Costa Concordia SINKING

[SomeBeach]

REMINDER: Geraldo Rivera reports on the Concordia @ 10:00pm EST tonight "Tragedy at Sea" on Fox News.

 

So far it's already better than last nights show. Hope it stays that way, providing information relevant to Concordia.

[IRL_Joanie]

18 minutes into Fox News Special Tragedy at Sea with Geraldo Rivera and I have to say this is RIVETING!!!! He is doing ONE HELL of a GREAT job laying everything out!!

 

OK going back to the show.

 

Joanie

[kwbound]

18 minutes into Fox News Special Tragedy at Sea with Geraldo Rivera and I have to say this is RIVETING!!!! He is doing ONE HELL of a GREAT job laying everything out!!

 

OK going back to the show.

 

Joanie[/FO]

 

Agree. Much better than last nights show.

[IRL_Joanie]

To UMDCruiseProf....Just a word of Thanks!!!

 

You spoke for so many of us and did it well:) Thank you!!

 

To deckofficer and so many others, another thank you for all of your posts, whether technical or just a question. Allmost all of the posts have been extremely helpful in either answering the questions we have, or just in asking what some of us have not felt the confidence to ask.

 

To all, Hubby had me do a test this afternoon to se eif we could recreate a simulation of whether the ship could have floated with a huge hole in its hull....

 

We placed a long gash in a styrofoam bowl and placed a small rock from our garden into part of the opening and then floated it in water. The bowl took on water just up to the top of the gash I'd cut into the bowl. It did not sink anylower until I tried to turn it to the left and then it sank.

 

Not a very calculated or scientific test, but in laymens needs it showed if he had not turned the ship back towards the island....

 

Joanie

[jcl410]

I've been pondering the similarities and differences between the Costa Concordia grounding, and the grounding of the Monarch of the Seas in 1998:

 

(here's a link to Monarch report - http://marinecasualty.com/documents/monarch.pdf )

 

The Monarch of the Seas(MOS) had made an unscheduled late night stop off of St. Marrten to drop off a sick passenger. As the ship left Great Harbor on the way to Martinique, she grounded on a reef 1.5 miles south of the island due to a navigation error...

 

0130 - MOS hit the reef ; 0132 -Captain on the bridge; 0133- engineer reported flooding; 0135 - all WT doors closed; 0140-0145 contacted RCCL HQ and St. maarten port; 0147- Sound general alarm; orders passengers to muster stations; 0215 - all lifeboats ready for embarkation; 0220 all pasengers at muster station; 0235 -ship ran aground on sand bank in Great harbor... all passengers sent to shore via shore tenders (process took about 4 hours)

 

 

What I found interesting was the time it took to get all the passengers mustered; 40 minutes. Of course, in that case it was the middle of the night. Also the MOS finally grounded on a sand bank, not a rocky underwater ledge.

 

 

The big difference though appears to be the fact that the captain and officers were able to correctly process the information and realize quickly that the ship was mortally wounded (they came to find a 130 ft gash 3 feet wide in the keel)

 

Aloha,

 

John

[UMDCruiseProf]

To UMDCruiseProf....Just a word of Thanks!!!

 

You spoke for so many of us and did it well:) Thank you!!

 

I appreciate the positive feedback (from many folks - thanks)... I probably should've stayed clear but that particular post just torqued me, you know?

 

To all, Hubby had me do a test this afternoon to se eif we could recreate a simulation of whether the ship could have floated with a huge hole in its hull....

 

My daughter did something similar in lego... with a cowardly lego mini figure captain and blond haired mystery lego mini figure woman. Justice was issued out quickly to the lego captain... and it was severe. Let's hope the real world follows suit.

[Cuizer2]

http://gcaptain.com/gcaptains-john-konrad-narrates-the-final-maneuvers-of-the-costa-concordia-video/?37941

 

Narrative and video based on AIS data. Also the comments offer further insight from other mariners.

 

Here is my take from that video - and I welcome any comments ...

 

The captain said he hit an uncharted rock. Ignoring for the moment that the rock is noted on the chart in the video, as the rear of the ship clears the rock the captain turns the ship to the left to cause the stern of the ship to move the right in an effort to avoid that rock. We know it is night time and that the rock is under the water. So ...

 

Why is he trying to avoid a rock that he claims he doesn't know is there???

[SomeBeach]

Here is my take from that video - and I welcome any comments ...

 

The captain said he hit an uncharted rock. Ignoring for the moment that the rock is noted on the chart in the video, as the rear of the ship clears the rock the captain turns the ship to the left to cause the stern of the ship to move the right in an effort to avoid that rock. We know it is night time and that the rock is under the water. So ...

 

Why is he trying to avoid a rock that he claims he doesn't know is there???

 

I believe he said that he visually saw (white) foam from the water hitting the rock and tried to take evasive measures.

What I don't get is that the Captain was supposedly at dinner when the ship struck the rock. Or did someone on the Bridge finally realize that they were on a disaster course, notify the Captain and he arrived in time to see that but too late to avoid it.

[Feelin' Nauti']

This entire thread has turned into a witch hunt, fueled by tabloid headlines, and an apparent desire to search out, or invent the most sordid details possible.

Regular cruisers are obviously interested to know what happened, fearing for their own future safety, and it's natural that people want to know exactly what happened.

It's a control mechanism - people feel if they know exactly what went on, it would help them recognise, and therefore deal with future situations they may find themselves in. Hopefully no-one here will ever find themselves in that kind of predicament.

I have to beg to differ with you about cruisers fearing for their own future safety.

Experiences cruisers would say they that this or any incident would not deter them from cruising again nor put fear in them. That it is safer to be on a luxury liner than in a aircraft.

Even so, the ocean is a big, wild, deep, unpredictable place, and there are risks. That is why you must be a vigilant traveler.

 

I do agree with you about people who are following this story, re: to find out the truth, how Carnival will deal with this situation and the changes they are planning to make, what will happen to the Captain, so on and so forth.

[astrocruises]

I was checking other threads, and I just have to comment.

 

What is with this intense hatred toward Domnica Cemortan???

 

Just a guess, but could be that some people thought that the captain might have been showing off for her (as well as for the head waiter, and his former captain who turned out wasn't even on the island) when the accident occurred. And while she can't be blamed for being at the helm, some people think that some attractive women, whether they admit it or not, know the effect they have on the actions of a certain type of man, such as one who likes to show off for attractive women by driving fast and taking chances.

 

I didn't say it was fair, but it's one theory.:)

[EVALUATOR]

Here is my take from that video - and I welcome any comments ...

 

The captain said he hit an uncharted rock. Ignoring for the moment that the rock is noted on the chart in the video, as the rear of the ship clears the rock the captain turns the ship to the left to cause the stern of the ship to move the right in an effort to avoid that rock. We know it is night time and that the rock is under the water. So ...

 

Why is he trying to avoid a rock that he claims he doesn't know is there???

 

In court records, he said he saw whitecaps on the rocks. He said the ship was going to hit the dead on with the bow. He said he turned full starboard and reversed all engines. He never said anything about turning left.

 

Also, the gps simulation suggests he turned left, or port, to get off the "submerged" rocks.

 

If the ship was traveling at 15 knots, that's approx. 20 feet per second. The gash in the ship is approx. 165' long. So the ship was in contact with the reef for around 8.25 seconds. With 1 second realization time, and 1 second reaction time, that leaves 6.25 seconds contact time to actually execute any turn. I don't think any manual turn towards port to miss the rocks or minimize damage ever happened. I do think the ship hitting the rock stopped the slide of the rear, but it wasn't from anything the captain did.

 

Also, if the engines were reversed, the vibration of the ship from that alone would make sensing the impact difficult to notice and react.

 

Of course he said he fell into the lifeboat.

[Cruise ship fan]

One thing I am wondering is how the hole got where it was. With the stabilisers out when it hit the rock they too should of been damaged if not fully removed. With the stabilisers still out and the hole in the ship being at about the same height, the only way it could of got there was if the ship was turning sharply starboard at the time of impact.

 

 

NEVERMIND

[cruiserfanfromct]

That could very well have happened. Did he leave the second in command to manually or automatically navigate while he was at dinner? Is he taking the flack for something a junior officer did? Some thoughts to ponder.

I believe he said that he visually saw (white) foam from the water hitting the rock and tried to take evasive measures.

What I don't get is that the Captain was supposedly at dinner when the ship struck the rock. Or did someone on the Bridge finally realize that they were on a disaster course, notify the Captain and he arrived in time to see that but too late to avoid it.

[Charles4515]

I have to beg to differ with you about cruisers fearing for their own future safety.

Experiences cruisers would say they that this or any incident would not deter them from cruising again nor put fear in them. That it is safer to be on a luxury liner than in a aircraft.

Even so' date=' the ocean is a big, wild, deep, unpredictable place, and there are risks. That is why you must be a vigilant traveler.

 

I do agree with you about people who are following this story, re: to find out the truth, how Carnival will deal with this situation and the changes they are planning to make, what will happen to the Captain, so on and so forth.[/quote']

 

What we should be saying is that an investigation be made and then changes made. At this moment we can't say cruising is safe.

 

It is true that the ocean is big but there is no excuse for this event, the deaths of 30 people and the loss of a 500 million dollar cruise ship.

[Cuizer2]

In court records, he said he saw whitecaps on the rocks. He said the ship was going to hit the dead on with the bow. He said he turned full starboard and reversed all engines. He never said anything about turning left.

 

Also, the gps simulation suggests he turned left, or port, to get off the "submerged" rocks.

 

If the ship was traveling at 15 knots, that's approx. 20 feet per second. The gash in the ship is approx. 165' long. So the ship was in contact with the reef for around 8.25 seconds. With 1 second realization time, and 1 second reaction time, that leaves 6.25 seconds contact time to actually execute any turn. I don't think any manual turn towards port to miss the rocks or minimize damage ever happened. I do think the ship hitting the rock stopped the slide of the rear, but it wasn't from anything the captain did.

 

Also, if the engines were reversed, the vibration of the ship from that alone would make sensing the impact difficult to notice and react.

 

Of course he said he fell into the lifeboat.

 

Thank you for your comment. However ...

 

1 knot = 6,076 feet

15 knots/hr = 91,140 feet/hr

91,140 ft/hr = 25.3 ft/sec

 

1 knot = 1.15 miles

1 mile/hr = 1.4667 ft/sec

[Cuizer2]

One thing I am wondering is how the hole got where it was. With the stabilisers out when it hit the rock they too should of been damaged if not fully removed. With the stabilisers still out and the hole in the ship being at about the same height, the only way it could of got there was if the ship was turning sharply starboard at the time of impact.

 

 

NEVERMIND

 

According to the simulation the ship was in a starboard turn at the time of the collision.

[Cuizer2]

What we should be saying is that an investigation be made and then changes made. At this moment we can't say cruising is safe.

 

It is true that the ocean is big but there is no excuse for this event, the deaths of 30 people and the loss of a 500 million dollar cruise ship.

 

Just because one captain on one ship did something wrong does not mean that cruising is not safe. You have to look at the overall safety record for the last ten years, not the overall safety record on January 13, 2012.

[Uniall]

I was checking other threads, and I just have to comment.

 

What is with this intense hatred toward Domnica Cemortan???

 

Not only is there no evidence she was anything more than she claims to be, but really...even if she was doing every senior officer (including the female officers) and half the passengers...what does that have to do with anything?

 

Others have described their stories of how they helped out in the crisis are are praised as heroes. She describes how she helped out in the crisis and the reaction is virulent!

 

I just don't get it!

 

This entire thread has turned into a witch hunt, fueled by tabloid headlines, and an apparent desire to search out, or invent the most sordid details possible.

 

Regular cruisers are obviously interested to know what happened, fearing for their own future safety, and it's natural that people want to know exactly what happened. It's a control mechanism - people feel if they know exactly what went on, it would help them recognise, and therefore deal with future situations they may find themselves in. Hopefully no-one here will ever find themselves in that kind of predicament.

 

I disagree with your characterizing the posts as a "witch hunt."

 

Most of the posts (including mine) regarding Domnica involve the same discussions that occur in conferences between investigators and prosecutors. It may seem jaded (gallows humor is the old term) but it reflects a reasonable reaction to known facts that create reasonable suspicion that she may have been stowed away and particpated in and/or witnessed causes of the tragedy and early cover up attempts:

(eg. she was not listed on the manifest as a passenger or crew andmay have been smuggled aboard by senior officer(s), she was a former "dancer"/cruise rep from previous cruises, reportedly she was drinking and dining with the Captain before, during and/or after the collision, she was on the bridge when the the delay in abandon ship occured, she was instructed to leave the bridge and go to a life boat by an "officer", she was the first to defend the Captain to the media, et, etc,)

In my before retirement career, she would be first on my list to call before a grand jury investigating the matter. Using the modern term, she is a "Person Of Extreme Interest" in the very least as a first hand witness.

[mcrcruiser]

We have done 53 cruises & will continue to do more cruises:D . That being said we would not sail on Costa :eek:.

 

Our cruise line of choice is Celebrity & we are booked on Celebrity Century for the 15 night Oct 20,2012 R/T Hawaii cruise from our home port of San Diego:D .

 

Cruising is safer than other modes of transportation;) .What we do want to see is upgrading the muster drills & other passenger safety measures as are needed :)

[EVALUATOR]

Thank you for your comment. However ...

 

1 knot = 6,076 feet

15 knots/hr = 91,140 feet/hr

91,140 ft/hr = 25.3 ft/sec

 

1 knot = 1.15 miles

1 mile/hr = 1.4667 ft/sec

 

Your right. I was using the old 1.5 fps per mph. He had even less contact time with the rock.

 

According to the simulation the ship was in a starboard turn at the time of the collision.

 

The simulation guessed he turned back to port after hitting the rock in some kind of attempt to minimize damage. I tend to think not.

[Ozcruiser1]

Some interesting first hand accounts

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9029866/Costa-Concordia-the-inside-story-of-the-night-of-Friday-January-13.html

 

Thanks for the link Milaandra.

Many passengers in this article speak of life boats getting stuck and being unable to be be lowered, again I think a simple modification to the ship-side of life boats to incorporate a long rubber roller along the bumper would allow a smoother decline down the "high" side of the ship when it is listing.

They speak of cables getting tangled. I can only suggest that as the life boat starts to lower, the side of the life raft creates too much friction on the side of the ship, the lowering cables keep unwinding, but as the life boat is now stuck, and the cables are still unwinding and are now slack and prone to tangling, then the weight or shift of friction allows the life boat to "fall" or "bounce" down the side of the ship until the cables hold taught. Earlier video shows this sort of thing, with passengers screaming as it would feel as if the life boat would be in free fall.

 

The media article gives some interesting insight into evacuation conditions, BUT then in the last lines shows media magic by saying .......Witnesses claimed Mr Tievoli, standing on the bridge, said to the captain just before the accident happened: “Careful, we are extremely close to the shore.”

 

As if anyone who was on the bridge at the time of the incident would be making statements to media outlets at this time as they would surely be vital to the investigation...I'm sure investigators would love to know who these "witnesses" are and I'm sure they would be advised NOT to speak to media.

 

Truth, speculation and media spin get tangled in this tragic event.

[silverfoxcruiser]

Honestly... it's your kind of post that has kept me from posting here for the 2+ years I have been reading the forums on CC. How is it that your rude manner is any better than what you accuse this poster of doing? How is your mean spirited attitude making this a better thread... and how is it on topic?

 

And get this... I actually like the guy's technical posts and feel they have brought something positive to the thread here. Sure he seemed like he made a few missteps with the regulars here initially... but let he/she who is without forum sin cast the first negative post, right? Am I to assume in the 1000+ posts you have made that you have not broken or bent some forum rules (heck... to be frank... your post above is probably in violated of forum rules as I read them) or been off topic? Am I to assume that when you first started coming here you just blended in with no frictions? That you immediately understood the posting culture?

 

And as for whether he's been on a cruise or not... last I checked there was no "been on a cruise" requirements to participate here. So what's that all about? That some posters are irrelevant because they haven't cruised? Really? Are you proposing a cruise experience minimum to post or participate here? I certainly hope not.

 

So... respectfully... here's some unsolicited advice: tone it down. If you don't groove on someone's post how about just letting it go? If it's a violation of rules then press the red triangle and let those responsible for enforcing the rules do their job. No one need a self appointed forum sheriff. At the very least spare the rest of us your off topic, vitriolic, and grumpy rants. Get an email from deckoffice and swap nastiness one on one instead of dragging the rest of us into it.

 

THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS!! Silver

[degarr]

"Prosecutors from Grosseto, the mainland city closest to Giglio, have unequivocally laid responsibility on Schettino, calling his behavior "reckless" and "inexcusable," and want to keep him in jail because they fear he will flee or try to influence witnesses.

 

Chief prosecutor Francesco Verusio said he "does not understand" the decision of a reviewing judge to release Schettino to house arrest and has challenged it in higher court."

I had not read that anywhere on this thread before

[deckofficer]

I have learned a lot about the cruise industry on the CC forum, and has been for the most part an enjoyable experience. I'm sorry for getting off on the wrong foot, my mistake, but it looks like every time I post now, there are too many "red triangle" clicks for the mods and admin to ignore, and I'm hanging by a thread from being banned. I don't want that to happen so will just read for awhile and enjoy further learning about this industry.

 

Thanks All ~ Happy Cruising

[Rancher Dave]

"Prosecutors from Grosseto, the mainland city closest to Giglio, have unequivocally laid responsibility on Schettino, calling his behavior "reckless" and "inexcusable," and want to keep him in jail because they fear he will flee or try to influence witnesses.

 

Chief prosecutor Francesco Verusio said he "does not understand" the decision of a reviewing judge to release Schettino to house arrest and has challenged it in higher court."

 

I had not read that anywhere on this thread before

 

I think a lot of folks were in shock over the decision to remand him to his house. Of course if factual information comes forth that he and the young lady were more than just co-workers, I am sure living at home with his wife could become quite a difficult situation...he may just prefer to be in the clink then.