Did crossings used to be shorter?

[pepperrn]

I too made a TA crossing on QE2 in 5 Days...fantastic speed across the atlantic, The France was equally impressive - these 2 were the last of true Transatlantic liners. Even the QM2 was built for cruises....really only a step sister to QE2......

The France (and Michelangelo & Raffaello?) was the last "pure" transatlantic express liner. She was in service for 12 years, rarely made money and was withdrawn when government subsidy stopped. Cunard nearly built "Q3" a larger version of the France, that would have equally unsuccessful, with both unsuited to cruising, the wrong ship for the wrong time. But thankfully they saw the light, cancelled and built QE2 instead, a very successful hybrid; liner and cruise ship in one. As proven by almost 40 years service. QM2 follows the same idea, liner and cruise ship in one.

Either QE2 & QM2 are liners that can also cruise, or neither are. Neither one is pure liner, neither one is a pure cruise ship.

Best wishes :) .

[guernseyguy]

Either QE2 & QM2 are liners that can also cruise, or neither are. Neither one is pure liner, neither one is a pure cruise ship.

Best wishes :) .

 

Precisely. One of the first things they did to France when converting her to Norway was to remove two screws- she could steam at 22knots on 2 - but needed the additional 2 to get her to ~30 knots - illustrating the price of high speed.

 

The only major difference between the QE2 and QM2 is that the former betrayed evidence of her original three class design (cut back to two at the insistence of the British in the teeth of American opposition before entry into service.) This helps explain her otherwise illogical stair tower set up.

[violetta58]

We just did New York /Canada which involved 2 transatlantics.Both were 6days and we averaged around 24 knotts on the way backs we were delayed by bad weather ,a couple of days we made 26 knotts and on the way to New York from Canada as we had a 7 hr delay due a medical emergency we made over 27knotts .I loved the speed and it was so smooth despite rough seas- a true ocean liner .

 

Next year they are all 7 days and one eight day which the crew we spoke to are not happy with as it's too long .Why don't they offer a five day crossing ,QM2 can certainly do it even if they have to charge more ? I would pay it and I think others would too for the experience.

[3rdGenCunarder]

Precisely. One of the first things they did to France when converting her to Norway was to remove two screws- she could steam at 22knots on 2 - but needed the additional 2 to get her to ~30 knots - illustrating the price of high speed.

 

The only major difference between the QE2 and QM2 is that the former betrayed evidence of her original three class design (cut back to two at the insistence of the British in the teeth of American opposition before entry into service.) This helps explain her otherwise illogical stair tower set up.

 

Ah yes, the old girl was a bit of a rabbit warren, with all those little side hallways (down in steerage). And the suprise endings of some of the stairways caused problems for those who didn't know the rule: E goes Everywhere, G is Good. One remnant of the old class system was the D stair/lift tower. D stairs were wide until you got down to deck 3 or 4, where they became narrow. D elevator didn't go down below deck 3. I saw an obviously lost passenger on 4 deck one time. I asked if I could help and he said he was looking for the D elevator. I said that it didn't go down to deck 4. "Yes it does!" he proclaimed, waving his deck plans in my face. So I left him to find it. :cool:

 

QM2's stairways are more straightforward, but the landings need better signage--either port/starboard or even/odd cabin numbers.

[3rdGenCunarder]

We just did New York /Canada which involved 2 transatlantics.Both were 6days and we averaged around 24 knotts on the way backs we were delayed by bad weather ,a couple of days we made 26 knotts and on the way to New York from Canada as we had a 7 hr delay due a medical emergency we made over 27knotts .I loved the speed and it was so smooth despite rough seas- a true ocean liner .

 

Next year they are all 7 days and one eight day which the crew we spoke to are not happy with as it's too long .Why don't they offer a five day crossing ,QM2 can certainly do it even if they have to charge more ? I would pay it and I think others would too for the experience.

 

I don't think so. I doubt there are enough ship nuts out there to pay a premium to go fast. Sad to say, but most cruisers don't care if she's a liner or if she can go fast. They just want a nice cruise. And yes, I know it's a crossing, not a cruise. But I suspect the majority of pax don't care about the difference.

[pepperrn]

And the suprise endings of some of the stairways caused problems for those who didn't know the rule: E goes Everywhere...

Endless Confusion!

Even "E for everywhere"...

didn't go to Sun Deck...

didn't go to Signal Deck...

didn't go to 6 Deck...

didn't go to 7 Deck.

QM2's stairways are more straightforward, but the landings need better signage--either port/starboard or even/odd cabin numbers.

I agree, simple Port/Starboard signs would be helpful, of course even/odd cabin numbers are on the cabin doors as soon as you leave the lobby.

But even QM2's lifts don't go "everywhere".

"A" lifts Decks 2-13.

"B" lifts Decks 1-12.

"C" lifts Decks 1-11.

"D" lifts Decks 2-12.

The outside scenic lifts only serve Decks 7, 8, 9 & 11 (and don't call at Deck 10, unless that Q2 suite is yours).

The inside scenic lifts only serve Decks 2, 3 & 7 (and don't call at Decks 4, 5 & 6).

Endless confusion!

Maybe QM2 and QE2 are closer than I first thought :) .

[cruisetrail]

3 days 10 hours and 40 minutes, set by the United States, is still the record crossing by a passenger liner. Now that's moving!:D

 

Between what points?

[pepperrn]

Between what points?

Ambrose Lightship to Bishop Rock. Average speed 35.59 knots.

[Jim Avery]

Between what points?

 

Ambrose Light off of NYC and Bishop Rock in the Channel. Oops, sorry Pepper. Guess I did not see your post first. Also, SS United States had a reported 45 knot top speed--over 50mph!!!

[bphman]

We sailed the SS France in 1967 from Le Harve to Southampton to NY. The trip from Southampton to NY was four and a half days. Opulent in every way.

[sfbearcat]

I for one would like QM2s return to the crossing schedules of 2009 ..plenty of sailing dates and still 5 full days at sea..this 6 seadays results in fewer choices and if it goes to 7 days forget it..thats a cruise ship style crossing..At a lecture a few years ago Stephen Payne spoke of Carnival wanting more of a standard cruise ship and he fought hard for a true liner.

[Rotterdam]

that is what differntiates her and made her more of a liner than a cruiser...I feel sorry for the sould that sail across the Atlantic or Pacific Oceans in cruise ships...bounce bounce bounce!

 

The France was quite a roller in her day but she sliced through those waves beautifully....

 

Oh you make my heart break when you bring up those Italian Line ships.....

 

 

Precisely. One of the first things they did to France when converting her to Norway was to remove two screws- she could steam at 22knots on 2 - but needed the additional 2 to get her to ~30 knots - illustrating the price of high speed.

 

The only major difference between the QE2 and QM2 is that the former betrayed evidence of her original three class design (cut back to two at the insistence of the British in the teeth of American opposition before entry into service.) This helps explain her otherwise illogical stair tower set up.

[guernseyguy]

...I feel sorry for the sould that sail across the Atlantic or Pacific Oceans in cruise ships...bounce bounce bounce!

 

I've crossed the Atlantic on:

 

QE2

QM2

Caronia (III)

QV

Golden Princess

Brilliance of the Seas

Seabourn Odyssey

 

Of the "cruise ships" QV handled the January North Atlantic well - of course she slowed down a lot in heavy seas - if anything she had this odd "shimmy" - but not uncomfortable.

 

Golden Princess was the least comfortable as when she hit a swell a shudder went down the ship. Brilliance and Odyssey had very flat seas.

 

The ship I have been on that moved most was undoubtedly QE2 - QM2 is quite a lot more stable.

[Jim Avery]

I've crossed the Atlantic on:

 

QE2

QM2

Caronia (III)

QV

Golden Princess

Brilliance of the Seas

Seabourn Odyssey

 

Of the "cruise ships" QV handled the January North Atlantic well - of course she slowed down a lot in heavy seas - if anything she had this odd "shimmy" - but not uncomfortable.

 

Golden Princess was the least comfortable as when she hit a swell a shudder went down the ship. Brilliance and Odyssey had very flat seas.

 

The ship I have been on that moved most was undoubtedly QE2 - QM2 is quite a lot more stable.

 

I agree QE2 was quite lively but none of the pounding and "shimmy" you refer to. QV, in a forward cabin, has a pronounced "boom" and the feeling of hitting a large pothole while on a bus then shake,shake, shake (the shimmy), even in slight Caribbean seas. QE2 would vibrate aft when the props partially cleared in heavy seas. The old Double Down Aft Bar would vibrate the drinks right out of the glasses when making time in heavy seas.:eek: Is that what they call "ambiance"??:D:D

[guernseyguy]

QE2 would vibrate aft when the props partially cleared in heavy seas. The old Double Down Aft Bar would vibrate the drinks right out of the glasses when making time in heavy seas.:eek: Is that what they call "ambiance"??:D:D

 

On one Winter Crossing the QE2 was pitching so much the wait staff formed a tunnel in the Mauretania restaurant passing passengers down it until they could be plonked in a seat! Great fun! Though the restaurant crowds were thinned out that day....

[pepperrn]

The major difference is the deep water hull on QE2... that is what differntiates her and made her more of a liner than a cruiser.

QE2 draft 9.94m 32ft.

QM2 draft 10.1m 33 ft.

 

Hope this helps, very best wishes, :)

[Jim Avery]

On one Winter Crossing the QE2 was pitching so much the wait staff formed a tunnel in the Mauretania restaurant passing passengers down it until they could be plonked in a seat! Great fun! Though the restaurant crowds were thinned out that day....

 

It is a good thing the tables were bolted down.:D

[guernseyguy]

QE2 draft 9.94m 32ft.

QM2 draft 10.1m 33 ft.

 

Hope this helps, very best wishes, :)

 

Ah.....but what about those notorious "flat bottoms"?:rolleyes:

[pepperrn]

QV, in a forward cabin, has a pronounced "boom" and the feeling of hitting a large pothole while on a bus then shake,shake, shake (the shimmy), even in slight Caribbean seas

QV did the "boom" and "shimmy" even in the Channel during quite mild seas; I was in the Commodore Club and the waves were hitting the bow at a 45 degree angle. One or two passengers there were ill on the spot :eek: , and a few made their excuses and went to their cabins ;) .

[pepperrn]

Ah.....but what about those notorious "flat bottoms"?:rolleyes:

Now, don't get personal :D . (:))

[dave_k63]

Ambrose Lightship to Bishop Rock. Average speed 35.59 knots.

Just curious - how fast does a battleship, cruiser or sub go?

[Louise D]

On one Winter Crossing the QE2 was pitching so much the wait staff formed a tunnel in the Mauretania restaurant passing passengers down it until they could be plonked in a seat! Great fun! Though the restaurant crowds were thinned out that day....

 

They used to do something similar in the Queens Grill too, and you can imagine how much worse the pitching and rolling could get in that location compared to the location of the Mauretania restaurant. My mother's seasickness used to strike her in the Queens Grill, even though she could be fine in our cabin on Deck 1.

[Rotterdam]

that the 2 ships are equals...in this instance size does matter! (along with design intent, age of design marine architecture). Enough said

 

 

QE2 draft 9.94m 32ft.

QM2 draft 10.1m 33 ft.

 

Hope this helps, very best wishes, :)

[violetta58]

I for one would like QM2s return to the crossing schedules of 2009 ..plenty of sailing dates and still 5 full days at sea..this 6 seadays results in fewer choices and if it goes to 7 days forget it..thats a cruise ship style crossing..At a lecture a few years ago Stephen Payne spoke of Carnival wanting more of a standard cruise ship and he fought hard for a true liner.

 

Stephen Payne was on our recent transatlantic and gave the same talk.I dont understand why Cunard who make such publicity about crossings are choosing to cut btbs and lengthen crossings.Like many people who work,time is of the essence and to have 7 and eight day crossings is too long and will be too slow IMHO.The voyage I have just done is two days longer next year.

 

QM2 works better at speed particularly in bad weather so Cpt Osprey told us and I beleive you would attract more younger people with a 5 day crossing as well as more sailing dates .I hope in 2014 they will go back to 6 days as I really want to do another transatlantic again !

[guernseyguy]

that the 2 ships are equals...in this instance size does matter! (along with design intent, age of design marine architecture). Enough said

 

Well, if you will pursue the point, then, yes, QM2 is superior to QE2 in sea handling.

 

As you argue, size and 40 years of advance in marine architecture make that almost inevitable.