The Truth About Tipping

[P&OMAN]

The truth about tipping

Quite a good thread about how tipping has evolved within the cruise industry - over at the Cunard subforum

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showt...1#post35525575

[kingsgirl]

Link doesn't work.

[jsmeeker]

Try this

 

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1714431

[Scotty G]

Try this

 

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1714431

 

The truth about Auto Tipping

As on most of the Cruise Critic boards there are constant threads regarding tipping, the pros and cons of auto tips etc. As someone who really does know the truth on these issues I thought I would try to write a definitive guide to the subject.

 

As my screen name (navylark) suggests I have spent my whole career of over 40 years within the marine business – originally at sea for over 15 years and the remainder in senior positions ashore. So I really do know what I am talking about.

 

First some comments on the situation prior to the introduction of auto tipping.

 

To understand the background to ship board tipping you have to go back to the 1940s and 1950s. At that time ‘cruising’ as we know it today did not exist. Passenger shipping was just that – shipping passengers from one part of the world to another. Those were the days of ‘Rule Britannia’, the main passenger routes were dominated by British shipping companies who plied their separate trades. For instance Shaw Saville sailed primarily to New Zealand and Australia, Peninsular and Orient mainly to India and the Far East, whilst Cunard sailed to Canada and the United States and there were many other companies to numerous to mention. The ships were manned totally by British officers as were the vast majority of the crew. The only sections that tended to be foreign manned were the laundries that were usually Chinese. Certainly the hotel staff was totally British. The British officers and crew were well paid and so tipping simply followed the pattern that was normal in any shore side hotel. Any tips were pooled by the department heads and split according to an agreed system, the so called ‘tronc’ system as used in most shore side establishments to this day.

 

Moving on to the early days of cruising as we know it today, originally all of the officers of British operated cruise ships were British as were the vast majority of the hotel staff. The staff had simply moved from the traditional liner trades to the new cruise operations.

 

After World War II Cunard built a class of liner / cruise ships - all had names ending in IA – the forerunners were the Caronia and Saxonia . They were intended for the transatlantic liner trades in the summer and Caribbean or Alaskan cruise in the winter.

Again all the officers and crew were British and tipping followed the well established ‘tronc’ system.

 

Nothing showcased Cunard’s decision to focus on the cruise market (rather than transatlantic crossings) more than the Cunard Adventurer and her sister Cunard Ambassador.

These small ships, both a vast departure from "old Cunard" were painted all-white and had a non-traditional white and black funnel, similar to that aboard QE2.

Cunard Adventurer was the first of the company’s vessels in the 20th century to bear a name that did not end in “ia” or begin with “Queen.”

Along with her sister ship, Cunard Ambassador, Cunard Adventurer concentrated on ports in the Caribbean, Bermuda and Alaska.

Both ships experienced major financial, design and operational difficulties as Cunard struggled to make the transition to the Cruise market. One result was that the British dining room waiters and cabin stewards were made redundant and local Caribbean crew recruited. The traditional ‘tronc’ system for distributing tips continued but as the years passed and the crewing methods moved towards the multinational approach that exists today then problems developed. Basically the ‘tronc’ approach was not accepted by the new multinational crews and a more informal system became the norm. This meant that the crew member who received the tip kept it for himself. He then passed some on to the departments that he needed to keep sweet as he depended on their services to keep his guests happy. So the cabin stewards kept the laundry room sweet whilst the dining room waiters did the same for the kitchen crew. This approach lasted for many years but more recently real problems developed. As crewing became a major part of cruise ship operations with hundreds even thousands of crew movements every day then large companies closed or slimmed down their in house crewing operations. They subcontracted this activity to companies in countries such as the Philippines and India where the crew lived. The next problem was that crew on board the ships were ‘required’ to keep the shore staff in the crewing companies sweet to ensure they were returned to their favorite ships or were not kept waiting for a ship when their leave was finished. Meantime onboard an internal ‘tip mafia’ was developing. A long term crew member in say the laundry section would appoint himself as the ‘tip boss’, and would handle all the tips passed on to that department, often keeping the lions share for himself.

This whole raft of problems was further complicated by the ever increasing size of the ships and hence the passengers and crews onboard.

 

Eventually the major cruise companies realized something had to be done to reduce tensions amongst the crew and simplify the whole system. So Auto Tipping was introduced. This is the system currently in operation by the vast majority of cruise companies. It is fair and reasonable to the crews on board – but it causes much grief to a minority of passengers who resent being told what to do!!!

 

So in brief here is the ‘whys and wherefores’ of the current typical tipping regime on board.

 

Cruise companies believe that to increase wages and hence fares would reduce the incentive for crew to keep performing to a high standard day in day out for nine months of the year. Thus tipping is required. Crew wages are not as low as passengers are lead to believe. They are on the same level as is paid to hotel staff in their home countries, otherwise why would they leave their families for 9 months at sea?

 

The cabin stewards and dining room waiters are told if their passengers have opted not to Auto Tip.

 

The majority of passengers do Auto Tip, a minority of whom also give a top up tip to whom they please, Crew who receive these top up tips can keep them

 

A minority of passengers opt not to Auto Tip. Most, but by no means all, will pass a tip directly to crew who have served them. The crew who receive such direct tips are required to pass on a sum EQUAL to the tip they would have received had the Auto Tip not been removed, regardless of the sum they actually receive. So very, very, very, rarely the passenger will have made a direct tip over the required amount and the crew member can keep the difference. BUT more likely the passenger will have tipped MUCH LESS than recommended and so the crew member will have to make up the difference from his wages. It is not unusual for a passenger to fail to tip at all, and in that event a heavy burden can fall upon the unlucky crew member. This system may seem tough but without it then some crew members would be taking a share of the tips without having contributed their full share to the pool.

 

The distribution of tips is handled by the Crew’s Purser section who handles all crew administration onboard.

 

Wages are paid on board in cash every month (no tax deducted), with tips added or deducted, as may be the case

 

Clearly officers and staff grade hotel staff are paid salaries that are handled in a different way depending upon the cruise company involved.

 

So I’m sorry it took so long to get to a relatively brief explanation of the current Auto Tip system. But at least I hope it explains the back ground to tipping in the cruise industry. Please understand that not all companies necessarily operate in exactly the same way, but be assured it will only vary in minor ways.

 

So please will readers of this board who usually opt out of the Auto Tip system give some serious consideration to the effect of their action. Knowing the facts of the system I do hope they realise the problems they can cause

[foxesden1]

Good read thank you!

[gxchan]

Scotty G - thanks for a very informative post. I almost didn't open this thread b/c I've read too many tip threads, LOL, but I'm glad I did. I have one question: you mention that if a crew member receives a cash tip from a passenger who opted out of the auto tip and the cash amount is less than what the crew member would have received through the auto tip the crew member has to pay the difference between the cash and the auto tip amount, meaning they have to take cash from their own pockets to cover it, right? I could understand having to hand over the whole cash tip but supplementing it with their own cash seems wrong to me (not saying you are wrong, just the practice). In any case, again, thanks for a very informative read.

 

Ginnie

[Scotty G]

Scotty G - thanks for a very informative post. I almost didn't open this thread b/c I've read too many tip threads, LOL, but I'm glad I did. I have one question: you mention that if a crew member receives a cash tip from a passenger who opted out of the auto tip and the cash amount is less than what the crew member would have received through the auto tip the crew member has to pay the difference between the cash and the auto tip amount, meaning they have to take cash from their own pockets to cover it, right? I could understand having to hand over the whole cash tip but supplementing it with their own cash seems wrong to me (not saying you are wrong, just the practice). In any case, again, thanks for a very informative read.

 

Ginnie

 

Many thanks to Navylark for coming out with this on the Cunard Board!!! Here is the link to his post: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1714431

 

He will have to answer your question. I know on RCL that Head Waiters often share their gratuities with assistants and waiters that get stiffed by passengers.

[gxchan]

Many thanks to Navylark for coming out with this on the Cunard Board!!! Here is the link to his post: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1714431

 

He will have to answer your question. I know on RCL that Head Waiters often share their gratuities with assistants and waiters that get stiffed by passengers.

 

 

Ooops! Big thanks to Navylark for putting this together and Big thanks to Scotty G for reposting where I would see it:)

 

Ginnie

[NoVA Gal]

Thank you so much for posting this article! We are taking our first cruise in January, and were just learning about the prepaid tip option; we will definitely be doing that now.

 

Happy sailing, everyone!

[CreativeJourney]

Thank you for sharing this! :)

[FloridaMomma]

Oh boy - I didn't auto tip on Majesty this month. Now I feel bad! I mean, I over tipped what the suggested amount was, but I wish I would have seen this before. I will definitely pre-pay for our November trip.

[Mark_K]

My view is that any post that doesn't distinguish tipping policies by cruise line is not that helpful or accurate.

[pb3053]

A very interesting article by Navylark.

 

I have struggled with this decision on previous cruises as to pre-paying gratuities but have always done so and paid envelopes at the end of the cruise.

 

If Navylark's disclosure is true then I am glad I always pre-paid. However I have to say that having watched the Channel 4 Dispatches programme on the 1st October 2012 which featured an undercover report on the alleged way that the crew were financially being ripped off there wasn’t any mention of this aspect of a crew member having to pay out from his/her pocket if a passenger didn’t pay or withdrew gratuities !. I would have thought that it would have been a major topic of the so called 'exposure' as they seemed to cover everything else.

 

I am not trying to suggest that Navylark's disclosure is not true as I have no evidence of that but it does seem strange that a programme such as Dispatches who clearly were seeking such information didn’t mention it ? Perhaps their undercover crew member didn’t experience the problem. I also wondered where Navylark indicates ' the crew member will have to make up the difference', which crew member does this apply to ?. The stateroom steward, waiter, assistant waiter or all of them collectively ?.

 

 

I shall make a point of asking the Eclipse staff when I cruise next year.

 

 

I have to say that Navylark's article provides food for thought and if his assertion regarding the 'hotel crew' having to make up gratuity shortfalls because of a passenger withdrawing his gratuity payments is correct why have we not heard about it on these boards before ?. Tipping and the reason for and against it are frequently discussed and it seems incredible that no one has ever mentioned this aspect before.

 

[pb3053]

Further to the post re prepaid gratuities, I dont know if it is my ineptness in using the forum but I note a number of the links to navylarks posting dont work. On trying to find the original post attributed to navylark i note he has posted 26 posts that I can find and none relate to the lengthy post about pre paid gratuities. Am I barking up the wrong tree :confused:

[cruzincurt]

I shall make a point of asking the Eclipse staff when I cruise next year.

 

Personally, I don't think its any of my business. Just because it's on the internet doesn't mean its true.

 

I will continue to tip or pay the service charge as appropriate.

[gxchan]

A little late in the thread for this question but it is been bugging me. When you say the crew knows who has prepaid tips does that mean those who have prepaid before the cruise? I wait until I'm on the ship and fill out the form to charge the tips to my account b/c I like to use my OBC for them. So I wouldn't be on the list the crew gets, right?

 

Thanks!

[Scotty G]

A little late in the thread for this question but it is been bugging me. When you say the crew knows who has prepaid tips does that mean those who have prepaid before the cruise? I wait until I'm on the ship and fill out the form to charge the tips to my account b/c I like to use my OBC for them. So I wouldn't be on the list the crew gets, right?

 

Thanks!

 

The crew has access to their RCL accounts on the ship's network. As soon as gratuities are collected for a person or group who complete the form on board they appear in the crew members's accounts. If you prepay it appears in their account as soon as you are issued your Seapass and bing onto the ship.

[gxchan]

Thanks Scotty G! I like to take good care of those that take care of me and would hate if it during the cruise the cabin attendant/waiters thought they weren't going to get tipped.

[wwcruisers]

It is not unusual for a passenger to fail to tip at all,

Sadly, we were already aware of this fact, as many of them come here to gloat about it! :mad:

[sr4mjc]

Further to the post re prepaid gratuities, I dont know if it is my ineptness in using the forum but I note a number of the links to navylarks posting dont work. On trying to find the original post attributed to navylark i note he has posted 26 posts that I can find and none relate to the lengthy post about pre paid gratuities. Am I barking up the wrong tree :confused:

 

Glad it's not just me who's links don't work :confused:

[storm1of4]

Personally, I don't think its any of my business. Just because it's on the internet doesn't mean its true.

 

I will continue to tip or pay the service charge as appropriate.

 

 

 

OMG!:eek::eek::eek:

Thank you! Please tell me why folk on these boards always want to count the cruise staff's money!!! Yes it is good to know how the tipping practise came to be and how it has evolved......but that's where it stops for me.

Want to worry about someone's income? Be concerned about your own.

What, How and Why as it relates to the service staff tipped income is completely none of your business. You can choose to pay the suggested gratuity or not.....

[PattyG12]

If we auto tip and then give our room steward and dining staff additional, they get to put that into their pocket, correct?

[hubofhockey]

Crew wages are not as low as passengers are lead to believe. They are on the same level as is paid to hotel staff in their home countries, otherwise why would they leave their families for 9 months at sea?

 

 

It's interesting that this treatise, which attempts to build a case, has to ask a question. Please consider the link below if you really believe waiters and stewards get treated fairly. Also, even accepting your premise, we then must accept the premise that we are all okay with exploiting these employees merely because we can.

 

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2012/07/articles/crew-member-rights-1/carnival-fires-150-crew-members-from-india-for-protesting-low-cruise-ship-wages/

 

The above is CCL. Below relates to Celebrity Eclipse and RCCL.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/9579284/Cruise-ship-staff-paid-1.30-an-hour.html

 

I always consider the auto-tips to be a minimum baseline for tipping and pay cash tips on top to those who have personally served us (usually cabin steward and head waiter who deals with my wife's allergies. We choose anytime dining no matter what line we are sailing on and the head waiters provide more personal attention (since they and not the table waiters are our constant).

 

The biggest problem with gratuities is cultural as the cruising business has become more international and many non-US cultures view tipping differently. It doesn't make them cheap and it's cultural. Since this is the case, I believe that cruise lines should eliminate tipping. If, as the OP suggests, that tipping is really a means to drive up performance, maybe they would be better off terminating employees for poor performance and provide interim evaluations intead. At the same time, they could increase wages to what they believe actual tips per passenger really are. Of course, none of this will ever happen because the cruise lines would rather keep tips out of the cruise price. This is pretty cynical behavior on part of the major cruise lines. But as you can see from this thread, one cruiser actually plans to ask employees on a future cruise on the Eclipse how they are compensated. How uncomfortable (or creepy) is that?

[avatheps]

Great post. Thanks for so clearly setting the facts down for me.

[Debde]

I wish I could find the article posted that told just the opposite, Cash tips were better for the staff. Who the heck knows what is right or wrong. Just tip and let the employer and employees handle the rest.