Ensenada as Port of disembarkation

[Goofyisme]

[quote name='3418ahl']As you say, does not really matter...end result is one still cannot go on a trip other than with a stop in a foreign port of one sort or another. Unfortunately, not all of them are nice or interesting. It is also a shame that the Ensenada to Seattle cruise does not seem to be booking well so far, and I am assuming it is due to the departure point.

I believe one couple was able to book the B2B from Hawaii to Seattle, but instead of taking the full B2B, they are debarking in Victoria, which does not violate the act. Celebrity is booking it as a "partial" cruise. If one really wishes to take the b2b, they can look at this option and call Celebrity.[/QUOTE]

I am confused by your various posts. Do you believe that the BtoB Hawaii to Seattle is a legal booking?

[3418ahl]

As I stated, it is NOT a legal cruise in it's entirety. The people booking it are debarking in Victoria (not the US) instead of Seattle at the end of the cruise. This avoids violation and makes their cruise legal.

Victoria is the stop prior to where the ship debarks. They booked this as a "partial cruise" through Celebrity. It was posted on the roll call thread.

[DAllenTCY]

You cannot book Hawaii to Victoria, BC. The ship is sailing to Seattle, and that is what counts. The confusion lies with those who have booked from Sydney to Seattle (B2B2B) and those who are sailing from Ensenada to either Victoria or Seattle. Those are legal.
David
P.S. The OP wished to know if he could fly to Philadelphia at the end of the cruise, and the answer is maybe. Yes, there are a few connecting flights from SAN-PHL; however, I would recommend an overnight stay in San Diego. I would rather arrive home in the late aftenoon instead of at midnight. The only nonstop fight would be from LAX....10 am and 2 pm (and a red-eye at 10 pm).

[DaveFr]

[quote name='3418ahl']I don't think they are mixed up. The psva was originally part of the Jones Act (a section called "cabotage" applying to passengers). This section was turned into the PSVA, but believe what you will as to who is mixed up.[/QUOTE]

I don't see how the PSVA originally could have been part of the Jones Act, since the PSVA was enacted in 1886 and the Jones Act was not enacted until 1920. Do you have information to the contrary?

Dave

[3418ahl]

Sorry, my mistake, the couple is boarding the west coast cruise in San Diego and debarking in Victoria to avoid violation of the PSVA and not have to board in Ensenada:

Originally Posted by [B]constantcruiser[/B] [URL="http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=35920311#post35920311"][IMG]http://boards.cruisecritic.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif[/IMG][/URL]
I just spoke to Celebrity's "Partial Cruise Dept." (didn't know there was such a thing!), and the supervisor confirmed that you CAN board in San Diego as long as you disembark in Victoria. We'd like to spend a few extra days in British Columbia at the end of the cruise, so I think this would be ideal for us. There may be others who would be interested in this slightly abbreviated itinerary, too. All you'd miss (?) would be the drive to Ensenada the first day and the overnight sail into Seattle at the end.

However, thinking about it, since a b2b is really two seperate cruises as far as Celebrity is concerned, why couldn't they board in Hawaii and debark in Victoria if they wanted???

[DAllenTCY]

NOBODY is allowed to board in San Diego on May 7th.
If you miss the bus to Ensenada on May 6th from San Diego you are out of luck. If you have been told otherwise, please let me know who has misinformed you.
David
P.S. There is no such "Partial Cruise Department".

[bob278]

[quote name='DAllenTCY']NOBODY is allowed to board in San Diego on May 7th.
If you miss the bus to Ensenada on May 6th from San Diego you are out of luck. If you have been told otherwise, please let me know who has misinformed you.
David
P.S. There is no such "Partial Cruise Department".[/QUOTE]
That's interesting. So this is an example of a cruise where, if you miss boarding at the origin, you miss the entire cruise?

[DAllenTCY]

It happens all the time with Hawaii cruises....miss the ship in LA/SF/San Diego and you've missed the whole thing. That is why it is very important to remember to bring your passport or duplicate Birth Certificate with you for round trip Hawaiian cruises. You cannot fly to catch the ship in the islands.

David

[bob278]

[quote name='DAllenTCY']It happens all the time with Hawaii cruises....miss the ship in LA/SF/San Diego and you've missed the whole thing. That is why it is very important to remember to bring your passport or duplicate Birth Certificate with you for round trip Hawaiian cruises. You cannot fly to catch the ship in the islands.

David[/QUOTE]
I never thought about that. Another example of how the government defines start and end points regardless of how the cruise line sells it. The cruise is defined as LA/SF/SAN round-trip, but if you miss it and fly to Honolulu the government would treat it as HON - LA/SF/SAN and you would be SOL.

Talk about incentive to go in to the port a day or two early! :eek:

But you don't really need a passport to go to Hawaii unless you think you will get off the ship in Ensenada and not get back on.

[DAllenTCY]

BELIEVE ME.....you MUST HAVE either a passport or Birth Certificate for a Hawaiian Island closed loop cruise (some exceptions too lenghty to write) A Driver's License/Military ID/hospital footprint certificate are not sufficient to prove citizenship. You are leaving the US and returning to the US. It makes no difference whether you choose to get off the ship in Ensenada. You will be denied boarding if you do not have the necessary paperworik.
David

[bob278]

Well, as old as I am, I guess you are never too old to learn something new. Sort of the same rules as for the Caribbean, right?

[DAllenTCY]

I believe so. Anyway, there are always tears shed on sailing day by those who do not read their travel documents. Last month a couple was out $7,000+ because of it. Also, don't rely on what your travel agent tells you, they are sometimes wrong on this issue.
Photocopies of passports are useless, also. If you don't have the original, you are also out of luck at check-in.
David

[If only]

[quote name='3418ahl']Sorry, my mistake, the couple is boarding the west coast cruise in San Diego and debarking in Victoria to avoid violation of the PSVA and not have to board in Ensenada:

We tried that & that is not allowed. The names that are on the manifest in Ensenada must be on for the whole cruise, you cannot get off in Victoria. Due to the Jones Act / the PSVA. We are doing the cruise from Hawaii to Ensenada & wanted to stay on until Victoria & we are not allowed. they also advised us that any one that thinks they can do it will be denied boarding.

[fb0075]

STRANGE!!!!!!!!!

I,also, have been working on this for several hours and have talked to Lisette in the PARTIAL CRUISE DEPT:D (actually--emergency travel dept) handles this and it is called "Downlining"---
She told me that getting off in Victoria IS legal BUTTTTT if the ship misses the port, you will be responsible for $300pp plus fines(if any) from the us govt!

FRANK

[fb0075]

[quote name='DAllenTCY']NOBODY is allowed to board in San Diego on May 7th.
If you miss the bus to Ensenada on May 6th from San Diego you are out of luck. If you have been told otherwise, please let me know who has misinformed you.
David
P.S. There is no such "Partial Cruise Department".[/QUOTE]

Why are you so strong on this--
Do you work for Celebrity or the Govt?

Just curious
FRANK

[DAllenTCY]

OK, with that settled, consider this. On May 7th in San Diego, everyone onboard will need to go through US Imigration.
David

[DAllenTCY]

Yes, it is legal if you board in Ensenada (or bus to Ensenada from San Diego) on May 6th. You are not allowed to board on May 7th in San Diego and disembark in Victoria.
That is the point I'm trying too make.
David

[If only]

[quote name='DAllenTCY']Yes, it is legal if you board in Ensenada (or bus to Ensenada from San Diego) on May 6th. You are not allowed to board on May 7th in San Diego and disembark in Victoria.
That is the point I'm trying too make.
David[/QUOTE]

Since we were on the cruise from Hawaii to Ensenda, we wanted to stay on for the Pacific coastal cruise & get off in Victoria and were told it is not allowed.

[fb0075]

So where are we on this??? ;)
FRANK

[DAllenTCY]

I'm surprised to hear that. I've sailed on 6 or 7 times from either LA or San Diego to Vancouver, and there have always been guests who choose to disembark in Victoria. This includes Princess, Holland America and NCL.
David

[fb0075]

[quote name='If only']Since we were on the cruise from Hawaii to Ensenda, we wanted to stay on for the Pacific coastal cruise & get off in Victoria and were told it is not allowed.[/QUOTE]

Who told you this and in what dept?

frank

[DAllenTCY]

I'm just guessing, but maybe if you had asked to purchase Ensenada to Seattle, and get off iin Victoria, then you could do it. Obviously they do not have Ensenada to Victoria as an option for booking.
David

[Gonzo70]

[quote name='DAllenTCY']I'm surprised to hear that. I've sailed on 6 or 7 times from either LA or San Diego to Vancouver, and there have always been guests who choose to disembark in Victoria. This includes Princess, Holland America and NCL.
David[/quote]

Totally different situation and the PVSA does not come into play with what you are describing. If a cruise officially starts in LA or San Diego and ends in Vancouver it is a legal cruise "as is." Regardless of whether you stay on the entire cruise OR choose to leave early in Victoria the PVSA is not violated. What is at issue is booking a back-to-back cruise that would be illegal (i.e. Hawaii to Ensenada back-to-back with Ensenada to Seattle), but with the plan of exiting the second leg early to circumvent the PVSA violation.

[bob278]

[quote name='Gonzo70']Totally different situation and the PVSA does not come into play with what you are describing. If a cruise officially starts in LA or San Diego and ends in Vancouver it is a legal cruise "as is." Regardless of whether you stay on the entire cruise OR choose to leave early in Victoria the PVSA is not violated. What is at issue is booking a back-to-back cruise that would be illegal (i.e. Hawaii to Ensenada back-to-back with Ensenada to Seattle), but with the plan of exiting the second leg early to circumvent the PVSA violation.[/QUOTE]
OK. I "sort-of" get this. It's a classic example of the government's inconsistency. They define your trip as where you get off and on rather than how the cruise line defines it, but only if it supports their position.

Even though Celebrity defines the Honolulu-Ensenanda-Seattle as two distinct cruises, the government won't let you do it. They look at where you board and depart.

But try to make it a Honlulu-Ensenada-Victoria cruise and they still won't let you do it. Not because you board in Honolulu and get off in Victoria, but because the second cruise is defined as ending in Seattle. Is it any wonder that people think our laws are crazy?

We have folks on the first leg of our trip (Sydney-Honolulu) who plan to get off in Maui because the live there and other than notifying Celebrity, there was no problem. I know the PVSA/Jones Act mess doesn't come into play, but it's still the same principle of the cruise ending where you leave the ship.

The only logical thing I've seen in this discussion is the fact that you might book the cruise (at some risk) and get off in Victoria, but if the ship missed that port, you could be facing some fines. I think quite a few people would take that chance, but don't even have the option.

[Karynanne]

[quote name='3418ahl']As I stated, it is NOT a legal cruise in it's entirety. The people booking it are debarking in Victoria (not the US) instead of Seattle at the end of the cruise. This avoids violation and makes their cruise legal.

Victoria is the stop prior to where the ship debarks. They booked this as a "partial cruise" through Celebrity. It was posted on the roll call thread.[/QUOTE]

I would make very sure that Victoria is considered a "distant" foreign port. I doubt it.

We did a lot of investigation into taking the Honolulu to Seattle (B2B) cruises, and after doing the research, we decided to bow out. First we were told that we would have to disembark in Ensenada...take the bus back to San Diego...and then get on the bus once again, for the trip back to Ensenada to embark. BUT then there wasn't even a guarantee that we would be allowed on the ship.

We opted to change our plans and take a Transatlantic on Reflection instead.