My public letter to Royal: why do you keep pushing me away?

[cruisindoggie]

Well said.

[ducklite]

I personally do not understand this. Does my children being in a specialty restaurant that I am paying for make your Filet taste worse? I could understand an infant crying but you mention that you have a 7 and 10 year old. So do you not take them out of fear that someone may not like you bringing children into the specialty restaurant? My children will be there, well behaved, enjoying the cruise experience. If that offends anyone in the room they are welcome to use the same door they entered through to leave. Once again it all boils down to people not minding their OWN business.

 

Unfortunately many parents have blinders on when it comes to their children's behavior.

 

Personally I think RCCL should have one designated night per cruise where children are allowed in the specialty restaurants. That same night the kids clubs should be closed to kids so the adults can go in and play. Fair, right?

[Cruisin824]

Unfortunately many parents have blinders on when it comes to their children's behavior.

 

Personally I think RCCL should have one designated night per cruise where children are allowed in the specialty restaurants. That same night the kids clubs should be closed to kids so the adults can go in and play. Fair, right?

 

I do understand the blinders issue but it is cut and dry here. Are they sitting down and eating properly or tossing food all over the place and being rude. There is little grey area in this situation.

 

As for the AO being opent to adults one night....PLEASE DO IT!! One stipulation, these people must participate in social interaction instruction and maybe learning how to share. The last one is important because apparently my children have taken away your toys and you are unwilling to share. (Toys in this situation = RCCL Ships :D)

[honeybee85]

To the OP:

 

You say that Royal is not being loyal to you and many of your complaints center around children. I must ask only this: why is your childless loyalty worth more than a family's loyalty?

 

Mind you, I have no children and would love to vacation without any children around me. But you must understand that when children are not allowed places, their parents feel their loyalty is not being rewarded. And then when children are allowed, the childless feel their loyalty is not being rewarded. Royal had to make a business decision. I would venture to guess they looked into and saw that loyal (or suite level) families were spending more than those without children and the decision was made.

[ryano]

So if you haven't seen something it must not be true?

 

I saw it in a hotel in Boston a couple months ago. .

 

I have seen it on every cruise I have ever been on so far :(

[struther1]

Unfortunately many parents have blinders on when it comes to their children's behavior.

 

Personally I think RCCL should have one designated night per cruise where children are allowed in the specialty restaurants. That same night the kids clubs should be closed to kids so the adults can go in and play. Fair, right?

Maybe the complainers should ask the parents to borrow their blinders? :D

[Loonbeam]

This actually goes along with what I was going to suggest. RCCL is clearly trying to resegment their market, which makes sense in the current economy. RC itself will be the family line and Celebrity the more adult oriented line.

 

What I would suggest is contacting Celebrity's elite status department, explain your concerns nicely and ask if that you can have you entire status transferred over (if they are not doing that already). This will allow you to hopefully keep the perks and progress you have earned in an environment that seems more suited to your longer term goals.

 

On a side note, as a frequent business traveler, I have long since given up assuming any status perks will exist past 6 months and choose accordingly. It's way too easy for them to change the rules in their favor at any time..

 

Great observation!

 

I observed that Elite on Celebrity had better perks than Diamond on RCI, and I was wondering why they didn't equate Elite with Diamond Plus.

 

Answer - as you had pointed out! You hit the nail on the head!

 

And, I think it is working. We are very keen to try Celebrity, after we hit Diamond, and preferably when our kids are older and we get to sail without them!

[Aquahound]

As for all the folks that really don't like being around children-why not a Sandals resort-adults only? But that's a silly idea to some and I do not understand that. I'm not saying it to be rude-just saying if children ruin your vacation-go where they are guaranteed to not be.

 

I won't speak for the op....only myself. I do not have a problem with children. My previous post and my agreeance with the op was nothing more than a localized complaint involving unruly kids and the tendancy for certain parents to allow it to happen. I have never had a cruise ruined due to kids and I will continue to sail RCI because I love their ships. I have, on the other hand, had a cruise severely tarnished due to adult behavior. On that note, anyone who says "a cruise is what you make of it" was not on my NOS cruise out of Civitavecchia (Rome). :rolleyes:

[nikimouse]

I personally do not understand this. Does my children being in a specialty restaurant that I am paying for make your Filet taste worse? I could understand an infant crying but you mention that you have a 7 and 10 year old. So do you not take them out of fear that someone may not like you bringing children into the specialty restaurant? My children will be there, well behaved, enjoying the cruise experience. If that offends anyone in the room they are welcome to use the same door they entered through to leave. Once again it all boils down to people not minding their OWN business.

 

 

like!

 

I dont do loyalty;) im free to choose to vacation and dont like to do the same thing again and again, I like change. Id prefer something new to something Id done befor but that just me. And kids dont bother me because I love kids but I can understand why this op is disappointed with the rules changeing and the loyalty perks

[Loonbeam]

Bruce:

 

Thanks for confirming my suspicions about the whole first-timer issues. I have said for quite a while the only value of the frequent cruiser to the lines is volume, as they are less likely to buy ship excursions, ship stuff, they look actively for price drops, etc...

 

Lawgirl,

 

A basic understanding of how cruise lines really operate might be helpful here.

 

Money is ALWAYS the main theme for us. Everything we do is aimed ONLY at making more of it. Money is the bottom line, the top line, and every line in between. For any large cruise line, making you - as an individual - happy is very low on our priority list. Making large demographic groups happy is another story.

 

Big Cruise line companies like RCI learned long ago to segment their demographics to their different brands in order to more successfully make more money. By tweaking the product - and the rules - they encourage different segments of society to move or stay on different brands. Currently RCCL is going down-market to capture more Middle American families and first timers. This move puts RCCL head to head with Carnival, by far the most financially successful cruise line in cruise history. Currently Celebrity and Azamara are moving up market to capture the upper tier of Middle America, hoping to compete with HAL and the smaller upscale lines.

 

Big Cruise line companies like RCI also learned long ago that first time cruisers spend far more money and complain far less on cruises than repeat cruisers do. There is currently a very large back-log of potential first time cruisers. So long as those people exist, your value as a repeat cruiser is very low. The cruise lines will give you plenty of inexpensive lip service about how much we value your loyalty - but we are not about to spend much money nor effort to bring back someone who will most likely not spend much money on our ships. We give priority to first-time families and children. That's where most of our profit is coming from.

 

You may not like to hear these facts. I certainly am not happy about them. But that is the financial model the major cruise line companies have adopted. I can only suggest that you might use this information to better plan your cruise vacations in order to be a willing participant rather than an unwilling victim.

 

If you want to be seen, considered, and treated as a valuable individual with specific needs, you really need to buy up and out of the Mass Market. In that case RCCL is not for you.

 

If you do not mind being treated as one small cow in an extremely large herd of cows, "Royal" as you call it, is for you. Personally I do not see anything Royal about it.

[Jumbiecruiser]

I personally do not understand this. Does my children being in a specialty restaurant that I am paying for make your Filet taste worse? I could understand an infant crying but you mention that you have a 7 and 10 year old. So do you not take them out of fear that someone may not like you bringing children into the specialty restaurant? My children will be there, well behaved, enjoying the cruise experience. If that offends anyone in the room they are welcome to use the same door they entered through to leave. Once again it all boils down to people not minding their OWN business.

 

As long as you follow the cruise line rules on when children can dine in specialty dining then I have no issues with it. If they are allowed to dine after the specified time, then I will be having a very serious chat with the restuarant manager.

[Aquahound]

This actually goes along with what I was going to suggest. RCCL is clearly trying to resegment their market, which makes sense in the current economy. RC itself will be the family line and Celebrity the more adult oriented line.

 

On all 4 of my Celebrity cruises, the majority of Elite members I met in Michael's Lounge received their status as a result of being D or higher on RCI.

[ducklite]

I do understand the blinders issue but it is cut and dry here. Are they sitting down and eating properly or tossing food all over the place and being rude. There is little grey area in this situation.

 

I disagree. Many (most) parents have a much higher tolerance for louder than necessary volume and antsy kids. Can your kids handle a 3 1/2 hour dinner like the one we just had on board DCL in Remy? There's a reason kids aren't allowed there, and it's a good one. I spent $600 that night between the dining upcharge, corkage for a bottle of wine, a bottle of Champagne, and tips. I was very glad that there were no children (or obnoxious adults) that ruined a sublime experience for us.

 

As for the AO being opent to adults one night....PLEASE DO IT!! One stipulation, these people must participate in social interaction instruction and maybe learning how to share. The last one is important because apparently my children have taken away your toys and you are unwilling to share. (Toys in this situation = RCCL Ships :D)

 

Do they require children to receive social interaction instruction? I doubt it. If they do, based on my experience on RCCL it was highly ineffective. But then there were too many obnoxious adults on that cruise as well for our tastes. I guess the apple didn't fall far from the tree.

[Debde]

I won't speak for the op....only myself. I do not have a problem with children. My previous post and my agreeance with the op was nothing more than a localized complaint involving unruly kids and the tendancy for certain parents to allow it to happen. I have never had a cruise ruined due to kids and I will continue to sail RCI because I love their ships. I have, on the other hand, had a cruise severely tarnished due to adult behavior. On that note, anyone who says "a cruise is what you make of it" was not on my NOS cruise out of Civitavecchia (Rome). :rolleyes:

 

I have read your posts and you are one that always gives your opinion without being very rude or in your face. Someone I would like to meet someday on board.

my comment was based on the many who really seem to hate the fact that children are even on board the ship!!! :confused: I get it is very hard to post an opinion without coming off, for the lack of a better word, mean. I myself try often to check my tone when I have a strong opinion on something.:o

[Jumbiecruiser]

Lawgirl,

 

A basic understanding of how cruise lines really operate might be helpful here.

 

Money is ALWAYS the main theme for us. Everything we do is aimed ONLY at making more of it. Money is the bottom line, the top line, and every line in between. For any large cruise line, making you - as an individual - happy is very low on our priority list. Making large demographic groups happy is another story.

 

Big Cruise line companies like RCI learned long ago to segment their demographics to their different brands in order to more successfully make more money. By tweaking the product - and the rules - they encourage different segments of society to move or stay on different brands. Currently RCCL is going down-market to capture more Middle American families and first timers. This move puts RCCL head to head with Carnival, by far the most financially successful cruise line in cruise history. Currently Celebrity and Azamara are moving up market to capture the upper tier of Middle America, hoping to compete with HAL and the smaller upscale lines.

 

Big Cruise line companies like RCI also learned long ago that first time cruisers spend far more money and complain far less on cruises than repeat cruisers do. There is currently a very large back-log of potential first time cruisers. So long as those people exist, your value as a repeat cruiser is very low. The cruise lines will give you plenty of inexpensive lip service about how much we value your loyalty - but we are not about to spend much money nor effort to bring back someone who will most likely not spend much money on our ships. We give priority to first-time families and children. That's where most of our profit is coming from.

 

You may not like to hear these facts. I certainly am not happy about them. But that is the financial model the major cruise line companies have adopted. I can only suggest that you might use this information to better plan your cruise vacations in order to be a willing participant rather than an unwilling victim.

 

If you want to be seen, considered, and treated as a valuable individual with specific needs, you really need to buy up and out of the Mass Market. In that case RCCL is not for you.

 

If you do not mind being treated as one small cow in an extremely large herd of cows, "Royal" as you call it, is for you. Personally I do not see anything Royal about it.

 

I think that this just about sums it up. Anyone that wants to think otherwise is living in a fantasy world.

[ducklite]

I have read your posts and you are one that always gives your opinion without being very rude or in your face. Someone I would like to meet someday on board.

my comment was based on the many who really seem to hate the fact that children are even on board the ship!!! :confused: I get it is very hard to post an opinion without coming off, for the lack of a better word, mean. I myself try often to check my tone when I have a strong opinion on something.:o

 

As a cruiser without children, I highly suggest Disney. There might be a lot of children onboard, but unless you choose to, you'll never see them!

 

They are in the family pool (DCL does a great job of enforcing the no kids in the adult pool area rules!) or in the kids clubs. They don't allow them in the specialty restaurants. You could almost go an entire cruise without seeing them. And my experience on the two DCL cruises I've been on is that the ones roaming unsupervised by parents or kids club staff are few and far between.

[setsail]

A few points not directed at anyone:p

 

-RCL is not kid free! I have sailed on their first build many years ago and there were children onboard and I just sailed their latest build, again children onboard. When I book a RCL cruise I expect there to be children onboard as they have always welcomed families or anyone with the $'s to book. Bigger ships=more children...

 

-Only the solarium pool/HT's are adult- the solarium is age 16 and up, at least on the ships I have been on

 

- Buying stock for OBC:rolleyes::D......:p.....expect the price to go up and get OBC also..........................

 

- Do people really book cruises on ships with rock walls, zips, flow riders, large lcd screens on deck, minature golf,basketball courts,etc. and expect adult only. Wakeup to 2012

[Trekker954]

Lawgirl:

 

I agree with your entire posting.

 

I never stay in suites, but am a Diamond and can't tell you how many D+ and Pinnacles retreat into the Diamond lounge now to escape the kids in the CL. That would drive me nuts, especially if I paid for a suite. I have two (now grown), but would never think of bringing them in high end resturants, movie theaters, etc. I have seen kids, not often, but on occassion in the Diamond Lounge as well.

 

Sailing RCCI is getting difficult. I cruised three times in one month and each cruise I got on the elevator at least twice to find little ones who hit all the buttons. grrrrrrrrr (that has nothing to do with RCI)...I'm just saying....

 

I feel I have so much invested in RCI C&A not to mention I love the broadway style shows and such it would be hard to start from scratch.

[Cruisin824]

As long as you follow the cruise line rules on when children can dine in specialty dining then I have no issues with it. If they are allowed to dine after the specified time, then I will be having a very serious chat with the restuarant manager.

 

Who hopefully will politely tell you to mind your own business. Unless I missed it I have not seen a curfew on the specialty restaurants. If there is one then fine, otherwise I will be in there enjoying my vacation with my family. As I said before the door is in the same place as when you entered, no one is forcing you to be in the specialty restaurant. The same goes for the ship in general, no one is forcing you to be there.

[spcopps]

OK here goes to Original Poster...first let me say I do have children, 3 in fact ages 7 and under. However, I agree with every word you have said. I like to think my kids are well behaved, DH and I make it a point to keep them under control teach them to be respectful of others, such as stand AWAY from the elevator doors until other's exit, keep voice to a minimal indoors, and you DON'T run and if you happen to bump into someone say excuse me. On the same note, I have seen adults basically run down my kids then look at them as if THEY were in the wrong (yes it happens DH almost decked a guy one time for literally knocking down one of our 3 year olds then looked down at him and shook his head without a word of apology). As for the lounge and children I don't understand why a parent would want them in their during happy hour regardless of the rules, that is why they have the kids program. I know some parent's will blast me for this because the cruise fare is the same regardless of age, however being "bothered" with our children is what we do as parent's, rather on vacation or at home. I always say that being a parent is one job that you don't get vacation although I have seen several parent's who obvious think otherwise. All of this being said, they are kids and do get loud at times. IMO cruise lines, ALL cruise lines, should offer at least a few adult only ships. I know they can't afford to do this with the massive ships, but I think they could fill smaller ships with adults only. I hope one day to be able to take a kids free vacation and know I wouldn't want other's children around me 24/7. Like you stated, the adult only cruises are way to expensive compaired to the "lower" level cruises and some of us just can't afford them.

[AZ ParrotHead]

Our last RCCL cruise was a nine day on Mariner to Europe in May in a JS. We have Emerald status. It will be our last RCCL cruise in the foreseeable future.

 

We just booked our first Celebrity cruise and have had our RCCL status matched to Celebrity's Select Captain's Club tier.

 

We agree with all the previous posts that the RCCL product is being pushed "down market." This is obvious in the entertainment choices, food decline (truly inedible in the MDR on the last cruise), and marketing strategies.

 

The new Celebrity ships (S Class and refurbed M Class) seem to fit our current "DINK" status. When our kids (now 18 and 21) were younger, RCCL was the right choice for us. Now, as we enjoy couples cruising, the slightly more refined Celebrity seems like the more appropriate choice.

 

To be clear, we don't really expect a huge step up in service/quality on Celebrity's Summit in a few weeks. The two lines are, after all, the same company. Just a differently tweaked product better for our tastes.

[Aquahound]

Unless I missed it I have not seen a curfew on the specialty restaurants. If there is one then fine, otherwise I will be in there enjoying my vacation with my family.

 

It used to be fairly clearly advertised that 7:00 was the cutoff for families with children. I haven't really noticed it in writing on board in recent years, so I don't know if the rule still exists. Although, I think the RCI website might still say it.

[galavant3]

Our last RCCL cruise was a nine day on Mariner to Europe in May in a JS. We have Emerald status. It will be our last RCCL cruise in the foreseeable future.

 

We just booked our first Celebrity cruise and have had our RCCL status matched to Celebrity's Select Captain's Club tier.

 

We agree with all the previous posts that the RCCL product is being pushed "down market." This is obvious in the entertainment choices, food decline (truly inedible in the MDR on the last cruise), and marketing strategies.

 

The new Celebrity ships (S Class and refurbed M Class) seem to fit our current "DINK" status. When our kids (now 18 and 21) were younger, RCCL was the right choice for us. Now, as we enjoy couples cruising, the slightly more refined Celebrity seems like the more appropriate choice.

 

To be clear, we don't really expect a huge step up in service/quality on Celebrity's Summit in a few weeks. The two lines are, after all, the same company. Just a differently tweaked product better for our tastes.

 

Same situation here. Kids are older and RCCL really isn't the best match for us anymore. I will be curious to hear what you think of Celebrity.

[frito58]

OK here goes to Original Poster...first let me say I do have children, 3 in fact ages 7 and under. However, I agree with every word you have said. I like to think my kids are well behaved, DH and I make it a point to keep them under control teach them to be respectful of others, such as stand AWAY from the elevator doors until other's exit, keep voice to a minimal indoors, and you DON'T run and if you happen to bump into someone say excuse me. On the same note, I have seen adults basically run down my kids then look at them as if THEY were in the wrong (yes it happens DH almost decked a guy one time for literally knocking down one of our 3 year olds then looked down at him and shook his head without a word of apology). As for the lounge and children I don't understand why a parent would want them in their during happy hour regardless of the rules, that is why they have the kids program. I know some parent's will blast me for this because the cruise fare is the same regardless of age, however being "bothered" with our children is what we do as parent's, rather on vacation or at home. I always say that being a parent is one job that you don't get vacation although I have seen several parent's who obvious think otherwise. All of this being said, they are kids and do get loud at times. IMO cruise lines, ALL cruise lines, should offer at least a few adult only ships. I know they can't afford to do this with the massive ships, but I think they could fill smaller ships with adults only. I hope one day to be able to take a kids free vacation and know I wouldn't want other's children around me 24/7. Like you stated, the adult only cruises are way to expensive compaired to the "lower" level cruises and some of us just can't afford them.

 

Well I thinks unreal for people to think kids should be "perfect" kids wil kids . I think what drives most people nuts is the parents that are , hey I'm on vacation so I really dont care what they do. There are wonderful parents and wonderful kids. I live next to 6 kids :eek::pwe just moved here a couple of years ago , had to sell our house in the counrty because of my health , but these are the most well mannerd kids you would ever meet . Are they ornery yes a couple of them are , but i laugh its harmless stuff . But there is ornery and there are kids that are just malicious and out of control.

[blacksheep2]

It is so easy to see both sides of the issue-We have sailed Royal and Carnival—both lines have the same issues but to different degrees-we spent the last two cruises on Carnival with friends who did have 12 and 18 year old children with them-we are now back to Royal and vacationing with other friends-not that either issue was terrible but just wasn’t the way we wished to spend our vacation. Your tolerance level changes when you do not “have” to do something—they were not my responsibility –so walk away—the cruise line was not the only one so ---walk away. Let’s all play nice in the sandbox!

We are not to the Diamond level so the perks do not mean so much to us-and even if we were we probably wouldn’t care-we enjoy doing what we want to, when we want to. So if we decide to dress up for formal night we do but if not-- dress down and go somewhere beside the MDR to eat. But if someone enjoys dressing up let them be. When we cruise with others in a group we defer to those who may not have cruised before or want to dress and go with the flow-it’s not a deal breaker.

When adults misbehave it is almost worse than children-but then step back and ask yourself have I ever been in that category? I can honestly say that on some of our cruises we had approached it –we were the fun group but some people may have found us offensive-thank God we grew up and out of that---until next time! After all we are on vacation!

We all can’t agree on everything but commonsense and respect can go a long way in making everyone have a better experience.