Pushka Posted January 23, 2012 #4276 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Oh those tubes look dreadful and will cause a lot of impact injuries. And I think that guy said the F word when he landed so imagine someone older or younger. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uniall Posted January 23, 2012 #4277 Share Posted January 23, 2012 G'Day Uniall,Welcome to the table.....just one thing, if my wife is wearing a black dress and in good spirits she isn't there as an INAMORATA, even if we are cruising in Italy.... hope this would apply to every woman on a cruise ship even if Domnica was assigned to our table. G'day to you too, Mate If you think I'm tough on Domnica, you should hear Sharon Rae's comments on that subject.......Keeping it in nautical terms......it would make a sailor blush............:o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomeBeach Posted January 23, 2012 #4278 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Make mine: 3 fingers of "The McCallum" neat. :D I'd need double that to get in that tube, mostly in hopes it would numb my body for the landing. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glrounds Posted January 23, 2012 #4279 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I'm wondering, is Costa trying to hang this all on the captain?IF so are they hoping they can avoid financial liability this way? I believe they are hanging the captain as the only person responsible for this...in order to protect their other bookings and ongoing reservations. The approach seems to be hang the captain and deny any wrongdoing....and in some number of days, the press will move on to other things and then Costa's involvement will slip under the radar. This move is not intended to reduce liability (as I had originally thought) but to control image thru the press. I Agree completely. Although the company's wranglings may have a slight help in removing some of the liability, the major problem COSTA has right now is to fix their ugly PR situation. Future cabin sales have got to be taking a big hit. This can only get worse IF the ship breaks up or starts to leak oil thereby ruining this ecological preserve. Then the whole ecological world will turn on them much like the Americans turned on Exxon when the Exxon Valdez had its ecological disaster off the coast of Alaska (also due to a captain's inattendance either directly or indirectly) or the way the Gulf Coast turned onto BP when they had a deep well blowout causing immense damage to the ecology of the Gulf of Mexico. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aus Traveller Posted January 23, 2012 #4280 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I'm confused about these new reports that there were undocumented workers aboard the ship, so the number of missing is inaccurate. 1) HOW could there be unregistered/off-record workers? Don't employees have to BOINK on and off the ship like the rest of us? Or do they just walk on and off, no questions asked? 2) WHY would there be "Illegals" working on the ship? Aren't cruise ships already known for following the "illegal immigrant" model of work as we consider employment here in the US? (They don't make salaries or minimum wage, and work mostly for tips/they don't get benefits such as health insurance 401k). Since this is ALREADY the employment model - why have undocumented workers? What are they getting out of working with no documentation? What is CCL getting from using undocumented workers? staff/crew have a crew card that is used in the same way passengers use their cruise card to log on and off the ship. I haven't read any suggestions (maybe I missed it) that illegals were working on the ship. I understood the reference to people on the ship who were not on the manifest to be undocumented friends/girlfriends etc of crew. I assume you are kidding when you talk about minimum wages paid in the US and criticizing ships for not paying minimum wages and expecting staff to survive on tips.:D If staff in restaurants (on land) and many other industries were paid a proper wage there would not be 'compulsory' tips that are really a wage subsidy. They might have other benefits (superannuation, health insurance and workers compensation), but many workers don't receive a living wage. (Sorry - just another view on tipping.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milaandra Posted January 23, 2012 #4281 Share Posted January 23, 2012 How on earth the rescuers managed to complete their work with so few fatalities, considering the steep list of the ship and its position on the reef, is frankly amazing!! Yes! The more I hear accounts of what was happening during the heavy list, the more amazing it is! I think you're right, that some people were already in the water and the sea may reveal them at some point. I do believe that some people had injuries that required hospitalisation, but I also think that most people walked away...a little cold, a little shaken and short of some luggage, but under the circumstances, that's remarkable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milaandra Posted January 23, 2012 #4282 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Perhaps it would be better to eliminate the bridge altogether and rely of the Home Office to steer the boat. That's when I would stop cruising Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyhound3 Posted January 23, 2012 #4283 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I agree. I work in corporate communications. Carnival will NOT change their brand name. Carnival has enough brand equity to outweigh the temporary damage done. The public has a VERY short memory. Think of it this way -- Tylenol did not change its brand name after people died from tampering/poisoning. Airlines do not change their names after a plane crash. Jack In The Box did not change its name after the e-Coli outbreak that killed people. They all hired communications professionals to repair the brand image. Watch for Carnival to do lots of corporate philanthropy, feel-good contests and very public safety reviews/announced changes. They will survive this. Remember Valujet? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ValuJet_Flight_592 I agree that Carnival will not change their brand name, but I think the Costa name will soon be a thing of the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrocruises Posted January 23, 2012 #4284 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I thought there was an account really early after the event that described someone seeing the captain covered in a blanket in a lifeboat I did see that (French couple, she was military, he was police) but had the impression they were witnessing it from the deck, not from within the lifeboat. I think they (or many other passengers) would have confronted the captain if they had been in his presence when he was telling De Falco he wouldn't return to the ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milaandra Posted January 23, 2012 #4285 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Davyjonesrugrat, In all this time, I never noticed your signature line! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milaandra Posted January 23, 2012 #4286 Share Posted January 23, 2012 1) HOW could there be unregistered/off-record workers? Don't employees have to BOINK on and off the ship like the rest of us? Or do they just walk on and off, no questions asked? "Boink" may be an unfortunately term considering the way many people's minds work. :D But I know on NCL in Bermuda, crew did have to scan off and on. In that dock, the crew entrance/exit was completely visible, and because it's a three-day port, we saw crew go and return from leave. What they need to do right away, IMHO, is get hold of some official photo I.D. of this Hungarian woman and start going through the manifest. Keeping track of survivors was, understandably, a complete nightmare. We already know that two Italian women who had originally been placed on the list of survivors were put back on the list of missing because their relatives hadn't heard from them. This may be another similar error. According to the news, yesterday Costa denied the allegations of unregistered passengers. http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international-business/costa-concordia-may-have-had-unregistered-passengers/articleshow/11599372.cms They said "It is impossible that anybody can embark without authorization and registration." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
degarr Posted January 23, 2012 #4287 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Davyjonesrugrat, In all this time, I never noticed your signature line! :D Yes I picked it up with his ID. Quite clever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrocruises Posted January 23, 2012 #4288 Share Posted January 23, 2012 On many of the newer ships the crew are being allocated life rafts as opposed to life boats. I have recently cruised on Celebrity Eclipse and they have massive life rafts that hold 500 people. I have posted previously about them, To enter these new 'evacuation devices' as they are called they are inflated like evacuation slides on aircraft and then a very narrow and enclosed chute is needed so that crew can slide 6-8 decks straight down vertically into them. They are very very scary things. I note that most of the mega ships like Oasis of the Seas and the new Celebrity ships all have these. I do not believe they were fitted to this ship. I will post a link to these new style rafts when I can find them. The main advantage is that they free up deck space and views. This has massive cost advantages but in an emergency such as this one it would mean that there simply isn't enough room on outside decks to muster all passengers. My other main concern is that these big ships have several of these massive rafts. Most, as far as I can tell allocated to crew. That's fine on a perfect night, in calm seas. But if this disaster was repeated on a mega ship fitted with new rafts and just one of them can't be launched, you instantly get a situation where 500 people have no any way to get off the ship. Multiply that by the loss of several of these rafts and you would quickly end up with several thousand people without a life raft/or boat. I really think after this disaster the cruise companies are going to have to rethink 500 person rafts - as we have seen with Costa Concorda there is just too much can go wrong. If this was Oasis of the seas we were talking about we could double all the numbers - and that means perhaps closer to 100 dead. But if any of the 500 person rafts couldn't have been used then it could easily be 1000s. Is that acceptable? - I think not. As for the captain, i think I have determined that he took a life boat with other officers from the Starboard side of the ship and headed to nearby rocks also on the starboard side of the ship. I also think he might have been captured in a video by infa-red cameras from a coast guard helicopter: Link to video discussion: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1555297 That would explain why the lifeboat drill on my last Solstice-class ship took place in the muster station and not on deck. Could one of these rafts be put out of commission if someone with high heels goes down the slide (a Kevlar vest will stop a bullet but not a knife)? How about if anyone (very young, elderly, handicapped or obese person, for example) gets to the bottom of the slide and doesn't get out of the way in time for the next slider -- do they pile up at the exit like victims of a nightclub fire? I think if there's even a chance a regular passenger might be required to use this device during an emergency at sea that an instructional video should be shown at the muster drill and run continuously on one of the onboard TV channels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milaandra Posted January 23, 2012 #4289 Share Posted January 23, 2012 if my wife is wearing a black dress and in good spirits she isn't there as an INAMORATA, I'm not sure anyone will believe that unless the black dress comes with a whimple. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozcruiser1 Posted January 23, 2012 #4290 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Has this forum stared over with new post numbering and page numbering?? OR has my "navigation " been off course?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozcruiser1 Posted January 23, 2012 #4291 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Reply to myself.....looks like I'm here. Sorry to others posters... I'm back on track..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milaandra Posted January 23, 2012 #4292 Share Posted January 23, 2012 From a google translation of a story in La Repubblica: Even Giampedroni Manrico, the chief steward of the Costa Concordia, recovered 36 hours after the wreck and that he risked his life to rescue the passengers, said that the presence of illegal immigrants on the ship is a hypothesis "can not. They are all recorded and photographed the gate. And 'all-electronic. " Giampedroni explains: "That there are illegal or unregistered people is impossible - he said -. Imagine the black workers. No kidding. The coast is a serious company, things like that are not even to think." I'm inclined to think "black workers" is a poor translation. http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.repubblica.it%2Fcronaca%2F2012%2F01%2F22%2Fnews%2Fcosta_concordia_22_gennaio-28562859%2F%3Fref%3DHRER3-1&act=url Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrocruises Posted January 23, 2012 #4293 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I'm inclined to think "black workers" is a poor translation. "Black" like "black market," perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotswold Eagle Posted January 23, 2012 #4294 Share Posted January 23, 2012 "Black" like "black market," perhaps? Yes, the phrase in the original is "lavoratori al nero" and means those working off the books or illegally. Edit: As SarniaLo points out, it is a common formulation in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaLo Posted January 23, 2012 #4295 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I'm inclined to think "black workers" is a poor translation. In French "black work" (travail au noir) means an illegal job, where the worker is not legally hired (and is usually paid in cash, with no insurance or benefit). Maybe it is the same in Italian? That's when I would stop cruising No kidding (I'm hoping the suggestion of relying on the Home Office to steer the ship was a joke). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
degarr Posted January 23, 2012 #4296 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Reply to myself.....looks like I'm here. Sorry to others posters... I'm back on track..... Posts have been deleted over the last few days. "Deckofficer" references same and I have seen pages go from 200 back to the 190's. Not sure if post reference numbers remain intact but there has been some stuff removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
degarr Posted January 23, 2012 #4297 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Any I dea on what the press mean when they write ""Rescue workers are to use explosives to blow a passage between the half-sunken Costa Concordia's fourth and fifth bridges." http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=710516&vId= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozcruiser1 Posted January 23, 2012 #4298 Share Posted January 23, 2012 It was just my bad navigation. I stumbled on another forum on CC on evacuation procedures. It too is very interesting and most informative... As there are many many posters on this forum I thought I would add this to the discussion on this forum. If I am in breach of protocol, I apologise ... If I may quote from URBAN GARDENER first post "I have a simple request of all cruise companies: immediately adopt a fleet-wide policy that (i) forbids deceiving passengers in emergency situations, even if intended to avoid panic and (ii) requires bridge crews to promptly, truthfully and completely inform passengers of the facts as an on-board emergency develops. It is too early to have confidence that we understand the causes of the Costa Concordia disaster or are in a position to fairly judge the actions of the bridge crew following the accident. But one thing seems clear: based on numerous passenger reports, following the time when the bridge crew understood that the hull had been breached and the ship was taking on water, the passengers were told that there was an “electrical problem” that was under control or being addressed. The instinct of those in authority to deceive those for whom they are responsible is revealed over and over in the records of maritime and other disasters. In the 1999 sinking of the Sun Vista, for five hours during which an engine room fire raged out of control, passengers reported being told “over and over” that everything was OK. When the order to abandon ship finally was given, some passengers were lounging happily in the pool. In the 1991 sinking of Oceanos, the bridge crew failed to communicate anything to the passengers before abandoning both them and the ship. Information and instinct save lives in a disaster. On 9-11, thousands of workers in the South Tower of the World Trade Center survived because they followed their instincts and ignored public address system assurances that the building was “secure” and an instruction to return to their offices. Those on high floors who followed those instructions perished. In any evacuation avoidance of panic and obedience to instructions from those trained to deal with such situations are obviously desirable. But when passengers are deceived, this undermines the respect and confidence required in order for passengers to obey those instructions. And if the chaos of the situation overwhelms the training, capabilities, competence or courage of the crew, then information that maximizes the individual passenger’s “situational awareness” is what saves their lives. If you wish to support this request for a policy statement from each of the major cruise companies, please so indicate in a posting to this thread. http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1554808 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milaandra Posted January 23, 2012 #4299 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I've been trying to read the top stories in La Repubblica and Corriere della Sera with the help of Google translator. There's some serious oddities. I think when it goes to trial they will need many more witnesses to sort through this. (I'm assuming at this point they are going through depositions of Schettino and the prosecutor's witnesses and aren't actually in a trial situation) Just a couple of thing (not the odd stuff, just clarifications): They are reporting that the 2nd and 3rd in the lifeboat with Schettino were Ciro Ambrosio and Christidis Dmitrios. Silvia swam for it. (I have no idea how they figure out the numbering for officers...it doesn't seem to have any consistency) The notification about the Hungarian woman was reported as an email from a Hungarian official. Since I had been wondering about language difficulties, this would make that less likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milaandra Posted January 23, 2012 #4300 Share Posted January 23, 2012 La Repubblica reports that the toxicology report was negative. http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.repubblica.it%2Fcronaca%2F2012%2F01%2F23%2Fnews%2Fnave_schettino_negativo_a_test_tossicologici-28615183%2F%3Fref%3DHRER3-1&act=url Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.