Oslo fjords

[ambelina]

We are in Oslo on the Emerald Princess in June and wondered if the fjords around Oslo were worth a short boat trip. I've always wanted to see the fjords and my husband wanted St Petersburg so wondered if this was a good compromise. :confused:

[kaisatsu]

You'll get to see the Oslofjord as you sail to and from Oslo (it's over an hour of cruising from open water), but unfortunately, I wouldn't consider this "the Norwegian fjords." :( The Oslofjord is much wider, surrounded by low hills and dotted with flat islands. The iconic Norwegian fjords are the narrow steep-walled fjords carved into the west coast with waterfalls and dramatic scenery.

 

It's possible in a very long day trip to make it over to Flåm from Oslo for a look at Sognefjord and UNESCO-listed Nærøyfjord, but a Princess port call won't be anywhere close to long enough.

 

I would skip the fjord cruises and boat trips around Oslo, since it will be the same view you have from the ship when you sail in/out.

[TLCOhio]

You'll get to see the Oslofjord as you sail to and from Oslo (it's over an hour of cruising from open water), but unfortunately, I wouldn't consider this "the Norwegian fjords." The Oslofjord is much wider, surrounded by low hills and dotted with flat islands. The iconic Norwegian fjords are the narrow steep-walled fjords carved into the west coast with waterfalls and dramatic scenery. It's possible in a very long day trip to make it over to Flåm from Oslo for a look at Sognefjord and UNESCO-listed Nærøyfjord, but a Princess port call won't be anywhere close to long enough. I would skip the fjord cruises and boat trips around Oslo, since it will be the same view you have from the ship when you sail in/out.

 

Agree with Meg's wise words. It's nice sailing in and out of Oslo. We did that in 2008. The Oslofjord, however, is not the majestic fjords with the towering heights, dramatic waterfalls, etc. Below are a couple of pictures from Oslo.

 

BUT, to see the "real thing" for the fjords on the western coast, it is a sizable distance away from Oslo. It would take lots of time to get there and back, see the variety in the fjords, etc., etc. We did that area in 2010 and you can see fully details from the live/blog noted below. A couple of pictures from the fjords show the contrast from there versus what's in Oslo.

 

There's lots to see and do in Oslo. Don't short-change this Norway capital.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Did a June 7-19, 2011, Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 59.302 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

 

For details and visuals, etc., from our July 1-16, 2010, Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. This posting is now at 56,924 views.

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

 

 

Sailing out from Oslo with the red brick City Hall in the background and the surrounding areas and “hills” showing.:

 

 

 

This picture shows the main, historic fortress next to where many cruise ships dock in Oslo. The fortress construction started around the late 1290’s. The very interesting Norwegian Resistance museum can be visited there. Norwegian Royalty have been buried in the Royal Mausoleum in the castle. A portion of this fortress was replicated at the Norway pavilion at Disney’s Epcot Center.:

 

 

 

Vigeland Park has a wide variety of outdoor sculptures in a super, wonderful setting that is a highlight for Oslo. Its admission is free and the views and art are "priceless".:

 

 

 

You go on these Norway Coast cruises for the spectacular fjords. From our journey to Flam, Gudvangen and Sognerfjord, here are two pictures. These four pictures also give you a sampling for how the skies can be sunny, plus offer sights of the farms, green fields, etc. along these beautiful internal coast lines of the fjords.

 

 

 

 

 

This is the super scenic view from immediately above Geiranger that shows ships tendered. A little before this picture, we were to go to Mt. Dalsnibba as a photo stop from this 4,920-foot vantage for the snow-covered surrounding mountains, icy glaciers, crystalline lakes and Geirangerfjord far below. We went there, but it was totally “socked in”. It was so thick, you could barely find your bus on this day on top of the big mountain crowded with lots of buses from the Costa ship. But this view, at a lower level, makes up for that problems and provided a wonderful vista. We sailed out and passed by two super famous waterfalls. These two were among the “best of the best”. First is the “Seven Sisters”. Directly opposite in this narrow fjord, it is called several names, including “The Suitor”. The majesty for these feats of nature is pretty amazing:

 

[ambelina]

:) Thank you kaisatsu and TLCOhio for your informative answers. This is the information I was looking for and will now just concentrate on sites in Oslo. We will save the fjords for another cruise. Thanks again

[MICHE99]

TLCOhio,

Thank you for the wonderful photos. You say that it is a considerable distance to the western fjords but I am wondering if it is doable. We will arrive in Oslo Thursday evening and fly out Saturday morning.

[TLCOhio]

TLCOhio, Thank you for the wonderful photos. You say that it is a considerable distance to the western fjords but I am wondering if it is doable. We will arrive in Oslo Thursday evening and fly out Saturday morning.

 

There's an old saying that "All Things Are Possible". True. It could be done in one day rushing from Oslo by train or air to Bergen, seeing some fjord areas . . . and then getting back later that day. It is about 150 miles by air from Oslo to Bergen. BUT, car and rail routes do not run in a straight, easy, quick lines. In doing a quick check, it appears that the train trip from Oslo to Bergen takes six to seven hours, one way. From this website, you can see more:

http://www.visitnorway.com/en/Getting-here-and-around/Train-in-Norway/The-worlds-best-train-ride/

 

If you do this plan, then you would not have and time for Oslo. And after doing a busy and port-intensive Baltics cruise, do you want to rush-rush at the end before long air flights on the next day?

 

Reactions??

 

THANKS for the nice comments on my pictures! Been happy to share. Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Did a June 7-19, 2011, Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 62,987 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

 

For details and visuals, etc., from our July 1-16, 2010, Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. This posting is now at 57,990 views.

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

 

Appreciate those who have “tuned in” for these two posts. Don’t be shy and feel free to comment and/or ask any questions of interest.

[Hlitner]

Oslo is a very nice city and it does not make a lot of sense to spend your time viewing the nearby fjords (which are really not very spectacular) when you can be enjoying Oslo. It is relatively easy to get around Oslo on your own using your feet, the local buses/trams and perhaps the ferry over to Bygdoy (a few excellent museums here) where we think a visit to the Viking Museum is a must for first time visitors. If you have a pretty nice day we also strongly recommend taking the tram over to Vigeland Park which is an amazing park with its collection of sculptures.

 

If you really want to get ambitious you might want to consider purchasing an Oslo Card which is a good thing for those who want to have a marathon day trying to see as many things as possible (not our style).

 

Hank

[MICHE99]

Thank you again. These boards and those who post are truly an amazing gift. I see that trying to get to the fjords is not a good idea. We will have been traveling for two weeks already and I think that we will be best served by staying right there in Oslo.

[TLCOhio]

Thank you again. These boards and those who post are truly an amazing gift. I see that trying to get to the fjords is not a good idea. We will have been traveling for two weeks already and I think that we will be best served by staying right there in Oslo.

 

Smart choice, especially given your busy, busy two weeks prior to hitting Oslo. Below are some added ideas and items from my pictures for options to consider in the Norway capital. Let us know any added questions.

 

Do you like art of a little more contemporary style and type? Lots there in Oslo, including inside their City Hall, etc. Can share more examples and samples, if needed.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Did a June 7-19, 2011, Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 62,987 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

 

 

Oslo’s City Hall exterior and interior. The Nobel Peace Prize is awarded here annually in early December.:

 

 

 

 

 

At the National Museum in Oslo, there is Munch art, including one of his two famed Scream painting that are in this Norway capital.:

 

 

 

Here is more from Vigeland Park with its wide variety of outdoor sculptures in a super, wonderful setting that is a highlight for Oslo. Its admission is free and the views and art are "priceless".:

 

 

 

 

 

This is the museum for the Nobel Peace Prize that is located on the harbor near City Hall:

 

[MICHE99]

Two years ago in Barcelona we hired a taxi to take us around. We found an awesome man who spoke great English and was a history major. He knew everything. He drove us to all the sites. Will this be possible in Oslo?

[TLCOhio]

Two years ago in Barcelona we hired a taxi to take us around. We found an awesome man who spoke great English and was a history major. He knew everything. He drove us to all the sites. Will this be possible in Oslo?

 

As I noted earlier in this thread. . . there's an old saying that "All Things Are Possible". That's true on your question. Why? Many people in Oslo, especially those younger, do speak English. Most in Oslo are fairly friendly and like to be helpful. BUT, you'll have to talk with several taxi drivers to see if you get the "right" and best fit to have all of the knowledge and background to give you that "good tour", etc. It's possible! Maybe, hopefully. Just do some asking or "interviewing" and with some luck, your idea might work well to fit your needs.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Did a June 7-19, 2011, Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 62,987 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

 

For details and visuals, etc., from our July 1-16, 2010, Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. This posting is now at 57,990 views.

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

[kaisatsu]

Two years ago in Barcelona we hired a taxi to take us around. We found an awesome man who spoke great English and was a history major. He knew everything. He drove us to all the sites. Will this be possible in Oslo?

Almost everyone in Norway speaks surprisingly good English. However, keep in mind that a 10-minute taxi ride in Oslo can easily cost $30, so the cost of hiring a taxi for a longer period could prove prohibitive.

[TLCOhio]

keep in mind that a 10-minute taxi ride in Oslo can easily cost $30, so the cost of hiring a taxi for a longer period could prove prohibitive.

 

Super excellent point by Meg on costs in Norway. Nothing is really "cheap" there, except walking around. Be prepared for a little "sticker shock".

 

One of the key advantages for doing a cruise there to lessen some of those higher lodging, food and local transportation costs when attempting a land tour. From being there twice and my research, there are three main factors for the higher costs in Norway. First, that 25% VAT tax hidden in the cost of all products and services does really add up. Second, their taxes are very high and those costs all get added into things and drive up labor, etc., costs. Third, since so many of their goods need to be imported (with decent tariffs added on), it all makes these costs higher and higher. Without all of the oil wealth since 1969, Norway would have a fiscal mess. Thanks to that oil money, it has driven up labor costs in many parts of their country. That wealth, however, means they have no national debt, have enjoyed lots of infrastructure improvements and have a "sovereign fund" equaling about $100K per person. It's an interesting country and financial situation. And then there is the beauty of these coasts with their expected fjords, plus the mountains, green fields, etc.

 

What might things cost in Norway? Here are a range of examples. At a 7-11 (yes they have those there) in Alesund in July 2010, a Snickers candy bar would be $4. A beer in front of the historic warehouses in Bergen was $13.25 Lunch for two with a small pizza, hamburger and two drinks was $65 in Tromso. You get the idea? Not cheap. Sorry! Far from it. A Toyota RAV4 that costs around $23,000 here would have been $62K at the showroom in Leknes on the Lofoten Island.

 

Our guide in Bergen also explained that there are serious labor and people “imbalances” in Norway. Women are in larger numbers (compared to men) in the cities, while in the more rural/country and more northern areas, it is the men in much larger proportion. The country also needs more people as its population is aging, quickly. About 8% of the population is immigrants. Our guide said there is a phrase of “we need more hands” to reflect the future question/challenge of who will do the work and services in the future for Norway.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

For details and visuals, etc., from our July 1-16, 2010, Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. This posting is now at 58,073 views.

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

[MICHE99]

Be prepared for a little "sticker shock".............. When I first read this I thought. I've seen high prices, nothing could "shock" me but then I read further. WOW. That is sticker shock.

[screwcork]

Without all of the oil wealth since 1969, Norway would have a fiscal mess.

 

We managed quite well before 1969 too!

If you can afford to go on a cruise to Norway, the price of a beer or a pizza should not be very important!

Screwcork

[OA515]

I live in Oslo, let me just clear a few things here.

 

First of all, 7-Elevens are the most expensive places to shop in all of Norway. Don´t go there unless you have to. Use one of the small supermarkets in stead. Look for Kiwi, Ica, Rimi, Rema, Bunnpris and others. The price of a Snickers bar in a normal supermarket is about $1,5-2, a Coke $2, etc. Still expensive, but not crazy expenisve. And most of then are actually open from 7 ´till 11.

 

Naturally, a waterfront beer at a prime location will cost more than a backstreet bar. I mean, what do you have to pay in Top Of The Rocks in New York, i.e.? On Aker Brygge, prime location with views towards Akershus Fortress and the cruise ships in Oslo, the beers are the most expensive I´ve ever had in Norway. That´s about the only place I´ve paid more than 10 $ for a beer in Norway (except for a remote fishing outpost in Lofoten, but supply and demand, etc, etc). Go anywhere else in Oslo, and you´ll find the prices to be just slightly higher than you´ll find in other major Northern European cities.

 

As for prices of dinner/lunch, it is all about location, location, location again. Coffee and a slice of pizza on St. Marks Square in Venice would be more expensive than anywhere I have ever eaten lunch in Norway. But same goes here as in Venice. Walk one street away from either Karl Johans gate (parade street going from railway station past parlament to the Royal Castle) or the Aker Brygge, and you´ll find prices reduced by 50 %.

 

Again, nearly everybody speaks good English. Ask locals for advice on where to eat.

 

Don´t hire a taxi for sightseeing. Nobody does. There are hop on hop off buses (they will advertise at the docks), and most of Oslo is easy to reach with public transportation (subway and tram being the easiest). By a day pass, don´t go for single fare tickets. And buy your ticket before boarding. If you want a guided tour, check out oslocitywalks. They are really nice!

 

And please do ask if you have any questions. After all, I am living here :)

[pktraveller]

Does everyone pretty much agree that spending $30--45 on a 1.5 or 2 hr fjord cruise in Oslo is a waste of money?

 

If you were going to recommend a cruise company, which one would you suggest? Viator has one (but I don't know who provides it), Boatservice has one, and City Discovery also has one. There may be more. Would you recommend one over the other?

 

Thanks!

 

PKTraveler

[MacThespian]

There are hop on hop off buses (they will advertise at the docks), and most of Oslo is easy to reach with public transportation (subway and tram being the easiest). By a day pass, don´t go for single fare tickets. And buy your ticket before boarding. If you want a guided tour, check out oslocitywalks. They are really nice!

 

And please do ask if you have any questions. After all, I am living here :)

 

Apparently more than one company offers the HOHO buses, but I have only been able to locate one. Is there actually more than one?

 

Also, I would like to revisit the Munch Museum, but it appears that the HOHO bus doesn't go there. Is there a bus/subway/tram from near the pier to the Munch Museum?

 

Takk.

[screwcork]

Does everyone pretty much agree that spending $30--45 on a 1.5 or 2 hr fjord cruise in Oslo is a waste of money?

 

If you were going to recommend a cruise company, which one would you suggest? Viator has one (but I don't know who provides it), Boatservice has one, and City Discovery also has one. There may be more. Would you recommend one over the other?

 

Thanks!

 

PKTraveler

 

I don't agree, but I would not take a fjord cruise if it's raining!

Some tour alternatives on this link:

http://www.boatsightseeing.com/pdf/2012-Oslo-Sightseeing-2012-English-program-A4.pdf

 

Screwcork

[TLCOhio]

Does everyone pretty much agree that spending $30--45 on a 1.5 or 2 hr fjord cruise in Oslo is a waste of money? If you were going to recommend a cruise company, which one would you suggest? Viator has one (but I don't know who provides it), Boatservice has one, and City Discovery also has one. There may be more. Would you recommend one over the other? Thanks! PKTraveler

 

Welcome to these Cruise Critic boards. Lots of info and helpful people here.

 

It is called a "fjord" in Oslo, but it is far, far from being what you might call or describe as a "real" fjord. Compared to what exists in the western coastal area, Oslo's version of a fjord is much different. There on the west coast with its dramatic fjords, you are close to the "drama" and excitement of high, soaring mountains, big waterfalls, etc., right near your ship. Around Oslo, as one of my picture below shows, these peaks are much smaller and far, far away. In Oslo, assuming you are doing a sail-out or sail-in, you will see these sights during that process. It's nice to see on the ship.

 

For Oslo, I would focus your time on other sights and options. See more on the real fjords on the my live/blog below when we visited Flam, Geiranger, etc.

 

Here are a couple of other suggestions to help you and other future travelers. FIRST, scroll back through all of the earlier postings. You will see many different items on ports you would visit and/or at the board for each separate cruise line in planning for your upcoming cruise. SECOND, do a search on these boards by each city and you will see lots of postings on various subjects connected with each port stop.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Did a June 7-19, 2011, Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 66,004 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

 

For details and visuals, etc., from our July 1-16, 2010, Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. This posting is now at 60,175 views.

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

 

 

Sailing out from Oslo with the red brick City Hall in the background and the surrounding areas and “hills” showing around this so-called “fjord”.:

 

 

 

From our early July 2010 visit to the highly-rated Sognerfjord, here is just one view from the Flam train.::

 

 

 

This is the super scenic view from immediately above Geiranger that shows the ships tendered below.:

 

 

 

After being tendered from Geiranger, we sailed out and passed by two super famous waterfalls. YES, yes, we saw lots and lots of waterfalls on this trip, but these two were among the “best of the best”. First is the “Seven Sisters”. Directly opposite in this narrow fjord, it is called several names, including “The Suitor”. The majesty for these feats of nature is pretty amazing.:

 

[OA515]

Apparently more than one company offers the HOHO buses, but I have only been able to locate one. Is there actually more than one?

 

Also, I would like to revisit the Munch Museum, but it appears that the HOHO bus doesn't go there. Is there a bus/subway/tram from near the pier to the Munch Museum?

 

Takk.

 

Easiest way to get there is by subway (T-bane). All lines stops at Munch Museum, the stop is called Tøyen. Takes 4-6 minutes from the three downtown stops I guess you will use.

 

http://tbanen.no/linjekart.aspx

 

As for the cruise of the fjord, use the ferries when visiting the Viking ship and/or Folk museum(s). Gives you a taste of the archipelago (which it really is), and gets you to where you are going.

[MacThespian]

Easiest way to get there is by subway (T-bane). All lines stops at Munch Museum, the stop is called Tøyen. Takes 4-6 minutes from the three downtown stops I guess you will use.

 

http://tbanen.no/linjekart.aspx

 

As for the cruise of the fjord, use the ferries when visiting the Viking ship and/or Folk museum(s). Gives you a taste of the archipelago (which it really is), and gets you to where you are going.

 

Thanks. The last time I visited, friends who lived in Oslo drove me there, so I had no real concept of the best way to get there.

 

I agree that the ferries to Bygdoy are the best way to get there--and give you a taste of the archipelago. I took a cruise through there many, many years ago, and enjoyed it, but the Oslofjord is nothing like the fjords of western Norway.

[MacThespian]

Easiest way to get there is by subway (T-bane). All lines stops at Munch Museum, the stop is called Tøyen. Takes 4-6 minutes from the three downtown stops I guess you will use.

 

http://tbanen.no/linjekart.aspx

 

As for the cruise of the fjord, use the ferries when visiting the Viking ship and/or Folk museum(s). Gives you a taste of the archipelago (which it really is), and gets you to where you are going.

 

One other question, if I may. When I visited Oslo in 1965, I visited the synagogue (and actually met some members of the congregation). Is there any public transportation that heads from the port to the synagogue? (I can't even recall the street it is on at this point.)

 

Thanks again.

[OA515]

The synagogue is located at Bergstien 13 (check it out on google maps "Bergstien 13, Oslo, Norway" should do). It is slightly uphill, and (depending on where your ship will dock) at least a 20 minute walk, maybe longer.

 

There is public transportation, but the area is only served by bus.

**From the railwaystation (Jernbanetorget), take bus 37 towards Nydalen T., get off at St.Hanshaugen. Takes 8-9 minutes.

**From Aker Brygge (from Bryggertorvet) take bus 21 towards Helsfyr T., get off at St. Hanshaugen. Takes 10-12 minutes.

**You could also take bus 33 or 46, but they don´t run too often. 33 is convienient if you dock at Filipstad. Again, get off at St.Hanshaugen. From Filipstad to St.Hanshaugen, it is around 15 minutes.

 

But: Taking a bus from the area around the central railway station is a mess, even for us living here. The name of the stop is "Jernbanetorget", but it is in fact more than a dozen stops for tram, bus and subway lines, spread over a large outdoor area called Jernbanetorget ("Railway Square"). Finding out which buses and trams running from where, is not always easy.

 

If you really want to go to the Synagogue, I would go for taxi. Or I would get in touch with the synagogue, and try to get someone to meet you. Their English section seems to be down, but try adm(a)dmt.oslo.no

[MacThespian]

The synagogue is located at Bergstien 13 (check it out on google maps "Bergstien 13, Oslo, Norway" should do). It is slightly uphill, and (depending on where your ship will dock) at least a 20 minute walk, maybe longer.

 

There is public transportation, but the area is only served by bus.

**From the railwaystation (Jernbanetorget), take bus 37 towards Nydalen T., get off at St.Hanshaugen. Takes 8-9 minutes.

**From Aker Brygge (from Bryggertorvet) take bus 21 towards Helsfyr T., get off at St. Hanshaugen. Takes 10-12 minutes.

**You could also take bus 33 or 46, but they don´t run too often. 33 is convienient if you dock at Filipstad. Again, get off at St.Hanshaugen. From Filipstad to St.Hanshaugen, it is around 15 minutes.

 

But: Taking a bus from the area around the central railway station is a mess, even for us living here. The name of the stop is "Jernbanetorget", but it is in fact more than a dozen stops for tram, bus and subway lines, spread over a large outdoor area called Jernbanetorget ("Railway Square"). Finding out which buses and trams running from where, is not always easy.

 

If you really want to go to the Synagogue, I would go for taxi. Or I would get in touch with the synagogue, and try to get someone to meet you. Their English section seems to be down, but try adm(a)dmt.oslo.no

 

Thank you again. From your description, it sounds like a taxi might be the best bet. I really appreciate your help.