Gay cruise ship docks in Dominica; two passengers arrested for buggery

[TX_Atlantis_Cruiser]

On all of the Atlantis cruises I have taken, the rules of decency are explicitly stated during activities and entertainment on the first day/night on the ship. The usual comment is that we are no different from the "other" cruises in that no nudity is allowed in public spaces including the pool and hot tubs, no public sex AND there is always mention of sex on your balcony. I have mixed feelings about how Rich is handling this incident especially in light of the fact that I am booked on the Baltic cruise currently still going to St. Petersburg. However, thinking back on the warnings that the Atlantis crew provides, these guys should have known better and Rich's actions are pretty much justified.

 

Also regarding the bathhouse atmosphere--yes, sex does go on on a gay charter just like on any other cruise and yes, there usually is a "Deck 13" where the lights are turned off at night and guys can do what guys do. The big HOWEVER to all of this though is, I honestly haven't seen any sex outside of staterooms on any of the RSVP or Atlantis charters I have been on including the infamous 20th anniversary cruise and the three Mex Riviera cruises. If you want casual sex you can look for and find it. If you're just on the cruise to have fun without hooking up, you likely won't even notice those that are.

[twoontheisle]

As I said, sex happens... just not as publicly as the "bath house" label would imply. In seven RSVP cruises I have not seen the open-door scenario.

 

I recall the receptionist to the Spa of the RSVP Alaska cruise Sept 2007 (which you were on) telling me that the staff was shocked as to the amount of bleach they had to use on a daily basis in BOTH the mens sauna and the womens sauna which was taken over by the men. Granted....."it" was behind closed doors, but I see very little difference between Atlantis and RSVP except the average age of the customers. I feel that my opinions are valid, having cruised on both RSVP and Atlantis, not relying on what others have said.

[Schplinky]

Oh come on! The ship has to get permission from the docking authorities. They know what type of cruise it is. I think the gay charters should really think twice about going to places that they're not welcome. If you go to the Dominica web site you'll see all kinds of "posts" some favorable, but most unfavorable. I would hope that Atlantis posted warnings about stupid behavior, but I doubt they did.

 

 

Still think you're playing the paranoid victim. Do you think they specifically ask cruiselines if their ship was chartered to a gay company or do you think that they pay an analyst to surf the net and figure out which ones are gay cruises? Their dealings would have been with Celebrity, not Atlantis.

 

I make no claim that the people of Dominica love gay people (although we had no problem there and don't go "under cover" as others feel the need to) but to presume the Dominican port authorities granted docking privileges with a plan to target the ship seems a little "dramatic." The simple fact is that these fellows were engaged in an act that even the most jaded might considered a lewd thing, regardless of sexual orientation. They showed little judgement and paid the price. I imagine in an undeveloped port like Dominica, straights having sex on a balcony would suffer the same treatment, albeit under differentcharges, although I do note that they convicted of indecency and not buggary, according to the articles.

[Boytjie]

On all of the Atlantis cruises I have taken, the rules of decency are explicitly stated during activities and entertainment on the first day/night on the ship. The usual comment is that we are no different from the "other" cruises in that no nudity is allowed in public spaces including the pool and hot tubs, no public sex AND there is always mention of sex on your balcony. I have mixed feelings about how Rich is handling this incident especially in.

 

When and how do they communicate this on Atlantis? I don;t recall seeing r hearing this on RSVP. You have been on both, do they do similar things and perhaps I just missed it or went "duh, of course" and forgot about it. :)

 

 

I recall the receptionist to the Spa of the RSVP Alaska cruise Sept 2007 (which you were on) telling me that the staff was shocked as to the amount of bleach they had to use on a daily basis in BOTH the mens sauna and the womens sauna which was taken over by the men. Granted....."it" was behind closed doors, but I see very little difference between Atlantis and RSVP except the average age of the customers. I feel that my opinions are valid, having cruised on both RSVP and Atlantis, not relying on what others have said.

 

Well, the spa is a bit different from a regular cruise :) And it is somewhat behind closed doors. I used the spa on that cruise on two days - granted it was usually early in the day but the first day there were just a few of us relaxing there (albeit naked), the second time there were guys getting it on in one of the steam rooms but I have scene that in a regular gym too.

 

I try not to make too many comments about Atlantis that may look like spreading rumors but I do have friends that have done both, that I have met on RSVP and I do believe their observations are objective. Always happy that people that have been on both can post their perspectives here.

[TX_Atlantis_Cruiser]

Boytjie,

 

The rules are reviewed usually on the first night at the main entertainment when Rich introduces everyone and welcomes all on the ship. It is probably a matter of "duh, of course" because most folks I've met on these cruises are not expecting it to be a "clothing optional bathhouse" and just use common sense and decency. It is after all, a mixed male and female crew and one would hope all gay men and women would have been raised to respect others cultural values and morals. The crew has been known to comment though that they have never seen so much skin on a dance floor before when witnessing the Atlantis dance parties (still no nudity there either)

[Boytjie]

Boytjie,

 

The rules are reviewed usually on the first night at the main entertainment when Rich introduces everyone and welcomes all on the ship. It is probably a matter of "duh, of course" because most folks I've met on these cruises are not expecting it to be a "clothing optional bathhouse" and just use common sense and decency. It is after all, a mixed male and female crew and one would hope all gay men and women would have been raised to respect others cultural values and morals. The crew has been known to comment though that they have never seen so much skin on a dance floor before when witnessing the Atlantis dance parties (still no nudity there either)

 

Not everyone gets to the first night's entertainment, don't think I ever have on the first night LOL

 

RSVP always states that door decorations are fine and encouraged (they recently started a competition) and ask people not to be nude and lewd but you know there are always some that just can't help themselves.

 

I am sure the crew have seen worse - they have nude charters :D The beverage waiters on the clothing optional deck (both male and female) don't seem to bat an eyelid.

[johhnnyt]

Whether Atlantis told People of Rules or Not is a side issue

If you're too stupid to realize being naked and having sex IN PORT on a ships balcony might be an issue and you are your mid 40's, you really shouldn't be allowed to leave home. Just sounds as these two were't the ripest fruit on the tree

[GaNavy]

Having been to the Caribbean many times, it stinks that you're in serious jeopardy if two men/women kiss while visiting (most) island countries.

 

Aside from the physical harm we hear of periodically, these government officials (unfortunately) have the right to board a ship.

 

There are lots of places in America where,for anything more than a peck on the cheek, one would be in jeopardy under these circumstances. And in any case, we've been hollering for years about straight PDA - sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander.

 

Thanks for posting. I was on a Southern Caribbean cruise last October that stopped in Dominica and I thought it was the most lovely place. But we do have to remember that the people on these islands - especially the poor ones - aren't necessarily as enlightened as some of us.

 

If the activity was taking place on the ship, the Dominican authorities would have no jurisdiction. It would be interesting to know what the sexual activity was - depending on what was going on, it could get people in trouble in the US too.

 

Sorry, not so - the Dominican authorities absolutely have jurisdiction over everything that happens on a ship docked in the country, just as we do in the USA for a ship that's docked here.

Thanks I'll take a look at that thread

 

Bottom line I guess on this topic to me isn't about Atlantis. If people are stupid enough to be naked and having sex in a public place in a foreign country, you need to be ready to deal with the consequences. It's simple respect for the people around you. If you want to have sex go to your room, not in a public place.

I've been to a lot of countries in the Asia and particularly the Mideast where I don't agree with ther rules and regulation, but I do RESPECT them and follow them while I'm there, they have the home court advantage.

 

+1.

 

I don't know (as an existential matter anyway) what these guys were doing on their balcony, but it sounds like they should have been arrested for sheer stupidity. No sympathy here.

[absolutboy20]

I find it interesting that it's day 3 since this happened, and the issue has gone away from whether what the two men did/did not do (where the majority think what the two guys did was not the best idea) to Rich/Atlantis continuing to trying to defend itself by making new postings. In reality it seems like they are digging themselves a bigger hole. The last posting they made on Facebook where they used a Dominican news online poll just seems to have completely backfired on them, especially the part where they are taking an argumentative stance with their customer base. I think Rich just needs to not respond from now on and hire a PR manager. He keeps sticking his foot in his mouth.

[Typhoon1]

As I said, sex happens... just not as publicly as the "bath house" label would imply. In seven RSVP cruises I have not seen the open-door scenario.

 

It's there Peter, for those that may be interested. Over 15 years, I've seen the open doors. Walk into the steam or sauna, it can be active at times.

 

If you're looking for it, it can found quite easily.

[cruiseguymfr]

God forbid someone to have a sliver of common sense and a modicum of respect for others.

 

Stupidity at its best.

[Bloom9]

but it might be a lot for those 2 passengers. Stupidity should not require a fine or jail. He should cover their fine as he could lose a lot of future cruisers. ....

 

This is ridiculous to even suggest Atlantis pay the fine, they have no responsibility for bad decisions the passengers make.

 

While I'm sure most of the Atlantis cruises are on the up and up, I have heard them considered party circuit cruises, bath houses at sea, etc. The freedom of a vacation at sea with 2000 gay men is what is marketed. It would seem that if that's the atmosphere Atlantis is promoting, they should take some responsibility in how their clientele behave. Now I'm not discounting the fact that these guys should have used some common sense before screwing on the balcony - but perhaps Atlantis should err to caution and consider the fact that not everyone is well versed in the applicable laws of ships at sea or in port and maybe provide some warnings about what is appropriate while 12 miles out vs. alongside.

 

Our would that ruin their marketing strategy?

 

Guests are reminded of the conduct policy on day 1, and also before arrival in some ports, I know on the Allure cruise it was announced before a mexico port that certain items should be removed from ocean view balconies.

[keithm]

Would you post the link for this please?

dominica news online.com..That's the site. You'll see some gay friendly, but a lot of real religious nastiness.

[keithm]

It's there Peter, for those that may be interested. Over 15 years, I've seen the open doors. Walk into the steam or sauna, it can be active at times.

 

If you're looking for it, it can found quite easily.

Certain posters either don't see it or more likely activly participate, but deny it happens.

[Boytjie]

Certain posters either don't see it or more likely activly participate, but deny it happens.

 

Why don't you just go ahead a name the "certain posters"?

[bdjam]

Guests are reminded of the conduct policy on day 1, and also before arrival in some ports, I know on the Allure cruise it was announced before a mexico port that certain items should be removed from ocean view balconies.

 

I think it's great that they are reminded of the conduct policy - but the question is whether or not it's enforced. And if it's not enforced then it is simply a formality and the behavior is condoned.

 

I don't know if CC will allow this link, but you can find this interview on YouTube if you search for "Two gays arrested in Dominica for buggery" - apparently Rich Campbell and the guys who were arrested have totally different views of things. Sounds like - as with other companies - the management doesn't know what's really happening. It's a shame that these guys were just left behind - no matter what they did. Mr. Campbell's quick exit borders on immoral.

 

http://youtu.be/pIgiWu_ANSU

[Schplinky]

I think it's great that they are reminded of the conduct policy - but the question is whether or not it's enforced. And if it's not enforced then it is simply a formality and the behavior is condoned.

 

I don't know if CC will allow this link, but you can find this interview on YouTube if you search for "Two gays arrested in Dominica for buggery" - apparently Rich Campbell and the guys who were arrested have totally different views of things. Sounds like - as with other companies - the management doesn't know what's really happening. It's a shame that these guys were just left behind - no matter what they did. Mr. Campbell's quick exit borders on immoral.

 

http://youtu.be/pIgiWu_ANSU

 

 

This is an aside but have you noticed how when ANY mass market ship (this one, the RCL one when the guy died, Costa, the Cunard vessels) is mentioned in the news, it's called a luxury ship?I guess it just makes a more dramatic story.

 

This news clip was interesting in its coverage. Thanks.

[Boytjie]

I think it's great that they are reminded of the conduct policy - but the question is whether or not it's enforced. And if it's not enforced then it is simply a formality and the behavior is condoned.

 

How would one enforce it on a floating hotel of a few thousand people?

 

My feeling is the two guys were dumb as bricks and Rich Campbell is being his usual self. Nuff said.

[Atthew78]

Here is a link Dennis Mayer, Gay Cruise Passenger Arrested In Dominica, Subjected To 'Inhumane' Treatment

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/23/dennis-mayer-gay-cruise-dominca-arrested_n_1376368.html?ref=gay-voices&ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009

[IslandStar]

[The guests were never left on their own. We had both representatives from Atlantis and Celebrity cruises with them at all times during their ordeal and had our local representatives look after them last night. .....Rich Campbell President, Atlantis Events, Inc.]

 

I beg to differ about the support they received based on this account............Dennis Jay Mayer, 53, told The Associated Press that he has no doubt they were arrested in Dominica because they were gay. Police said it was because they were seen having sex in public on the balcony of their ship cabin. He said they were not having sex, but were "partially clothed." Mayer, a retired deputy sheriff, spoke to the AP in San Juan, where he and his partner of 17 years, John Robert Hart, arrived after being released following their guilty plea to indecent exposure.

"The total experience was horrendous," he said. "They told us that they did not like us, that they did not like gay people."

Dominica is among several Caribbean islands that have laws prohibiting sex between men.

The trouble began shortly after the cruise ship Celebrity Summit docked Wednesday morning at Dominica in the eastern Caribbean. Mayer and Hart were in their room when they got a call from a cruise ship official.

"We were summoned that the captain wished to speak to us," Mayer said. "We were caught off guard."

Three cruise ship officials and six Dominica police officers were waiting for them. After police interviewed both men separately, the assistant captain spoke, Mayer said.

"At this time, we are going to eject you from the ship. We have zero tolerance toward your behavior," Mayer recalled him saying.

 

Police drove them to their headquarters, where they sat on a bench for nearly two hours without legal representation despite repeated requests, Mayer said.

After police took pictures and obtained fingerprints, a high-ranking officer began a nearly four-hour interrogation.

"He said: 'You're being arrested for being gay. We're arresting you for the crime of buggery,'" Mayer said. "He said that other people said that we were engaging in homosexual sex. He repeated that several times. I told him I didn't know why they would say that. I wasn't doing that."

Mayer said he was naked in his cabin and nearly naked on the balcony. "I was less partially clothed than I should have been."

During the interrogation, the police official threatened to take them to a clinic and have them medically examined for proof of homosexual activity, Mayer said.

"He said, you know, we're looking for specific things, fluids, bruising, things of that nature," Mayer said.

After making the threat, the official left the room, then came back saying they had a right to refuse the test, Mayer said.

The two men were charged with indecent exposure and put in a five-by-eight-foot cell to await an appearance before a magistrate.

"The treatment was inhumane," Mayer said. "We were detained for approximately 26 hours, and 19 of those locked in a cement cell, which had no running water, no toilet, no lights. It stunk of feces and urine. It was infested with cockroaches, ants and bugs."

Mayer said police brought in government officials to look at them.

"They paraded many people by to look in on us as if we were some type of animal, which was quite humiliating," he said. "People got great joy in the pleasure of taunting us."

On Thursday morning, police drove them to the courthouse in the capital of Roseau, passing through an angry crowd, Mayer said.

"They were chanting and banging on the police vehicle. They were screaming things," he said. "I've never seen anything like this in my life, other than in movies. Both my partner and I really feared for our safety."

Police drove around the block twice to avoid the crowd and journalists. Officers formed a barricade with their bodies and urged Mayer and his partner to run into the courthouse and not stop.

"It was very frightening," Mayer said.

Once in the courtroom, Chief Magistrate Evaline Baptiste ordered the men to pay a nearly $900 fine after they pleaded guilty to indecent exposure. He called the two men "rogues and vagabonds."

Police then drove them to the airport, Mayer said.

He said he would never return to Dominica.

"I would not spend my money in a country that does not support gay behavior," he said. "Shame on us for not doing our research."

However, Colin Robinson, executive director of a Trinidad-based gay rights group, warned against labeling the entire Caribbean as homophobic. He said a heterosexual couple in the same situation would have been charged as well.

"Things are not as bleak as the journalists in the U.S. like to paint the Caribbean as being," he said.

 

Dominica like some of the other islands has little patience for or tolerance for anything that falls outside the limits of their comfort zones. Being perdominantly Catholic they are taught from a young age that being gay and buggery is wrong. They quote the bible, they spout rubbish and unfortunately the youth learn utter rubbish from the supposed adults and the clergy. On behalf of many Caribbean people who dont think this way I am sorry for what happened on this occassion.

[TravelerRoss]

I have to chuckle when I read these posting from people who have never been on a RSVP or Atlantis chartered cruise, but they know all about the open sex that goes on 24/7, and how it's just a hot bed of filth and bad behavior...."well at least that's what they hear from their "friends" who have been on them".

That overly used statement could be the furthest from the truth. Yes there is hot fun if you want it, but you really have to be searching for it to find it, otherwise you will not witness it during the cruise. I have been on many gay charters and I can honestly say that I have never seen anyone with their cabin doors open looking for sex, if it does then I've been missing the show. It's not like a floating bathhouse with guys trolling up and down the halls looking into cabins for sex. Most of the times there is no one but yourself walking down the corridors back to your cabin. It is common knowledge that there is a nudist deck during the day where men are free to lay in the sun nude but nothing sexual is going on, its just a private area for those that enjoy sunbathing nude, away from those that wish not to partake. At night that area turns into a cruisy area for those that want to find some fun, but if your not looking for it yourself then you would never even know its going on up there.

 

I personally feel that a all gay charter compared to a normal cruise is more relaxing, I know I can be myself with my friends and not have to worry about my sexual orientation offending anyone around me, therefore making me and those that judge feel uncomfortable. I have no problem with ignoring those closed minded people, but when I'm on a vacation and can pay for not having that around me, it's well worth the money.

Try Google Search for Nudist Cruises or Swinger Cruises. They actually advertise that they turn some of the lounges into large orgy rooms, and the guest are also free to walk around most of the ship nude, something that I have never seen on a RSVP or Atlantis cruise but from the sound of some of these postings they might as well so they can live up to their "Bathhouse at Sea" reputation.

On the topic of whether or not gay charters should be going to these areas that has laws against homosexuality, I feel that they shouldn't. These islands are agreeing to it because they know of the wealth that a cruise of 2000 passengers [gay or straight] can bring to their island in one day, but it has nothing to do with them welcoming the guest to their island , it's all about the money we would be leaving behind. I say screw them all, let's just do a cruise with 6 fun filled days at sea and a day at the cruise lines private island.

[Wingtips56]

The fact that it was a gay cruise, party cruise or any kind of cruise does not justify inappropriate or illegal behavior. How is "doing it" out on the balcony of a ship in full view any different than "doing it" on the lawn in front of your house?

 

Customers shouldn't have to be told to mind their manners and not engage in illegal activities (specifically sex in public) anywhere; they should be grown up enough to know better. Why should Atlantis or any sponsor have to be in the position to tell it's customers not to be naughty? Some people don't have enough class, common sense or smarts to take their personal responsibilities seriously.

 

Lewd and lascivious conduct is pretty much viewed the same everywhere. If you break the laws of the country you're in, you have to expect their version of justice. If you don't want to be in a hot, sweaty, bug infested island jail, don't break the law there. Ignorance, as many in the legal and law enforcement professions will tell you, is no excuse.

[keithm]

Why don't you just go ahead a name the "certain posters"?

Feeling guilty, perhaps??

[Boytjie]

Feeling guilty, perhaps??

 

No. Don't project. :rolleyes:

[derf5585]

Posted on March 22, 2012 by Jim Walker

Another Atlantis gay cruise resulted in public controversy yesterday when police in Dominica arrested two passengers on the Celebrity Summit on suspicion of indecent exposure and “buggery” (sodomy).

Someone on the dock supposedly observed the passengers having sex on the cruise ship. The two arrested passengers were men in their 40's from California. Newspaper accounts suggest that if convicted, each one could be fined and face jail time up to 6 months.

The Celebrity cruise ship has been chartered by Atlantis Events, which specializes in gay travel.

Five Atlantis cruise with Royal Caribbean / Celebrity Cruises have been plagued by arrests or deaths.

Last month, a young man went overboard from Royal Caribbean's Allure of the Seas cruise ship off of the coast of Mexico during an Atlantis cruise.

One year ago, a passenger, Steven Barry Krumholz, was busted for selling a large amount of drugs during a gay cruise on the Allure of the Seas.

Two years ago, a young man died during a Royal Caribbean - Atlantis cruise aboard the Liberty of the Seas while it was in the Caymans.

Three years ago, a GLAAD board member died of an apparent drug overdose on Royal Caribbean's Mariner of the Seas.

This latest incident takes the controversial history of the Royal Caribbean - Atlantis relationship into the realm of the absurd. With as many sexual assaults of women which occur on Royal Caribbean / Celebrity ships with no arrests or prosecutions during straight cruises, it is bizarre to think of passengers being arrested for engaging in consensual sex like this.

from

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2012/03/articles/weird-cruise-news/busted-for-buggery-controversy-follows-another-atlantis-gay-cruise/