Crown princess steaming home!

[geocruiser]

DH and I first noticed the "signs" of precautionary measures against illness on Friday morning at breakfast in DaVinci: No salt & pepper shakers or butter dishes on tables. DH walked through Horizon Court later in the day and noticed that crew were serving passengers.

 

While I was posting LIVE! here on CC, Captain Nash made his somber announcement about the overnight outbreak of Noro, and CD Lisa Ball reported on canceled activities. By late afternoon, DH was feeling unwell and spent the remaining hours onboard in our stateroom until we disembarked on Saturday.

 

Since there had been no indication of Norovirus until Friday morning, DH and I contend that the illness was brought onboard after our port calls in Curacao and/or Aruba that could have involved crew and/or passengers who disembarked the ship at one or both of these islands. DH and I did not eat, drink, or use restrooms on either island.

Chris

 

I think it was our second port of call there were no salt & pepper shakers at the tables at the buffet. Then the next day they were back. Then Friday it got bad.

[zacc]

Yes, some people are - first it was passengers then others starting saying that if the ship was cleaned and the sick passengers gone, then it must be the crew that is spreading it. You'd be sick too if you had to clean up the bathroom after someone was sick, especially if they were one of the ones that isn't reporting it . The people on CC aren't the people that are in charge of identifying the problem. There are so many threads on this - every other thread talks about it - we aren't going to solve anything here.

 

Can't we all get along and start posting some nice things that we did or plan to do on our cruises. I'd even take another post about perks - haven't had one for a while.

 

While I agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion I find it interesting that the CDC has not been able to determine a case yet but so many here on CC-with no medical expertise in this field-have it all figured out. I have pasted a quote from an article on Norovirus:

Norovirus (formerly Norwalk agent) is an RNA virus (taxonomic family Caliciviridae) that causes approximately 90% of epidemic nonbacterial outbreaks of gastroenteritis around the world,[1] and may be responsible for 50% of all foodborne outbreaks of gastroenteritis in the US.[2][3] Norovirus affects people of all ages. The viruses are transmitted by fecally contaminated food or water, by person-to-person contact,[4] and via aerosolization of the virus and subsequent contamination of surfaces.[5]

 

 

This virus is not unusual, in is not new, it is not limited to the Crown, to Princess, to the cruise industry, to any one kind of person, or to just the US. It is a part of everyday life and is present everywhere we go. To believe that there is a simple way to eliminate it, even on just a cruise ship, is simply....well you do the math. There is no one to blame here...it is life-maybe not a happy part-but life none the less. These same outbreaks occur on a regular basis in schools, nursing homes, hospitals, jails, and on and on. The only difference is they don't have to report it so it isn't major news. But the cruise lines do. I for one say enough already; wash your hands with hot water and soap regularly, use sanitizer but bear in mind that alcohol based hand sanitizers are pretty much useless against Noro, bleach is the key ingredient, don't go if you are already sick, report to the medical center if you become sick on the cruise, stay in your cabin if told to, and stay positive and enjoy your cruise!!

[jeno]

I agree, I noticed earlier in the week no salt and pepper shakers one day, and then they were back the next. Our group fell as follows: 1 Thursday morning, 1 Thursday evening, 3 during Thursday night, 2 Saturday afternoon and 2 Saturday night. Brutal!

[Vexorg]

On the last cruise, I noted that after both port calls in Curacao and Aruba they had removed salt and pepper from the tables and had an attendant handing out plates and silverware, but did not have buffet staff serving people. I seem to recall hearing something about this being standard procedure after port calls. As noted previously, code red procedures didn't start being enacted until the last sea day.

 

Oh, and up here in the Seattle area, there was a news report today of dozens of people in 20 different high schools throughout the area getting sick with Noro-like symptoms after attending a large cheerleading competition over the weekend.

[fathercop]

To all those on the Crown, I am sorry to hear that Noro has cut short your vacation and greatly impeded your sailing. I wish all of you the best of luck as you try to make unscheduled arrangements home.

[TrustNoOneKMC]

People are questioning why the disembarking passengers are not being quarantined. Although not being "official", my guess is taking all the passengers to ORLANDO instead of FLL and putting them up for 2 nights in a hotel is a basic type of isolation. Not that the people can't leave, but most won't who booked flights and needed the additional two days before their flight. For those who are sick, it gives them a place to ride it out before traveling, and hopefully allows those who have been sick time to get past the time where they are more contagious. This will also keep most passengers in one hotel, instead of having them possibly spread the disease to every hotel in FLL. It's not fool-proof, but it may help reduce the spread of the virus in the long haul.

 

As for the crewmembers on the ship (who I am not blaming, this isn't exactly anyone's "fault",) Maybe they will put them in a type of quarantine in FLL while an entirely outside crew cleans the ship.

 

As a side note, just because you haven't heard of "outbreaks" on other FLL ships doesn't mean they are not having issues, but the numbers may not be quite high enough for them to require reporting it to the CDC.

 

Finally, I think that ALL cruiselines should have a better policy in allowing cancellations if a person gets to the cruise terminal and feels ill. Currently, most lines, from what I have heard, do not give you any type of compensation if you are denied boarding (although I am not sure how this works). If I got to a cruise terminal and felt ill, I would probably be more likely to report it on the health form if I knew I wasn't going to lose my entire cruise fair and flight. And paying $150 for travel insurance isn't in everyone's budget, especially those of us who scrimp and save for a year or two in order to afford to go on a cruise. Don't get me wrong, I would never board a ship if I knew I was contagious, however, if I thought I was over my illness, I would probably be more likely to keep my mouth shut if I though I was going to be out a few thousand dollars. Whereas, if I said I hadn't been feeling well and wasn't sure if I was contagious, and the cruiseline offered to put me up in a hotel for the length of the cruise and give me a 25% credit or so toward a future cruise, I would be more likely to inform them.

[fathercop]

While I agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion I find it interesting that the CDC has not been able to determine a case yet but so many here on CC-with no medical expertise in this field-have it all figured out.

 

This virus is not unusual, in is not new, it is not limited to the Crown, to Princess, to the cruise industry, to any one kind of person, or to just the US. It is a part of everyday life and is present everywhere we go. To believe that there is a simple way to eliminate it, even on just a cruise ship, is simply....well you do the math. There is no one to blame here...it is life-maybe not a happy part-but life none the less. These same outbreaks occur on a regular basis in schools, nursing homes, hospitals, jails, and on and on. The only difference is they don't have to report it so it isn't major news. But the cruise lines do. I for one say enough already; wash your hands with hot water and soap regularly, use sanitizer but bear in mind that alcohol based hand sanitizers are pretty much useless against Noro, bleach is the key ingredient, don't go if you are already sick, report to the medical center if you become sick on the cruise, stay in your cabin if told to, and stay positive and enjoy your cruise!!

 

Well said. I couldn't agree with anyone more. Thanks.

[fathercop]

6pack, thanks for sharing the updates and good luck to you. I hope that things will be better in Orlando so that at least you can salvage the enjoyment of 2 days.

 

Good luck to you.

[caribill]

hope that things will be better in Orlando so that at least you can salvage the enjoyment of 2 days.

 

I am amazed that any hotel wants a group of noro-affected people to stay there.

[kittikats sister]

Poor housekeeping crew, I can't imagine the additional work load they have experienced. What does the cruiseline do about the normal tipping policy that is in place? I assume if the cruise is cut short, their tips are cut short. Does anyone know if the cruiseline has some kind of policy to see that the employees receive the income they would have expected?

[reefisher]

I was reading http://www.cdc.gov/features/norovirus and they suggest cleaning hard surfaces with clorox and water. Carrying a small container of Clorox on the plane is not an option. I have a 22 fl oz bottle spray of Clorox Anywhere for hard surfaces . Has anyone seen anything smaller? I am not sure they will let me on the airplane with a bottle. Have you seen the Clorox in wipes ?

Sali

 

 

I think you probably thought you saw were the CDC suggest cleaning hard surfaces with clorox, but I am pretty sure they said bleach or chlorine bleach. Clorox wipes do not contain bleach so will not work the same.

[jeno]

My Clorox wipes say broad spectrum disinfectant with Clorox Bleach. If they aren't bleach, it's really deceiving.

[reefisher]

Jenny,

 

By definition, spreading by the touching of infected surfaces results in indirect contact. There really is a difference because the offending speciman has to be viable on inanimate objects for that to occur.

 

Incidence of spreading via direct contact are fairly easy to control, but spreading by indirect contact is what causes the problem with this virus.

 

Proper hand washing and sanitation isn't enough; people have to stop putting their hands in their mouth, nose, eyes, and ears when this or any other virus is present. You don't catch this virus from other people; you deliver it by hand to yourself.

 

As for the HVAC, there should be minimal amounts if any noro in ducting, but when people are sick they begin spewing whatever coexisting illnesses they have thru the air and those will be carried by HVAC. Anyone ever throw up and then not cough or blow out extra air? ;)

 

The best possible scenario would be to quarantine the ship and passengers until everyone is healthy; that's never going to happen. Two days from now those who aren't currently ill, but who have been exposed are going to start their trips to the bathroom and praying to the porcelain godesses. During those two days before they have symptoms, they are contagious and will be sharing their illness with everyone they encounter. :o

 

If I were on the CDC team I would not rule out HVAC, not as a source but as a "vector". Who has cruised who has not had an occaisional unpleasant moment shortly after flushing the the vacuum activated toilets? You know some aerosol and thus airborne virus has to be present at about the level of the bathroom vent. And where does that air go? Possibly there is a breach in the sewer lines somewhere adjacent to an air inlet. I can hardly count the times that hallways have reeked of sewage, yes it could just be the more volatile and virus free odors, or it could be an aerosol being generated in the system somewhere.

[reefisher]

My Clorox wipes say broad spectrum disinfectant with Clorox Bleach. If they aren't bleach, it's really deceiving.

There are Clorox brand wipes that contain a 1% solution of chlorine bleach. They are not usually available at ordinary retail outlets. They are labeled Chlorox Bleach wipes and Commercial Clorox Bleach germicidal wipes. Gloves required. When labeled Chlorox disinfecting wipes they contain no chlorine bleach. The point being Chlorox does not equal bleach anymore. It is a brand name. Also Lysol used to synonymous with chlorophenol or carbolic acid. It does not anymore. It is a brand name that is constantly changing its products and ingredients.

[1 HappyCruiser]

It violates no rules to come back to the same port it left from.

 

Now that you mention it, the rule does say "distant" port.

I agree, there are many cruises to nowhere. ;)

 

I don't think I've ever seen Princess do a cruise to nowhere especially from Florida. I'd book that one on a flash.

[ginnynj]

Good decision. We had planned some post cruise timein FLL but are taking the flights home on Thur. We decided to save the vacation time for another cruise. We had originally thought about the B2B, now I kind of wish we had done that, because I think your week 2 will be great. Enjoy!

[geocruiser]

We we a group of five on Crown Princess 1/28/12. I last night i just heard from two members of our group and they got sick Sunday morining. They were home all ready.

My husband is getting a chest cold since he got off the ship.

 

I can't help but think if our waiter was a carrier because his room mate had it!

[Grego]

Sorry this is happening to all of those on ship. We board on the 11th. Being in the medical field, I know about not touching eyes, nose, mouth without first washing. I also won't be enjoying any raw veggies or cut fruit. Usually the last thing I do at night is to read the Patter to prepare for the next day. Honestly, I don't hop out of bed to wash my hands prior to shutting off the light. Everyone receives a Patter....could it be the Patters are contaminated by the print shop staff??

Paula, let's start a movement to have Princess offer an E version of the Patter.

[fishin' musician]

I wonder if the Marriott resort knows they are receiving 100s of quarantined/sick guests? I also wonder if those quarantined will be in different busses than those that are not? Do they make a bus with multiple restrooms? I sure wouldn't want to be the driver. .

[RuthlessBoss]

The ship will be totally clean and safe, the people embarking however are the ones bringing the noro....so no place is truly safe, hope all stay well and enjoy your first cruise....warning.....cruising is additive........just completed our 115th.....

 

we carry lysol spray and spray our pillows (after removing pillow cases ) and the top part of the mattress.......we have never gotten sick when doing this.....

I've never cruised during NORO SEASON, but have always sanitized the cabin upon entry too, including remote controls, door handles, even over lights and top shelves. It takes ONLY a few minutes. I bring spray and the wipes.

[DShock]

The question is what will Princess do DIFFERENTLY this time that they haven't done before?

Yes they are working with the CDC...please don't remention it, but perhaps they should replace the entire crew.

 

Do you know how long noroviruses last on contaminated surfaces????

Since viruses are neither alive nor dead. they're like zombies - always in a dangerous and active state until they're completely destroyed. Since viruses are only genetic material and protein, they don't have to have metabolism. They use the protein-making machinery of the cells they infect. So, technically, they can't die... and can last indefinitely on a doorknob, stair rail, etc until they run into a host cell for some reason. Some viruses have been extracted from dinosaur remains... and are still infective. And although some companies advertise they have products that can "kill" viruses...they actually only denature the proteins. This prohibits the virus from being infective, but technically doesn't "kill" them.

 

So, the answer the question is... forever.

 

Thus my question to Princess...WHAT are you going to do differently when the ship arrives back in FLL.

[chrysalis]

Is that the question?...seems like you answered your own question if they live forever.

 

My question is "how many threads to we need on noro here?":eek:

[jeno]

There are Clorox brand wipes that contain a 1% solution of chlorine bleach. They are not usually available at ordinary retail outlets. They are labeled Chlorox Bleach wipes and Commercial Clorox Bleach germicidal wipes. Gloves required. When labeled Chlorox disinfecting wipes they contain no chlorine bleach. The point being Chlorox does not equal bleach anymore. It is a brand name. Also Lysol used to synonymous with chlorophenol or carbolic acid. It does not anymore. It is a brand name that is constantly changing its products and ingredients.

 

Very good to point that out. It is easy to assume. These reek of bleach and my husband purchased them at Walmart.

[Minoushka]

I put my wipes in a ZIPLOCK Now I will drop bleach in it and double bag it ...Problem solved plus I will leave it in an outside pocket of carry-on

Before we touch anything I wipe handles,phone remote and all surfaces

[SiBreeze]

The question is what will Princess do DIFFERENTLY this time that they haven't done before?

Yes they are working with the CDC...please don't remention it, but perhaps they should replace the entire crew.

 

Do you know how long noroviruses last on contaminated surfaces????

Since viruses are neither alive nor dead. they're like zombies - always in a dangerous and active state until they're completely destroyed. Since viruses are only genetic material and protein, they don't have to have metabolism. They use the protein-making machinery of the cells they infect. So, technically, they can't die... and can last indefinitely on a doorknob, stair rail, etc until they run into a host cell for some reason. Some viruses have been extracted from dinosaur remains... and are still infective. And although some companies advertise they have products that can "kill" viruses...they actually only denature the proteins. This prohibits the virus from being infective, but technically doesn't "kill" them.

 

So, the answer the question is... forever.

 

Thus my question to Princess...WHAT are you going to do differently when the ship arrives back in FLL.

 

Instead of posting your question here, why don't you ask Princess directly either through an email or on their FB page?

 

And where do you propose they get the 1200 or so crew members from, and what do they do with the current crew, fire them? If the virus lasts forever perhaps they should just burn the ship and let it sink to the bottom of the ocean. :rolleyes: