criminal record and going to canada

[settingsail0219]

hey everyone! first post here...just looking for insight on other cruisers' experiences.

 

i called the princess hotline today about a cruise my relatives and i taking that starts and ends in san francisco, ca. (we are all us citizens) it's a cruise to alaska, and of course, there's a stop in canada. my main concern is that one person in our group has an infraction record of petty theft from 3 years ago. since the cruise starts and ends in the US, will she still be able to board the ship w/o any problems? i would assume she would stay onboard during the canada portion so as to avoid any conflict.

 

we've already tried calling the canada consulates in the states, and have been directed in a roundabout manner by the canadian border patrol--to no avail (a bunch of automations, recordings, dropped calls). since this cruise is coming up fast, anyone who has past similar past experiences and was able to board the princess ship with no problems, please chime in!

 

it will put a lot of our stresses at ease. thank you thank you!!!

[-Lew-]

Follow this link for the information you need. Good luck...

 

Lew

[itzmered]

as long as she doesnt get off in Canada she wont have an issue.

[Shmoo here]

as long as she doesnt get off in Canada she wont have an issue.

 

Pretty sure that's not true. I've read that if the ship stops in Canada and you are on the "do not admit" list, they won't even let you board.

 

The cruiseline doesn't want to be resposible for having a passenger onboard that won't be allowed off the ship, even if said passenger promises that they won't. They are not security people.

 

:)

[Putterdude]

You will not pass through any countries customs be it US or Canada prior to boarding and Princess has no access to criminal records. However a passenger manifest will be provided to Canadian customs before arrival in Victoria so in a worst case scenario the person who has the conviction could be told discreetly before arrival in Victoria that they are not permitted to go ashore...the likelihood of this is pretty small. The other thing that the person has going for them is that petty theft is not an indictable offense in the Province of British Columbia, in other words a misdemeanor and that in itself would not preclude admittance into Canada.

[settingsail0219]

You will not pass through any countries customs be it US or Canada prior to boarding and Princess has no access to criminal records. However a passenger manifest will be provided to Canadian customs before arrival in Victoria so in a worst case scenario the person who has the conviction could be told discreetly before arrival in Victoria that they are not permitted to go ashore...the likelihood of this is pretty small. The other thing that the person has going for them is that petty theft is not an indictable offense in the Province of British Columbia, in other words a misdemeanor and that in itself would not preclude admittance into Canada.

 

hi putterdude, are you sure of this/do you know this from experience? crossing my fingers that you're right (but you do seem knowledgeable about the subject :) ). hoping and praying that you're right so we can all breathe a little easier.

 

and thank you everyone so much for taking the time to reply. super appreciative of everyone's help. :)

[Putterdude]

hi putterdude, are you sure of this/do you know this from experience? crossing my fingers that you're right (but you do seem knowledgeable about the subject :) ). hoping and praying that you're right so we can all breathe a little easier.

 

and thank you everyone so much for taking the time to reply. super appreciative of everyone's help. :)

 

I am a Canadian, I have no record that precludes me from entering any country and I am not a lawyer. However, questions like yours do come up fairly regularly on this topic, particularly as it relates to DUIs which has caused me to do a lot of research on the topic.

[Nitemare]

hi putterdude, are you sure of this/do you know this from experience? crossing my fingers that you're right (but you do seem knowledgeable about the subject :) ). hoping and praying that you're right so we can all breathe a little easier.

 

and thank you everyone so much for taking the time to reply. super appreciative of everyone's help. :)

 

To be honest, you're asking a random group of people who love cruising and know a whole lot about a whole lot of things, but you can never know if the person giving you what basically is legal advice is a lawyer who specializes in the given subject.

 

If you want to be 100% certain, you should talk to a lawyer who specializes in the question, or find a website (perhaps the one already posted) to find out for certain the answer to your question.

 

It's annoying when an Internet friend gives you a recommendation for a restaurant that turns out not to be very good. It can ruin a vacation when an Internet friend gives you bad legal advice. Crossing fingers won't make bad advice good.

 

Please understand that I have great respect for Putterdude's advice, having seen him posting here for years, but pay attention to his "I am not a Lawyer" comment when making your decisions.

[Putterdude]

If the OP decides to consult a lawyer, they would want to speak with an immigration lawyer and I doubt that you would find one that knows much about Canadian immigration law in California. I would suggest they try to find one in Washington state or better yet in Vancouver. I do have the name of an immigration attorney in Bellingham, WA that a number of friends have used and I would be happy give the OP if they want to contact me by email.

Another suggestion would be to contact CBSA in Victoria at (250) 363-3531

[settingsail0219]

I will try contacting CBSA in victoria today. thank you all once again!

[Putterdude]

Try to get the name of the person you are speaking with. One of the issues is that an individual officer has a lot of discretion who they admit & who they don't. So while you may get one answer from one officer you may get an entirely different answer from another.

You will also want to tell him the amount of time you will be spending in Victoria which is likely only 6 to 8 hours.

Also explain the whole nature of the offense and the amount of money involved as in California I believe "petty theft" is less than $500 while in British Columbia it is less than $5,000.

[settingsail0219]

just got off the phone with CBSA, and the lady said because the infraction occurred 3 years ago (5 years hasn't elapsed yet), that it will cause problems but it comes down to the discretion of the individual officer that they would deal with when trying to get off the boat. she stated to bring some papers that explain the situation, as it might help ease the process. i then asked her if it would cause problems with getting on the boat itself that starts and ends in san francisco. she said she has no idea and that she can only answer questions with regards to coming to canada and to take it up with the cruise ship. however, princess directed me to contact them regarding the issue. what should i make of this?

[Putterdude]

This is fascinating in a sense. She is absolutely correct, that the officer looking at the manifest has a great deal of discretion, what wasn't correct was that the period for deemed redemption for a crime has been changed from 5 years to 10 years...so I fear she did not understand all of the facts nor give you the best advice.

If I were in your position I would just go and take my chances, but bring all documentation you have with you. You have done what Princess has advised you to do and I fear the person at Princess didn't know either and thus kicked you off to CBSA. You may want to consider not filling in the Princess Personalize until the last possible date and maybe not all and let the Princess agent do all the paper work at the pier, bearing in mind that Princess does not have access to criminal records.

[settingsail0219]

This is fascinating in a sense. She is absolutely correct, that the officer looking at the manifest has a great deal of discretion, what wasn't correct was that the period for deemed redemption for a crime has been changed from 5 years to 10 years...so I fear she did not understand all of the facts nor give you the best advice.

If I were in your position I would just go and take my chances, but bring all documentation you have with you. You have done what Princess has advised you to do and I fear the person at Princess didn't know either and thus kicked you off to CBSA. You may want to consider not filling in the Princess Personalize until the last possible date and maybe not all and let the Princess agent do all the paper work at the pier, bearing in mind that Princess does not have access to criminal records.

 

thanks putterdude! and unfortunately i've already filled out princess personalize... :eek: since they dont have access to criminal records, do you think they will be able to link my info/passport # to anything anyways?

[Putterdude]

thanks putterdude! and unfortunately i've already filled out princess personalize... :eek: since they dont have access to criminal records, do you think they will be able to link my info/passport # to anything anyways?

 

Princess won't be able to but I am not certain as to when the information (manifest) is transmitted to the CBSA. I doubt, however, that it is done until the list is complete otherwise a lot of time is spent scanning an incomplete list and perhaps an incorrect list.

I am still of the mind that theft under $500 is a misdemeanor offense in Canada and therefore not a reason to bar entry into Canada.

[settingsail0219]

Princess won't be able to but I am not certain as to when the information (manifest) is transmitted to the CBSA. I doubt, however, that it is done until the list is complete otherwise a lot of time is spent scanning an incomplete list and perhaps an incorrect list.

I am still of the mind that theft under $500 is a misdemeanor offense in Canada and therefore not a reason to bar entry into Canada.

 

just got off the phone with princess once again, and they said they have nothing to do with who gets on the boat in sf with regards to past records. (i asked if the canadian border patrol tells them who cannot board). rather, canadian border patrol decides if you can board before you get on the boat? but i've read on other threads that there are no canadian border patrol agents in US ports...so hopefully that means there shouldnt be any issues with getting on the boat in sf.

[Cruise staff]

From my experience working on the ship, they will allow your travelling partner on board the ship as I don`t think that they will bar anyone from coming onboard since we don`t have a list of passengers with offences.

 

The only thing that I can think of that will happen is when you are arriving into Canada on the last day, is that you will be detained on board meaning you are not allowed off ship.

 

The cruise line usually sends out what we call an ENOA known as Electronic Notification of Arrival. This contain passengers and crews information as well as items that the ships are carrying be it meat, engines and such. From there, it really depends on on the customs officials what they would like to scrutinize and who they would like to check.

 

As I said, the worst case scenario is that she will just be asked to stay on the ship and not allowed to get off. Since it is only a few hours, not much to see...

 

Just don`t stress yourself and have a great time travelling with your friends and family.

[settingsail0219]

thank you for your detailed answer cruise staff! hopefully everything works out as you said :)

[Putterdude]

thank you for your detailed answer cruise staff! hopefully everything works out as you said :)

 

I think with what you have learned from this thread and the other one, you have a probability factor of well into the 90's that you will not be denied boarding and the worst case scenario is that your companion "may" be restricted to the ship while in Victoria. That said, I can appreciate your sense of nervousness and concern.

[lrowe70]

So what did the cruise line say when you asked them this question?

[Putterdude]

So what did the cruise line say when you asked them this question?

 

See the #1 and #17 posts it is all there.

[paramedicduo]

This is fascinating in a sense. She is absolutely correct, that the officer looking at the manifest has a great deal of discretion, what wasn't correct was that the period for deemed redemption for a crime has been changed from 5 years to 10 years...so I fear she did not understand all of the facts nor give you the best advice.

 

If I were in your position I would just go and take my chances, but bring all documentation you have with you. You have done what Princess has advised you to do and I fear the person at Princess didn't know either and thus kicked you off to CBSA. You may want to consider not filling in the Princess Personalize until the last possible date and maybe not all and let the Princess agent do all the paper work at the pier, bearing in mind that Princess does not have access to criminal records.

 

Theft under $5000 is a Summary conviction in Canada, and it does put you on the "no entry" list (I was not aware that this could be under the discretion of the agent??). Summary convictions can be pardoned from your record after 5yrs.

Only indictable convictions require a 10yr wait before being eligible for a Pardon.

[Putterdude]

Theft under $5000 is a Summary conviction in Canada, and it does put you on the "no entry" list (I was not aware that this could be under the discretion of the agent??). Summary convictions can be pardoned from your record after 5yrs.

Only indictable convictions require a 10yr wait before being eligible for a Pardon.

 

You may be interested in this article from the CBSA website.

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/agency-agence/reports-rapports/ae-ve/2011/cpv-dncp-eng.html

[Urban trekker]

Scanned through the article - you need an advanced degree to understand much of it but I did notice this tidbit - not to be confused with timbits first thing in the morning.

 

"The CBSA does not have a commercial passenger vessels targeting program and has no legislative authority to require cruise, ferry and tour operators to provide the CBSA with Advance Personal Information/Passenger Name Record (API/PNR."

 

I will let the experts - that's what cruise critics are - aren't we - decide what that means.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

[LeftcoastBC]

Scanned through the article - you need an advanced degree to understand much of it but I did notice this tidbit - not to be confused with timbits first thing in the morning.

 

"The CBSA does not have a commercial passenger vessels targeting program and has no legislative authority to require cruise, ferry and tour operators to provide the CBSA with Advance Personal Information/Passenger Name Record (API/PNR."

 

I will let the experts - that's what cruise critics are - aren't we - decide what that means.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

 

I did less than Scan it :eek:. I'll just take the Timbits.

No wonder no one at the border does stuff the same way anyone else does. You Need to take a class or maybe even a whole semester to take it all in.

 

My personal experience is and my understanding from that is: Unless you are an axe murderer, or such a cruise line will let you pay for the trip and get you on board but you might not be able to get off in Victoria on one of those cruises to Alaska with a must stop in a nearby foreign port. eg: Victoria or Prince Rupert.