Stupid Stupid Jones Act !!!!!!!!

[kruisey]

I feel it should be updated.

Princess has foreign registerd ships.

If one sails from Alaska USA ,to Vancouver Canada, continues to LA Hawaii to LA....all on the same ship it is a no no.....Canada is not a distant port...............this will affect the USA shipping industry. :confused:

Do you all agree with the Jones Act......If you don't what as individuals would you do to change this?

Myself I cannot write to President Bush because I'm a dual CAN/UK Citizen.

Would have loved this cruise and spent money in Alaska,LA and Hawaii USA giving to the USA economy. :mad:

[Colo Cruiser]

It is a very archaic law but at the time it was supposed to help. Now it is outdated. If NCL can get an exemption then everyone should. I dont like it at all.

[critterchick]

Why can't you write to President Bush? Citizenship isn't required to post a letter to him. And you're a US citizen anyway, dual or otherwise!

 

We also think the Passenger Services Act is obsolete. There are all of 2 US-Flagged vessels sailing out there in the cruise ship world, and the competitive factors that led to the Act's passage are long gone. We've seen a number of cruises that we would love to take (Diamond LA-Vancouver, then Vancouver to Seattle) that we couldn't. Phooey!:mad:

[Opinions]

Stop blaming Jones!..The Jones Act applies only to cargo ships...The Passenger Services Act is the law for cruise ships.

[Colo Cruiser]

Wow an innocent mistake. MR OPINION :D

[Opinions]

Wow an innocent mistake. MR OPINION :D

 

Thank you.

[WCAB]

What impact does this have on the cruise industry. I now it impacts whether or not the cruise line can open up the casino but what other areas are impacted?

 

Carol

[Druke I]

Sen Diane Feinstein (D-CA) sometime ago came out in favor of modifying the Passenger Services Act, as she felt it would help California'a economy if more ships called in CA., particularly San Francisco.

 

Unfortunately, there has been no significant movement, and it was not her highest priority.

 

Although technically not correct, the terms Passenger Services Act and Jones Act are often used interchangeably.

[kruisey]

Stop blaming Jones!..The Jones Act applies only to cargo ships...The Passenger Services Act is the law for cruise ships.

Well Princess must be carrying cargo?Does that mean us?Or the loaded produce in the hold? :confused:

Princess quotes the 'Jones Act' as not allowing me to take this route??????

[Druke I]

Some people, to avoid the PSA, have done cross-pier transfers at Vancouver, sometimes interline, and sometimes intraline, and continue into Alaska.

[patlanta]

Here are a couple of ways I remembering reading on the boards that the PSA impacts the cruise industry:

 

1. Not any port in a storm: The Zenith was running up and down the coast of South Carolina/Georgia in a storm and would not come into Savannah Georgia's port. The cost, as I recall, would have been $260 per passenger. The City of Savannah was not pleased with the PSA at the time because they could have profited from the business. Also, the passengers could have avoided being tossed around at sea too.

 

2. You can't just disembark at any port on your cruise itinerary, even if your dead. If you do, even for an emergency, you will be assessed a charge--unless, out of kindness, the cruiseline absorbs the cost.

[Pam in CA]

If, for instance, you're on the LA > Hawaii > LA cruise, you cannot disembark in Hawaii and fly home or else you'll be assessed the charge. We were warned a number of times (informationally, not threateningly) about being careful and in particular, making sure you didn't miss the ship back to LA.

[kruisey]

Well Princess must be carrying cargo?Does that mean us?Or the loaded produce in the hold? :confused:

Princess quotes the 'Jones Act' as not allowing me to take this route??????

Speaking to Princess again.These rulings are solely because the ships are foreign registered.If had been USA registered would have been a different kettle of fish.

Have been told by my close friend who was a Managing Director of a shipping Company before he retired, that certain countries have like USA, Canada and UK have much tighter rulings (If one can use that word) on ships registered and insured in their countries,possibly alot more expensive to register with them as well.

I better say no more :cool:

[cruisnfool]

Can't sail from an American port to American port without stopping at a foreign port.....this is why NCL was going to Kiribati and now got Bush to re flag American so they don't have to do that.....that being said how does Princess get away with doing the r/t from LA that doesn't stop anywhere but Hawaii?

 

When we sailed on Infinity to Hawaii we had to get off in Ensenada and bus back to San Diego to satisfy this act and now I see the Infinity is doing r/t from San Diego with a 4 hr stop in Ensenada....why couldn't we have done that?

[SharkieRools]

that being said how does Princess get away with doing the r/t from LA that doesn't stop anywhere but Hawaii?

The ship makes a 1 hour "Service Stop" in Ensenada. The ship doesn't even dock, but rather sends a tender out to meet with the local authorities and exchange paperwork. On roundtrip cruises you can stop at any foreign port to satisfy the PSA. For cruises that begin and end in different US ports you need to stop at a "distant" foreign port - for the most part any foreign port NOT in Mexico, Canada, Bermuda, or most Caribbean ports (with the exception of Aruba, Curacao and a few others.)

[donna5]

Well Princess must be carrying cargo?Does that mean us?Or the loaded produce in the hold? :confused:

Princess quotes the 'Jones Act' as not allowing me to take this route??????

 

 

Obviously you have not listened to the cruise director when they are doing the talk on disembarkation, tipping, etc. They inform you that you come on as passengers and leave as cargo(from all the food.) :D

[calikak]

The Jones Act and the PSA are related laws. The Jones Act covers cargo, and the PSA covers passengers. However, many folks (including the phone reps at Princess) talk about the Jones Act when in fact they mean the PSA. It's an archaic law that was designed to protect US shipbuilders by limiting the coastal trade to US ships, but that hasn't worked out in practice. Instead, cruise lines come up with sometimes strange itineraries to get around the law.

 

Kruisey, what you can also do (besides writing to any member of Congress) is to write to the association of cruise lines (can't think of the acronym right now) and tell them that you and many other cruise passengers would like to see the PSA repealed. Congress hasn't done anything to repeal the PSA, and it's probably because there's no pressure from the industry. The association has chosen not to take a stance on the repeal of the PSA, but if they did, their money can much more easily lobby Congress than us average folks.

[kruisey]

They probably not take any notice of me if I do contact the PSA .I will e-mail them if they show an e-mail address....but those interested must e-mail them as well.More interest is taken on numbers than on one person alone.

So come on guys and gals lets all fill their e-mail box up :)

 

Yes Donna5 I probably am cargo by the last day of my cruise :D

[Pam in CA]

Can't sail from an American port to American port without stopping at a foreign port.....this is why NCL was going to Kiribati and now got Bush to re flag American so they don't have to do that.

Bush had nothing to do with NCL being able to reflag the NCL ships. Nice try. :) If a ship is built in the U.S., it is not subject to the PSA. The NCL ships that have been flagged as American had their hulls laid on U.S. soil (I believe in Alabama or Mississippi) for an American company that later went bankrupt. There were two of them and they sat partially built for years, slowly turning into rust buckets and being maintained by U.S. tax dollars. NCL bought them, had them towed to Europe for completion. The deal was made between NCL and Congress, at the urging of Senator Inoyue of Hawaii, that because the ships were originally built in the U.S., they would be deployed to Hawaii and sail RT from Hawaii with an all-U.S. crew. NCL had a LOT of problems with the U.S. crew to start with because they had different expectations, etc. Also, the crew aboard the U.S.-flagged ships are paid on a different scale than non-U.S.-flagged ships. I forget the details but NCL saw an opportunity and took it.

[cruisnfool]

Thanks Pam...I thought I had read that originally it took some action on Bush's part to make it happen for NCL.

I wish we could have just stopped for an hour in Ensenada. It was really a downer to an otherwise wonderfull trip.

 

I read some really funny stories about the first months in Hawaii like the crew were "burnt out" after a few trips. The European crew wouldn't even know what "burn't out meant.

I also read they had to hire daily crew on the differant Hawaian islands to come on the ship while they were in pport to help with the crew shortage....funny stuff

[greatuncle]

The ship makes a 1 hour "Service Stop" in Ensenada. The ship doesn't even dock, but rather sends a tender out to meet with the local authorities and exchange paperwork. On roundtrip cruises you can stop at any foreign port to satisfy the PSA. For cruises that begin and end in different US ports you need to stop at a "distant" foreign port - for the most part any foreign port NOT in Mexico, Canada, Bermuda, or most Caribbean ports (with the exception of Aruba, Curacao and a few others.)

 

Actually, Island Princess now makes a 4 hour stop in Enesenada at the new Cruise Terminal. YOu can get off and walk into town or take a bus for a few $. Ensenada is investing $millions and they are making the port area very attractive. We enjoyed our short stay there in April.

 

Peter

[LBL]

What we forget is that the Passenger Act also applies to airlines. You cannot board a foriegn carrier in one US city and disembark in another US city.

 

Carole

[kruisey]

So I have tried.

Does every country have similar rulings?

I know in Canada it is the same ruling regarding Airlines.

May I point out if I had boarded the Island Princess in Vancouver gone up to Alaska stayed on the ship back to Vancouver,stayed on the ship to LA ,Hawaii and back to LA ,it would have been allowed.

For the very fact of boarding in Alaska it was a no no. :confused:

[britsbest]

Yes some thing called "CABOTAGE" applies in UK. You can not fly "internally" on a foreign airline.

[Cruisin' Chick]

"for the most part any foreign port NOT in Mexico, Canada, Bermuda, or most Caribbean ports (with the exception of Aruba, Curacao and a few others.)"

 

I guess Ensenada -- "for the most part" in Mexico -- must have some special deal, read $$$$, that makes them exempt. It would be nice if the cruiselines get together and put some $$$ behind a lobbyist to weaken the Jones/PSA acts to give them more flexibility in offering different routes for us. Unless they stand to gain financially too from the current laws as is.:confused: