Costa Concordia SINKING

[BalconyBumz]

Reading that transcript of the phone conversation and then actually hearing it and his voice, wow, it's even worse hearing it. He sounds not right and so like a chicken.

[fin]

15 knots is a little over 17 mph.

[BalconyBumz]

If this would have been a total accident like a mechanical error and he would have stayed on board and took care of his duties and the people, things would possibly be much different for his future, but instead, it seems he made the choice to change the course pushing the boundaries to show off, and made the choice to leave the ship early and made the choice to not go back on. ALL poor choices that he made across the board, so I cannot feel sorry for him one bit. It did not need to happen. Unless something changes factually, I do hope he goes to prison for this absolute uncalled for recklessness. So so sad for what he caused and the lives lost that didn't need to be. Thankful for all the people that helped and all that survived.

[glrounds]

To try and explain the basic pricipals of stability I have put forward a suggestion on what might have occured.

 

When alongside a ship whilst loading has to ensure that the weight is evenly distributed, care is taken make sure both sides receive the same weight at appx the same time. . In the case of the Concordia, a sudden and drastic breach occurred whilst undertaking a sail past of the island of Giglio. The breach on the port side allowed an ingress of water into the ship into what may have been the Engine room, the generator room and the engine control room (As indicated by the officer sent by the Capt to see what damage has been caused by the contact)

 

The ship was now beginning to list to port, how much the water tight integrity had been impaired I cant say but to possibly try and compensate for the ingress of water from the port side and to stabilise the ship tanks on the starboard side might have been flooded to try and level the ship out. The next problem may have arisen when they dropped the anchor and stopped the forward movement of the ship and to both turn the ship around and prepare for abandoning the ship.

 

With the ship now swinging around the water inside the vessel is now moving from the port side to the starboard side, this with the additional tanks flooded caused the vessel to start listing on the starboard side.

 

The Engine room, as far as I can gather (On most ships) covers the ship from side to side, if this is flooded then its the full compartment. If you look at some of the pictures taken when the boat is still afloat you can see that the concordia is well down at the stern, you can see this by following the line of Port holes/scuttles aft and see how they disappear underwater. Water must still be entering the ship into compartments that have not been sealed. Only a full report by the salvors or the dockyard would be able to confirm this.

 

A lot of this is conjecture but these are normally the steps that are taken in maritime circles when loading ships or moving ships in ballast.

 

The ship at present is now partly resting on the bottom and its starboard side is resting on some rocks on the foreshore. With the increased choppy seas the ship is moving, this is due to some bouyancy remaining in the vessel. If and when they decide to remove the contents of the fuel tanks (17 Different tanks) the are going to have to replace the contents with something that shares the same approximate weight otherwise buoyancy would be affected and she ceould end up slipping down the seabed into deeper water.

 

Hope this helps somewhat.

rgds

 

I'm sorry if someone has already covered this because as Joanie said, I apparently haven't read the entire thread. Aren't we ASSUMING that the seabead is dead level in the area where the ship is resting?

 

With all due respect, Davy, isn't it also possible that the seabed is NOT FLAT. In other words, maybe the ship is resting on an outcropping of rocks that are on the port side of the vessel causing it to list to starboard. Said another way, isn't it quite possible that the sea is deeper on the starboard side of the ship and as the ship settled it sank deeper into the water on its starboard side ?

 

Haven't the "powers that be" with all the time since this incident started, and with all the dangers of the ship "slipping" into deeper water, made efforts to secure this hull to the mainland or bottom in some way to ensure it can't move ?

 

[Leadft]

Davy...it's just a theory.....based on the location of the rocks that were hit, the distances to la scola and the mainland and the possiblility of confusion in words even though everyone involved would have clearly understood what "mainland" meant to them so they would not raise a question. It is quite possible that the captain really did think he was 300 meters offshore based on his "very clear" order to turn at 300 feet (actually he would have indicated to turn before that, but we don't know the full course he followed which would help give credence (or not) to my theory.

 

I like your theory and see how the rock outcroppings could have caused confusion as to what was "the shoreline." What I can't understand though is why they were approaching at such a high rate of speed. They knew they had to turn, regardless do when. Is it typical to turn at 15 knots?

[notjaded]

"" Mario Palombo, a former captain of the doomed Costa Concordia with whom Schettino served as first mate for four years, told investigators that he was "too high-spirited and a daredevil," local media reported. ""

 

From this news article:http://www.canada.com/news/Italian+cruise+ship+captain+high+spirited+daredevil/6008056/story.html

 

I hope that Captain Palombo gave an accurate performance review of his First Mate Schettino, reflecting this "daredevil" behavior. Somehow, I doubt that this appraisal was documented, but I am sure that we will all know soon enough...

[SomeBeach]

Dutch maritime services company SMIT said it was ready to start pumping fuel from the stricken liner as early as Wednesday once search operations for missing people have ended and they get the go-ahead from local authorities.

SMIT has been asked by the ship's owner and insurer to salvage up to 2,300 tons of fuel from the 114,500-ton ship and clean up if fuel on the vessel starts to leak.

The giant cruise ship, a floating pleasure palace of bars, spas, state rooms and tennis courts, slid a little on Monday, threatening to plunge below the Mediterranean waters of the surrounding marine nature reserve.

This forced a brief suspension of rescue efforts, which were also halted overnight on Monday though searches were continuing through Tuesday night. A coastguard said they would go on until the entire ship had been checked.

The list of people still unaccounted for on Tuesday evening included 13 German, four French, five Italian and two American passengers, together with four crew members from Italy, India, Hungary and Peru.

(This still includes the people that were found on Tuesday.)

 

Full article in link below.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/18/us-italy-ship-idUSTRE80D08220120118

 

This link is about the crew.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/17/us-italy-ship-crew-idUSTRE80G1D120120117

[dmwnc1959]

About how fast is 15 knots in miles per hour? Tying to get a sense of how fast they were headed toward land, using the only reference I know -- my car. Thanks!

 

15 knots = 17.3 mph

 

Now imagine your 'car' is 12 stories tall and nearly a thousand feet long, and you're driving on ice and turning around a corner. That's sort of what it's like driving a ship, and how the ship may have clipped an underwater rock outcropping close to shore as it turned to parallel the island for it's 'flyby' salute.

[Leadft]

I am not going back over 60 pages :p

But apparently Captain is now saying.."we were catapulted off the side when the ship began listing" ??:rolleyes:

 

Ok..edited ..It was the Virginia couple and they said they were on board 3 days before there was a drill.

 

Was the captain Wet when he arrived onshore? I'm going to make a crazy guess - he was dry as a bone.

[GioRaf]

No, when I see all of that AND a court of law convicts him, I will believe that he is guilty. Until then, he is innocent. If you don't like that, then you should not live in the US or any other country that belives in "innocent until proven guilty".

 

we do not do not, as a country, believe in vigilante justice...

 

In Italy being NOT GUILTY its not the same as being INNOCENT, so far he its charged with all such accuses that all of us know, so he no longer innocent, will be a three degree of judgement that will definitivly says if he it is GUILTY or INNOCENT.

 

Please take in mind that in Italy there is no COMMON LAW.

 

In Italy we have such kind of distinction, seems its same being not guilty and innocent, but he it is not because of the charges pending on him.

[Ozcruiser1]

I fear that I may have started the email v's usb by in my post #2126 page 107. I now will take on advice from other posters on this forum and not carry it with me on a usb but rather email it to myself and then be able to access it at any internet location/computer.

 

This is the grand thing about boards such as this that you are able to gather other opinions and then being able to change you own.

[Beachgal528]

To be honest, I never have really thought about doing the email thing on any of my trips, but you know, I'm most certainly going to do that for now on whenever I travel. Passport, driver's license, copy of a visa card, medical insurance card and anything else I can think of. I think it's a really smart thing to do. People making copies of this stuff and carrying it with them in a plastic bag or water proof container or billfold, just really isn't bullet proof. I say put it on your email or secure storage company and that way you have access to it anywhere no matter what.

 

you could add to that important phone numbers; I have a tendency to rely on my cell phone for numbers and it would be nice to have them handy in a 'crisis' situation where remembering important details is unlikley!

[Leadft]

Now imagine your 'car' is 12 stories tall and nearly a thousand feet long, and you're driving on ice and turning around a corner. That's sort of what it's like driving a ship, and how the ship may have clipped an underwater rock outcropping close to shore as it turned to parallel the island for it's 'flyby' salute.

 

:-o

 

Wow. Just WOW.

[middlehaitch]

I fear that I may have started the email v's usb by in my post #2126 page 107. I now will take on advice from other posters on this forum and not carry it with me on a usb but rather email it to myself and then be able to access it at any internet location/computer.

 

This is the grand thing about boards such as this that you are able to gather other opinions and then being able to change you own.

 

And maybe another option, which is what I do, is email a copy of all pertinent documents to my next of kin and ask them to store them on their computer in case of any problems. It is easy to carry a business size card ( you can even laminate it) with your name and their contact info on it. This means none of your personal info is given away if lost and just in case you are unable to comunicate for any reason a doctor, consulate official or the police can on your behalf.

Just one of my ways of doing things thrown into the mix and hopefully be improved.

[PizzaJohn 7]

I would not be surprised if the Costa brand name disappears from Carnival's portfolio and Costa's current fleet becomes re-branded, much in the same way as happened with Townsend-Thorenson. That brand disappeared after the capsizing of the "Spirit of free Enterprise" off Zeebrugge in the 80's.

 

The company's HQ, staff and crews would probably remain the same but any publicly perceived stigma attached to 'Costa' would be eliminated

[GioRaf]

http://translate.google.it/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.corriere.it%2Fcronache%2F12_gennaio_18%2Fsarzanini-cosi-ha-abbandonato-300-persone_8bd3aae8-419d-11e1-9408-1d8705f8e70e.shtml&sl=it&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

 

This its very interesting article on how the Italian Police it is suppose doing the investigations.

 

I had used google translator from italian to english, i hope its could be understandable.

 

If someone have problem on read it can ask me for specific points and i will try to explain.

[tntornadox]

Costa isn't going anywhere, it's a proud Italian name with a great heritage. It's also Europe's largest and most popular cruise line and is the 4th largest cruise line on Earth. They may be effected short-term, but will recover.

[middlehaitch]

Here is a web cam I found that overlooks the Costa Concordia.

http://www.giglionews.it/2010022440919/webcam/isola-del-giglio/webcam-giglio-porto-panoramica.html

[De La Cruise]

There has been much conversation/ posts regarding the actions of the Captain/ senior officers and all of it has been most informative and interesting. My focus has been on the reaction/action of the passengers involved in this tragic event. I wonder what I would have done as a passenger? Would I have done as I was instructed, would I have panicked, would I have a fight or flight instinct?

I have made an two earlier post #808 page 41 and # 2126 page 107 on my emergency preparation. But I thank Thoie post #2456 page 123 for the information pointing to a book The Unthinkable by Amanda Ripley.

The reviews of this book .... reveals how human fear circuits and crowd dynamics work, why our instincts sometimes misfire in modern calamities, and how we can do much, much better.

http://www.amandaripley.com/reviews

 

This could be a very interesting read on the "sea days" sector of my next cruise.

Would love to hear from more of the passengers and their responses.

Passengers do have to assume some responsibility for an orderly evacuation too. Education, civic consciousness and upbringing, in my view, do factor into the equation.

 

We have sailed on the Costa Serena, sister ship with the Costa Concordia (identical specs) and I hate to say this, but the demographics on board the ship was...poor. Most, probably 85% of the passengers were Italian and we were shocked at the inconsiderate behavior and lack of civic consciousness on display. Queue jumping at buffets, filling a mountain of food onto plates that cannot possibly be consumed and virtually non-existent exchange of greetings that are so prevalent on most cruise ships' corridors were stuff that gave us a bit of a culture shock!

 

Consequently, I'm not surprised to read of men barging past women and children to get to the lifeboats, the fighting over life jackets and the general chaos.

 

Although I would not discount that human fear circuits and crowd dynamics may kick in during an emergency such as this, I would venture to say that evacuations would be more orderly on ships with better passenger profiles.

[GioRaf]

http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/Cronache/2012/01/18/pop_tragedia.shtml

 

Its show timeline and track of accident and also sea deept

[SomeBeach]

Just heard on World News Tonight that the Captain has returned home. It was reported that his wife disguised herself as him to draw the attention of reporters and allow him to sneak in through the back of the house.

[GioRaf]

Passengers do have to assume some responsibility for an orderly evacuation too. Education, civic consciousness and upbringing, in my view, do factor into the equation.

 

We have sailed on the Costa Serena, sister ship with the Costa Concordia (identical specs) and I hate to say this, but the demographics on board the ship was...poor. Most, probably 85% of the passengers were Italian and we were shocked at the inconsiderate behavior and lack of civic consciousness on display. Queue jumping at buffets, filling a mountain of food onto plates that cannot possibly be consumed and virtually non-existent exchange of greetings that are so prevalent on most cruise ships' corridors were stuff that gave us a bit of a culture shock!

 

Consequently, I'm not surprised to read of men barging past women and children to get to the lifeboats, the fighting over life jackets and the general chaos.

 

Although I would not discount that human fear circuits and crowd dynamics may kick in during an emergency such as this, I would venture to say that evacuations would be more orderly on ships with better passenger profiles.

 

As being 100% italian and living here in Rome, i have to admit that this its by far almost true.

Even this behaviour can be accounted to not many people (around 20%) the result its that all italian seems be like that.

 

This its very embarassing for us, i really apologize for what such people doing when they are on a cruise.

 

This it is also one of the reason we like cruise with RCL instead with Italian Company Costa. And its also the reason we like cruise far from Italy.

 

Its very sad for us to say this.

[EVALUATOR]

http://translate.google.it/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.corriere.it%2Fcronache%2F12_gennaio_18%2Fsarzanini-cosi-ha-abbandonato-300-persone_8bd3aae8-419d-11e1-9408-1d8705f8e70e.shtml&sl=it&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

 

This its very interesting article on how the Italian Police it is suppose doing the investigations.

 

I had used google translator from italian to english, i hope its could be understandable.

 

If someone have problem on read it can ask me for specific points and i will try to explain.

 

Lots of disheartening things in that article.

 

Correct my understanding if I'm wrong.

 

The Captain seems to say he "fell" into the life boat while assisting in lowering it? The 2nd and 3rd officers were in that same life raft? They may face abandonment charges as well?

 

"Suddenly the system is reactivated and I, after having thrown, I found myself inside the rescue boat with many passengers. " A line of defense, that's pretty strange when you consider that on that same boat, they also found the second officer and third officer Dimitri Ckristidis Coronica Silvia. There may be finished by chance too?"

 

He doesn't drink, smoke or do drugs, but didn't get tested?

 

"I do not drink, do not smoke and do drugs, do whatever you want," he assures narcotest before accepting that it was not provided at the time of detention, as well as alcohol testing, although it is expected even in case of less serious accidents For example the road network.

 

The anchor was not dropped to turn the ship. They were only dropped after ship was stationary?

 

Initially, the commander had assured to have anchored shortly after the impact with the reef. To deny this version, however, there is a movie shot by the Guardia di Finanza officers arrived on the scene of the disaster just ten minutes after the disaster. The video was added to the file takes about 40 minutes and the investigation shows that Schettino had not blocked the way as he had stated in Concordia communications from edge to show that the ship was still in line. The noise of the anchors that are pulled down long after you hear his assurances.

[glrounds]

And maybe another option, which is what I do, is email a copy of all pertinent documents to my next of kin and ask them to store them on their computer in case of any problems. It is easy to carry a business size card ( you can even laminate it) with your name and their contact info on it. This means none of your personal info is given away if lost and just in case you are unable to comunicate for any reason a doctor, consulate official or the police can on your behalf.

Just one of my ways of doing things thrown into the mix and hopefully be improved.

 

I just e-mail everything to MYSELF. Open the e-mail and put into ARCHIVES file. No matter where in the World I am, if I can get to a puter, I'm good. If its "good-bye" for me while traveling, my son can access anything he needs. All pertinent numbers are coded with a family code. :D

 

[Starlight Durban Cruising]

In Italy being NOT GUILTY its not the same as being INNOCENT, so far he its charged with all such accuses that all of us know, so he no longer innocent, will be a three degree of judgement that will definitivly says if he it is GUILTY or INNOCENT.

 

Please take in mind that in Italy there is no COMMON LAW.

 

In Italy we have such kind of distinction, seems its same being not guilty and innocent, but he it is not because of the charges pending on him.

 

Thank you GioRaf for the information. I am sure once the court case gets going and the foreign press starts to report on it, then us foreigners will understand more of how the Italian legal system works. I come from South Africa, and we have Roman-Dutch law as a legal basis there, so it will be interesting to see how it works in Italian legal system.