Gay cruise ship docks in Dominica; two passengers arrested for buggery

[Us2inFL]

Having been to the Caribbean many times, it stinks that you're in serious jeopardy if two men/women kiss while visiting (most) island countries.

 

Aside from the physical harm we hear of periodically, these government officials (unfortunately) have the right to board a ship.

[Schplinky]

The country knew this was a gay charter from the beginning & were looking for a reason to prosecute.

 

 

How exactly do you know this? Let's not play the victim here until the facts are fully known. These men may have been being lewd on their balconies which would be objectionable to most. I imagine straight people having sex on their balconies would be arrested too, albeit under different indecency laws.

[DCT61]

You can imagine the fun they are having with this on the CELEBRITY board.

[MiamiSpartan]

Were they doing it on the balcony??

How else would they be seen?

[Ken_W]

It's over in Dominica. The men plead guilty on the charge of indecent exposure and the buggery charge was dropped according to article in Dominica News Online.

 

The fine is the USD equivalent of $900 each, which it appears they have paid.

 

My favorite bit is at the end when the judge is quoted: "Both men then apologized to the court for their actions but were labeled by Chief Magistrate Evalina Baptiste as “rouges and vagabonds.”

 

Oh, and one is retired police officer and the other is a "personal assistant real estate agent". They claim that yes, they were naked on their balcony but were not involved in any form of sexual activity.

 

I'd really like to hear their story after they leave Dominica.

[Ken_W]

And from the Atlantis Events Facebook page;

 

Please accept my apology for the late post, we have been at sea for the past 18 hours with limited internet access.

 

We appreciate the comments on this board regarding the incident in Dominica yesterday, but would sincerely ask that most of you get the facts correct before condemning Atlantis or Dominica for what happened. Here are the facts:

 

Yesterday morning around 9:30 am two of our guests were seen engaging in a sexual act outdoors on their balcony in full public view of the port and town. Not only did many of the residents witness the act, several of our guests saw this incident as well. The local authorities responded to a complaint by several residents. The two gentlemen were arrested on a misdemeanor charge of public indecency and detained overnight. They appeared in front of the local magistrate this morning, paid a small fine, and were released in full.

 

Please understand that the complaint and subsequent arrests had nothing to do with the guests’ sexual orientation, nor was any “anti-gay” law invoked. These guests were engaged in behavior that is inappropriate in any port of call, or major city for that matter.

 

The guests were never left on their own. We had both representatives from Atlantis and Celebrity cruises with them at all times during their ordeal and had our local representatives look after them last night. Furthermore, we worked closely with the US Embassy in Barbados to assure that their safety was always being monitored.

 

Atlantis had 2000 guests in port yesterday in Dominica and most of them had an outstanding time visiting the country. Celebrity Cruises has been extremely supportive, working with Atlantis to insure these guests’ safety and security despite their detention in Dominica. We commend them for their unwavering support through this incident.

 

Thank you.

 

Sincerely,

Rich Campbell

President, Atlantis Events, Inc.

 

Rich Campbell is saying he believes that a heterosexual couple would have encountered the same reaction from the Dominica authorities. I assume that would include being called "rogues and vagabonds" by the judge.

[m steve]

but it might be a lot for those 2 passengers. Stupidity should not require a fine or jail. He should cover their fine as he could lose a lot of future cruisers. And who will sail with them to Dominica?And then Celebrity could charge them $250 each if they had a cigarette after their tryst on the balcony.

[Schplinky]

Why would he pay their fines? They did something that would be considered lewd and illegal in Miami, New York or Toronto. Why would they presume it was okay to stage their own sex performance in Dominica?

[m steve]

New York or Miami. And become married in Canada.

[Schplinky]

Lol but they broke the law; they pay the price.

[Boytjie]

Rich Cambpell:

The two gentlemen were arrested on a misdemeanor charge of public indecency and detained overnight. They appeared in front of the local magistrate this morning, paid a small fine, and were released in full.

 

Well, they were arrested also for buggery - which was later dropped - so I am sure at the time they were arrested for much more than a misdemeanor at the time.

 

Rich may think $900 is a "small fine", most of his clients may disagree.

[derf5585]

March 21 Summit

Celebrity Cruises Associated Press reports two California men on a gay cruise of the Caribbean were arrested Wednesday in Dominica, where sex between two men is illegal. Police Constable John George said the men were seen having sex on the cruise ship by someone on the dock. The two were later charged with indecent exposure and are scheduled to appear before a magistrate Thursday morning. If found guilty, they could be fined $370 each and face up to six months in jail. The ship carrying about 2,000 passengers departed Puerto Rico on Saturday and arrived in Dominica on Wednesday. It departed for St. Barts without the men, who are being held in a cell at police headquarters in the capital of Roseau. The cruise was organized by Atlantis Events, a Southern California company that specializes in gay travel. President Rich Campbell, who is aboard the cruise, said in a phone interview earlier that he thought the two men would be released. He said he expects the two men to be released on Thursday and that they only face misdemeanor charges. "The guests actions were unfortunate but minor in this case and have no bearing on our overall guest experience," he said via email.

from

http://www.cruisejunkie.com/events.html

[bdjam]

They did something that would be considered lewd and illegal in Miami, New York or Toronto. Why would they presume it was okay to stage their own sex performance in Dominica?

 

While I'm sure most of the Atlantis cruises are on the up and up, I have heard them considered party circuit cruises, bath houses at sea, etc. The freedom of a vacation at sea with 2000 gay men is what is marketed. It would seem that if that's the atmosphere Atlantis is promoting, they should take some responsibility in how their clientele behave. Now I'm not discounting the fact that these guys should have used some common sense before screwing on the balcony - but perhaps Atlantis should err to caution and consider the fact that not everyone is well versed in the applicable laws of ships at sea or in port and maybe provide some warnings about what is appropriate while 12 miles out vs. alongside.

 

Our would that ruin their marketing strategy?

[Schplinky]

While I'm sure most of the Atlantis cruises are on the up and up, I have heard them considered party circuit cruises, bath houses at sea, etc. The freedom of a vacation at sea with 2000 gay men is what is marketed. It would seem that if that's the atmosphere Atlantis is promoting, they should take some responsibility in how their clientele behave. Now I'm not discounting the fact that these guys should have used some common sense before screwing on the balcony - but perhaps Atlantis should err to caution and consider the fact that not everyone is well versed in the applicable laws of ships at sea or in port and maybe provide some warnings about what is appropriate while 12 miles out vs. alongside.

 

Our would that ruin their marketing strategy? [/quote]

 

It likely would. Still, it is a slippery slope, for them. Do they start to pay the public drunkeness fines their pax might have, or pay if their clients are arrested on drug charges? Rich's method seems to be to encourage this type of behavior through the environment he creates and then disavow the behavior when it results in consequences.

[KDilly]

Thanks I'll take a look at that thread

 

Bottom line I guess on this topic to me isn't about Atlantis. If people are stupid enough to be naked and having sex in a public place in a foreign country, you need to be ready to deal with the consequences. It's simple respect for the people around you. If you want to have sex go to your room, not in a public place.

I've been to a lot of countries in the Asia and particularly the Mideast where I don't agree with ther rules and regulation, but I do RESPECT them and follow them while I'm there, they have the home court advantage.

 

When in Rome... Right?!?!

 

-KD

[Doonan]

If they were carrying out a sex act in public ... be it on the ship or on land ... they deserve the outcome.

 

Should anything of this nature take place in Sydney ... I feel sure it would have been with the same results as in Dominica.

 

This is nothing to do with 'Gay Rights' its common decency.

 

I would have thought Celebrity would start to wonder if they want Atlantis as a customer.

 

Neil

[jamessemaj]

If they were carrying out a sex act in public ... be it on the ship or on land ... they deserve the outcome.

 

Should anything of this nature take place in Sydney ... I feel sure it would have been with the same results as in Dominica.

 

This is nothing to do with 'Gay Rights' its common decency.

 

I would have thought Celebrity would start to wonder if they want Atlantis as a customer.

 

Neil

 

Very much agree. We have public decency laws in the USA as well. They apply regardless of sexual orientation.

[Boytjie]

Then the people who have suggested I go on these cruises are telling me stories - I have a healthy libido - I'm glad I haven't gone as I would have been disappointed - I've been told of the orgy spots/decks and also of bathhouse-open door behavior.

 

As I said, sex happens... just not as publicly as the "bath house" label would imply. In seven RSVP cruises I have not seen the open-door scenario.

[bdjam]

As I said, sex happens... just not as publicly as the "bath house" label would imply. In seven RSVP cruises I have not seen the open-door scenario.

 

The open door scenario came from Atlantis...but I did hear first hand account of how an area on a HAL RSVP charter was used for group sex every night.

Doesn't matter - it's a vacation and people lose their senses.

[absolutboy20]

I don't think there's any question that the two guys used poor judgement in what they did, being nude on the balcony in port as they stated, or having sex on the balcony. I think they were fortunate in being in a country where "buggary" laws exists, that they were able to be seen in court the very next day, simply pay a fine, and leave. If this were to happen in CA where you were arrested for public indecency, I would imagine you would be given a future court date, possibly have post bail, and then have to come back!

 

What bothered me were some of Rich Campbell's comments where it paints a great picture for the company, but it doesn't quite make sense. It started off with him on his Facebook posting where he apologized for the late post blaming it on being at sea:

 

"Please accept my apology for the late post, we have been at sea for the past 18 hours with limited internet access."

 

The Caribbean in my experience I always had full cell service through the ship and internet access was always available, albeit VERY slow dial up speeds. It never has been out for 18 hours in my experience. I think he posted this as it made the news wires so extensively and I didn't think he expected that. I even saw it as part of the news this morning for a local San Francisco bay area news show.

 

There's a LA Times article: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/03/men-arrested-for-indecently-on-cruise-headed-home-to-palm-springs.html

which he was quoted as stating, "We’ve been going to the Caribbean for 21 years now,” Campbell said. “I’ve taken 50,000 guests there without any incidents.” I think that's a blanket statement which sounds great, but that can be interpreted in many ways which wouldn't be true. No incidents/arrests of indecent exposure? Maybe? But arrests of drug dealers, or being simply denied port entry to the Caymen islands due to being a gay cruise? Yes.

 

He states in one interview and on his official Facebook page that the passengers were never left alone by their representative or by Celebrity cruises during this ordeal, but then in another one the story changes to the two men were left by themselves at port as they stated they did not need their assistance.

 

Rich isn't and shouldn't be responsible for any passengers actions, but the spin he puts on it making the company was there to hold them through the incident just doesn't seem like it was there. I'm not saying they should have been responsible, but let's not say things that seem like they are untrue for good PR.

[mikeange]

As I said, sex happens... just not as publicly as the "bath house" label would imply. In seven RSVP cruises I have not seen the open-door scenario.

 

I agree.

 

We have cruised every winter with RSVP since 1997 (excluding 2004 and 2007) as well as Alaska in 2005 and have never seen the "bath house" atmosphere some refer to. While we are aware of the top top deck being a trysting (or is that tricking) spot late at night, we have just not seen it happening. In all the cruises, I have only seen one open door with two guys apparently loking for more. I just kept walking. Otherwise, what goes on behind closed doors is none of my business.

 

I'm just sayin' ...

[keithm]

How exactly do you know this? Let's not play the victim here until the facts are fully known. These men may have been being lewd on their balconies which would be objectionable to most. I imagine straight people having sex on their balconies would be arrested too, albeit under different indecency laws.

Oh come on! The ship has to get permission from the docking authorities. They know what type of cruise it is. I think the gay charters should really think twice about going to places that they're not welcome. If you go to the Dominica web site you'll see all kinds of "posts" some favorable, but most unfavorable. I would hope that Atlantis posted warnings about stupid behavior, but I doubt they did.

[keithm]

And from the Atlantis Events Facebook page;

 

Please accept my apology for the late post, we have been at sea for the past 18 hours with limited internet access.

 

We appreciate the comments on this board regarding the incident in Dominica yesterday, but would sincerely ask that most of you get the facts correct before condemning Atlantis or Dominica for what happened. Here are the facts:

 

Yesterday morning around 9:30 am two of our guests were seen engaging in a sexual act outdoors on their balcony in full public view of the port and town. Not only did many of the residents witness the act, several of our guests saw this incident as well. The local authorities responded to a complaint by several residents. The two gentlemen were arrested on a misdemeanor charge of public indecency and detained overnight. They appeared in front of the local magistrate this morning, paid a small fine, and were released in full.

 

Please understand that the complaint and subsequent arrests had nothing to do with the guests’ sexual orientation, nor was any “anti-gay” law invoked. These guests were engaged in behavior that is inappropriate in any port of call, or major city for that matter.

 

The guests were never left on their own. We had both representatives from Atlantis and Celebrity cruises with them at all times during their ordeal and had our local representatives look after them last night. Furthermore, we worked closely with the US Embassy in Barbados to assure that their safety was always being monitored.

 

Atlantis had 2000 guests in port yesterday in Dominica and most of them had an outstanding time visiting the country. Celebrity Cruises has been extremely supportive, working with Atlantis to insure these guests’ safety and security despite their detention in Dominica. We commend them for their unwavering support through this incident.

 

Thank you.

 

Sincerely,

Rich Campbell

President, Atlantis Events, Inc.

 

Rich Campbell is saying he believes that a heterosexual couple would have encountered the same reaction from the Dominica authorities. I assume that would include being called "rogues and vagabonds" by the judge.

Read some of the posts on the Dominica website & you'll see all kinds of remarks about the gay cruise. It wasn't just the 2 guys getting arrested. There were all kinds of antigay posts on the cruise just being in port.. We cruised there last year on Cunard. Being a mainstream ship, they didn't take any notice at all. Either way we always do a ship based excursion. We avoid any PDA'S. We just blend in with the crowd. Hate having to do that,but seeing what happens when you don't, well you get the picture.

[keithm]

That's the headline from Dominica News Online which I found from following the link on Joe My God It appears to be the current Atlantic cruise chartered to Celebrity.

 

The article in Dominica News Online states, in part, "Information reaching DNO indicates that homosexual cruise ship passengers alleged to have been involved in public sexual acts are in police custody at the CID Department.

The police were called in after the men were seen publicly engaging in sexual activity.

 

"One individual with information on the matter told DNO that “they were informed of the laws of Dominica and they were well aware that their acts would be considered a criminal offence.

 

"Police Chief Cyrille Carrette has confirmed that two males from California, John Robert Hart and Dennis Jay Mayer, have been charged with buggery and indecent exposure and are expected to appear in court on Thursday morning."

 

Blogger Joe Jervis' reporting of the story questions whether the alleged sexual activity in question occurred on the deck of the ship the ship and witnessed by people on shore, and exactly what was witnessed that was interpreted as "sexual activity".

 

Personally, I had very little interest in the Caribbean before this, and now I have even less; it's just never held much interest for me. There will no doubt be much more on this story that will come to light, but I thought this forum would be a good place for the information, as many people use information from this forum to make travel plans.

DO CHECK the "Dominica news online" web site & check the blogs.I'd guess they really don't like us too much. These 2 clowns getting arrested is really only the tip of the iceberg here. The responses on gays in general speaks volumes here.

[Us2inFL]

DO CHECK the "Dominica news online" web site & check the blogs

 

Would you post the link for this please?