Carbon Tax and Cruise Ships

[thied]

Does any one have any thoughts, or does any one know how or will Carbon Tax will affect cruise ships in Australia?

 

Are Australian Cruise ship Carbon Tax free?

 

How will Carbon Tax affect cruise prices?

[rkmw]

Does any one have any thoughts, or does any one know how or will Carbon Tax will affect cruise ships in Australia?

 

Are Australian Cruise ship Carbon Tax free?

 

How will Carbon Tax affect cruise prices?

 

another question will people still be able to cruise once they have paid their bills

[Aussie71]

I realise that this is not directly related to the cruise industry, but if shipped freight across the Bass Strait attracts the carbon tax then I would imagine that all fuel purchased in Australia would be the same.

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-07-02/claims-carbon-tax-will-hit-bass-strait-freight/4104360?section=business

 

Unless, cruise ships that are registered in another country do not apply.

[Aussie71]

If airlines start to add a surcharge to cover the carbon tax, I am sure that other industries will do the same.

 

http://lnp.org.au/news/tourism/tourism-whacked-as-carbon-tax-hits-airlines

[thied]

I realise that this is not directly related to the cruise industry, but if shipped freight across the Bass Strait attracts the carbon tax then I would imagine that all fuel purchased in Australia would be the same.

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-07-02/claims-carbon-tax-will-hit-bass-strait-freight/4104360?section=business

 

Unless, cruise ships that are registered in another country do not apply.

That brings up another question do cruise ships based in Australia run Tax free?

[The_Big_M]

Are Australian Cruise ship Carbon Tax free?

 

The carbon tax covers Australia's top 500 emitters. Given the ships aren't owned by Carnival Australia (off-shore registry), that limits them to the office workers, so the tax wouldn't apply to them.

 

How will Carbon Tax affect cruise prices?

 

I'd be surprised if it has any effect - unlike the recent increase in international departure tax, and upcoming increase in port charges in NSW.

[The_Big_M]

That brings up another question do cruise ships based in Australia run Tax free?

 

As above, it depends what you mean. Carnival as an Australian company pays tax on its operations. However, the ships themselves are not Australian so e.g. onboard spending does not get GST, and contractors onboard are not local employees so there is not payroll tax.

[Aussie71]

The carbon tax covers Australia's top 500 emitters. Given the ships aren't owned by Carnival Australia (off-shore registry), that limits them to the office workers, so the tax wouldn't apply to them.

 

I'd be surprised if it has any effect - unlike the recent increase in international departure tax, and upcoming increase in port charges in NSW.

 

Would there be an impact if the price of fuel increases? I guess that they refuel here in Australia.

 

The Prime Minister confirmed that fuel for 12 million motorists and small businesses would not be affected by the carbon tax, but sources said some large industries' fuel bills would be stung.

 

Source: http://www.theage.com.au/national/petrol-carbon-tax-inevitable-20110703-1gxci.html

[The_Big_M]

Would there be an impact if the price of fuel increases? I guess that they refuel here in Australia.

 

There would of course be an impact if the price of fuel was to increase, but that's already the case. The price of fuel has almost doubled over the past few years, so fares already have had to account for those increases.

 

That said, as the article you linked to says, fuel is not covered by the carbon tax. Hence, there is no impact.

[Aussie71]

There would of course be an impact if the price of fuel was to increase, but that's already the case. The price of fuel has almost doubled over the past few years, so fares already have had to account for those increases.

 

That said, as the article you linked to says, fuel is not covered by the carbon tax. Hence, there is no impact.

 

I have searched the internet and I'm not sure maritime fuel is exempt or will be subsidised unless a charity is involved.

[newfarmers]

even if it does affect the price of fuel the ever changing price of oil and value of the Aussie dollar will have a far greater effect

[The_Big_M]

I have searched the internet and I'm not sure maritime fuel is exempt or will be subsidised unless a charity is involved.

 

It doesn't need to be exempt and doesn't need to be a charity.

 

The carbon tax only applies to the top 500 companies. It's not a blanket coverage so your statement doesn't make sense.

[The_Big_M]

even if it does affect the price of fuel the ever changing price of oil and value of the Aussie dollar will have a far greater effect

 

The price of fuel has gone up $40 a barrel the past few years, and they haven't reinitiated the fuel supplement. Given the carbon tax isn't directly related to oil, any possible flow-on (boom-tish) effect would be tiny, and not have any direct cost on cruises. Fuel costs have gone up far more in the past few years than any carbon tax could cause.

[thied]

The price of fuel has gone up $40 a barrel the past few years, and they haven't reinitiated the fuel supplement. Given the carbon tax isn't directly related to oil, any possible flow-on (boom-tish) effect would be tiny, and not have any direct cost on cruises. Fuel costs have gone up far more in the past few years than any carbon tax could cause.

 

but the cruise ships run on bunker fuel oil which is not part of the world crude oil price, the only time they are running on diesel

[The_Big_M]

but the cruise ships run on bunker fuel oil which is not part of the world crude oil price, the only time they are running on diesel

 

It's a different price, but has had similar increases. Its index (i.e. average price across different ports) is up 40% from 2 years ago.

[thied]

It's a different price, but has had similar increases. Its index (i.e. average price across different ports) is up 40% from 2 years ago.

but the price of fuel went up world wide, at the moment we are seeing the dollor going and the price of fuel dropping by 13%-15% in the last three weeks, and fuel oil has gone up,

 

Do you realy think that the top 500 companys are not going to pass on the cost to us for the cost of the Carbon tax that they paying out?

[thied]

Ill post the Question Again and some one may have the asnwers

 

Does any one have any thoughts, or does any one know how or will Carbon Tax will affect cruise ships in Australia?

 

Are Australian Cruise ship Carbon Tax free?

 

How will Carbon Tax affect cruise prices?

[The_Big_M]

but the price of fuel went up world wide, at the moment we are seeing the dollor going and the price of fuel dropping by 13%-15% in the last three weeks, and fuel oil has gone up,

 

Not at all. The crude oil price has also gone down over a few weeks, in line with crude. And both have gone up over the past few days.

 

Do you realy think that the top 500 companys are not going to pass on the cost to us for the cost of the Carbon tax that they paying out?

 

Where did you come up with that? Companies pass their costs on, as their demand is in line with it. Cruise prices fell a few years back, not because of costs falling, but demand. And then prices went up last year, as demand did.

 

If a company can pass costs on it will. If a company can increase profits because of demand with no change in costs, it also usually will.

[The_Big_M]

Answers given. Didn't you like them the first time?

 

Are Australian Cruise ship Carbon Tax free?

 

The carbon tax covers Australia's top 500 emitters. Given the ships aren't owned by Carnival Australia (off-shore registry), that limits them to the office workers, so the tax wouldn't apply to them.

 

How will Carbon Tax affect cruise prices?

I'd be surprised if it has any effect - unlike the recent increase in international departure tax, and upcoming increase in port charges in NSW.

[thied]

Answers given. Didn't you like them the first time?

 

 

 

The carbon tax covers Australia's top 500 emitters. Given the ships aren't owned by Carnival Australia (off-shore registry), that limits them to the office workers, so the tax wouldn't apply to them.

 

 

I'd be surprised if it has any effect - unlike the recent increase in international departure tax, and upcoming increase in port charges in NSW.

 

yes good answer but you are one person out thousands on here.

 

abd as you have said a few times (Given the ships aren't owned by Carnival Australia (off-shore registry), that limits them to the office workers, so the tax wouldn't apply to them. ) then the prices on the ship should be cheaper as they are not paying any tax.

 

 

 

 

quote (unlike the recent increase in international departure tax, and upcoming increase in port charges in NSW.)

 

well that is a state tax not a fed tax.

[thied]

Not at all. The crude oil price has also gone down over a few weeks, in line with crude. And both have gone up over the past few days.

 

 

 

Where did you come up with that? Companies pass their costs on, as their demand is in line with it. Cruise prices fell a few years back, not because of costs falling, but demand. And then prices went up last year, as demand did.

 

If a company can pass costs on it will. If a company can increase profits because of demand with no change in costs, it also usually will.

nothing do with Demand and is not part of the question.

 

Are you saying that fuel and crude oil price have gone up in the lase few days,,,,,? mmmmmmm fuel in BRisbane droped from $149.00 to $131.00 yesterday, and still down tday and fuel oil stayed the same. please check oil prices on line.

[The_Big_M]

yes good answer but you are one person out thousands on here.

 

You asked for an answer, not an opinion. If you ask is a take-away hamburger covered by GST here, there's only one answer.

 

abd as you have said a few times (Given the ships aren't owned by Carnival Australia (off-shore registry), that limits them to the office workers, so the tax wouldn't apply to them. ) then the prices on the ship should be cheaper as they are not paying any tax.

 

Why would prices become cheaper? No tax went away.

 

(unlike the recent increase in international departure tax, and upcoming increase in port charges in NSW.)

 

well that is a state tax not a fed tax.

 

International departure tax is not a state tax, it is a federal tax. Not that that has anything to do with anything, as you were not asking about whether it's a state or federal tax.

 

These are examples of recent government increases that will have a clear and direct impact, unlike the carbon tax.

[The_Big_M]

nothing do with Demand and is not part of the question.

 

Oh dear. Demand is a very strong part of whether prices will rise.

 

Are you saying that fuel and crude oil price have gone up in the lase few days,,,,,? mmmmmmm fuel in BRisbane droped from $149.00 to $131.00 yesterday, and still down tday and fuel oil stayed the same. please check oil prices on line.

 

You're mixing up three different things, yet trying to compare them directly. Wholesale and retail prices, and then US and Australian rates.

 

Yes, local pump prices have fallen the past few days. However, they don't follow the wholesale price every day, and are in Australian rather than US dollars, as most of the Australian public knows!

 

Please check the wholesale prices for both these fuels, and the currency movements the past few days and then adjust.

[thied]

International departure tax is not a state tax, it is a federal tax. Not that that has anything to do with anything, as you were not asking about whether it's a state or federal tax.

 

These are examples of recent government increases that will have a clear and direct impact, unlike the carbon tax.

 

 

The NSW government’s new cruise ship head tax for passengers visiting Sydney Harbour is excessive, says peak industry body, the Tourism and Transport Forum.

The cruise industry estimates that this could be up to a 14-fold increase on ship turnaround costs in Sydney, from an average of $5,000 today to around $70,000 by 2015.

TTF Chief Executive, John Lee, said: “The cruise industry recognises that it should pay its fair share but this new charge goes beyond cost recovery and is designed to give Sydney Ports a new profit stream.

“It is regrettable that one of the bright spots for the Australian tourism industry is being hit this way – it’s a tax on success. It comes at a time when the cruise ship industry faces a 17% increase in the federal government’s passenger movement charge, so in the space of a month it has been wacked twice by governments.

“The industry recognises that the current fee structure needs reform. It had proposed a passenger charge of around $5 per head, which better reflects the actual cost of cruise ships staying at Sydney Harbour.

“The Minister for Ports has said that the success of the industry justifies imposing the charge.

“What the minister is forgetting is that none of this success is guaranteed, and the industry is operating in a highly competitive environment particularly with Asian ports.

“Overnight Sydney Harbour will become one of the world’s most expensive for cruise ships.

“TTF is particularly concerned that other States may consider following NSW’s lead and a $30 head tax in Sydney will rapidly escalate into one costing hundreds for passengers on ships visiting multiple ports.

“TTF urges the NSW government to undertake genuine consultations with the industry before the tax commences in 2013 to devise a system that more fairly recovers costs. Importantly, the government should also review the efficiency of Sydney’s ports, which cost more to operate than many overseas, so that they meet world’s best practice.

[Aus Traveller]

Thied, you are making my head spin by talking around and around in circles. ;)

 

The international departure tax is a federal tax and applies Australia wide while the New South Wales tax for cruise ship passengers using facilities in Sydney Harbour is a state tax.

 

Neither of these increases in related to the new carbon tax.

 

My response to your original question on whether people feel the carbon tax will increase prices for cruising - I don't feel it will directly, but there will probably be flow on costs to the cruiseline where items they require will increase in price. None of us can say whether the cruiselines can absorb any such increases of whether they will have to pass them on by increasing prices. If prices have to go up it won't be immediately, and can only be in the longer term when pricing structure is determined for future years' cruise schedules.