QM2 no longer a TransAtlantic LINER

[bazzaw]

Hi Barry. Are you looking at shops in Manhattan only?

 

Hi S

 

Not so much "are" -- but "were" :) Yes - we never got off Manhatten Island (apart from a quick jaunt on the Staten Island Ferry) and it was Manhatten where we were disappointed with the shopping. Whereas London blows us away!! :)

 

I like your Museums -- did a tour of the NY Public Library, spent a day in the Metropolitan Museum of Art (funny name that!! -- but did you know that it KILLS the world famous British Museum IMO) )

 

Don't think much of your Opera House though!! :D

 

Don't know if we will ever get back to NYC. We would like to see some of southern USA - including a couple of B2B cruises on Allure and Oasis of the Seas to the Caribbean. And would like to see the western National Parks, plus a cruise up to Alaska.

 

 

Barry

[Jimsgirl]

How did you see her resume?

 

Past work experience forms part of the bio of officers in the Daily Events sheet placed in your cabin.

Sometimes it is interesting(???) reading!

[rubrrick]

In a way this debate has a lot in common with an exact opposite form of transport.

 

Concorde

 

An aircraft that offered a service that was allegedly no longer required.

 

If there was a need for a scheduled transatlantic service then I would like to think that any business would quickly recognise the need and a Vista class vessel would be just as capable as the Queen Mary to supply that service. Speed can always be coupled with navigation where the ship just steams around a storm as opposed to steaming through it..

 

At present all three Cunard ships are on a supposed world cruise itinerary and looking at the speeds these ships are cruising at shows absolutely no diffedrence between the fastest vessel or the slowest. Queen Victoria 12knots, Queen Mary 14 and the Queen Elizabeth 18. Speed eats fuel, fuel eats into profit. High speeds across the Atlantic are a thing of the past and it looks like they will never return.

 

Folks that enjoy these crossings appear to demand or want high speed... The king is dead, long live the new king. Are we perhaps seeing the queen Mary 2 being used more and more as a cruise ship and less and less as a Transatlantic *ferry :eek::eek:? ;) (humour)

 

*Ferry = merchant ship designed to carry passengers or cargo across an expanse of water.

 

You say liner, I say ferry

 

You say tomatoe, I say tomato :)

 

Darn, and here I thought that this was going to be a "crossing" not a "cruise", although a cruise ship sails across in as many days, on a straight shot.

 

Actually the QM2, at least for me, is more, about the after 6PM formal and social events, at least, that is my impression.

 

Rick

[turquoise 6]

Only two sailings from NY for B2B. out of 52 weeks!

 

That's sad. The Qm2 has lost it's legacy to be a True TransAtlantic liner, as was the QE2 and those Cunard ships before. The QM2 has given up or lost

the NEW YORK port base , and the regular Liner schedule.

[balf]

 

 

 

 

 

If there was a need for a scheduled transatlantic service then I would like to think that any business would quickly recognise the need and a Vista class vessel would be just as capable as the Queen Mary to supply that service. Speed can always be coupled with navigation where the ship just steams around a storm as opposed to steaming through it..

 

At present all three Cunard ships are on a supposed world cruise itinerary and looking at the speeds these ships are cruising at shows absolutely no diffedrence between the fastest vessel or the slowest. Queen Victoria 12knots, Queen Mary 14 and the Queen Elizabeth 18. Speed eats fuel, fuel eats into profit. High speeds across the Atlantic are a thing of the past and it looks like they will never return.

 

Folks that enjoy these crossings appear to demand or want high speed... The king is dead, long live the new king. Are we perhaps seeing the queen Mary 2 being used more and more as a cruise ship and less and less as a Transatlantic *ferry :eek::eek:? ;) (humour)

 

*Ferry = merchant ship designed to carry passengers or cargo across an expanse of water.

 

You say liner, I say ferry

 

You say tomatoe, I say tomato :)

 

Tosh. I don't agree that people want speed, except for a few Cunard geeks who long to cross the Atlantic in the roughest weather at the maximum speed.

 

The majority are quite happy to cross in comfort, take a little longer and enjoy the ship.

 

Maybe one day (and I hope you will) you will cross the pond aboard QM2 and also on one of the other Queens. You may then understand the difference.

 

And QM2 never, as you say steams through a storm, if it can be avoided, but if you have been aboard QM2 in rough conditions you know why the ship you call a ferry is unique.

 

David

[turquoise 6]

In a way this debate has a lot in common with an exact opposite form of transport.

 

Concorde

 

An aircraft that offered a service that was allegedly no longer required.

 

If there was a need for a scheduled transatlantic service then I would like to think that any business would quickly recognise the need and a Vista class vessel would be just as capable as the Queen Mary to supply that service. Speed can always be coupled with navigation where the ship just steams around a storm as opposed to steaming through it..

 

At present all three Cunard ships are on a supposed world cruise itinerary and looking at the speeds these ships are cruising at shows absolutely no diffedrence between the fastest vessel or the slowest. Queen Victoria 12knots, Queen Mary 14 and the Queen Elizabeth 18. Speed eats fuel, fuel eats into profit. High speeds across the Atlantic are a thing of the past and it looks like they will never return.

 

Folks that enjoy these crossings appear to demand or want high speed... The king is dead, long live the new king. Are we perhaps seeing the queen Mary 2 being used more and more as a cruise ship and less and less as a Transatlantic *ferry :eek::eek:? ;) (humour)

 

*Ferry = merchant ship designed to carry passengers or cargo across an expanse of water.

 

You say liner, I say ferry

 

You say tomatoe, I say tomato :)

The QM2 is NOT a ferry,It is a cruise ship. It was intended to be an Ocean Liner,but didn't live up to that role.

Many great Ocean Liners became cruise ships in their later life. Eg: France to Norway. The Mauritania, Statendam , Constitution ,Independence

The Rotterdam became a hotel.

[glojo]

The QM2 is NOT a ferry,It is a cruise ship. It was intended to be an Ocean Liner,but didn't live up to that role.

Many great Ocean Liners became cruise ships in their later life. Eg: France to Norway. The Mauritania, Statendam , Constitution ,Independence

The Rotterdam became a hotel.

I think it may well be a case of needs must... If the market was there the Queen Mary 2 would still probably remain ferrying :p;) passengers from Southampton to New York and vice versa but I would suggest it is no longer viable to have her devoted to this one single role and she has slipped into her new task of cruising the high seas offering her own perhaps unique style of cruising with the occassional ferry trip across the pond? Not sure about 'unique' and perhaps style might be a better word although she is the only ship with a planetarium.

 

What do we mean by 'liner' as opposed to cruise ship? I have my ideas but I would be interested to hear the observations of others that use this saying.

[turquoise 6]

I think it may well be a case of needs must... If the market was there the Queen Mary 2 would still probably remain ferrying :p;) passengers from Southampton to New York and vice versa but I would suggest it is no longer viable to have her devoted to this one single role and she has slipped into her new task of cruising the high seas offering her own perhaps unique style of cruising with the occassional ferry trip across the pond? Not sure about 'unique' and perhaps style might be a better word although she is the only ship with a planetarium.

 

What do we mean by 'liner' as opposed to cruise ship? I have my ideas but I would be interested to hear the observations of others that use this saying.

Ocean liners are designed and built to carry passengers across an ocean from one point to another,with a regular schedule. Cruise ships are designed

with a smaller draft to for holiday traveling and getting into more ports of call. A ferry is a boat in commercial service for transporting automobiles,people,ducks,chickens, horses,beer etc over a river or a comparatively small body of water.

[fantasy51]

I had always heard about the great shopping in New York - and this from Londoners. So we looked forward to our visit. However we were GREATLY disappointed in the shopping opportunities in New York. (compared to that available in London - eg even just considering Regent & Oxford Streets area).

 

Barry, I was in New York a few years ago and we spent a lot of time riding the tour buses. I was amused by the tour guides who pointed out places and told us what wonderful designer bargains you could get there, and then went on to say they had bought a suit there years ago and it was wonderful. If they are such bargains, why did these locals not have multiple outfits? All I could assume was that if you were fortunate enough to be there at the right time, and be the right size, you could get something good!

 

However, my sister took her daughter and grandchildren to the USA recently and shopped in normal malls and was amazed by the low cost of clothes as compared with Australia. They had to buy extra suitcases to bring back all their purchases. It might depend just what you want to buy.

[fantasy51]

Then, of course, there's always the Titanic 2 (if it eventuates) to do the transatlantic run ...

 

If passengers get used to doing without Queen Mary travelling the route, they may be happy to try something else.

Edited March 7, 2013 by fantasy51

[glojo]

Ocean liners are designed and built to carry passengers across an ocean from one point to another,with a regular schedule. Cruise ships are designed

with a smaller draft to for holiday traveling and getting into more ports of call. A ferry is a boat in commercial service for transporting automobiles,people,ducks,chickens, horses,beer etc over a river or a comparatively small body of water.

Hi Turquoise I understand what you are saying but the draught, displacement are all interesting factors.

 

My ferry remark was VERY much tongue in cheek but surely a ferry is a vessel that is designed to carry goods and\or passengers but I would very much disagree with your last part of the definition regarding small body of water!! English Channel might be deemed smallish but ferry services to Norway, Spain etc are certainly not. Then what about scheduled services to possibly New Zealand from Australia. Once a ship is transporting goods or passengers on a sceduled run then is it a ferry? It does sound silly and this remark was indeed tongue in cheek so can I call the World's biggest container ships ferries if they are on scheduled, regular runs? Thinking also of the old bannana boats :)

Your great Ocean going liners were quite small compared to the ships of today and I would suggest they were far, far and in fact FAR less stable than the modern Vista class cruise ship that some folks appear to be so critical of.

 

As I said previously I do have my own ideas of the differences but is it draught or beam?.

[turquoise 6]

Hi Turquoise I understand what you are saying but the draught, displacement are all interesting factors.

 

My ferry remark was VERY much tongue in cheek but surely a ferry is a vessel that is designed to carry goods and\or passengers but I would very much disagree with your last part of the definition regarding small body of water!! English Channel might be deemed smallish but ferry services to Norway, Spain etc are certainly not. Then what about scheduled services to possibly New Zealand from Australia. Once a ship is transporting goods or passengers on a sceduled run then is it a ferry? It does sound silly and this remark was indeed tongue in cheek so can I call the World's biggest container ships ferries if they are on scheduled, regular runs? Thinking also of the old bannana boats :)

Your great Ocean going liners were quite small compared to the ships of today and I would suggest they were far, far and in fact FAR less stable than the modern Vista class cruise ship that some folks appear to be so critical of.

 

As I said previously I do have my own ideas of the differences but is it draught or beam?.

Hi G. Yes ,I have seen the ferries that sail in Northern Europe . They look like cruise ships.

The Ocean liners of the past were smaller,but they were stable and were beautiful to look at and sail on.

The Qm2 is a stable ship,but i have been in a few big storms on the transatlantic ,and the ship "rocked" . I remember hitting a storm and I could

not walk in my stateroom.

I don't think the vista ships are stable for the transatlantic run,as they were made for cruising in shallow ports. the draft is not deep enough

[bazzaw]

Hi G. Yes ,I have seen the ferries that sail in Northern Europe . They look like cruise ships.

The Ocean liners of the past were smaller,but they were stable and were beautiful to look at and sail on.

The Qm2 is a stable ship,but i have been in a few big storms on the transatlantic ,and the ship "rocked" . I remember hitting a storm and I could

not walk in my stateroom.

I don't think the vista ships are stable for the transatlantic run,as they were made for cruising in shallow ports. the draft is not deep enough

 

The use of the word "stable" in this context is not a good use of the word. Ship stability is a very complex matter. I think that you are probably referring to the "comfortableness" of cruiseships/liners rather than their stability. For example, a catamaran has a very high level of "stability" -- but it is also very "stable " in the upturned condition, but not very comfortable. Vista class ships are designed to be "comfortable" for passengers with minimum rolling, but that does not mean that they are very "stable" - in fact my understanding is that , the more comfortable a ship is the less stable she is. Stability really means -- will she stay upright under a wide range of conditions, and if she does roll over, will she right herself. (Something that is very important when considering sailing boat designs) . What will she do if she is damaged? Costa Concordia basically turned turtle when she was holed - as I am sure the Vista class ships would do also.

 

 

Barry

[Norfolk Brit]

Hi Turquoise I understand what you are saying

 

Really???:eek: Doesn't that worry you?

 

Sir Martin

[glojo]

Really???:eek: Doesn't that worry you?

 

Sir Martin

;) Ouch... It really hurts when I laugh

 

The use of the word "stable" in this context is not a good use of the word. Ship stability is a very complex matter. I think that you are probably referring to the "comfortableness" of cruiseships/liners rather than their stability. For example, a catamaran has a very high level of "stability" -- but it is also very "stable " in the upturned condition, but not very comfortable. Vista class ships are designed to be "comfortable" for passengers with minimum rolling, but that does not mean that they are very "stable" - in fact my understanding is that , the more comfortable a ship is the less stable she is. Stability really means -- will she stay upright under a wide range of conditions, and if she does roll over, will she right herself. (Something that is very important when considering sailing boat designs) . What will she do if she is damaged? Costa Concordia basically turned turtle when she was holed - as I am sure the Vista class ships would do also.

 

Excellent points and I would LOVE to hear what Jim Avery has to say regarding Vista vs Queen Mary 2.

 

I'm afraid I totally, 100% disagree with turquoise 6 and find his post really controversial. Note I am politely disagreeing and NOT arguing or being impolite.

 

Can the North Atlantic throw anything at a cruise ship it will not experience in the Pacific or South Atlantic? I have sailed the high seas and the North Atlantic does not immediately spring to mind when I think about 'My roughest rides' (I'm not thinking about Bangkok or Mombasa) :o;)

 

If we count the number of cruise ships that regularly cross the Atlantic, would that number far exceed those made by the single ship.. Queen Mary 2?

 

What about the South Atlantic that regularly sees cruise ships plying their trade?

 

The older MUCH BETTER LOOKING ocean liners were really uncomfortable in any type of sea, although 'uncomfortable' is perhaps a poor choice of words. They would 'move' far, far more than a modern cruise ship is perhaps a better wording..

 

I have no idea why we single out the Queen Mary as being a 'rock' when it comes to sailing the high seas and how does she compare to all the other modern goliaths of the sea?

 

I take issue with bazzaw when he talks about the sinking of the Costa Concordia as to me a cruise ship or ocean liner is not a warship, they are passenger ships designed for luxury travel and comfort. If any cruise ship\liner were CRAZY enough to have exchanged names and addresses with that rock, I would suggest the end result MIGHT have still been the same ALTHOUGH I doubt the casualties would compare but that last point is speculation. Is it the size of the hole that can spoil the day of a ship, or is it is usually the LENGTH of the pesky thing that can consign the ship to a visit to that vast locker owned by Davy Jones? Once the design number of compartments gets flooded then is the ship doomed. :eek:

 

Now we get to my own thoughts regarding the difference between old and new and again I bow to better qualified folks on this issue and my posts are wrote to stimulate debate.

 

My thoughts here are that modern ships are designed for both comfort and the maximum number of passengers that can be carried in the style that is required.

 

May I suggest this design is similar to a block of flats laid on its side!!! (A luxury block of flats) :D Anything after the last flat might dig into the profits so in my opinion are the bows of the older ships more pointed compared to that angle we see on modern 'cruise ships?)

 

Is it this blunt angle of the bow that will cause the slamming, the vibration that is felt when steaming through heavier seas? Is it this effect that can be felt in rough seas and folks believe the modern cruise ship is less stable? Note these are questions as I have never set foot on these beautiful ships.

 

It is plain wrong to suggest these modern ships roll more than their older, 'liners' it is plain wrong to suggest they are not suited to operate a 'ferry' service across the North Atlantic. When the Queen Mary 2 sailed from new York ahead of a storm the captain quite CORRECTLY plotted\planned a course to avoid this known weather. That is good seamanship, it was not a hurricane, it was 'just' a storm. The Queen Mary 2 cannot walk on water, she 'canna defy the laws of fizzicks Jim!' She will ALWAYS come off second best if she tries taking on Mother Nature but YES, a thousand times yes, she has a MUCH better designed bow that will in my opinion offer a more comfortable experience when steaming through heavy seas at a higher speed than the modern cruise ship, but is she more 'stable' (less roll than a similar sized ship).

 

I am always requesting footage of any LARGE cruise ships that is rolling when negotiating heavy seas or storm\hurricane conditions but so far the only footage I see leaves me in awe regarding how upright they remain and YES they have modern, complex pieces of equipment that is designed to do this but from what I have read, even without deploying the stabilisers these ships will still be exceedingly stable.

 

Finally I will be steaming across the North Atlantic in a Vista class ship in early January next year just like these Vista class do most years and so far there have not been any incidents and last year I recall the P&O ship that was on its North America\Canada cruise negotiating around a couple of VERY large hurricanes!

 

Old liner and Queen Mary 2 very nice, sleek bow; newer, cruise ships a blunt, short, stubby bow.

Edited March 8, 2013 by glojo

[bazzaw]

I have sailed on 4 blocks of flats so far - they are the P&O Arcadia, QE and QV (all Vista class ships) - and RCI Voyager of the Seas. Mostly, any big blows that came along on these ships saw us with quartering swells/waves and they all performed quite nicely. In particular, I had a distinct feeling on VOS that she was riding like a train on tracks.

 

BUT!! - and this is a really BIG BUT!! :D -- we were forced to tackle a Force 11/gusting into Force 12 (officially a violent storm at force 11 and a hurricane at force 12??) HEAD ON while in the Atlantic on Arcadia. We were on route to Barbados (actually heading for the Azores but that had to be cancelled.) The reason it had to be cancelled was because this Vista class ship did not like BIG seas coming head on to her at all - and they had to slow the ship to 10 knots to prevent damage (to the ship and/or passengers) . I think this is where these modern design ships are weak - being forced to face huge seas head on. It is not always possible to avoid storms -- this one was so big that it basically covered an enormous area of the Atlantic and I believe that the Captain had no alternative but to commit to his course. We all survived of course -- but I would much have preferred at that time to be on QM2 :D

 

Barry

[glojo]

I have sailed on 4 blocks of flats so far - they are the P&O Arcadia, QE and QV (all Vista class ships) - and RCI Voyager of the Seas. Mostly, any big blows that came along on these ships saw us with quartering swells/waves and they all performed quite nicely. In particular, I had a distinct feeling on VOS that she was riding like a train on tracks.

 

BUT!! - and this is a really BIG BUT!! :D -- we were forced to tackle a Force 11/gusting into Force 12 (officially a violent storm at force 11 and a hurricane at force 12??) HEAD ON while in the Atlantic on Arcadia. We were on route to Barbados (actually heading for the Azores but that had to be cancelled.) The reason it had to be cancelled was because this Vista class ship did not like BIG seas coming head on to her at all - and they had to slow the ship to 10 knots to prevent damage (to the ship and/or passengers) . I think this is where these modern design ships are weak - being forced to face huge seas head on. It is not always possible to avoid storms -- this one was so big that it basically covered an enormous area of the Atlantic and I believe that the Captain had no alternative but to commit to his course. We all survived of course -- but I would much have preferred at that time to be on QM2 :D

 

Barry

Good points and we must all accept you were there.. My thoughts are that could it have been the schedule that stopped the visit as opposed to the risk to the ship? Question

 

I have been up in the Artic Circle in horrendous conditions that saw a frigate so badly damaged it had to limp back to the UK but in those same seas we had small trawlers, tankers (RFA's) and of course other warships that all survived those self same conditions.

 

No matter the size of ship, Mother nature will always come out the winner, Queen Mary with that bow to me has the avantage over those modern Vista class ships BUT... As we saw when she left New York prior to that storm, she quite wisely, quite understandably went around it!

No ship can take on the full force of nature.

 

The ship did not take this course just to waste fuel, she did it because it was the safest, most prudent thing to do. The Vista class would have no doubt done the same thing but I take your point about steaming at 10 knots in the conditions you describe and on my little frigate I am guessing that although these things are designed to operate all year round in the North Atlantic, 10 knots would not have been a speed we would have enjoyed maintaining!!

 

I think we both agree that it is probable that the Queen Mary could negotiate the weather at a very slightly higher speed.. 2 knots over a 24hr period is getting on for 500 miles which is a lot of ground but I have NO idea how she would have faired because as you rightly point out it is NOT just wind speed that will effect the ship.

 

Was it last year when there were two VERY large hurricanes that had the nerve to travel up the Eastern freeboard of the North coast of the USA? If so that was when my sister was on the P&O ship and this hurricane was attracted to that ship like a moth to a bright light although the captain kept the ship well away from these 'forces of nature' :).

 

I am defending these modern cruise ships simply because I feel that some folks are using rose tinted glasses when they talk about the very nice Queen Mary 2..

 

On the other side of this coin.

I would ask is she and all other ships of her size too large for the cruising role she is now taking on? Clearly the powers that be say no and quite clearly she has a lot of followers but what about those ports she visits?

 

How many are in the centre of town compared to those in the heart of a commercial dock or perish the thought, at anchor in a sheltered bay!! The Queen Mary 2 will never enter Torbay simply because of its size, draught etc and that is sad. Not sad because I am talking about a specific location, but sad because this type of location ANYWHERE in the World will be barred from her and all other ships of a similar size. If they did try to visit this type of location, she would need to anchor a considerable distance from land and then I dread to think what would happen if during the visit, the weather took a turn for the worse!!

[turquoise 6]

Really???:eek: Doesn't that worry you?

 

Sir Martin

so u had a sword banged on top of your head by Queen of

England. Therefore the Sir,a knight of the round table> She must have given you BRAIN DAMAGE by the

BANG !! hehehehe

[turquoise 6]

I have sailed on 4 blocks of flats so far - they are the P&O Arcadia, QE and QV (all Vista class ships) - and RCI Voyager of the Seas. Mostly, any big blows that came along on these ships saw us with quartering swells/waves and they all performed quite nicely. In particular, I had a distinct feeling on VOS that she was riding like a train on tracks.

 

BUT!! - and this is a really BIG BUT!! :D -- we were forced to tackle a Force 11/gusting into Force 12 (officially a violent storm at force 11 and a hurricane at force 12??) HEAD ON while in the Atlantic on Arcadia. We were on route to Barbados (actually heading for the Azores but that had to be cancelled.) The reason it had to be cancelled was because this Vista class ship did not like BIG seas coming head on to her at all - and they had to slow the ship to 10 knots to prevent damage (to the ship and/or passengers) . I think this is where these modern design ships are weak - being forced to face huge seas head on. It is not always possible to avoid storms -- this one was so big that it basically covered an enormous area of the Atlantic and I believe that the Captain had no alternative but to commit to his course. We all survived of course -- but I would much have preferred at that time to be on QM2 :D

 

Barry

HEAD ON?? you mean bow first? if so, this is what Ocean liners do in heavy seas...

[NomDePlume]

so u had a sword banged on top of your head by Queen of

England. Therefore the Sir,a knight of the round table> She must have given you BRAIN DAMAGE by the

BANG !! hehehehe

 

Popcorn at the ready...

[turquoise 6]

Popcorn at the ready...

Trouble maker!!!!!

[Norfolk Brit]

so u had a sword banged on top of your head by Queen of

England. Therefore the Sir,a knight of the round table> She must have given you BRAIN DAMAGE by the

BANG !! hehehehe

 

Once she'd calmed down, and that took a while I can tell you, the Queen ordered that her correct title be used in future: Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and of her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith.

 

I am given to understand that if you fail to comply, not only will you have a sword banged on top of your head, but the offending article will be removed sharpish. She is not a woman to be trifled with.

 

Sir Martin

Edited March 8, 2013 by Norfolk Brit

[3rdGenCunarder]

Once she'd calmed down, and that took a while I can tell you, the Queen ordered that her correct title be used in future: Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and of her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith.

 

I am given to understand that if you fail to comply, not only will you have a sword banged on top of your head, but the offending article will be removed sharpish. She is not a woman to be trifled with.

 

Sir Martin

 

Goodness, I thought that the ceremony involved a light touch to the shoulders, not a bang on the head. For what great service to Crown and Country were you knighted in such a fashion?????

Edited March 8, 2013 by 3rdGenCunarder

[Cruachan]

Goodness, I thought that the ceremony involved a light touch to the shoulders, not a bang on the head. For what great service to Crown and Country were you knighted in such a fashion?????

 

He bought the knighthood at a car boot sale just outside Norwich in 1997!

 

J

[balf]

If they did try to visit this type of location, she would need to anchor a considerable distance from land and then I dread to think what would happen if during the visit, the weather took a turn for the worse!!

 

I don't think anyone has ever been abandoned on shore because the tenders could not operate to get them back on board, though I stand to be corrected. Obviously they are very cautious on this and I have known on more than one occasion when a tendering has been abandoned before it started because of doubts about the sea conditions, not at the start but later in the day.

 

And it is true that if you choose to sail on a big ship like Qm2 you will often be parked up in a commercial dockyard, sometimes miles out of town.

 

The solution is to sail smaller ships where the ports of call can be really interesting.

 

Cunard does not have small ships.

 

David.