they don't lose too much business because of it, then it wasn't a big deal. We shall see when the ship returns. These types of events tend to be media circuses, on the plus side for them, it happened on the first day and not the last. lol.

 

JMHO, if you treat a cruise ship like a cargo ship, eventually you're going to make decisions that tick off customers. Alot of people are not totally aware that the ocean can be, well, dynamic. If you subject them to *that*...

 

Have to agree. The fact that two other lines held their ships sure makes it seem like rccl dropped the ball on this one.

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SECdawg

SECdawg

Posted
Posted

According to an article in Florida Today, the reason the other two ships stayed in port was due to their position in port.

 

"Ben Borgie, a captain and member of the Canaveral Pilots Association, said Freedom of the Seas was positioned in such a way at its terminal that it could leave the port safely. The terminal positioning of the Dream and Sensation made it less safe in the weather conditions at the time for those ships to leave because they would have had to make a complicated maneuver in the port’s turning basin to get out of the main channel."

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LeeBe

LeeBe

Posted
Posted
Sounds like a good argument for packing along a roll of wide masking or other tape! Has anyone tried that in this kind of situation?

 

We're going on Allure in early January...is there a possibility for such a storm then? (gulp):eek: (obviously I'm a Caribbean cruiser newbie)

 

I guess there is always a chance but I would not worry about it, where your going normally is a lot better sailing:). That storm that I mentioned was off Nova Scotia in October an area probably not know for the smoothest of seas.. HA! Have had a good number of cruises over the years and that one is only one that sticks in my memory in terms of weather. I probably would have worn out the tape by carrying it and not by using it!!

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bajathree

bajathree

Posted
Posted
Not going to take sides on if the ship should of left port or not.

 

Additional information that has not been presented on this thread before.

 

1-The port and pilots are not the same. Since the pilots have to transfer from the ship to their boat at sea they may have decided that the conditions were not safe after the FOS left. That would mean that the port was "open" but that ships needing a pilot could not sail.

2-I live very near the port and was watching the weather, this cell come up very quickly. In addition at first it was expected to move west over land, rather it moved north towards the port.

 

3-The severe rocking was likely as the ship reached the Gulf Stream. Those who sail from Port Canaveral often know that if can get rocky crossing the stream if the wind is right (or wrong). It usually takes an hour and a half to reach the Gulf Stream after you sail.

 

The fact is that this all happened in a very short period of time that was at the same time the ships were sailing.

 

Go to the supermarket and see what happens when a storm comes up. Some people wait for it to pass and some run through it to their cars. Doesn't mean that one is right or wrong, just looked at the facts and made different decisions.

 

If one of the ships in port had broken lose and hit the dock all the chatter would be about why they didn't leave like the FOS.

 

Does seem that there are a lot of people who need to make a drama out of what is nothing more then a decision by a well trained Master with the information he had at hand.

 

 

This pretty much cuts the legs out from under theory #1

 

Disney Dream and Carnival Sensation, also scheduled to depart Sunday afternoon, decided to hunker down until the system blew through. Carnival Sensation overnighted in Port Canaveral, departing at 8 a.m. Monday. "We felt it was best to keep the ship in port until conditions improved for the comfort of the guests and crew," explains spokeswoman Jennifer De La Cruz. Disney went the same route. "The wind was severe, and we made the decision in talking with the harbor pilot to wait," reports Disney Cruise Line spokeswoman Rebecca Peddie.

 

It's important to note that, according to De La Cruz, Carnival made its decision to hold Sensation overnight before Freedom of the Seas encountered the worst bout of weather.

 

No where does it say that the harbor pilots shut down or made the decision for the other cruise lines. Carnival and Disney seem to be quite clear in stating it was THEIR decision.

 

http://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/news/news.cfm?ID=4628

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uksimonusa

uksimonusa

Posted
Posted
According to an article in Florida Today, the reason the other two ships stayed in port was due to their position in port.

 

"Ben Borgie, a captain and member of the Canaveral Pilots Association, said Freedom of the Seas was positioned in such a way at its terminal that it could leave the port safely. The terminal positioning of the Dream and Sensation made it less safe in the weather conditions at the time for those ships to leave because they would have had to make a complicated maneuver in the port’s turning basin to get out of the main channel."

 

And that makes the most sense of all

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bajathree

bajathree

Posted
Posted
According to an article in Florida Today, the reason the other two ships stayed in port was due to their position in port.

 

"Ben Borgie, a captain and member of the Canaveral Pilots Association, said Freedom of the Seas was positioned in such a way at its terminal that it could leave the port safely. The terminal positioning of the Dream and Sensation made it less safe in the weather conditions at the time for those ships to leave because they would have had to make a complicated maneuver in the port’s turning basin to get out of the main channel."

 

Article in it's entirety:http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2011310120012

 

A rough ride at sea Sunday on Royal Caribbean’s Freedom of the Seas has Melbourne resident and veteran cruiser Kathy Vannucci vowing never to take another cruise during hurricane season.

 

Not long after leaving Port Canaveral Sunday, the 4,000-passenger ship apparently encountered winds much stronger than forecast, which caused the ship to list. That in turn sent dishes sliding off tables and chairs flying. Passengers were told to return to their cabins, and those who didn’t make it held on to whatever was bolted down.

 

“Scared me a lot,” said the 61-year-old Vannucci in an email. She was, and remains, on board with her husband, Darryl, for the the seven-day cruise to the eastern Caribbean. “I kept thinking about the parents with babies and small children and wondering how they were coping.”

 

Royal Caribbean issued a statement Tuesday saying no serious injuries resulted from the experience, and the ship, while sustaining some damage, was safe to continue on its itinerary.

 

The at-sea mayhem was blamed on the weekend storm that socked Central Florida with high winds and torrents of rain. The weather was bad enough that two other ships scheduled to leave Port Canaveral on Sunday, Disney Cruise Line’s Dream and Carnival Cruise Lines Sensation, delayed their departures and left early the next morning.

 

The Freedom of the Seas captain, who ultimately makes the decision on whether or not to sail, opted to leave Port Canaveral, though it was three hours later than the normal 4:30 p.m. departure.

 

“When Freedom of the Seas departed Port Canaveral, the port was still opened and the pilots were still taking ships out,” said Cynthia Martinez, Royal Caribbean’s manager of global corporate communications. “As you may be aware, the weather the ship encountered was not forecasted. The wind was actually more than three times what was forecasted.”

 

Jennifer de la Cruz, a spokeswoman for Carnival, said “based on the adverse weather conditions, we opted to keep the ship docked in Port Canaveral and sail on Monday morning.”

 

Disney Cruise Line issued a statement that said the Dream, left at 4:30 a.m. Monday morning “after the weather had subsided.”

 

“Despite the late departure, the ship is still visiting the planned ports, just on different days, before returning to Port Canaveral on Thursday,” Disney said.

 

Ben Borgie, a captain and member of the Canaveral Pilots Association, said Freedom of the Seas was positioned in such a way at its terminal that it could leave the port safely. The terminal positioning of the Dream and Sensation made it less safe in the weather conditions at the time for those ships to leave because they would have had to make a complicated maneuver in the port’s turning basin to get out of the main channel.

 

The Vannuccis have been on about 30 cruises, but none came close to matching what happened on this one. The couple said the ship ran into 100 mph winds and for a period it actually felt as if the ship was moving in reverse.

 

Darryl Vannucci, 61, said in an email to his daughter Monday that it was “the most frightening thing we have been through.”

 

The couple was eating dinner when things took a drastic turn.

 

“Stuff was sliding off tables,” he said in his email, “and then it got worse and a whole closest of dishes opened and dishes all flew out. Food and plates on the holding bar for pickup all flew into the dining area. Then the hot food from the grill flew off at the cooks. I was holding onto the ledge of the window as the ship moved left and right.”

 

Royal Caribbean’s Martinez said the 4,017 passengers will be given on-board credits. And those passengers in staterooms “directly impacted by rain water due to the storm” will get a 50-percent discount on a future cruise.

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mommabean

mommabean

Posted
Posted
Compensation for being on a ship and the weather kicks up ? Crazy:mad::eek:

 

And then if your room gets wet because you didn't securely latch the balcony door you get 50% off your next cruise? :eek: And we know that's the reason a lot of these rooms got wet. People leave balcony doors open all the time.

 

Gina

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Aquahound

Aquahound

Posted
Posted
You are correct, the lines are not cement. I think cement lines would probably be a bad idea.

 

This is like asking if you have ever seen what happens when the anchor drops while cruising in heavy seas or what happens when the windows from the Viking lounge blow out or when the radar equipment flys off the mountings or the ships bridge blows off and lands on the pool deck. Yes these would all be bad but they are all also secured in such a way that is considered safe.

 

Ships lines, non cement ones, are very capable of securing a ship quite safely to a cement dock in a protected harbor. The possibility of those lines failing in those conditions is much less than liquor bottles, glass doors and many other non secured items becoming a hazard while cruising in very heavy seas with very high winds.

 

Ask a ships captain if based on strictly safety if it would be better to be secured with non cement lines to the dock at Port Canaveral or at sea in very severe weather. The Disney and Carnival captains might be a good place to start.

 

The whole safer at sea thing is based on being secured to a dock in unprotected water where the ship is being hammered by the same 30ft waves as in the open ocean. Think of the term safe harbor.

 

Watch this video and see what happens to this MSC ship when high winds kick up in port:

 

 

 

Now imagine that happening to the Freedom of the Seas in Port Canaveral.

 

Yes, the seas were rough and I'm sure it sucked for folks on board who don't like heavy weather, but the ship is build to handle it. It is not built to handle a situation like the You Tube video. The only thing I would fault the crew on was not properly securing the ship for heavy weather.

 

And it's been reported why CCL and Disney did not leave port. It had to do with the maneauvering required to get out.

 

BTW, thanks Sam and Kathy.

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