LOST LUGGAGE ** Please help!!!**

[Ma Bell]

Do you think it's a person's responsibility to read and abide by contracts? I find it extremely sad that people always have to find someone to blame for everything that happens. With this philosophy no one should ever buy insurance for anything because if something unforeseen happens we'll just expect to be taken care of anyway. As much as I feel for Mel for the loss of her things, if she had insured herself we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

Unfortunately sometimes bad things happen to good people but we can't ethically expect to always be made whole when there is no negligence involved. There is no way I could think that it is absolutely the cruise line's fault that bags went missing in the terminal. I would expect them to search for them diligently, which it seems they did. I really don't know what else they could do.

 

It would be nice for Mel if they decide to do something more, but honestly, I don't think it would be a very wise thing for them to do.

[Mel&Ken]

As much as I feel for Mel for the loss of her things, if she had insured herself we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

It would be nice for Mel if they decide to do something more, but honestly, I don't think it would be a very wise thing for them to do.

 

If I had insurance I would absolutely still be having this discussion - just likely not with you. I have said before it's not all about the money. I had a 45 minute conversation with someone in the executive office of Celebrity Friday night and about two minutes of it was about money.

 

As for what is wise or not for Celebrity - I trust the executives at Celebrity to make that call.

[cle-guy]

So this boils down to X has a published written policy (that was acknowledged pre-sail by the consumer - wether or not the consumer ACTUALLY read and understood it is another question) and is sticking to it and people aren't happy.

 

Should we also have X stop other policies that make MY personal experience negative.

 

If I am a smoker, should they waive the no smoking on verandas because, come on, really, it's outside.

 

Should they waive the BLU access Policy for Aqua and Suite guests only if a Aqua class person wants to bring their mom and dad who didn't book in Aqua even though all the seats are filled by those who did pay for Aqua?

 

Should the policy of holding passengers from the staterooms until they are all ready be waived since I want to get in my room now and I know Mine is clean and ready?

 

Should the policy of requiring guests to read and acknowledge and agree to the cruise contract be waived because even though a covered and described incident occurred, those parts of the contract aren't convenient to my circumstance?

 

If they waive those parts of the contract, should they then waive other parts of it like where they agree to protect and honor your privacy and private information and now publish your name and complaints in local newspapers with your date of birth and address and phone number or put you on a cruise line blacklist (yes I agree far-reaching, but still, if you void parts of a contract, shouldn't the others also become void?

 

PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. Buy travel insurance, or 'self-insure' and not pay for insurance and instead cover any losses out-of-pocket with savings from not paying for traditional insurance.

 

For me, not paying cruise insurance ever I have saved several thousand dollars to date so I know I have that savings available for whenever the inevitable occurs. My 'self-insurance' policy.

[Deb0702]

If I had insurance I would absolutely still be having this discussion - just likely not with you. I have said before it's not all about the money. I had a 45 minute conversation with someone in the executive office of Celebrity Friday night and about two minutes of it was about money.

 

As for what is wise or not for Celebrity - I trust the executives at Celebrity to make that call.

 

I'm really very pleased that someone called and talked to you. That means a lot. No matter what happens from this point it has to be satisfying just to know that you've been heard out, especially regarding the customer service shortcomings. Best wishes!

[gabbyisadog]

So this boils down to X has a published written policy (that was acknowledged pre-sail by the consumer - wether or not the consumer ACTUALLY read and understood it is another question) and is sticking to it and people aren't happy.

 

Should we also have X stop other policies that make MY personal experience negative.

 

If I am a smoker, should they waive the no smoking on verandas because, come on, really, it's outside.

 

Should they waive the BLU access Policy for Aqua and Suite guests only if a Aqua class person wants to bring their mom and dad who didn't book in Aqua even though all the seats are filled by those who did pay for Aqua?

 

Should the policy of holding passengers from the staterooms until they are all ready be waived since I want to get in my room now and I know Mine is clean and ready?

 

Should the policy of requiring guests to read and acknowledge and agree to the cruise contract be waived because even though a covered and described incident occurred, those parts of the contract aren't convenient to my circumstance?

 

If they waive those parts of the contract, should they then waive other parts of it like where they agree to protect and honor your privacy and private information and now publish your name and complaints in local newspapers with your date of birth and address and phone number or put you on a cruise line blacklist (yes I agree far-reaching, but still, if you void parts of a contract, shouldn't the others also become void?

 

PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. Buy travel insurance, or 'self-insure' and not pay for insurance and instead cover any losses out-of-pocket with savings from not paying for traditional insurance.

 

For me, not paying cruise insurance ever I have saved several thousand dollars to date so I know I have that savings available for whenever the inevitable occurs. My 'self-insurance' policy.

 

 

I agree. If I lost my luggage, I will be mad as hell. I would ask for a business class ticket home and a free cruise to sooth my frayed nerves. Never hurts to ask but would I expect it? No. Would I feel entitled to it ? No. We also have saved thousands by not buying insurance. Some day we will miss a plane, get sick and cancel a cruise or loose a bag. We will just have to admit this is the choice we made and accept the consequence.

[Ma Bell]

Yes precisely. That is exactly what I'm saying. It is the cruise lines responsibility to deliver the luggage back to the passenger and they failed. They are responsible for that failure. The same hold true for the airlines doesn't it? If your luggage is stolen off off the carousel the passenger doesn't make their claim against the airport. It's the airline that is ultimately responsible and that is where you make your claim. They received your checked luggage and it is their responsibility to deliver it back to you. The airline can take it up with the airport security and I'm sure they will, but that is not your problem.

 

Do you suppose that cruise lines lose passengers' luggage so frequently that it would become a major burden if they increased their liability limits to a more fair and reasonable level, say on par with the airlines? I wonder...

 

Yes, you make your claim with the airlines just as you do with the cruise line. Their policy is the same as the cruise line and you can be sure that if you have more in your suitcase than what the airline policy will reimburse, they won't be giving you any more than that. They also provide the same ability to pay for more insurance if you wish.

[billie5]

The ticket contract does say they have NO liability at all unless there has been negligence on their part. So I think they have admitted responsibility for the loss.

 

If I had insurance I would absolutely still be having this discussion - just likely not with you. I have said before it's not all about the money.

 

I have sometimes wondered why so much (seems like 99%) of legal advice you read on discussion forums, well, discussion forums not intended for lawyers obviously, is so extremely off base. In my opinion, the failure to realize the role of case law, rather than the wording of statutes, ranks as reason number one. But number two is the tendency to apply common usage to words which have rather precise legal meaning, and not whatever a layman might think they "should" mean. Actually, in this case common sense alone might keep one from misreading the term negligence too much; does anyone on this board really believe the cruise line might have inadvertently "admitted something" in their contract?

 

Mel, I hope I made clear my view that your first few posts had absolutely nothing to do with you personally benefiting from your dispute with X, but were intended to alert and inform the cruising community of the risks the low contract limit posed on luggage losses. I am sure most of the readers have benefited greatly from you efforts. And sympathize with the way you were treated verbally.

 

On the other hand, some of your subsequent posts obviously appeared to many readers to be implying a great deal more than what was in your early posts. I am sure no one wants to read a rehash of these issues, but I do believe that, had you stuck to informing CCers of the low limits and to a campaign to convince X (or any of the other mainstream cruise lines) to voluntarily contract for a higher limit, there would have been a much shorter thread. Not that some would not point out that a higher limit, by requiring SLIGHTLY higher ticket price, would amount to enforced insurance for everyone. But I think that would at most have let to a short and civil discussion.

[Mel&Ken]

I have sometimes wondered why so much (seems like 99%) of legal advice you read on discussion forums, well, discussion forums not intended for lawyers obviously, is so extremely off base. In my opinion, the failure to realize the role of case law, rather than the wording of statutes, ranks as reason number one. But number two is the tendency to apply common usage to words which have rather precise legal meaning, and not whatever a layman might think they "should" mean. Actually, in this case common sense alone might keep one from misreading the term negligence too much; does anyone on this board really believe the cruise line might have inadvertently "admitted something" in their contract?

 

Mel, I hope I made clear my view that your first few posts had absolutely nothing to do with you personally benefiting from your dispute with X, but were intended to alert and inform the cruising community of the risks the low contract limit posed on luggage losses. I am sure most of the readers have benefited greatly from you efforts. And sympathize with the way you were treated verbally.

 

On the other hand, some of your subsequent posts obviously appeared to many readers to be implying a great deal more than what was in your early posts. I am sure no one wants to read a rehash of these issues, but I do believe that, had you stuck to informing CCers of the low limits and to a campaign to convince X (or any of the other mainstream cruise lines) to voluntarily contract for a higher limit, there would have been a much shorter thread. Not that some would not point out that a higher limit, by requiring SLIGHTLY higher ticket price, would amount to enforced insurance for everyone. But I think that would at most have let to a short and civil discussion.

 

You give me too much credit. This thread was never about informing or alerting anyone. My first few posts were actually me asking for help. I was sitting in an apartment in Rome with a generic piece of paper saying our lugagge was lost. I had no local numbers to call, I was not told that I still had to call and start a claim in order for them to even look for it and I was reaching out looking for help from people who have dealt with Celebrity.

 

I was then asked to keep people posted. So after every phone call made or received I have come back to this thread and posted an update of what was going on. All along I included my person opinions and emotions. That seemed to be going along well until I posted that I had emailed Mr.Bayley's office and then it got crazy.

 

Instead of being a thread about MY lost luggage and me posting updates as the process moves along - it became a war of words on fairness, deservedness, entitilement, fault, blame, irresponsibilty....the list goes on and on. I let myself get sucked into it for a few days which I regret as I let my emotions get the better of me. The fact is I am posting updates and some people disagree with how I am handling it. That is the world we live in. I'm okay wrapping this thread up and acknowledging we'll just never agree on this - can you?

[chamima]

Please keep posting.

Some of us hope - every time we see a post by you - that they have miraculously found your luggage.

Mine was once "lost" on a flight for 3 months before they suddenly found it. I had changed planes in France and from the tags I think it sat in a corner in Charles DeGaulle airport for the whole 3 months and only my persistent phone calls made anyone look.

So I haven't given up on yours yet.

[Mel&Ken]

I'm really very pleased that someone called and talked to you. That means a lot. No matter what happens from this point it has to be satisfying just to know that you've been heard out, especially regarding the customer service shortcomings. Best wishes!

 

Thanks Dorothy - yes it was a very productive phone call. I will refer to the woman I spoke with as "Ms.L".

 

I was finally able to articulate step by step what happened and we even talked through scenarios around certain things and discussed what could have helped or would have made things better at the time.

 

For suggestion, from the time we first realized our bags weren't in the pick up zone to the time we walked to our car and drove away, we dealt with 5 different people. The same thing happened over and over, once they realized they really coudn't help us they would quietly wander off and slip out of sight. Ms.L noted that is not the desired client service and that they would expect contact #1 to take accountability and stay with us through the process. She asked if this had been done would I still have felt the need to get back on the ship and I advised I would not have. My feeling at that point was that the excellent service I received on board was now gone and I wasn't getting an help from the people in the pick up area.

 

Another example - a procedure sheet or next steps to give people who do have lost items. I shared with Ms.L the feeling of driving away and literally having no idea what to do. We had no local numbers to call, we had no idea how the process would work, we didn't know we still had to call Celebrity and file a claim - we thought the paper we just filled out was a claim. This was all information we were lacking and it made the situation worse for us. Ms.L liked the idea of putting local numbers on the lost bag report. She advised that this is the precise reason they started putting them on cruise docs. Sadly as the cruise was over we didn't have them with us - they were in the suitcase. I knew (thought) I had no need for them disembarking and taking a transer to Rome.

 

She agreed that when I requested several times to speak to a manager I should have been transfered. She said she could sense from my story that I was very frustrated by that. She asked if being transfered would have helped and I said it absolutely would have.

 

There was a big disconnect between cruise service and post cruise service and frankly post cruise is a critical time as this is when people start planning their next vacation. The ideal situation is they are so thrilled with Celebrity or even so thrilled with how Celebrity handled a problem that they want to give them their business. If this had started out with how helpful Celebrity was being after our bags were lost instead of how difficult it was to deal with them - who knows how far this would have went.

 

All I know is that Ms.L was great. She was receptive and appreciative to get honest feedback. And being from customer service myself I could be specific and tie it back to what their brand is and what they want for their clients. I think she appreciated that I wan't rambling about nit picky stuff.

 

I hung up and felt great - like this was the Celebrity I fell in love with last year!

 

That's it for now.....she had a few new ideas on who to call for my luggage. My fingers are still crossed.

[Mel&Ken]

Please keep posting.

Some of us hope - every time we see a post by you - that they have miraculously found your luggage.

Mine was once "lost" on a flight for 3 months before they suddenly found it. I had changed planes in France and from the tags I think it sat in a corner in Charles DeGaulle airport for the whole 3 months and only my persistent phone calls made anyone look.

So I haven't given up on yours yet.

 

Thank you! I never thought posts about lost luggage would make me feel better but they do! I think the longest was one year. So everyday as I pull in my driveway I look for bags on my front porch. Maybe one day! ;)

[luvs2fly]

I've gone to the extremes of FedXing my luggage to hotels before cruise's and other vacations. Before reading this thread I've never thought that it would or could be a problem with a cruise line.

The biggest problem I have with this thread is X asking for receipts for items in lost luggage. If they are going to stick to the $300.00 limit why ask? They should've just sent a check with a letter of apology.

Was it really necessary for x to waste this couples time? The luggage getting lost sucks! But the extra amount of time this couple wasted on stupid receipts and phone calls is annoying.

[travellover39]

Thank you! I never thought posts about lost luggage would make me feel better but they do! I think the longest was one year. So everyday as I pull in my driveway I look for bags on my front porch. Maybe one day! ;)

 

I'm so happy Ms L and you had a productive conversation. That's a good first step. I'm in disbelieve how mean and persistant some of the posts were to your situation:( Who really cares what they think. You are right because it's your opinion.:D and your situation!

 

Please come back and let us know if your luggage is returned:)

Edited December 8, 2013 by travellover39

[groinky]

Please keep posting.

Some of us hope - every time we see a post by you - that they have miraculously found your luggage.

Mine was once "lost" on a flight for 3 months before they suddenly found it. I had changed planes in France and from the tags I think it sat in a corner in Charles DeGaulle airport for the whole 3 months and only my persistent phone calls made anyone look.

So I haven't given up on yours yet.

 

Please keep posting as I for one want to see a post some day saying your luggage was found.

Good luck,

Nancy

[Grumpy100]

I will always use the self disembarkation as one less reason to lose my luggage. Even on 12 day European cruises. I don't overpack and am able to handle my luggage. Just turned 58 so have a few more cruises on my bucket list so the less hassle the better happy cruising to everyone.

[middlehaitch]

Mel&Ken

Thank you so much for not giving up on this thread.

I think, despite the odd diversion, you have been clear, concise and firmly polite throughout.

I am glad you were able to have an intelligent discussion with Miss L about Celebrity's post cruise service and resolve some issues.

As I have understood it, this has never been about payment or insurance; but about customer service, and it is a shame that it has taken so much and so long for someone within the Celebrity organizaition to respond.

Thank you for the synopsis of your conversation with Miss L, it was very interesting and something you had no need to do.

Please, do keep us posted.

Cheers, h.

[johhnnyt]

I think you have handled yourself far better than most of on here in the same scenario, and I applaud you! I'm truly hopeful Celebrity goes above their legal obligation and makes you 'whole' again (replaces the value of the items they lost). It isn't legally required, but it would be the right thing to do

 

For those interested in their rights in this situation, under various legal doctrines, common carriers, which include cruiselines, who take possession of passengers luggage, become, in effect insurers in the sense that if it is not delivered over to the passenger on request and cannot be accounted for the carrier is automatically liable. Under this principle of law, the carrier is a type of bailee and its negligence is presumed, absent proof on its part that some Act of God or enemy attack made it impossible to return the luggage. There are quite a few cases going back to the 1800s directly on point.

 

Sometimes cruiselines will use the logic that they could only be held liable if they were negligent and, in essence, was the passengers burden to show it was negligence. That, in fact, turns the law on its head. Since they were the last to have exclusive possession of the bag - they picked it up outside the stateroom the night before you disembarked - they were required to return it to me the next day and, as noted above the burden was on them to show the bag was not turned over for one of the two reasons stated above. Though the cruise ticket contains a clause which provides that they will be liable for lost luggage only if it is negligent, courts will not recognize or enforce such a clause. They deem such clauses to violate public policy and longstanding law applicable to common carriers.

 

Cruiselines are permitted to limit their liability as Celebrity does in its contracts, and require an additional payment from the passenger to increase its liability limit.

 

Just be glad it's not Carnival, interesting things in their contract as well

 

After Concordia crashed many aspects of their (Carnival’s and Costa’s) contract came to light. If you get hurt, don’t blame them. This is called an “assumption of risk.” For example, in one spot the Carnival contract says, “The Guest admits a full understanding of the character of the Vessel and assumes all risks incident to travel and transportation and handling of Guests and cargo.” In a separate paragraph it indicates, “Guests assume responsibility for their own safety and Carnival cannot guarantee Guest’s safety at any time.” Likewise, the Costa contract says, “the Passenger assumes responsibility for his or her own safety and the Carrier cannot guarantee the Passenger’s safety while on or off the Vessel.” Translation: Whatever happens isn’t the cruise company’s fault.

Have fun trying to collect for property damage. If you plan to bring certain valuables on board, like jewelry, money or cameras, many contracts say you must let the cruise line know ahead of time in writing, and agree not to pack those items in your luggage. The Carnival contract says luggage “means only trunks, valises, satchels, bags, hangers and bundles with their contents consisting of only such wearing apparel, toilet articles and similar personal effects as are necessary and appropriate for the purpose of the journey.”

In addition, the contract makes every attempt to limit the situations in which Carnival is responsible for lost luggage. For example, it excludes liability for “any loss or damage of baggage while not in the actual possession, custody and control of Carnival. . .or. . .any loss or damage while in the custody and control of stevedores.” That leaves room for arguments about whether belongings stolen from your stateroom are in Carnival’s “possession, custody and control,” for instance.

And just in case Carnival could possibly be liable, the contract says, “It is stipulated and agreed that the aggregate value of Guest’s property does not exceed $50 per guest or bag with a maximum value of $100 per stateroom regardless of the number of occupants or bags.” The limits are higher under the Costa contract — $150 per piece of luggage or $500 per passenger, whichever is less.

Edited December 9, 2013 by johhnnyt

[johhnnyt]

I'm hoping Celebrity is a learning organization and learns from the mistakes made in this lesson.

 

We all know a small percentage of bags will be lost or stolen, but how to deal with them is the key

 

I think had they assigned someone like Ms L from the start, so much of this could have been avoided. Someone to really listen to your case. It really seems like the systematic approach they used needs updating.

 

I think of it in rather simple terms, but I feel it might better been handled like a claim on your homeowners policy. If it were so much aggravation could of been avoided. Once the bag is deemed lost the carrier is liable. (If you have secondary/travelers insurance that’s a slightly different matter, but generally travelers insurance won't process a claim until after the cruise line closes their case, as travelers insurance is usually considered secondary coverage with the cruise lines being the primary).

 

Last year we had some damage to our property from a storm, my insurance company was liable. They assigned an adjuster to the claim, and provided his email address and telephone number, he would be my sole point of contact till the matter was closed. He could tell me what my options were, what liability the insurance would and would not cover and limits.

 

It sounds as if Ms. L already did you right, by listening and learning from the errors they made along the way. I'm glad someone finally did for all of our sakes, as it could as just as easily been any of us.

[DebbieMacG]

Duplicate

Edited December 9, 2013 by DebbieMacG

[travellover39]

I'm hoping Celebrity is a learning organization and learns from the mistakes made in this lesson.

 

We all know a small percentage of bags will be lost or stolen, but how to deal with them is the key

 

I think had they assigned someone like Ms L from the start, so much of this could have been avoided. Someone to really listen to your case. It really seems like the systematic approach they used needs updating.

 

I think of it in rather simple terms, but I feel it might better been handled like a claim on your homeowners policy. If it were so much aggravation could of been avoided. Once the bag is deemed lost the carrier is liable. (If you have secondary/travelers insurance that’s a slightly different matter, but generally travelers insurance won't process a claim until after the cruise line closes their case, as travelers insurance is usually considered secondary coverage with the cruise lines being the primary).

 

Last year we had some damage to our property from a storm, my insurance company was liable. They assigned an adjuster to the claim, and provided his email address and telephone number, he would be my sole point of contact till the matter was closed. He could tell me what my options were, what liability the insurance would and would not cover and limits.

 

It sounds as if Ms. L already did you right, by listening and learning from the errors they made along the way. I'm glad someone finally did for all of our sakes, as it could as just as easily been any of us.

 

Finally someone besides Mel with common sense and the proper way to go about a bad situation. :D

[billie5]

.....Under this principle of law, the carrier is a type of bailee and its negligence is presumed, absent proof on its part that some Act of God or enemy attack made it impossible to return the luggage.....

 

Though the cruise ticket contains a clause which provides that they will be liable for lost luggage only if it is negligent, courts will not recognize or enforce such a clause......

 

Sorry, Johnny, but contractual limited liability for common carriers has been upheld many many times.

 

Mel, I also help you stay on-board and let us know the outcome, even if it is a long time from now.

[poolwife]

After reading most of this thread (all of Mel's comments though), I wanted it moved back to the top hoping she won't forget to get back to us. I certainly hope her luggage still gets found.

 

I think what is really sad is that the luggage didn't make it down to the warehouse from her floor. Definitely makes me always want to take my own luggage down now. Sure sounds like an employee situation to me or why wouldn't it have been in the warehouse!

 

Let's hope Mel has a good outcome to this.

[CallyCruzer]

Melissa - I have been reading your review of your cruise and realized that you also had this post going regarding your luggage. After reading all the posts from everyone I am sitting here shaking my head - people never fail to surprise and shock me. Not sure why - but they don't. As they say - Karma is a B_____, so everyone that is acting like you are asking for too much to have Celebrity to make you whole - well, may they find themselves in your situation one day and see what they think! I do buy cruise insurance every time - I buy in case I have a family emergency and have to cancel or have an accident or illness on my cruise and need to go home. NEVER once did I think of needing it because from the time I am TOLD to put my luggage outside my door until I am allowed to pick up the next morning that my luggage would go missing and Celebrity would DO NOTHING - except possibly give me $300 (which would not cover the cost of my suitcase). I wish you the best and hope you finally get your luggage. For me - I will NEVER again put my suitcase outside my door. So I will be that person lugging my suitcases down the stairs and through the hallways. Oh and by the way - for everyone that is harping on the contract saying they are not liable - have you ever read the back of a ticket that you bought for a concert or sporting event? It states that the venue is not "liable" for you - if anything happens. However, if something does happen, I assure you within 24 - 48 hours you will receive a call or visit from that venue's attorney - ready to make an offer. Putting that language in contracts, tickets, etc is all about CYA. Just as we purchase insurance - don't you think Celebrity has purchased insurance?!?!?! It's times like this they should use it! In that situation they get more business - not lose it!

[Fouremco]

Just as we purchase insurance - don't you think Celebrity has purchased insurance?!?!?! It's times like this they should use it!

You are probably quite right, but I think that you'll find that their insurance coverage is limited to $300 per passenger per occurrence.

[TLC2CAMP]

Any news about the luggage? I keep reading and hoping for a happy ending.