New CAS tier calculation contrary to historical treatment?

[PokerDave]

I can't speak for the CAS people. However, if I were looking at your records and I saw that you took a comped cruise and did not "play much", I certainly wouldn't rank you as one of my "best customers".

 

My point is I play a lot. I am and have been worth a lot to them... right up until the point that I decide that my gambling budget isn't getting a good return and walk. But I would still take this next cruise they comped me for. If I cruise free and don't play much, that would obviously sever the relationship. And I don't want to hear anyone whine that if I take the comped cruise and don't play much that I'd be somehow ripping them off. If they give you a comped cruise, you already paid for it the last cruise. They reasonably expect what people with my history are worth, but I am in no way obligated to give it to them. Nor are they obligated to comp me a room... But they do...

 

And if they change their program and I and others walk who have been worth significant dollars to them, then unless they are somehow picking up more $$$ from new folks that ARE attracted to the new program, then THEY aren't better off.

 

If I am them I would want to know that I have bitten the hand that feeds me...

[NLH Arizona]

WOW!!!! How exactly did I get to be the bad guy here? I completely understand that casinos are in business to make money. Trust me that in several decades of playing in them that I understand them very well, what their motivations are, that they are businesses, fine... They certainly make money from me. I just try to minimize it. I'm not out to rip them off.

 

I also am a consumer and want to get a good return for my gambling dollar. Cutting my nose off to spite my face? Really?

 

Ship casinos have return percentages on their machines that are abysmal. They have you as a captive audience for the cruise and thus have no competition while you are on board. They are making MUCH more money per spin on the slots than land based casinos.

 

Cutting my nose off to spite my face would be playing in ship casinos and not getting something other than the return percentage of the machines...

 

Am I a bad guy if I want the few thousand bucks I'm WILLING to lose in the casino during cruising this year to last a little longer or get another $100 in perks?

 

Casinos are smart. This one screwed up. Me pointing it out in this thread is just a normal part of the give/take between player and casino. The casino always wins in the end. The ONLY question is how much...

 

But my main purpose with this post was curiosity about whether others had been specifically encouraged to get separate accounts while at the same time being assured this wouldn't be a bad thing for us. Having rules and changing them is fine. Deliberately misleading your customers isn't. That is part of the reason why when they make changes like this they typically grandfather people in generously. I'm sure the casino manager that assured me that playing separately was fine absolutely believed what he said at the time and in the past that has been the case. They need to take that into account when they change their system from being based on the combined play of my wife and I to just each of us individually...

How many other cruise lines even have a players program for their casinos? I think NCL is very appreciative of the gamblers on board with their program. Even if one doesn't gamble much, they get promotional offers, exclusive embarkation, birthday offers and that is pretty generous, because on other cruise lines all you get is nothing but a good time gambling. How are they misleading customer, I wasn't mislead on anything. Was it because someone told you the wrong tier? I wouldn't call it misleading (you really think they told you the wrong tier on purpose), I would call it a mistake by an employee that didn't know the program well. Yes, NCL should have made sure their employees were fully aware of the changes to the program. Did you ever thing that the casino manager who said it was okay to use the same card, was just saying that to you to either (1) get a tip or (2) just made a mistake when they told you that.

 

I never said you were the bad guy, I just don't understand someone automatically saying: Well I won't gamble as much. Which means "I'll show them" or "I'll make them give me what I want".

 

I guess if one doesn't like the new program or how it is implemented, then don't gamble on the ship, but, then again, if you don't, your perks will be zero....everyone has the choice!

[PokerDave]

How many other cruise lines even have a players program for their casinos?

 

I never said the program was bad generally. They are indeed the best one to my knowledge at sea, or as a gambler I wouldn't have been there the last 5 cruises would I?... That doesn't mean that they are necessarily good enough to offset the horrible return percentages they program their slots and video poker for. There is a breakover somewhere where you say, you know what, I'll just pay for my cruise, and gamble a lot less.

 

(you really think they told you the wrong tier on purpose)? I would call it a mistake by an employee that didn't know the program well.

 

No, I don't think they told me that to purposely mislead me. Lots of people across lots of CAS employees were given incorrect information. Near as I can tell they did something in their initial calculation of what tiers people were that either was an outright mistake (understandable but bad) or they decided was too generous and changed (I think based on what I've heard from others and the incorrect explanations I've been given by NCL to be more likely).

 

Did you ever think that the casino manager who said it was okay to use the same card, was just saying that to you to either (1) get a tip or (2) just made a mistake when they told you that.

 

The casino manager didn't say it was OK to play on one card. We were already doing that on our own. What he said was that he wanted us to get separate cards, but also assured us that he and CAS take into consideration a husband and wife's combined play when giving out comps like dinners, etc and when deciding on comped rooms.

 

In any event, my issue isn't with the casino manager, it is with a system that we played in understanding we were a combined unit that now has changed to a new individual tier system that has caught both me and my wife a tad short of a tier level each while also dropping off a whole cruise worth of points by only a week. These are things that a human host would easily take into consideration and do the right thing. When you relegate it to hard numbers and computers you treat some people more poorly than you likely wanted to. Combine that with mis-informing us initially of our levels and telling us we were levels that we would reasonably expect to be and were happy with and that is why I am perturbed...

 

I never said you were the bad guy, I just don't understand someone automatically saying: Well I won't gamble as much. Which means "I'll show them" or "I'll make them give me what I want".

 

NO, it doesn't mean "I'll show them". What I meant was they risk losing a customer. I already earned the next cruise. They even have said as much to me at CAS. There IS no such thing as a free cruise. If you didn't play enough to cover it the last time, there is no comped cruise. The only question is do I want to play enough on this next cruise to keep getting them comped.

[suz1607]

NCL has the best casino program on any ship. Most of us have enjoyed their comps in one way or the other through the years and I have always found them to be fair though sometimes different depending on the Host. I am going to give this new program a chance by continuing to play as I have. Who knows I may like it better.

[Fishbait17]

NCL has the best casino program on any ship. Most of us have enjoyed their comps in one way or the other through the years and I have always found them to be fair though sometimes different depending on the Host. I am going to give this new program a chance by continuing to play as I have. Who knows I may like it better.

 

This is a great attitude. I think the major difference is that, with the new tiers clearly outlined, the casino manager won't have any leeway in extending benefits as they see fit. CAS has always been fair to me too, but I have to say that this fiasco of a rollout is ugly.

 

I have been extremely loyal to CAS, for my own reasons. Have never liked that any comps were at the discretion of the specific casino manager, but lived with it. Loyalty on both sides is the main factor here - they expect loyalty from us, while suddenly showing no loyalty in return. Will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

 

For the record PokerDave, your December 2011 cruise wouldn't have counted if it was taken in January, the new qualifying period seems written in stone now - April 1-March 31. I definitely agree with you that something happened behind the scenes causing them to revoke the status of grandfathered players - not a miscalculation as they are saying while back pedaling. Your December sailing is further proof to me that something is amiss at CAS, causing these revocations.

 

Robin

[NLH Arizona]

I never said the program was bad generally. They are indeed the best one to my knowledge at sea, or as a gambler I wouldn't have been there the last 5 cruises would I?... That doesn't mean that they are necessarily good enough to offset the horrible return percentages they program their slots and video poker for. There is a breakover somewhere where you say, you know what, I'll just pay for my cruise, and gamble a lot less.

Knowing that the return percentages are horrible, doesn't mean that they have to offer you anything, other than a good time gambling. To me they are being very generous giving any perks.

 

No, I don't think they told me that to purposely mislead me. Lots of people across lots of CAS employees were given incorrect information. Near as I can tell they did something in their initial calculation of what tiers people were that either was an outright mistake (understandable but bad) or they decided was too generous and changed (I think based on what I've heard from others and the incorrect explanations I've been given by NCL to be more likely).

But you said that they were misleading people, how are they doing that? Giving you the wrong tier or the Casino Manager who told you incorrect information (do you then think he told you that on purpose).

 

The casino manager didn't say it was OK to play on one card. We were already doing that on our own. What he said was that he wanted us to get separate cards, but also assured us that he and CAS take into consideration a husband and wife's combined play when giving out comps like dinners, etc and when deciding on comped rooms.

Then the manager knew that it was wrong to use one card (since you say he wanted you to get separate cards) and gave you some incorrect information, I guess that should be a lesson learned.

 

In any event, my issue isn't with the casino manager, it is with a system that we played in understanding we were a combined unit that now has changed to a new individual tier system that has caught both me and my wife a tad short of a tier level each while also dropping off a whole cruise worth of points by only a week. These are things that a human host would easily take into consideration and do the right thing. When you relegate it to hard numbers and computers you treat some people more poorly than you likely wanted to. Combine that with mis-informing us initially of our levels and telling us we were levels that we would reasonably expect to be and were happy with and that is why I am perturbed...

Your issue should be with the casino manager, after all, he was the one that gave you the wrong information about combining both cards. I've never heard of any casino (you seem to gamble a lot, does any other casino do this)that has combined more than one card when giving perks, why would NCL be any different. I'm sure the reason that they turned to numbers and computers is because of the human hosts were giving away more than what NCL expected (possibly to get tips, possibly to calm irate customers down after losing too much, possibly just to get a passenger off their back because they kept asking for free things - who knows). I don't see where you think some people are treated more poorly, the program gives perks out depending on how much one plays...the more you play, the more perks you get...sounds sensible to me. Sorry that you are pertubed because someone gave you the wrong information, I'm sure it was not on purpose.

 

NO, it doesn't mean "I'll show them". What I meant was they risk losing a customer. I already earned the next cruise. They even have said as much to me at CAS. There IS no such thing as a free cruise. If you didn't play enough to cover it the last time, there is no comped cruise. The only question is do I want to play enough on this next cruise to keep getting them comped.

Exactly, what you are saying is "I'll show them, they are risking losing me as a customer, if they don't do it the way I want and make me happy".

 

See my comments in red.

[NLH Arizona]

NCL has the best casino program on any ship. Most of us have enjoyed their comps in one way or the other through the years and I have always found them to be fair though sometimes different depending on the Host. I am going to give this new program a chance by continuing to play as I have. Who knows I may like it better.

Great attitude. Same with me.

[NLH Arizona]

This is a great attitude. I think the major difference is that, with the new tiers clearly outlined, the casino manager won't have any leeway in extending benefits as they see fit. CAS has always been fair to me too, but I have to say that this fiasco of a rollout is ugly.

 

I have been extremely loyal to CAS, for my own reasons. Have never liked that any comps were at the discretion of the specific casino manager, but lived with it. Loyalty on both sides is the main factor here - they expect loyalty from us, while suddenly showing no loyalty in return. Will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

 

For the record PokerDave, your December 2011 cruise wouldn't have counted if it was taken in January, the new qualifying period seems written in stone now - April 1-March 31. I definitely agree with you that something happened behind the scenes causing them to revoke the status of grandfathered players - not a miscalculation as they are saying while back pedaling. Your December sailing is further proof to me that something is amiss at CAS, causing these revocations.

 

Robin

I'm with you Robin, obviously the roll out of the new program didn't go smoothly, but also some will never be happy. Change isn't easy for some people, just look at those complaining about Cagney's new menu before they even try it, but there are changes in our daily life and we have to accept them.

 

On my first NCL cruise, the Casino Manager kept coming over offering me free dinners (which I turned down, because I had already pre-booked all my dinners at the specialty restaurants, until the next to the last day when I only took it because she was so persistent) and the one I accepted was for three people. It was a wonderful perk, but I wasn't expecting anything from them. But I never understood why the Casino Manager didn't offer the same to some that would play slots around me every day, thus I would rather have the numbers predict what I get, because that is fair to everyone one.

 

Nancy

[tel2]

Fishbait -- you should definitely not throw out your TR free cruises. I get both. Three out of the last five cruises I've booked yielded me a better price on upgrade using the TR certificates than was the price quoted for an upgrade on the cas comp. I usually call and get the comped price/ level they are willing to give me. After I get it, I tell them what certificates I have and ask for a price. It has been consistently on east coast sailings a 400-500 better price using tr. in fact, my two next cruises, on breakaway in June and sept. , are both booked using TR certs. And if you and husband both have them, they can be combined to increase to a mini.

[goldmom]

I agree that the roll out of this program was handled poorly. If I hadn't read about it here, I wouldn't even know about it.

 

I'm willing to see how it all actually pans out. I guess the one advantage is that I now know that I'm suppossed to get a free dinner rather than waiting to see if one is offered.

 

Also, as we now keep the same tier status for a year I'm thinking that I can now book more than one cruise at a time with CAS. I used to be able to do that, then they changed things and wouldn't give me a price until my first cruise was done and they could rate my play from that cruise (hope that makes sense). Hopefully now I'll be able to book more than one cruise at a time. PS- I could book the 2nd cruise, they just couldn't tell me what they'd be able to offer me and I didn't want to book something without knowing what it would cost.

 

And BTW, when I asked in the Casino for a second card they told me sorry DH wasn't allowed to play on my account, he had to play his own card. So I was also told this. Of course I only asked the one time, so who knows if the answer would have been different depending who I asked. LOL!

[goldmom]

I have 14,800 points and DH had around 4,000 points, so I'm Hot and he's Lucky. We both missed the next level by not too much.

 

With this new system I doubt I would make the Golden level in a year so once I make the Hot level there's no real incentive to gamble (except that I love my slots!), so this new system may backfire on them. Although I guess that your points within a tier will affect what kind of comped cabin is offered. At least I'm guessing it will as the CAS formula for what they offer is always a mystery!

[Twelvevman]

For me it's the waiving of the 3% fee. That benefit alone could save me $300 per sailing. And it's not the money really, it's more the way I am irked paying that fee on top of the cash they are taking anyway lol.

 

Robin

 

Why not set up a credit line with the casino before the cruise so you can access cash without a fee?

[texast518]

For me it's the waiving of the 3% fee. That benefit alone could save me $300 per sailing. And it's not the money really, it's more the way I am irked paying that fee on top of the cash they are taking anyway lol.

 

Robin

 

You can get a-line-of-credit online application 2 months before u cruise, then you sign a MARKER, no fee. $3000 min on LOC, you can settle on sign & sail, pay cash, or, I think write a check on the account u gave them.

[Love my butler]

The 'free' stuff isn't actually free. Heavy gamblers pay lots for the 'free' stuff. If you are so upset about not getting free stuff, take a 15 minute break from gambling and use that money to buy your 'free' stuff. However, please don't stop losing big in the casino, you are lowering my overall cruise price.

[Fishbait17]

You can get a-line-of-credit online application 2 months before u cruise, then you sign a MARKER, no fee. $3000 min on LOC, you can settle on sign & sail, pay cash, or, I think write a check on the account u gave them.

 

This is an interesting idea, hasn't known I could settle the marker with sign & sail account. I prefer to pay for my gambling with a credit card (SPG Amex), hence usually charging it to my account - helps me keep track, hate carrying cash (in all facets of life), plus the bonus points are great (my own "comp" program lol). Most of the time, I book with less than two months notice, so will have to see how that works. Always thought the Line of Credit would tie up my bank account, which is heavy in cash-in and out. I will pursue this further, thanks!

 

Robin

[spidybabe]

Have been living for years with Harrah's TR program and all the changes they have. BUT you are always made aware of the changes. What I find unfair about the new CAS changes is that nobody was made aware of it, until after the fact. I wonder how many people may have changed their travel plans (some just by days) if they knew that their casino play would not count towards tier level? I understand them instituting a plan and policy, what I dislike is being informed after the fact, and not grandfathering in loyal customers who were not aware changes were going to happen. We have decided not to call CAS to check our tier, we do not want to get upset. We are going on our third "free" Harrah's cruise(and that's enough of a perk), and plan on enjoying every moment.

[luvcruzing]

Got back yesterday from a comped cruise on the Dawn. Had a "HOT" slot card waiting for me in the cabin and had to pick up the drink card from the casino manager's desk. There were LOTS (maybe hundreds) of CAS players on board, mostly Lucky with drink cards attached. I'm assuming these were TR-comped players with no CAS history. I received a comped dinner for two at LeBistro (Cagney's was not included in the choices).

 

Before this cruise, I had three cruises booked through CAS/TR - this one in April, one in November, and another one in April, 2014.

 

On the issue of linking players' cards, I was always told (and read in several articles) that the casino would (not Could), but would deny a hand-paid win to anyone using someone else's slot card.

 

On another note, there were only six Super Star Poker machines available. These are the machines that have all the different multi-hand video poker games, and the only ones that have four-card video keno games (my game of choice). These machines were very popular (mostly for the multi-hand poker) and sometimes very difficult to get on. One would think that if certain machines are very popular, they would make sure there were more of them. Also, on my last cruise, I was able to bet more than one credit per card, but was only allowed to bet one per card on this trip. Makes it tough to accumulate points at $1 per game on a video poker machine. I still ended up with about 5,400 points.

[NLH Arizona]

Got back yesterday from a comped cruise on the Dawn. Had a "HOT" slot card waiting for me in the cabin and had to pick up the drink card from the casino manager's desk. There were LOTS (maybe hundreds) of CAS players on board, mostly Lucky with drink cards attached. I'm assuming these were TR-comped players with no CAS history. I received a comped dinner for two at LeBistro (Cagney's was not included in the choices).

 

Thanks for the info. One question, is Cagney's the only restaurant that was not included in the choices for the comped dinner?

 

Thanks,

Nancy

[cruise4kicks]

Thanks for the info. One question, is Cagney's the only restaurant that was not included in the choices for the comped dinner?

 

Thanks,

Nancy

The cert I received did not exclude any restaurants.

[luvcruzing]

Christina (the casino manager) told me that I was offered a comped dinner for two at any cover-charge restaurant except Cagney's ($30). The others are all below $25. i didn't ask if it was the only one not included.

[cruise4kicks]

Christina (the casino manager) told me that I was offered a comped dinner for two at any cover-charge restaurant except Cagney's ($30). The others are all below $25. i didn't ask if it was the only one not included.

That's right, I'm sure. When we were on the Gem last week the new menu and surcharge had not yet been introduced at Cagney's.

[spidybabe]

We are just back off the Breakaway with the new program in effect. Only Lucky but upgraded to Hot... got all the same perks as always.. faster embarkment dinner wine drinks $$ off at end of trip... but they semed to be much easier to obtain (and more of them) when we were on the Gem. Casino staff on the Breakaway not the greatest (only the staff we knew from the Gem were personable and intelligent) Casino manager could not do simple math, and we had to chase staff down for everything, including drinks (be prepared to wait 20-30minutes for a drink-service even slow at bar). New program not explanined well... keep taking points off from our other sailings (they would daily change our accumulated points from other trip- and had to keep emailing to correct it)--then we had to fight to get them reinstated. New program ok only our status ends... it should end after no sailing for 12-18 months.. not everybody sails within THEIR timeframe. You can achieve level...but doesn't mean it will be good by the time of your next cruise... so what incentive is there to earn higher levels?? Not a $20- dinner.....

PS-ship only OK but could of been great many new fantastic things,,,but all venues to small-and the pool is a joke- so very very tiny

Safe sailing

[SuiteCruiser]

I just wanted to add one thing, I know it's an older thread, but with the new program if you could use the same card and combine everything, wouldn't that mean your wife would have no drink card at all? My understanding is that you only get one if you've earned it in the rankings, so isn't it better to have two Hots than just one Golden? I suppose if your wife doesn't drink it wouldn't matter, but to me, that one perk is the biggest of all. I get a dinner for being platinum and may book another one or two, but do most of my drinking in the casino.

[hpecorari]

We are just back off the Breakaway with the new program in effect. Only Lucky but upgraded to Hot... got all the same perks as always.. faster embarkment dinner wine drinks $$ off at end of trip... but they semed to be much easier to obtain (and more of them) when we were on the Gem. Casino staff on the Breakaway not the greatest (only the staff we knew from the Gem were personable and intelligent) Casino manager could not do simple math, and we had to chase staff down for everything, including drinks (be prepared to wait 20-30minutes for a drink-service even slow at bar). New program not explanined well... keep taking points off from our other sailings (they would daily change our accumulated points from other trip- and had to keep emailing to correct it)--then we had to fight to get them reinstated. New program ok only our status ends... it should end after no sailing for 12-18 months.. not everybody sails within THEIR timeframe. You can achieve level...but doesn't mean it will be good by the time of your next cruise... so what incentive is there to earn higher levels?? Not a $20- dinner.....

PS-ship only OK but could of been great many new fantastic things,,,but all venues to small-and the pool is a joke- so very very tiny

Safe sailing

 

This is the 3rd time I've read this as you've put it under 3 different topics. It sounds like your upset or bitter but I don't know if I'm reading it wrong or just can't figure out why.

 

I never had to wait 20 - 30 min. for a drink, btw. Also, due to your play, are you getting free or discounted cruises from CAS? That in and of itself is an incentive. If you want to play in the Casino, play. If you play, you 'get something' for doing so......no matter what you get you're still getting something. If you don't want to play....don't play. Most people play simply because they love the Casino and the perks they get is the frosting on the cake. NCL's CAS is much better than Princess or RCL so I'll take what they give since I'm going to play anyway......and say, "thank you"

[Always Cruising]

I have to agree with some of Spidybabe's comments. I was on the Dawn in March and loved the casino, perks and staff - they couldn't do enough for us. The Breakaway Inaugural (I know it is new and has "kinks" to work out, but...) disappointed me. The casino staff did their jobs, but there wasn't the camaraderie I found on the Dawn. I was given nothing from the casino, even though I made the Hot level during the Breakaway cruise. No cash off at end of cruise (I made 3750 on Dawn and had $350 taken off my bill) - on Breakaway, I accrued 3780 more points, and had nothing taken off. Dawn gave us a complimentary dinner for my entire group - including wine and drinks - at Cagney's - and treats in the room every day. Breakaway....nothing.

There is also an issue w/ my Breakaway points not having been added to my total yet - I changed a Breakaway Aug cruise to the Gem (and I have a Sept Gem booked also) because I feel the smaller ship gives a more personal level of service. CAS keeps telling me I am only at the Lucky level....but after 45 min of searching, they seem to find the Breakaway points, but can't add them to my Dawn accrual - and I'm only Lucky....Go figure.

It will be interesting to compare Gem when I sail...but I'm looking forward to a Dawn type experience.

Does anyone else experience the loooong waits on hold to reach CAS? Also, when a question is asked of the rep finally reached.....more minutes on hold for each question? And a different answer from each agent?