Costa Concordia SINKING

[GioRaf]

In italy you can be sent to jail before sentence only on specific charges and under some circustances.

 

Of course killing someone its one of them, so this could be the case, but there need also one or more of 3 other conditions (circustances).

 

1) danger of leave the country

2) opportunity to alterate the evidences

3) opportunity to do again the crime

 

the 3rd of course its not the case, may be also the second at this point, but the persecutor said to the judge that Schettino could leave the country.

[umieesa]

The commandant, who may be the most obnoxious man on the planet, has told the captain to climb up a rope that people were climbing down. How do you do that? How do you even get close to the rope if there is a boat in the way?

 

I listened to it and thought the exact opposite. The commandant was in a desperate situation trying to help, and here he is talking to the captain who has abandoned ship and done the exact opposite. You hear the anger and desperation in his voice, and the captain is just really monotone. I'm not sure if getting back on the ship via rope makes much sense, but ultimately, he should've never left the ship in the first place if still that many passengers were remaining.

 

In the end, he will have to live with himself, plus the shame, of knowing how many deaths were a result of his choices. That alone may be a comforting revenge ;)

[Canadian Karebear]

It probably won't be the cruise lines that will eliminate it, it will be their insurers who will demand that they eliminate it.

 

Or exclude it from the policy. They don't demand things usually, they just decide to exclude things. It's the way insurance works. We didn't have alot of exclusions when I started in the Industry but each claim that's investigated may warrant a new exclusion for the acts of others in a particular way.

Marine Insurance is what is called a Manuscript policy. Some of the wordings are standard, and some are "scripted" by the Insurer and Re-Insurers to avoid paying out claims that they feel they cannot be responsible for.

[tcocktail]

I totally agree with you that the loss of life is tragic and like yourself my heart goes out to the family and friends.

 

I would sail Costa again having travelled with a few cruise companys Costa have new ships visit exciting ports and are good value for money.

 

We are due to sail on the Costa Favolosa on Friday the 13th April we have no intention of cancelling

 

I really hope that Costa will not fold, having travelled with them before they are a great brand, shame one mans actions as caused this terrible tragic event

 

This is going to be a hard pill for the parent company to swallow. Carnival may have to dissolve Costa in order to save the stock price. It has already dropped $4.74 today. It's hard to tell what will happen in this economy. I am sure the will be looking at booking and cancelations. I am sure this wil affect the industry at least for a couple of weeks not only Carnival.

[Davyjonesrugrat]

yes - and there is a VERY FINE LINE between calling PanPan and calling Mayday . That's why we have Captains - to determine where that line is located.

 

Another thing - Mayday would/should be called before an order to abandon ship. Mayday by definition means - come immediately, we are in imminent danger of sinking - not "we have sunk "

 

Barry

The term 'Mayday' means 'we are in grave and imminent danger'

 

As yet I can not state fully when the Distress (Mayday state) was initiated. With the GMDSS System nowadays there is no longer a need to send an 'SOS in morse, its a case of pushing a button on the DSC, this automatically sends your name, mmsi, position and nature of your distress, you then listen out on the appropriate distress frequency/channel.

 

Until I see concrete proof of the alert being sent (I have been informed that there is AIS pictures of ships amending their course towards the casualty though I have not seen these) or the time it was sent I cant say when it was or not done.

 

rgds

[FinlandGuy]

Thank you Gio! After having listened to the taped conversation, I somehow got concerned about the mental stability of the captain and that he might harm himself. But that's only my personal opinion.

 

In italy you can be sent to jail before sentence only on specific charges and under some circustances.

 

Of course killing someone its one of them, so this could be the case, but there need also one or more of 3 other conditions (circustances).

 

1) danger of leave the country

2) opportunity to alterate the evidences

3) opportunity to do again the crime

 

the 3rd of course its not the case, may be also the second at this point, but the persecutor said to the judge that Schettino could leave the country.

[TheBestIsYetToCome]

What they should do and what they actually do are sometimes unrelated. We don't know, at least at this point, what was said...we don't even know if anyone was looking at the paper charts or the captain was relying on one individual to watch the instruments and guide the ship....we actually don't know very much at all....

 

I guess I'm just wondering if what you're suggesting is even possible. How would anyone even get this sort of ship to "go over to the mainland" or "get close to the coast" without inputting an order for a precise course (even if its wrong)? I'm just not seeing how a misunderstanding amongst the bridge crew over terms such as "mainland" or "coast" would be at play here.

[Davyjonesrugrat]

It has just been reported on BBC News that the Captain has admitted that he was in command when the ship hit the rocky outlet!

 

Of course he was in Command of the ship as he had been since it left Civitavecchia!! that does not mean he actually had the control stick in his hand at that moment in time .... :rolleyes:

To explain this a bit more......

 

1. At all times the Captain is in command of his vessel.

2. The Captain does not steer a ship, he has a crew to do that

3. When the Captain is else where the officer of the watch has control of the ship but the Captain is to be informed of any problems or such

4. When on the bridge the OOW still has the control, however he may be relieved at any stage by the Capt.

5. It is apparent from his statement that the Captain was in commanc on the bridge when the incident occurred.

 

This is what he stated, he was in command of the bridge when the vessel hit

 

rgds

:)

[Isklaar]

To explain this a bit more......

 

1. At all times the Captain is in command of his vessel.

2. The Captain does not steer a ship, he has a crew to do that

3. When the Captain is else where the officer of the watch has control of the ship but the Captain is to be informed of any problems or such

4. When on the bridge the OOW still has the control, however he may be relieved at any stage by the Capt.

5. It is apparent from his statement that the Captain was in commanc on the bridge when the incident occurred.

 

This is what he stated, he was in command of the bridge when the vessel hit

 

rgds

:)

 

Thanks for the explanation. I was just about to ask what 'in command' actually meant, having assumed it literally meant he was 'hands on' and steering at that particular moment. Thanks for clarification.

[jopocop]

A 20 degree list was extreme. To walk with that extent of grade is huge and would produce great difficulty for many passengers that are often seniors.

The elevators were not working and one can imagine the wheelchair bound and handicapped in walking, etc.

 

We think of a cruise ship as a nice stable hotel, but, then, reality suddently sits in and everyone is now in an environment that is strange and unreal. That produces bad decisions and indecisiveness and panic, etc.

 

The fact that so many were one way or the other able to get off in time before the big list and sink, was miraculous indeed.

[Gwa123]

I know this probably seems to be a poor decision by one man, yes I agree he took some terrible decisions with awful outcomes! The question I have though is this a systemic decline in standards throught the industry in favour of profit?

 

We have all seen the dumbing down of service standards and this includes lifeboat drills and the ever increasing need to provide profit

[ghstudio]

I guess I'm just wondering if what you're suggesting is even possible. How would anyone even get this sort of ship to "go over to the mainland" or "get close to the coast" without inputting an order for a precise course (even if its wrong)? I'm just not seeing how a misunderstanding amongst the bridge crew over terms such as "mainland" or "coast" would be at play here.

 

Turn right 30 degrees when we reach 300 meters from the mainland" is not the same as "stay close to the coast". He may have been using the words that are in whatever law states you must be 300 meters from the mainland....

 

It is common to say "turn 20 degrees port 50 meters past the center channel marker". In this case "mainland is not as well defined as "center channel marker" which is where the confusion might have been.

[Clar5]

I dont know if this has been mentioned in this thread (internet is being slow right now, weather related), but the latest update on MSNBC is saying that the captain was in trouble once before sailing too close to shore in another part of Italy.

 

If thats the case, shouldn't have something have been done back then (IE reprimand or firing him). It seems to me that Costa gave him one more chance too many.

[Davyjonesrugrat]

I don't mean to be close minded but I fail to see the similarities with a teenager crashing daddy's Porsche and a 52-year-old (seasoned?) captain responsible for a half a billion dollar vessel and over 4,000 passengers and crew members. Would we have overlooked Captain 'Sully' Sullenberger actions if he would have ditched his plane and swam across the Hudson to safety leaving his crew and passengers stranded to fend for themselves? I think not!

The point he was making was in relation to my post when I was explaining the what the captain was going through during the period.

 

rgds

[carib123]

I guess the Concordia is about the same size as the Carnival Conquest I was on last May. 112,000 tons I think. Sometimes the pictures are deceiving since there is nothing to compare the size too. Do we know yet why the captain steered the ship so close to the rocks in the first place?

 

 

if you are wanting to compare the Concordia then you need to look at the Carnival Splendor, which sails out of Long Beach. They both have identical footprints. Originally both were being built for Costa, but Carnival in need of another ship got one of the ships and with a few modifications she became the Splendor. Concordia and Splendor are sisters.

 

As an aside the Splendor is the ship that lost power and drifted off the coast of California for almost a week last year.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnival_Splendor

[GioRaf]

I think Costa have some responsability on this disaster (just my opinion).

 

Inside the company at some level, for sure someone know (from the tracks) that some ships on some circustances are not doing the right course.

 

If they do not know what some capitains had done, then they are responsibile for not taking any action that could prevent the disaster by getting this kind of informations, if they know its even worst, this mean they fully share the responsability.

 

Also i have some concern on the processing of choice of capitain, one of the things that should be carefully done its to see how is the candidate reaction under heavy pressure, i know this can be done, i dont know if the company did it.

 

Most people said that under such kind of pressure, what he done could be understandable, but this can be acceptable if we are talking about normal people doing normal things.

 

Could you imagine what kind of selection its made for astronauts from the psicological point of view, but they carry at worst 7 people (such as shuttles).

 

The commander selection for a ship who carry 4000 people should be even more strong.

 

Would be interesting know opinion of other friends here about this point of view.

[mamamzee]

"Innocent until proven guilty" is a LEGAL requirement for use in court. It has nothing to do with forming our own opinions.

[bazzaw]

 

That is like saying that all women are helpless, or all Native American Indians have a drinking problem or all Hispanics work in the service industry. You cannot make those generalizations.

 

 

 

More political correctness! He/she can and has made those generalisations.

 

YOU cannot tell people not to. Do you NEVER make generalisations about anything ever?? You would not be human if you didn't.

 

Barry

[bazzaw]

 

I hope the cruise lines learn from this and evaluate potential captains not only on their maritime knowledge but on their EQ as well. There needs to be personality profiling so that someone who likes taking risks (as this captain himself said in an interview in 2010) is quite simply NOT allowed to be the master of a cruise ship. I really think this is important and the cruiselines should hire the right psychologists to test all potential captains.

 

Absolutely!!! - VERY important

 

Barry

[AUDirt]

if you are wanting to compare the Concordia then you need to look at the Carnival Splendor, which sails out of Long Beach. They both have identical footprints. Originally both were being built for Costa, but Carnival in need of another ship got one of the ships and with a few modifications she became the Splendor. Concordia and Splendor are sisters.

 

As an aside the Splendor is the ship that lost power and drifted off the coast of California for almost a week last year.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnival_Splendor

 

Right now it looks to be an unfortunate coincidence. Still, this design has to jump right to the top of any list of most troubled ship designs.

[Globetotter]

Well, that's one thing I find confusing and that's why I'd love to hear the testimony of the other officers.

 

The commandant, who may be the most obnoxious man on the planet, has told the captain to climb up a rope that people were climbing down. How do you do that? How do you even get close to the rope if there is a boat in the way?

 

I just don't quite get what's going on.

 

Why would people be climbing down the side if they could walk to the remaining lifeboat, and if they couldn't, how could the captain walk to them? Is that why he and his officers launched the last boat? So they could reach them from the water? If so, why did they end up sailing to the island?

 

Last I heard, the judge had decided to keep the captain in custody pending his decision. Has that changed? Was he charged?

 

Please, have a look here and you'll see what the situation was (look at around minute 2.30 and forward. This video has been done by guardia di finanza (a kind of police we have in Italy), it's a great video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wwmz9LN8wcE&feature=player_embedded#!

 

It was a rope ladder, not a rope, and it would have been possible to climb just interrupting the down flow for a few minutes. It was not possible to use lifeboats anymore because the ship was on one side. They (captain and officers) were not the ones reaching the passengers, they were just spectators watching safely from the boat, it was the rescuers that were reaching the passengers from water.

But I guess that it wouldn't have made any difference having THAT kind of captain coordinating the rescue...

[FinlandGuy]

I would be interested to know if there are any tests for captains on how they react to extreme stress situations+

I'm thinking if it would have been possible for the captain to delegate the rescue operations when noticing that he wasn't able to handle the situation? Of course it is usually difficult to do that kind of self-assessment in that situation (psychosis) and it doesn't take out the responsibility.

Also i have some concern on the processing of choice of capitain, one of the things that should be carefully done its to see how is the candidate reaction under heavy pressure, i know this can be done, i dont know if the company did it.

 

Most people said that under such kind of pressure, what he done could be understandable, but this can be acceptable if we are talking about normal people doing normal things.

[glrounds]

if you are wanting to compare the Concordia then you need to look at the Carnival Splendor, which sails out of Long Beach. They both have identical footprints. Originally both were being built for Costa, but Carnival in need of another ship got one of the ships and with a few modifications she became the Splendor. Concordia and Splendor are sisters.

 

As an aside the Splendor is the ship that lost power and drifted off the coast of California for almost a week last year.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnival_Splendor

 

I've cruised the SPLENDOR twice, before the fire and after, and after having looked at a promotional video for the CONCORDIA, I can say they're virtually identical with some differences in the public places (the aft Lido deck in particular with a cover on the CONCORDIA whereas the SPLENDOR its all open to the sea). Of course they're decorated differently, and the CONCORDIA much better IMHO.

 

The SPLENDOR and CONCORDIA are much larger than the CONQUEST class, although they have many similarities, but the open Aft Lido Deck on the SPLENDOR is one I particularly like, very much like the Aft Lido deck on the SPIRIT class. The entire Lido Deck on the CONQUEST class is surrounded with steel and glass. Not as inviting to the sea like the SPLENDOR or SPIRIT class. Just my opinion.

 

[Milaandra]

I listened to it and thought the exact opposite. The commandant was in a desperate situation trying to help,

 

Wow, really? I thought he was domineering, confrontational and wouldn't listen. If I was on the other end of that, I'd have hung up in the first 2 minutes!

 

Maybe that's why they don't give me command of a luxury liner... :D

[foxontherun]

It probably won't be the cruise lines that will eliminate it, it will be their insurers who will demand that they eliminate it.

 

You're 100% right about that. We just 12 days on the Solstice in the Med November 2011 and there were no sideways gliding departures except Venice (but even then we were in the middle of the "lane") We headed straight out from port, stayed in middle of the deep lanes and saw 2-3 other cruise ships doing the same thing. It's a well worn route for many good reasons.