The Not So Discretionary Discretionary Service Fees

[plattworx]

While I have found similar threads, they seem to be from foreign travelers, so I guess I’ll start a new conversation. I have taken two cruises before (Royal Caribbean and Disney) but the last was 8 years ago, clearly things have changed.

We booked a 7 day cruise on the Gem from in late Winter of this year several weeks ago. Thought we got a really good price for a balcony room. Never traveled on NCL before but when our welcome kit came I was somewhat floored to see they were going to take the liberty of charging us $12 or so a day per person for “prepaid service fees”. According to their web site, I can prepay them now (they would love that) for $168 for my party of two.

Huh?

When was the last time you walked into a restaurant and gave the host a tip in advance for a server you had yet to meet or experience how well they did their job? Maybe this is now common, but Disney and RC never did this when I traveled with them. I tipped as I chose as the voyage went on... and I tipped well when called for.

We are not cheap and tip very well when we elect to tip for good service. I am sorry, but NCL simply deciding the service I am going to receive is going to make me want to tip $168 total during my trip and if I don’t prepay they are just going to add that daily to my room fee REALLY feels rude to me.

I know how cruise ship personnel are paid (or not). I know how they need tips. I get it. However, we are really easy guests. I probably will never use room service (I don’t care for eating in my room/cabin), I rarely call for additional pillows or special cabin service unless something is wrong and we’re probably going to hit the buffet for many of our meals. I’ll be lucky if I pass by the main dining room.

So, in our case, I am being asked to pay $168 in service fees so someone can make up our cabin each day and maybe something for one sit down restaurant when I tire of the buffet. Never have I left what works out to a $20 a day tip to a housekeeper at a hotel. That is essentially what NCL is telling me they expect based on the services I know I will require from the crew.. very little.

This policy actually makes me want to tip less. I know it says “discretionary” but “prepay now or we’ll ad it to your bill unless you come have an awkward conversation with us on board and ask us to remove or reduce it” is not the definition of discretionary. It's call "a mugging" or jacking up the cruise fee.

“Discretionary” is “Yes, please make it easy for me by tipping for me” or “No, leave my bill the way it is, I’ll tip when I feel one is deserved.”

Again, those who give me great service will be well taken care of. How do you get NCL to NOT do this and leave tipping up the guest? Really annoyed by this one. I know there is a tip pool... but that means the excellent employee I tip is going to have to share their tip with people who I never even received service from. Not any better.

[OleSalt]

Try Crystal Cruises, their system would be more to your liking

[biker@sea]

If you don't like the way NCL does things don't sail NCL.:rolleyes:

[plattworx]

As soon as I posted this, I found that someone had just posted a similar question and the knives came out.

 

I am not trying to offend anyone. Yes, this has soured me on NCL before even setting foot on the ship and now I am going to be CERTAIN I get well more than $168 in service from the staff. Enough said.

 

However, due to the fact that $168 is far more than a reasonable tip for the services I will actually call upon (the cruise was not a free gift from NCL).... additional tipping is now out of the question.

 

Matter of principle to me. You don't put your hand out for tips before providing service and then make it uncomfortable for guests to ask for it to be removed. Tacky.

 

No one be mad at me, I am simply asking what seems like a sane question.

[Budget Queen]

In fairness, you aren't a recent cruiser. BUT this policy for NCL has been in place for years, and is NOT in any way excessive. This amount is in the ball park of what you would pay on ANY cruiseline.

 

Room Service is EXTRA and not included in this service charge.

 

This "service fee" daily charge, actually works out perfectly on freestyle, unlike the My Time on RCI (another story) You are going to get service from MULTIPLE people which makes it very difficult if you think you are going to "tip for good service". I find the service excellent myself, on NCL.

 

I think you are just not familiar with the current standards of cruising, and certainly you will notice big changes from you past experiences.

 

IF the charges are going to make you this angry, then perhaps, go with RCI, Celebrity who you can pay tips yourself direct to staff. (unless you are just looking for an excuse not to tip??)

Edited January 17, 2012 by Budget Queen

[bakerintn]

It seems to me that the "service charge" model that NCL and several other lines have adopted is not for you, and you may be happier with a different choice.

 

First off, I don't find the term, "discretionary" in the NCL literature.

 

It is a daily service charge that funds an employee incentive program...not a classic "tip pool". The incentive rewards go to those employees who earn them through excellent performance, reviews and passenger comment cards, not just split up per some pre-determined formula to all.

 

From the NCL website:

 

What's the service charge?

 

Why is there a service charge?

The reason there's a fixed service charge is an important one: Our Crew (as are the crew from other lines) is encouraged to work together as a team. Staff members including restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports.

 

How much is the charge?

Onboard Service Charges are additional. A charge of $12 per person per day will automatically be added to your onboard account.

 

Are service charges across the board for all guests?

All guests 3 years or older.

 

How do I prepay my service charges?

Contact your travel professional and request that it be added to your cruise reservation. If you have not made final payment this will be included in your final payment amount or if final payment has already been made we will require full payment at the time it is added.

 

At what point in the booking process can the prepaid charges be added?

They can be added at anytime up to 24 hours prior to sailing.

 

Why would I prepay my service charges?

The convenience of pre-paying the service charges allows you to plan your budget prior to your cruise giving you additional freedom while on board.

 

If I cancel my cruise are the service charges refundable?

Yes! The service charges are 100% refundable.

 

If there is a service issue can the service charges be adjusted on board?

Guest satisfaction is the highest priority at Norwegian Cruise Line. We have structured a guest satisfaction program designed to handle any concerns about service or on-board product quickly and efficiently. However, in the event a service issue should arise during your cruise please let our on-board guest services desk staff know right away, so that we can address these in a timely manner. It is our goal to reach a satisfactory solution to any issue when it happens and make sure our guests can focus on enjoying their cruise. Should your concerns not be met with satisfaction you can adjust the charges.

 

You may also not like the "auto gratuity" of 15% for anything coming from the bar. You need to also be aware that bar servers and bar tenders work on a "draw against commission" whereby they get paid, but must meet a monthly minimum of sales and 'gratuity' to keep their jobs...they do earn in excess of their draw if their numbers are positive.

 

Most of us just add the quoted cruise fare, taxes and port fees and the daily service charge to determine our basic cost to cruise today...one needs to do that on other lines when comparing prices.

[sparks1093]

As soon as I posted this, I found that someone had just posted a similar question and the knives came out.

 

I am not trying to offend anyone. Yes, this has soured me on NCL before even setting foot on the ship and now I am going to be CERTAIN I get well more than $168 in service from the staff. Enough said.

 

However, due to the fact that $168 is far more than a reasonable tip for the services I will actually call upon (the cruise was not a free gift from NCL).... additional tipping is now out of the question.

 

Matter of principle to me. You don't put your hand out for tips before providing service and then make it uncomfortable for guests to ask for it to be removed. Tacky.

 

No one be mad at me, I am simply asking what seems like a sane question.

 

Additional tipping is not required under any circumstances unless you feel it is warranted. The service charge model works best under NCL's freestyle concept as you will have different people providing you service each day and it would be a nightmare to keep track of them all. I hope you enjoy your cruise!

[AdrenalineRush]

As soon as I posted this, I found that someone had just posted a similar question and the knives came out.

 

I am not trying to offend anyone. Yes, this has soured me on NCL before even setting foot on the ship and now I am going to be CERTAIN I get well more than $168 in service from the staff. Enough said.

However, due to the fact that $168 is far more than a reasonable tip for the services I will actually call upon (the cruise was not a free gift from NCL).... additional tipping is now out of the question.

 

Matter of principle to me. You don't put your hand out for tips before providing service and then make it uncomfortable for guests to ask for it to be removed. Tacky.

 

No one be mad at me, I am simply asking what seems like a sane question.

 

I feel bad for the staff that you will encounter you, they are in for an uphill battle. Sounds like if they dont kiss your feet at every turn, you are going to feel they didnt do enough to please you.

[mpk218]

Oh dear God ....:eek:

 

Dear board moderator , can you please put ALL thread titles about the DSC in bold red on page one ... PLEASE

[Raleigh Traveler]

The op brings up another point here. One response was, "don't like it, cruise elsewhere." If you read the op, they did not learn about this DSC, that is required to be placed on your account up front, till after booking. A lot of people make assumptions that everyone knows and should budget. The DSC is not obvious on the website and in my latest booking by email with a PCC was never mentioned. Being curious I went to the website and went through the booking process on two different cruises. On one the DSC was never mentioned till the final page where you enter the CC info, on the other it never was mentioned. A crusier, new to NCL, could do all the budgeting in the world, book through the website and be surprised by this up front DSC only after booking.

[che5904]

First off, I don't find the term, "discretionary" in the NCL literature.

 

No it is not on the U.S. website. The OP stated that they received their welcome kit when they found this information.

 

So I pulled up my 'welcome aboard' booklet from my last cruise and sure enough it is in mine, unless they have changed the welcome booklets since Feb.

 

"NCL automatically adds a $12 USD discretionary service charge, per guest per day for guests 3 years and older"

[lee101224]

As soon as I posted this, I found that someone had just posted a similar question and the knives came out.

 

I am not trying to offend anyone. Yes, this has soured me on NCL before even setting foot on the ship and now I am going to be CERTAIN I get well more than $168 in service from the staff. Enough said.

 

However, due to the fact that $168 is far more than a reasonable tip for the services I will actually call upon (the cruise was not a free gift from NCL).... additional tipping is now out of the question.

 

Matter of principle to me. You don't put your hand out for tips before providing service and then make it uncomfortable for guests to ask for it to be removed. Tacky.

 

No one be mad at me, I am simply asking what seems like a sane question.

 

 

Im Guessing that it was my post that you refer to , and yes the knives came out , luckily im thick skinned , and enjoy a debate .... as stated many times if we were all the same the world would be a boring place.

 

Truth of the matter is you will now get a few people attacking your opinion , they can be quite single minded and unable to accept your point of view ... take the time to read through the thread i started , now has 185 posts , ignore the ones that shown one person moaning at the other , read between the lines . There are a lot of people that agree with you !!!

 

Like you i never mind tipping for great service , and we tip well . however it seems that some people for whatever reason love the fact that they buy something for say £10 , plus £1 this and £2 that , they think they have a deal. JUST SELL IT AT £13 to start with !!! the staff would be better of because the DSL is included , can not be taken off under any etc , it would simply be part of the cruise . Then the staff would be looking to make extra , via normal tipping , they would work hard , you would get even better service, be happier , you would tip more , they would get more , everyones a winner !!! Simple !

 

Dont take the upcoming negative comments too personal , people get very hot up about this , my only advice is something i learnt , if you do remove it you are known to the staff , whether this is right or wrong , it happens , so might be worth leaving on simply to enjoy the service and in protest leave nothing else on top , thats what i am planning on doing !

[Mur-cruiser]

 

IF the charges are going to make you this angry, then perhaps, go with RCI, Celebrity who you can pay tips yourself direct to staff. (unless you are just looking for an excuse not to tip??)

 

We were just on Celebrity in Nov. and the DSC was in place and I believe RCI also has it.

[lee101224]

Just to add another point - forums are an open space in which to chat , vent , ask , learn , what ever you want ....... every day i read " THIS COMES UP EVERYDAY ( moan moan moan )" , Well is that no telling you something , if person after person is coming up with the same issue / topic / problem then there is a trend !!!

 

( I also never understand why if a topic bugs you so much , why click on it , read it , then comment on it ?!? seems odd to me ! )

[Partyatsea]

Wait til the see the tip on alcoholic beverages:eek:!

[plattworx]

It seems to me that the "service charge" model that NCL and several other lines have adopted is not for you, and you may be happier with a different choice.

 

First off, I don't find the term, "discretionary" in the NCL literature.

 

 

From:

 

http://www.ncl.eu/welcome/welcome.php

 

 

Service charge

We are confident that you enjoy your Freestyle Cruising experience and that our entire crew will provide you with the standard of service for which Norwegian Cruise Line is known. A US $ 12,- discretionary service charge will be automatically added per guest per day (for guests three years and older), to the shipboard account for all staterooms. The service charge can also be paid in advance of your cruise by contacting our reservations department. This charge will be shared among those staff members, including the restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and other behind-the-scenes staff, who provide services that enhance your overall cruise experience. If you have any concerns about the service you receive during your cruise, please let our on-board reception desk staff know right away so that we can address any issues in a timely manner. In the unlikely event that we can´t resolve your issue you can have the service charge adjusted according to their level of inconvenience.

[biker@sea]

Im Guessing that it was my post that you refer to , and yes the knives came out , luckily im thick skinned , and enjoy a debate .... as stated many times if we were all the same the world would be a boring place.

 

Truth of the matter is you will now get a few people attacking your opinion , they can be quite single minded and unable to accept your point of view ... take the time to read through the thread i started , now has 185 posts , ignore the ones that shown one person moaning at the other , read between the lines . There are a lot of people that agree with you !!!

 

Like you i never mind tipping for great service , and we tip well . however it seems that some people for whatever reason love the fact that they buy something for say £10 , plus £1 this and £2 that , they think they have a deal. JUST SELL IT AT £13 to start with !!! the staff would be better of because the DSL is included , can not be taken off under any etc , it would simply be part of the cruise . Then the staff would be looking to make extra , via normal tipping , they would work hard , you would get even better service, be happier , you would tip more , they would get more , everyones a winner !!! Simple !

 

Dont take the upcoming negative comments too personal , people get very hot up about this , my only advice is something i learnt , if you do remove it you are known to the staff , whether this is right or wrong , it happens , so might be worth leaving on simply to enjoy the service and in protest leave nothing else on top , thats what i am planning on doing !

 

SO NCL should change there entire system and do it your way .

[Mooder]

I've said this many times, but for the sake of the OP, I want to say that I see the service charge and the consequential lack of necessity to tip individually to be a great convenience. I don't want to carry cash or worry about finding certain crew members on the last day. I want to enjoy my vacation. While I didn't know about "DSC" the first time I cruised, I certainly budgeted for tipping as I would with any vacation. It came as a relief to me that the process was simplified for me. Then, if I choose, I will tip over and above or, even more often, I will complete a STYLE card for an exceptional employee.

 

But I believe in seeing the positive in things - especially when related to travel. I was going to tip anyway, they made it easier - a POSITIVE. :) It is one of the MANY reasons I love to cruise. Life is pretty easy on a cruise ship. Unless, of course, you want to get hot and bothered about something - then, there is always that opportunity as well - usually created by another passenger, not the crew. :rolleyes:

[LadyShiva]

You get the same services you got on Disney, for $.50 more a day per person, with more choices of where you care to eat.

 

The difference between Disney and NCL is you have a larger team of people working in the same roles. On Disney, you had one steward; on NCL, there will be two. On Disney, you had a tops of 5 sitdown restaurants (counting Palo and Topsiders at night), whereas on NCL, you can have 15 different restaurants.

 

If that argument doesn't persuade you this is a different line, with a different rationale for handling daily service charges, why don't you try a different line where your base price is reflective of the daily service charge? You can still TIP more for the people who you see, but this DSC is for the people who assist you without needing to follow you through a set dining rotation.

 

I prefer NCL to Disney for the choices to eat, better cabins, and no need to dress up. If you care to be furious over 2 quarters per person per day, good luck with that. I'll note your low post count and move on, frankly!

[lee101224]

SO NCL should change there entire system and do it your way .

 

Not at all , but its a subject that keeps coming up , and more and more people dont like it - in fact speaking to a marketing exc at Virgin Holiday cruises , there are more and more deals with DSL/ grat's / TIPs included in the price as they claim that people prefer this.

 

As I keep saying , you can buy a car for £1000 plus £250 per wheel , or £2000 for the car ... makes no difference but the latter would stop a lot of people getting angry before they even cruise.

 

- or at least take the word discretionary out of the terms.

[RockerGirl]

I don't know what restaurants you go to, but there's quite a few that charge a mandatory 18-20% gratuity.

 

In regard to the general concept of the $12/pp/day service charge, it is totally understandable. Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that $12 goes into a pool that is split between the ship staff. When you think of the breakdown - how many passengers there are and how many employees on the ship - it isn't really a big chunk of change they are getting considering the sacrifices they are making in their line of work. Tip extra for exceptional service, and if you receive service that is truly that bad, notify someone in charge of the instance. Basically what I get from what you are saying is that you will rarely come into contact with staff on your cruise and therefore should not be "forced" into paying the service fee. This is exactly why this system is in place, so the staff does not get short changed because people think they should not tip or tip small amounts. These people are working around the clock, days straight, to ensure you have a fantastic vacation. The least you can do is comply with the service fee as a thank you. I know you say you tip extremely well, and no offense, but this post makes you sound like certified cheap-o.

 

It's not rude. They tell you this up front, when you book, you agree to this. If they didn't, they could get into big trouble. It's not their fault if you didn't. Bottom like, if you don't like this, don't cruise; otherwise, enjoy your vaca and appreciate all the people working round the clock for you! :rolleyes: People will always find something to complain about.

[Raleigh Traveler]

The term "discretionary" does show up on the US site. When I went through the online booking process, on the last page, where you enter the CC info for down payment (on one of the two I checked), you are given the option to pre-pay and it is called "discretionary service charge". It again shows up if you click on the "Why is there a service charge?".

[NJEMT65]

My only explanation for the NCL system, is that possibly prior to the service charge, cruise staff was getting "screwed" by "cheap" cruisers! This at least guarantees that the staff member will get some additional monies (provided they do a good job) as it sounds it is a merit based system.

 

The only part that I don't like is alcohol. They tack on 15 automatically, yet still have a "TIP" and "TOTAL" line on your check. This way if you either don't see the tip you add more, or you feel like a deadbeat bum by putting a line through the TIP line.

[Raleigh Traveler]

I don't know what restaurants you go to, but there's quite a few that charge a mandatory 18-20% gratuity.

 

In regard to the general concept of the $12/pp/day service charge, it is totally understandable. Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that $12 goes into a pool that is split between the ship staff. When you think of the breakdown - how many passengers there are and how many employees on the ship - it isn't really a big chunk of change they are getting considering the sacrifices they are making in their line of work. Tip extra for exceptional service, and if you receive service that is truly that bad, notify someone in charge of the instance. Basically what I get from what you are saying is that you will rarely come into contact with staff on your cruise and therefore should not be "forced" into paying the service fee. This is exactly why this system is in place, so the staff does not get short changed because people think they should not tip or tip small amounts. These people are working around the clock, days straight, to ensure you have a fantastic vacation. The least you can do is comply with the service fee as a thank you. I know you say you tip extremely well, and no offense, but this post makes you sound like certified cheap-o.

 

It's not rude. They tell you this up front, when you book, you agree to this. If they didn't, they could get into big trouble. It's not their fault if you didn't. Bottom like, if you don't like this, don't cruise; otherwise, enjoy your vaca and appreciate all the people working round the clock for you! :rolleyes: People will always find something to complain about.

This it the point I have been trying to make, it does NOT always show up before booking. I checked by going through the process up to giving a CC # to reserve. Of the two cruises I tried, one never mentioned the DSC.

[plattworx]

Dear Friends,

 

As the OP and someone new to this board, I come here looking for advice and council before my first NCL cruise and have gotten some excellent help in the past. However, I must say the tone of some of the responses is offputting.

 

Some points I'd like to make from the above and other threads:

 

• "If you don't like the way NCL does things don't sail NCL" is not a welcoming, friendly nor helpful response. However, I have seen it here and on other posts where some people disagree with the OP. Would you address this person (or me) with such a tone face to face? Then why be so negative here when someone is simply asking a question?
  

• "Dear board moderator , can you please put ALL thread titles about the DSC in bold red on page one ... PLEASE" - Is also not helpful. If NCL DSC comes up over and over and over on this forum then clearly alot of people have an issue with the policy and want to discuss it. I thank someone for saying just that in a reply. Hushing up people who want to discuss the DSC by moving them to another page is not warm, welcoming or helpful to the forums. If a DSC question annoys you, please skip the thread. I was just asking for opinions.
  

• I thank the person who said "The DSC is not obvious on the website ". Nope, there was no mention of it when I did my booking and I learned about it when I got my welcome kit later. Yes, I could have searched the web site to see if they tack on service charges on top of the cruise fee before booking... but who would think to do that? Would you call a restaurant and ask if you have to tip upon entry? No.
  

Some people here use a tone in their response as if they are owners or crew of NCL and I have just snatched $168 from their pocket. I am not sure how that is helpful to people feeling welcome to ask any questions of the forum.

I thank all of you who had positive responses and/or saw my point and had my back. But there is never a need for nasty nor negative comments. I hope many agree with me on that. I will continue to ask questions and just ignore those who are grumpy. Thanks!

Edited January 17, 2012 by plattworx